They said when they switched to NGE they erased precu. /shrug
Pesonally I think it was just another lie.
Do you also remember when some of us found the prima guid to SWG NGE on Amazon and how soe lied about it and deleted and locked all the threads asking what was up. Then 2 months after mustifar telling us what they were going to hit us with.
Its good to see people still dont jnow what tehre talking about when it comes to SWG, unless in your world 2-5 days is 2 months.
No he is right. Amazon was offering the starter pack or some crap before the NGE was announced. SOE was like oh it's a mistake, it was deleted and then bam they hit us with the NGE news sometime later.
They said when they switched to NGE they erased precu. /shrug
Pesonally I think it was just another lie.
Do you also remember when some of us found the prima guid to SWG NGE on Amazon and how soe lied about it and deleted and locked all the threads asking what was up. Then 2 months after mustifar telling us what they were going to hit us with.
Its good to see people still dont jnow what tehre talking about when it comes to SWG, unless in your world 2-5 days is 2 months.
No he is right. Amazon was offering the starter pack or some crap before the NGE was announced. SOE was like oh it's a mistake, it was deleted and then bam they hit us with the NGE news sometime later.
Yes not only that but thats what cost tiggs her job, as she stood up for the player base. There was like a prima guide and starter pack, and a lot of us asked tons of questions. Anybody remember how many folks griped about it, and soe finally gave in and gave refunds for mustifar to those who wanted it. However that would cost you your bunker, so i did not ask for a refund.
They said when they switched to NGE they erased precu. /shrug
Pesonally I think it was just another lie.
It's probably a matter of not being able to undo the changes to the database without rolling back to when the moment before they began converting said DB to NGE. If SOE could not rebuild each individual build/version of the client and server software, they're grossly incompetent in version control and data archival.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
the major problem with both versions of SWG was it was broken, NGE had broken quests that said "We are sorry but this quest has not been emplimented yet." Pre NGE the game had tons of them and they didn't even say we are sorry, you just got to a quest and couldn't do it. No options of choosing your rewards, which sucked if you played a non armor race, so you ended up with stuff to just put up in your house. They had a whole broken class, commando, and they bowed to greifers who complained they got owned. I am siting the three bounty hunter story there, anyone unfamiliar with that will never understand why creature handelers were removed. It had the option of being an amazing game but they didn't fix what was broken.
the game was already in serious decline prior to the nge/cu. it just nudged it along a little quicker.
Actually, Jeff Freeman said population was rising during the Combat Upgrade period of time. Not by much, but it was increasing.
If by nudge you mean pushed off a cliff into a bottomless chasm, then yes that is the effect the NGE had on the games population.
Smed was also credited with saying subs increased following the CU. Whether or not the CU was good for the game or not is pretty much irrelevent when faced with the NGE. The CU certainly had it's advantages and disadvantages; the NGE on the other hand is nothing but disadvantages.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
So, I have never played SWG, before the changes or since. However it sounds great. I was just wondering, everyone hates the changes and I think SOE even admitted it was a huge mistake. Now they have like a 7k player base I heard compared to there original 200k or something.
So why can't they just change everything back?
Its the players fault really: People cheated to get Jedi quickly.
(Of course, then proceeded to whine like little girls because of the death penalty.)
Sony, seeing that this issue was destroying it's player base, since if you didn't cheat you really couldn't compete, changed the Jedi requirement and actually let people roll a Jedi at start, which was a part of the NGE.
So, I have never played SWG, before the changes or since. However it sounds great. I was just wondering, everyone hates the changes and I think SOE even admitted it was a huge mistake. Now they have like a 7k player base I heard compared to there original 200k or something.
So why can't they just change everything back?
Its the players fault really: People cheated to get Jedi quickly.
(Of course, then proceeded to whine like little girls because of the death penalty.)
Sony, seeing that this issue was destroying it's player base, since if you didn't cheat you really couldn't compete, changed the Jedi requirement and actually let people roll a Jedi at start, which was a part of the NGE.
Now Sony is the bad guy
People cheated to get jedi quickly? Seriously? Where did you get this tidbit of new wisdom from?
First SOE never admitted the NGE was a mistake. Specifically Cris Cao stated that the players are too stupid to know what they want and that he would tell them what they wanted. Secondly, John Smedley stated that the way they implemented the NGE was where they made the mistake. Much like how certain politicians say that it is not the legislation that they have introduced that is flawed, but how they communicated said legislation.
Finally, Smedley had said something to the effect that the original code was destroyed. Now, anyone that has ever programmed professionally knows for a fact that this is either: A) Evidence of how shoddy things are at SOE as they do not even keep revision backups both on site and off site. Or, That what Cao stated is how SOE feels about gamers in general so they lied through their teeth knowing y'all are too dumb to know any better. And seeing the hype for DCUO, Smed and Cao are probably right :P
Originally posted by severius Specifically Cris Cao stated that the players are too stupid to know what they want and that he would tell them what they wanted.
So, I have never played SWG, before the changes or since. However it sounds great. I was just wondering, everyone hates the changes and I think SOE even admitted it was a huge mistake. Now they have like a 7k player base I heard compared to there original 200k or something.
So why can't they just change everything back?
Its the players fault really: People cheated to get Jedi quickly.
(Of course, then proceeded to whine like little girls because of the death penalty.)
Sony, seeing that this issue was destroying it's player base, since if you didn't cheat you really couldn't compete, changed the Jedi requirement and actually let people roll a Jedi at start, which was a part of the NGE.
Now Sony is the bad guy
People cheated to get jedi quickly? Seriously? Where did you get this tidbit of new wisdom from?
First SOE never admitted the NGE was a mistake. Specifically Cris Cao stated that the players are too stupid to know what they want and that he would tell them what they wanted. Secondly, John Smedley stated that the way they implemented the NGE was where they made the mistake. Much like how certain politicians say that it is not the legislation that they have introduced that is flawed, but how they communicated said legislation.
Finally, Smedley had said something to the effect that the original code was destroyed. Now, anyone that has ever programmed professionally knows for a fact that this is either: A) Evidence of how shoddy things are at SOE as they do not even keep revision backups both on site and off site. Or, That what Cao stated is how SOE feels about gamers in general so they lied through their teeth knowing y'all are too dumb to know any better. And seeing the hype for DCUO, Smed and Cao are probably right :P
I do believe your wrong. If I remember right Smedly last year said they had made a mistake with the NGE, but then he went on to say they had messed up and deleted the code.
I dont believe they were that stupid to delete the code, there should be backups somewhere, otherwise they are totaly inept as a company. It just hard to believe you would delete the code unless it was deleted do to malice of an employee.
I think the real truth is 3 years after the nge they dont have a way of reverting back, unlest they made a seperate game.
I do believe your wrong. If I remember right Smedly last year said they had made a mistake with the NGE, but then he went on to say they had messed up and deleted the code.
I dont believe they were that stupid to delete the code, there should be backups somewhere, otherwise they are totaly inept as a company. It just hard to believe you would delete the code unless it was deleted do to malice of an employee.
Back in 2005 soe said they couldn't go back even if they wanted to, because they didn't have the old code anymore. I don't recall exactly who said it, but I recall it being said.
Anyone who has ever programmed knows the most important thing to do is backup, backup and then more backup. I couldn't believe that they would even try to pass that off as a reason why they couldn't go back.
Smed has made comments in the past about the mistakes of the NGE, but never really said the NGE itself was a mistake. The reference has always been about talking to players about changes or how it was implemented. Seeing that soe still misleads its players, developes major changes to their games in secret I think we can conclude that he doesn't believe anything they did with the NGE was a mistake. I'm certain they still blame the players for not loving what they shovel out.
My opinion for why they will never bring back the old game is simply John Smedleys pride (might have messed the name up). He has never come out and said that the NGE was a bad idea, he only said customers voted with their wallets or something like that. John refuses to admit he made a bad call and will never bring back the old game because that would show he was wrong. He pushed for the NGE and he defended it to the end. To go back now mean he would have to eat crow and he simply will not do it.
I dont think the NGE was the only bad thing, holocrons and jedi started the snowball rolling and it just got worse from there. All the lies on the forums about fixing professions, smugglers anyone? Selling expansion packs right before the NGE came out and killed peoples professions. The amount of lies told by the SOE staff was simply staggering.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
I do believe your wrong. If I remember right Smedly last year said they had made a mistake with the NGE, but then he went on to say they had messed up and deleted the code.
I dont believe they were that stupid to delete the code, there should be backups somewhere, otherwise they are totaly inept as a company. It just hard to believe you would delete the code unless it was deleted do to malice of an employee.
Back in 2005 soe said they couldn't go back even if they wanted to, because they didn't have the old code anymore. I don't recall exactly who said it, but I recall it being said.
Anyone who has ever programmed knows the most important thing to do is backup, backup and then more backup. I couldn't believe that they would even try to pass that off as a reason why they couldn't go back.
Smed has made comments in the past about the mistakes of the NGE, but never really said the NGE itself was a mistake. The reference has always been about talking to players about changes or how it was implemented. Seeing that soe still misleads its players, developes major changes to their games in secret I think we can conclude that he doesn't believe anything they did with the NGE was a mistake. I'm certain they still blame the players for not loving what they shovel out.
Smedley has gone as far to actually state (within the last year or two) that the current NGE version of SWG was the game he wished was released to begin with. He and his minions have failed to grasp the reality that no matter how much content or shinies they bolt onto SWG, the NGE is still the failed core system forced on the players over five years ago and will continue to drive players away. Those closed and empty servers speak volumes.
LucasArts still believed in the NGE though, so they hired Bioware to take the idea and build the NGE from the ground up.
So you have SWTOR.
THIS is the present danger for Players. Just like SOE didn't care about it's customers of SWG, neither will Bioware be allowed to care about SW:TOR's customers... because SOE answers to someone else and so too does Bioware... because the same evil genius is behind the scenes in both cases....
Lucas Arts. It's LA that I watch out for and avoid. SOE was played like a tool back then. Bioware will be the tool this time.
That's why as a Star Wars Fan I didn't jump head first on the SW:TOR bandwagon. If it's customers vs. Lucas Arts, LA will win. SW:TOR will end up being an even bigger mess than SWG was ... you wait and see. Not right away of course, it will take time for LA to mess this one up (Bioware will fight them), but LA will eventually screw up SW:TOR too.
Even though I am at times an incoherent babbling idiot, I thought it best to warn all of you hyped over SW:TOR. It's not going to end up pretty.
I tend to try and play the game for what it is, not for what it could be. I don't like dealing in the future and basing my interest on something that could or could not happen. You don't know any more then anyone else what "could" happen. That speculation on one possible future. Kinda like canceling going to the park cause theres a chance it could rain.
LA and BW made Kotor and that came out pretty good as well. I think your placing too much importance on LA. All they do is make sure the lore fits. Granted they have some control on what goes in it. It's not LA we should be worried about but EA. Also if EA or even LA see the game making enough profit as it is. Then they will leave it alone. If however they see the game failing as was the case with SWG with leaking subs left and right then they will make certain changes to try and stop or reverse that flow
EA may want money (what company doesn't) but they are also a smart company that knows messing with something thats doing well is not the smart move. If anything is changed in a game it's in an attempt to fix what is wrong. They figured the CU and NGE would fix it. They obviously judged wrong.
If ToR does well, i don't see the need to change things as drastically as they did in SWG, if it does poorly then it will. But then again it was doing poorly anyway so it needs a change.
SWG was failing as it was losing people, thus a change occured, if they had been doing well there would be no reason to change anything. The change was a symptom of the problem not the root cause. Granted it went from dying slowly to being nearly killed out right but sometimes you take that chance.
Everyone has this idea that EA wants to kill all their projects to make money. However they'd prefer a project do well so that money keeps coming in. Smart companies know a constant stream of money is a lot better then a pulse then nothing.
I completly agree with what you said for the most part. LA wanted to changed SWG from a sandbox to a theme park in a attempt to gain back the subscriptions they were loosing, and it backfired. Now they have SWTOR, and its everything they wanted the NGE to be that it simply could not become, more or less because SOE sucks at engineering and scripting, and Bioware Co are legends among RPG gaming. SOE could not fix half of the stuff that was wrong with SWG, and SWTOR will not be plagued by those failures trust me,plus SWG did not have hardly any content cause the developers were lazy nubs.
SWG peaked at ~230K around spring of 2004 but the launch of World of Warcraft in October 2004 took away some of the SWG players and the JTL expansion in Nov 2004 didn't really help and after that it was a slow decline even through the CU which is why Smedly launched the NGE expecting people to flock to it but the exact opposite happened. I started to enjoy the CU when they fixed some of the major issues and Smed himself even said "the CU is here to stay" in Sept 2005 but a month later announced the NGE, utter betrayal.
Death to false MMORPG's..Death to the false Star wars ..death to CU and NGE.
/hail Pre CU - Star wars Galaxies..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Looking back, the CU was not so bad. However, the NGE really killed SWG. Once NGE hit, characters were just shells of what they had once been. Players working towards the "Jedi" profession were betrayed if they had not already hit by the time NGE went live. Crafting was not totally useless but much of the richness and uniqueness that was SWG crafting was gone.
In my case, my friends left not to go play WoW but because SWG was no longer SWG.
Comments
No he is right. Amazon was offering the starter pack or some crap before the NGE was announced. SOE was like oh it's a mistake, it was deleted and then bam they hit us with the NGE news sometime later.
Yes not only that but thats what cost tiggs her job, as she stood up for the player base. There was like a prima guide and starter pack, and a lot of us asked tons of questions. Anybody remember how many folks griped about it, and soe finally gave in and gave refunds for mustifar to those who wanted it. However that would cost you your bunker, so i did not ask for a refund.
It's probably a matter of not being able to undo the changes to the database without rolling back to when the moment before they began converting said DB to NGE. If SOE could not rebuild each individual build/version of the client and server software, they're grossly incompetent in version control and data archival.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
the major problem with both versions of SWG was it was broken, NGE had broken quests that said "We are sorry but this quest has not been emplimented yet." Pre NGE the game had tons of them and they didn't even say we are sorry, you just got to a quest and couldn't do it. No options of choosing your rewards, which sucked if you played a non armor race, so you ended up with stuff to just put up in your house. They had a whole broken class, commando, and they bowed to greifers who complained they got owned. I am siting the three bounty hunter story there, anyone unfamiliar with that will never understand why creature handelers were removed. It had the option of being an amazing game but they didn't fix what was broken.
Actually, Jeff Freeman said population was rising during the Combat Upgrade period of time. Not by much, but it was increasing.
If by nudge you mean pushed off a cliff into a bottomless chasm, then yes that is the effect the NGE had on the games population.
Smed was also credited with saying subs increased following the CU. Whether or not the CU was good for the game or not is pretty much irrelevent when faced with the NGE. The CU certainly had it's advantages and disadvantages; the NGE on the other hand is nothing but disadvantages.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
Its the players fault really: People cheated to get Jedi quickly.
(Of course, then proceeded to whine like little girls because of the death penalty.)
Sony, seeing that this issue was destroying it's player base, since if you didn't cheat you really couldn't compete, changed the Jedi requirement and actually let people roll a Jedi at start, which was a part of the NGE.
Now Sony is the bad guy
People cheated to get jedi quickly? Seriously? Where did you get this tidbit of new wisdom from?
First SOE never admitted the NGE was a mistake. Specifically Cris Cao stated that the players are too stupid to know what they want and that he would tell them what they wanted. Secondly, John Smedley stated that the way they implemented the NGE was where they made the mistake. Much like how certain politicians say that it is not the legislation that they have introduced that is flawed, but how they communicated said legislation.
Finally, Smedley had said something to the effect that the original code was destroyed. Now, anyone that has ever programmed professionally knows for a fact that this is either: A) Evidence of how shoddy things are at SOE as they do not even keep revision backups both on site and off site. Or,
That what Cao stated is how SOE feels about gamers in general so they lied through their teeth knowing y'all are too dumb to know any better. And seeing the hype for DCUO, Smed and Cao are probably right :P
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Very boldly said but still truth.
I do believe your wrong. If I remember right Smedly last year said they had made a mistake with the NGE, but then he went on to say they had messed up and deleted the code.
I dont believe they were that stupid to delete the code, there should be backups somewhere, otherwise they are totaly inept as a company. It just hard to believe you would delete the code unless it was deleted do to malice of an employee.
I think the real truth is 3 years after the nge they dont have a way of reverting back, unlest they made a seperate game.
Back in 2005 soe said they couldn't go back even if they wanted to, because they didn't have the old code anymore. I don't recall exactly who said it, but I recall it being said.
Anyone who has ever programmed knows the most important thing to do is backup, backup and then more backup. I couldn't believe that they would even try to pass that off as a reason why they couldn't go back.
Smed has made comments in the past about the mistakes of the NGE, but never really said the NGE itself was a mistake. The reference has always been about talking to players about changes or how it was implemented. Seeing that soe still misleads its players, developes major changes to their games in secret I think we can conclude that he doesn't believe anything they did with the NGE was a mistake. I'm certain they still blame the players for not loving what they shovel out.
My opinion for why they will never bring back the old game is simply John Smedleys pride (might have messed the name up). He has never come out and said that the NGE was a bad idea, he only said customers voted with their wallets or something like that. John refuses to admit he made a bad call and will never bring back the old game because that would show he was wrong. He pushed for the NGE and he defended it to the end. To go back now mean he would have to eat crow and he simply will not do it.
I dont think the NGE was the only bad thing, holocrons and jedi started the snowball rolling and it just got worse from there. All the lies on the forums about fixing professions, smugglers anyone? Selling expansion packs right before the NGE came out and killed peoples professions. The amount of lies told by the SOE staff was simply staggering.
Smedley has gone as far to actually state (within the last year or two) that the current NGE version of SWG was the game he wished was released to begin with. He and his minions have failed to grasp the reality that no matter how much content or shinies they bolt onto SWG, the NGE is still the failed core system forced on the players over five years ago and will continue to drive players away. Those closed and empty servers speak volumes.
SWG peaked at ~230K around spring of 2004 but the launch of World of Warcraft in October 2004 took away some of the SWG players and the JTL expansion in Nov 2004 didn't really help and after that it was a slow decline even through the CU which is why Smedly launched the NGE expecting people to flock to it but the exact opposite happened. I started to enjoy the CU when they fixed some of the major issues and Smed himself even said "the CU is here to stay" in Sept 2005 but a month later announced the NGE, utter betrayal.
I seem to recall soe saying that SWG reached 330,000 players shortly after release.
Death to false MMORPG's..Death to the false Star wars ..death to CU and NGE.
/hail Pre CU - Star wars Galaxies..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Looking back, the CU was not so bad. However, the NGE really killed SWG. Once NGE hit, characters were just shells of what they had once been. Players working towards the "Jedi" profession were betrayed if they had not already hit by the time NGE went live. Crafting was not totally useless but much of the richness and uniqueness that was SWG crafting was gone.
In my case, my friends left not to go play WoW but because SWG was no longer SWG.
Let's party like it is 1863!