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MMO does not equal RPG
Jimmy_Scythe
Member CommonPosts: 3,586
And the term Massive can have different meanings depending on genre. But I'm getting a little ahead of myself.
The problem with MMOs is the RPG part. There's a huge list of tropes and genre obligations that get tied up with RPGs. The reason you all feel so burned out on MMORPGs is because you've been straped to the same genre for over a decade. I don't care how much you may love RPGs, twenty or more hours a week of them for years on end will lead to ennui at some point.
And then there's the fact that we're all waiting around for a WoW killer. It seems that developers can't even come up with a new MMO that isn't a direct challenge with the current king of the hill. Every MMO between 2000 and 2005 was trying to be Everquest and every MMO since 2005 has tried being World of Warcraft. Sure the mechanics are tweaked a little and sometimes they throw another skin on top of it, but it always turns out to be just another poor man's version of WoW.
Maybe it's time to stop competing with WoW. Maybe it's time to break out into other genres. You know? Untapped markets?
We're only just starting to see the beginings of this. MMOFPS games, though few, are starting to crop up. MMORTS games are even rarer, but there are some pretty promising prospects on the horizon. But why stop there? Why not have MMO Business sims? Or MMO Sports games? MMO murder mysteries?
Everyone else here seems to want the industry to inject life back into a dead horse. I want a new live one. Give me some variety that isn't chained and shackled to the work of B. F. Skinner. Give me games that are more about gameplay than reading spreadsheets. Seriously, give us something that isn't an RPG. The market is there. People played the hell out of Planetside when it first came out. People are playing the hell out of MAG. And I'm sure that people would have no problems running a total fantasy football or racing league. I personally wouldn't mind seeing a truely massive RTS along the lines of DoW: Dark Crusade only with thousands of planets unstead of just one.
We aren't going to see any progress until the MMO is separated from the RPG.
Comments
Really? I'm still waiting for one that is an RPG, and I'm ecstatic that BioWare appears to finally be merging RPG with MMO in The Old Republic.
As far as I'm concerned, MMOs have been their own genre apart from RPGs since Day One, which also happens to be the day since which I've longed for an MMO/RPG hybrid.
Either you're using 'RPG' as a synonym of 'fantasy,' or you and I have very different ideas of what an RPG is.
I agree with you I think SWTOR will either be a step in the right direction and really open developers eyes that we need a story and to make it feel more like a very solid game with a game world filled with other players.
If your going to ban the trolls please for our sake ban the Fan Boys too.
You play a role as another person in a virtual world. Sound like roleplaying to me.
By your overly-broad definition, all video games are RPGs.
I'd be happy if someone did a real high-fantasy, with Kings, daughters, dragons, and undead, and with real depth no BS rat tail quests, no instancing phasing or steampunk. Oh, and mostly PVE because NPCs know how to roleplay.
To me, that would be a real mmorpg.
We play most video games for months or years?
what you mention is actually soon over the horizon..
role players, they are drying up and dying out.
I'll take this one...
For those of us that saw the First MMO -"RPG"'s come into being, we judged it based off of Pen and Paper games of the similar genre. Not really our fault, due to this is how they where marketed and sold at the time. So based off of that .. here is why EQ and no other MMO has been a RPG.
A Role Playing Game is not ," Well you can select a class to play like a rogue , so Bam! you have role playing." ... No that's class playing. Role Playing should mean , you play a role in the world. Meaning what you do has real impact and makes real change in the world.
No Game has done this to date. Every game has had repeatable quest in a never changing world. Oh sure they add an expansion from time to time. But you still won't do one thing to actually CHANGE THE WORLD. Doesn't matter if your the first person on the server to beat the quest / slay that monster / talk to that race of people ect. ect. You might get a title to show you where first to do it. But in the end it won't mean a thing because everyone else on the server can come behind you and do it also. First to slay that epic raid monster ? don't mean nothing when another guild kills it two days later.
I loved Old School, Pre-Luclin EQ, and in my mind it's still the Best MMO out there. But it will Never be a game you play a role in. It's just a world you play in. See the difference?
Until you see a world where players every action will change what happens in the world, you will never play a role in that world. You are just moving scenery.. something to take up space.
Don't worry though, you will probably never see a real Role Playing Game. No game dev will spend the time needed to write stories for every npc in the world, make a world big enough to really explore in or change combat from the idea that it is required to take every single hit point in order to kill someone. Until we see major changes in what game developers view the purpose of the player in the world is, you will never have a RPG, they will all just be MMO's.
What does that have to do with anything you said? If you've forgotten already, you can look up a couple of lines and see what your post said. Please point out to me where you said anything about months or years.
A person who HAVE to kill 600 billion boars, quite a role u have there :P
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
MMO has nothing to do with Role Playing. However, if you attempt to create a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game then it's your choice to do so. There are many non-RPG MMO games that has been released like Planetside.
However, you have to remember most "MMORPG" are not RPG or even MMO!!!
The Role Playing elements are washed out and no longer serve the meaning of the word. Just because you can level doesn't mean it is a Role Playing game. I call them Quest Driven with lots of Hand Holding Instant Reward Games. There's no sense of danger, no need to co-operate with others, you are always distracted by continuous "quests" (errands). They destroyed exploration completely and there's no sense of surprise whatsoever. No alignments, your deeds don't matter. You have no choice you always restricted. You can't kill your own kind and there's no faction systems or anything that would promote role playing. Too linear and shallow. Extremeley boring game designs.
Most of them are not even close to Multiplayer let alone the Massively part.
Videogame RPGs are different from Tabletop RPGs.
It's been the case for 25+ years of videogame RPGs. You clearly recognize the differences, yet your post hints at thinking they should be the same. They aren't, they haven't been, and they likely will never be the same.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
RPGs are games with choices and factions that matter, MMORPGs like WoW and EQ2 are ACTION rpgs, not RPGs
SWTOR is looking to be the FIRST real MMORPG
wow. a lengthy post that all makes sense and completely echoes my thoughts on the subject.
bravo man. you are completely right. the RPG fetish must end before we can get out of the MMO dark ages. and before RPG fans get all personally offended for no good reason, i'm not saying they will or should be eliminated. they should just have the same balance against other gameplay genres as they do in the singleplayer and small-scale multiplayer spaces, instead of being the %99 over-representation that they have in the MMO space.
everything thats tried some new elements so far (like so-called MMOFPS games) all were weighed down and compromised by MANY RPG mechanics and cliches.
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no, just like planetside, they all have experience points and leveling up, character progression that makes you play for a long time before you're qualified to be more than a foot soldier etc.
what MMO out there doesn't have RPG elements like this? second life is the only one i can think of.
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Play my entire game FREE if you want
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I don't understand the problem here...
MMO - "add acronym FPS,RTS,RPG,SIM"
Clearly define the definition so you can market it the way you want?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
mmorts is still quite an exciting seemingly little tapped prospect.
I mean imagine it you start with a unattackable headquarter base, which is also essentially your 'lobby'. You start of in the game advancing via attacking AI rather than other players. You advance to a point where you got supply chains set up, and where you have the largeness to attack other players. Each day would be logging in and involving a battle. Maybe what could be done is instanced plots- whereby players that are online are instanced next to other players that are online. That could be pretty fun.
If you are talking strictly about Role Playing aspect of MMOS than RP was never part of MMOS. I love role playing but people always look at me funny. Try declaring openly in game or on forums that you love to role play and see the reactions you get.
Problem is there aren't any real MMO+RPG since SWG pre-NGE (only exception is Vanguard which was born crippled)
What we have now are MMO dressed as RPGs, problem is that developers cannot fool no one
People who likes MMORPGs, they like the RPG part more.
The best example of the difference between an MMORPG and a generic MMO is SWG
SWG pre NGE was a MMORPG, SWG post NGE is just a generic MMO
It is about time developers start making MMO+RPGs
Video Games have never giving you Role Playing and should really have it removed from their terminology. So people like you won't get confused with what you see and mistake it for a RPG.
It can't be a Video RPG If you don't play a role in the world.How are you playing a role if nothing you do matters to anyone but you ?So your wrong and missed the point of my comment altogether. Should spend a little more time trying to understand what people say and less time flaming what they say.
You are right, just like i was when i said it. There has never been a Video Game RPG and there probably never will be.
It seems that some people here don't understand what an RPG in terms of video games is. A game being an RPG has absolutely nothing to do with it involving any kind of roleplaying whatsoever. An RPG is a game that uses similar mechanics for stats that can be found in tabletop RPG games such as DnD.
Yeah, I know what you mean.
But somehwere along the line of making the first video game RPG I think the developer got the WRONG aspect of the RPG they were basing it on Role Playing in no way hints towards stat mechanics or leveling.
And alas the broken term of role playing being something completely unrelated was born (Because a game had roleplaying and that unrelated thing).
I also agree MMO doesn't equal RPG, but I am on MMORPG.com and wish to talk about MMORPGs ;p (Bwuahahah).
Roleplaying is acting, nothing else. The role in roleplaying is taken from
a part or character played by an actor or actress.
Not
proper or customary function: the teacher's role in society.
If it were then you woudl hear sentences like "She (A teacher) is roleplaying as a teacher at our school.", when someone says that you expect that person to NOT be an actual teacher.
So you can't play the role of a rogue class which is a customary role in the game's combat mechanics.
It is a shame this definition has been declared oficial due to misunderstandings, but nothing really important was lost that day.
Given the monolithically huge state of the videogame RPG industry, it's sort of silly to say they somehow "got it wrong" when they chose what elements to include in videogame RPGs. They're fun games people enjoy (if they weren't, you wouldn't be here.)
Your teacher analogy seems to not really make a point.
The statement "We're playing fictional characters in a game" alone seems to very clearly describe role-playing. Could that definition extend to most videogames? Sure, but the definition through 25+ years of use has grown to mean specifically the games where story and character growth are focuses.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Makes sense, I guess it was just a misunderstanding from the player's point of view.
I lack immersion in the MMOs I have played so I forgot the "story" part.