For the love of god, companies should merge and deliver!

Kopogero

Heck I would pay $30-60 a month without problem if I knew one SUPER QUALITY MMORPG is published, rather than see my life goes by waiting and waiting for a good MMORPG.

Why people can't work together to deliver? It's crystal clear MMORPG's have no limit in terms of development and innovations. And then some will say "if it's another fail bigger $ would be lost", but then goes the other way as well "if it's not fail, aka developers know wtf are doing the success would be = bigger profit is made".

It's crystal clear the reason why todays MMORPG's are bad in general. I'm an adult and a veteran gamer with 20 years on my resume. The MMORPG's I see today have not evolved much from back 10 years ago. Only thing I see evolved is the graphics, but that's it. The complexity, the depth, the lack of options and freedom of character development as well as immersion is missing. And then the obvious question remains for me to ask myself is:

Should I start learning to forget and become a zombie so I can enjoy the bad thats out there like when I was 6 years old or should I start doing something myself because clearly nobody can do it? Well this thread is a start and for the love of god I hope there is a human being out there that loves half gaming as much as I do and is in the right spot with the right budget to save me from doing it all myself.

We got billionaires and presidents, leaders around the world who clearly are not interested in gaming. If I had $999,999,999,999 in my pocket right now I swear on my parents I would be building a MMORPG or playing one if I enjoyed it, because thats my passion. Since I was 6 years old I did all I could through the years to find one more hour to enjoy gaming.

RIght now what we got is lot's of MMORPG's, which is good, but none of them are worth playing long term as well lose its spark very quickly due to the lack of development invested in them. I could subscribe to 4-5 bad MMORPG's, but due to the fact all of them require investment of time because it's a MMORPG where you develop a chr it would be impossible.

So yea, companies please PLEASE pick up the phone and say hey, would you like to work with us? No one is forcing you to charge $15 and no more for a sub. No one is stopping you from sharing ideas and vision and then if you fail again the fail will be split among the companies so basically the loss would be same, but if more people work clearly more can be done to DELIVER.

REMEMBER freedom, choices and less rules that limit the player experience. Those are one of the basics for making a more intriguing, more mature and overall quality MMORPG. 

Peace out. 

Plasmicredx

I don't know what it's like to work at a game company, but given the rumors I've heard, it sounds scary to have a publisher. It's probably just all the bad gossip I read over the internet, but in the real world bad stuff is gonna happen. I hope indie developers start figuring out how to make MMORPGs. That would help the genre out tremendously.

anemo

Just take a break from MMOs for a year or two.   They'll be better after that wait.   Not because they got better but because you haven't played for a while, I know this from experience.

I can't imagine someone having the entirity of all videogame genres as their primary hobby, and not get bored.    I don't get why you're trying to narrow that down to just MMOs.

deniter

Merging happens all the time. Lately there was some unknown companies called Blizzard Entertainment and Activision Whatever merged to ActivisionBlizzard and let me tell you how the quality of MMOs skyrocketed in a blink of an eye.

ok, enough of sarcasm but yeah, this could work with some smaller indie companies pretty well. Bigger ones would only make mainstream crap like WoW.

nomss

um... We've got DCUO, Tera, Rift, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2 coming. Make you pick Untill then: be patience like everybody else ><

stevengw

dude! all the mmorpg's are good in their own way.

Your imagination is of your own ideal mmorpg.

Why don't u develop your own..

The companies have their own ideas and follow those.

You cant please all the people all of the time, but you can please some of the people some times!

Gdemami

I wonder where people making similar posts come from... Are they so detached from reality or they were yet unable to connect?

Arioc

It's fun to dream isn't it? Like what if bunnies and unicorns got merged, floppy eared unicorn bunny horses with big floppy feet! SQEE!!!

Also about as likely...

Plasmicredx

"Should I start learning to forget and become a zombie so I can enjoy the bad thats out there like when I was 6 years old or should I start doing something myself because clearly nobody can do it?"

Once you are a critic, you are always a critic lol. Everything that bothers you will be something that determines what games you will like and don't like. You can either get into game development, or just stay a game critic. It's your choice.

I personally am trying to get into game development. Indie style. I'm too afraid of game companies. Just do whatever you feel is right for you and your future.

Mardy

Merging don't necessarily make things better, just as high budget don't always mean a good MMO.  Look at Warhammer Online, a hugely expensive game, expensive IP, big budget, but it turned out to be a disappointment.  Warhammer's a popular name in the gaming industry, so there's no excuse to not have a successful game.  Some of the mistakes they've made with RvR were also inexcusable.  Mythic made DAOC, arguably one of the best, if not the best, RvR game out there.  Who knew they would forget all of their past knowledge and create a WAR that had RvR combat/mechanics that seemed primitive compared to DAOC's prime days.

 

Another example, people thought giving Brad McQuaid $30mil and he would give us the next Everquest.  4-5 years later, $30mil later, he didn't have a finished product.  Vanguard was at least 2 years ahead of being finished when it launched.  Horrible launch = failed game in the MMO genre.  Brad end up selling out because his company that he was CEO of ran out of money completely and couldn't even launch the game without SOE's help.

 

Bottom line is that you don't need to merge companies or have a bigger budget than what we've already seen. It's not the number of people in a company, it's having the RIGHT people in your company.  Brad McQuaid should've been the Producer of a new game, not the CEO of a company.  Mythic should have created DAOC 2 to please their loyal fanbase from DAOC, using their knowledge of DAOC do's and don'ts.  DAOC *was* a successful game, but Mark Jacobs got greedy and wanted a slice of the WoW pie.  What they ended up having was a game not as good as WoW, and nowhere near as good as DAOC.  It's a no brainer why the game failed.

 

So thumbs down on the merger idea.  Get the right people into right positions for a team that knows how to make fun games that are also polished, content filled, and run well at the same time.  There are companies that have the size & budget, but they choose to go for quantity instead of quality.  SOE comes to mind.  They could've easiliy stocked up large live development teams for 1 or 2 games.  Instead they want to go run 5+ MMO's at the same time while stretching their resources thin. I blame Smed for it since he's the head of the company, so again, it comes down to having the right people in the right positions of a company.  Being big or merging to get tons of developers don't necessarily mean AAA quailty games.

Quizzical

Throwing lots of money at a game doesn't magically guarantee a great game.  Look at Tabula Rasa, for example.

I think it's better for a company to start with a more modest budget, and then once development is a ways along, if it looks like they could be on to something special, then increase the budget and allow more time as needed to make sure they do everything right.  But if the game isn't working out very well, then just push it out the door, rinse your hands of it, and move on to the next project.  Better to have a low-budget flop than a big-budget flop.

Then again, the question of who makes the decision on whether to increase funding is a tricky one.  The game development team will always argue for more time and money, as they know that when the game launches, a lot of the developers will be laid off.  The publisher or whoever is providing the funding doesn't necessarily have much of an idea of whether the game will be good--but is aware of the reasons why developers have a vested interest in saying the game is going to be great if only they get more time and money.

-----

The other problem is that different people have different preferences.  No game is going to be considered great by more than a relatively small fraction of the people who like to play computer games.  Some players want a long, slow leveling curve.  Others want a game to be completely devoid of anything that they perceive as grinding.  Some want open world PVP.  Others want to be free to do PVE content in peace without any chance of being ganked.  Some want acquiring better, stronger gear to be the focus of the game.  Others want gear to be not particularly important, but the game to focus on quests and storyline without players having to worry about whether they're becoming underpowered.  Some players want crafting to be vitally important, so that they can craft gear and sell it to others.  Other players don't like crafting and don't want to be bothered with tracking down a crafter to build them something they need.  There are many other such choices that a game has to make in the business model.  There are obvious reasons why you can't satisfy all of those groups of players in a single game.  And that's even if you restrict to players who like MMORPGs; if you're trying to attract the first person shooter crowd and the Farmville crowd to the same game, it's harder yet.

wisesquirrel

Originally posted by Mardy

Merging don't necessarily make things better, just as high budget don't always mean a good MMO.  Look at Warhammer Online, a hugely expensive game, expensive IP, big budget, but it turned out to be a disappointment.  Warhammer's a popular name in the gaming industry, so there's no excuse to not have a successful game.  Some of the mistakes they've made with RvR were also inexcusable.  Mythic made DAOC, arguably one of the best, if not the best, RvR game out there.  Who knew they would forget all of their past knowledge and create a WAR that had RvR combat/mechanics that seemed primitive compared to DAOC's prime days.

 

Another example, people thought giving Brad McQuaid $30mil and he would give us the next Everquest.  4-5 years later, $30mil later, he didn't have a finished product.  Vanguard was at least 2 years ahead of being finished when it launched.  Horrible launch = failed game in the MMO genre.  Brad end up selling out because his company that he was CEO of ran out of money completely and couldn't even launch the game without SOE's help.

 

Bottom line is that you don't need to merge companies or have a bigger budget than what we've already seen. It's not the number of people in a company, it's having the RIGHT people in your company.  Brad McQuaid should've been the Producer of a new game, not the CEO of a company.  Mythic should have created DAOC 2 to please their loyal fanbase from DAOC, using their knowledge of DAOC do's and don'ts.  DAOC *was* a successful game, but Mark Jacobs got greedy and wanted a slice of the WoW pie.  What they ended up having was a game not as good as WoW, and nowhere near as good as DAOC.  It's a no brainer why the game failed.

 

So thumbs down on the merger idea.  Get the right people into right positions for a team that knows how to make fun games that are also polished, content filled, and run well at the same time.  There are companies that have the size & budget, but they choose to go for quantity instead of quality.  SOE comes to mind.  They could've easiliy stocked up large live development teams for 1 or 2 games.  Instead they want to go run 5+ MMO's at the same time while stretching their resources thin. I blame Smed for it since he's the head of the company, so again, it comes down to having the right people in the right positions of a company.  Being big or merging to get tons of developers don't necessarily mean AAA quailty games.

I'm curious, how did DAOC RvR get so popular?, how was PVP there designed, could you PVP starting from lvl 1 or did you have to level beforehand?

I keep hearing it pulled off the wars pretty well.

Unknown

 

I sympathise BUT I don't agree.

 

I think the problem is that we older gamers, experienced MMOers looking for depth/challenge/maturity in a game, are NOT the target audience for MMOs any more.

 

We are bound to be dissapointed even by "big" games like SWTOR and (perhaps) GW2 because we just aren't 15. We are 30. Or older. We are a generation removed from where "they" think the money is.

 

I think this is true for a lot of people posting on this site.

 

This isn't to say we cannot enjoy gaming anymore. I still do. One just has to accept that these games will tend to feel underwhelming/shallow and just enjoy the times when they are still fun.

 

Our biggest hope is in the Indie companies which is why I have played/supported games like EVE, Fallen Earth and DF even though PvP is not my thing.

Mardy

Originally posted by wisesquirrel

I'm curious, how did DAOC RvR get so popular?, how was PVP there designed, could you PVP starting from lvl 1 or did you have to level beforehand?

I keep hearing it pulled off the wars pretty well.

Well it was popular because it was the first massive RvR MMO, back when there were mostly only PvE (EQ, AC1) or FFA PvP (AC1, UO).  DAOC RvR didn't get good right away, they did go through a lot of tweaks, trial & error, patches, tears, and many class nerfs & buffs.  So it went through the same ups and downs of other MMO's. 

There's too many things to list and I don't want to steer this topic off subject.  But one big difference with DAOC is that it offers 3 realms, when most developers today still stick with 2.  When you have a game with 2 realm choices, you end up with problems much like what we saw with WoW & WAR, where people tend to crowd towards the larger realm, the winning side.  DAOC with 3 realms allowed for more flexibility.  It doesn't solve population issues totally, but it helps having 3.

Also the RvR gameplay was really good, people can all play whether they like to solo, run in a gank group, or run with a zerg raid.  There are reasons to siege towers & castles & relics, so people kept doing it.  The whole RvR field is a persistent world so you don't have to wait for an instance queue to open up, or a set timer for when you can RvR, you can play in it all day & night if you want to.

Anyways, more to it but you can read up about it if you like.  Those were the good days, unfortunately Mythic didn't go with releasing an upgraded DAOC with a newer engine & better graphics.  They chose the money route and made WAR instead.

Plasmicredx

Originally posted by Mardy

Originally posted by wisesquirrel

I'm curious, how did DAOC RvR get so popular?, how was PVP there designed, could you PVP starting from lvl 1 or did you have to level beforehand?

I keep hearing it pulled off the wars pretty well.

Anyways, more to it but you can read up about it if you like.  Those were the good days, unfortunately Mythic didn't go with releasing an upgraded DAOC with a newer engine & better graphics.  They chose the money route and made WAR instead.

The RvR was at end game but the RvR zones themselves were part of the persistent world. So anyone could just go walk out t here, so most people really didn't until they started hitting 30+ at least in the very beginning days of DAoC. There were also Battleground zones that consisted of smaller zones and only level brackets could enter. In the beginning it was required for players to be level 20 to enter these, and the brackets consisted of every 4 levels, which is funny because that's what WoW is doing ever since Cataclysm. e.g. levels 20-24

Guild Wars 2 is going to have a PvP zone called "The Mists", it's going to be a HUGE persistent zone. Probably similar to Wintergrasp in WoW or an RvR zone in DAoC. But it will be very large I hear. It will serve as the perfect choke point for hundreds of players to go PvP. It will be balanced out by placing server against server with a population comparison to help balance it out.

TERA also looks like a lot of fun. I don't know about SWTOR.

I'll be keeping an eye out for those games.

My problem with new MMOs of today is I always get to max level and unsubscribe or reroll a new character until I've played every class. I never did that with DAoC Original. It's the EverQuest Raid Formula I can't stand. If the EQ raid formula is in all 3 of these new MMORPGs, then that is all MMORPGs will ever mean to me in the future. Just grind to max, stay for while, and then quit once everyone is wearing OP gear compared to mine.

As for what Mythic should have done instead of WAR - I don't know if upgrading DAoC one more time would have done any good... I mean let's face it, the girl that DAoC was, was getting old. And me personally, I always just played with the graphics settings set to the original ones. I definitely agree they should have put money into the game to give to players what they want. And then worked on a DAoC 2 or even follow through with that Roman Sci-Fi lol. Probably another bad thing was signing on with a publisher. They should have stayed independent...

Mithithiel

I agree that we need a greater quality of mmorpg for the new era but I still have a few hopes, that of Guild Wars 2, and also the masterminds of Bioware working on my all time favorite theme mmorpg, Star Wars: Knights of the Republic, even Diablo III has me drooling, theres good things on the way but whether they will deliver is entirely yet to be seen..