If the game is so easy that player skill or build doesn't matter then why is there SO MUCH discrimination among the community in this game? Are they completely delusional? In my experience, making sure you have a fighter, a wizard/sorc, and a cleric makes for a MUCH smoother experience. Rogues are nice too since they can disarm some annoying traps which can be quite lethal at high levels on the elite difficutly. Usually when I took a party of mostly melee, or even a bunch of casters, it gets kind of messy. Sure, it is not the typical tank/dps/healing strategy that needs to be used, but having a variety of skills is highly beneficial to a group in DDO. =/
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Only issue I had in DDO was zerg run groups. Half the time was spent running to try and keep up with the madness.
After that I just solo'd. Less hassle.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Regarding the topic, I can say the same about Rift's community. Now, they're talking about implementing addons like GearScore and Recount for Rift. Once that happens, I'm afraid there will be nothing really different about Rift besides for the "public quest" events.
You do know that intimidate doesn't work on all mob types, right?
That its reuse timer is twice longer then its duration?
That DCs at higher levels are pretty high esp. at higher difficulties?
My oppinion is that original D&D is not really balanced. Well not balanced for a mmo at least. PnP is something completely different then a mmo. Hence Turbine had to do quite some changes to PnP mechanics to at least somehow make it playable and a bit more balanced.
About D&D being the original t/m/h/r game. Yes, it has those classes / archetypes, but that is all.
Afaik (I might be wrong) this whole tanking concept (what I had in mind with t/m/h/r) was first seen in everquest.
There was no tanking in pnp d&d prior to 4th edition where wotc had tried to include it just to be more streamlined with more and more popular mmorpgs.
Will a dungeon master really play a highly inteligent enemy to go for a taunting tank? Taunting tank? What is she? A jester or a fighter?
Keeping aggro in DDO is the simplest thing ever. Intimidate skill.
D&D is the original tank/mage/healer/rogue game. DDo because of the limitations an MMO has is not well balanced and because of that rarely needs a balanced party. In DDO you need a way to stay alive and a way to kill the enemy and thats about it.
Intim works on almost all mobs. The ones it does not work on are not that important. Nor are they frequently in quests. For those any good intim tank can also hate tank.
Intim timer is not twice the duration. Timer and duration are both 6 seconds. Might I suggest playing a character with intimidation as a skill before posting absolutely incorrect and easily verified information?
If you are building a tank to use intim getting those high DCs is not hard even at higher levels and difficulties. The key is knowing what you are doing and building and gearing accordingly.
If the game is so easy that player skill or build doesn't matter then why is there SO MUCH discrimination among the community in this game? Are they completely delusional? In my experience, making sure you have a fighter, a wizard/sorc, and a cleric makes for a MUCH smoother experience. Rogues are nice too since they can disarm some annoying traps which can be quite lethal at high levels on the elite difficutly. Usually when I took a party of mostly melee, or even a bunch of casters, it gets kind of messy. Sure, it is not the typical tank/dps/healing strategy that needs to be used, but having a variety of skills is highly beneficial to a group in DDO. =/
Yes some are delusional, others are poor players who need the help that variety of skills a balanced group can bring to the table. Sure it can make things smoother, but only if each player knows and plays his part. I would rather run unbalanced with people I know than run balanced with the unknown. This entire game can be run on all difficulties with unbalanced and short filled groups quite easily.
With more knowledge and experience you tend to notice that some community beliefs are simply wrong or overstated. Rogues are nice, on elite they really help because traps can kill, but on hard or below you can easily out heal trap damage.
DDO is easy. DDO used to be hard and took tactics and thought. Turbine got rid of most of that as they turned the game F2P, for obvious reaons.
Only issue I had in DDO was zerg run groups. Half the time was spent running to try and keep up with the madness.
After that I just solo'd. Less hassle.
I seriously suggest newer players try to avoid running quests with vets and TRs. Most people who have played a while have run those quests so many times that zerging along and killing quick is the goal. Most new players will not have fun in those groups.
No doubt about it. The DDO community is in the top 5 if not the top 3 of the worst elitist, rudest and least helpful communities out there. Thing is, a lot of it comes from the veterans. It certainly was not like that in the beginning.
No doubt about it. The DDO community is in the top 5 if not the top 3 of the worst elitist, rudest and least helpful communities out there. Thing is, a lot of it comes from the veterans. It certainly was not like that in the beginning.
The divide in DDO is deep and with many reasons. Long time Vets in many cases are not happy that the F2P move brought in the F2P people that have infested other games. Along with the money they spend on the game(the good) comes the many griefers and idiots known to inhabit every F2P game ever created. Yes the majority get tired and move on but the damage is already done.
The vets are in no way innocent as many have taken to answering questions in the advice channel(the channel made for advice) with telling people to WIKI their question. If you want to give advice please do, but WIKI by itself is no answer. Of course in some cases telling a person to download a map might be the only answer as directions are tough to give in game, but other than that advice should be used to help people not degrade them for their questions.
Unfortunately because DDO has such limited content Vets and new players mixing causes friction for many. Both sides are right and wrong about this at time. If a new player does not want to rush through the quest he needs to drop group and find like minded people. A Vet should do the same if he joins a slow run and does not want to play slow. Ruining other peoples gaming is bad.
DDO guilds used to be about finding like minded people, now with renown it is about getting your guild rank high for buffs, so now you see guilds that barely know eachother full of people with many different mindset on gaming.
The reason the game is so different from the beginning is F2P. DDO in the beginning was mostly people interested in D&D, now you have many people who do not know what DDO is based off of or understand the basics.
So here I come thinking I can pretty much make anything I want as long as it performs decent, boy was I wrong everyone goes for the max build, and if they find out you do not have the cookie cutter builds its /boot for you! They claim to hate wow and accuse others of being a wow fanboy yada yada yada, oh the irony wow the irony simply is amazing. These people are just as bad with cookie cutter builds as they are in wow.
There is to many elitists in this game now, and I will never understand why there are so many elitists in mmos now, its either immature jerk elitists or the mature super jerk elitists now days.
Thats just pathetic, anyways rant off, and this is only towards well so far allot of the population in ddo, of course not everyone there is that way met a few nice ones.
Thats what happens in a Pay to win store Turbine game. You attract the wrong kind of players. LOTRO is becoming the same thing.
join us on seastone (btw no cash shop to run your bank account dry)
So here I come thinking I can pretty much make anything I want as long as it performs decent, boy was I wrong everyone goes for the max build, and if they find out you do not have the cookie cutter builds its /boot for you! They claim to hate wow and accuse others of being a wow fanboy yada yada yada, oh the irony wow the irony simply is amazing. These people are just as bad with cookie cutter builds as they are in wow.
There is to many elitists in this game now, and I will never understand why there are so many elitists in mmos now, its either immature jerk elitists or the mature super jerk elitists now days.
Thats just pathetic, anyways rant off, and this is only towards well so far allot of the population in ddo, of course not everyone there is that way met a few nice ones.
Thats what happens in a Pay to win store Turbine game. You attract the wrong kind of players. LOTRO is becoming the same thing.
DDO has very little Pay to win in the store. Most of the things in DDOs store are vanity or ease of use not really much thatv makes a build stronger except for some stacking pots but in a non competitive PVE game that stuff is basicly meaningless.
You can very easily mess up your character in DDO and you probably will not realize untill you make another, better character, because large part of game is very easy. Also, the game is old and the grinds present are deceptively long, it is bothersome to argue with someone new and undergeared over something you did ten times on every class possible and can solo it anyway, just making party for the fun.
Personally I met mostly nice people and had no trouble on what I now know are characters with fundamentally flawed builds. Then again I am smarter than the average bear and I can switch from leader to follower on a dime.
My latest was battlecleric multiclass with 10 con and it grouped just fine and never encountered any of the famous battlecleric hate even if people ended up dead (well OK it is not even battlecleric, that would be cookie cutter, but he plays like one). Probably because while the build is flawed it is not total nonsense and I did what I could with the tools at my disposal.
- This isn't just apparent in DDO, but every MMORPG. You can easily ruin your character in any game.
- Like to remind you, it's the DDO players on this forum and other forums that have said countless time over the pass 5 years that this game can be play anyway a player once. Once you are inside playing the game, people will criticize your build reminding you, that you need to play in this way or we won't accept you. Thus, DDO has same vice as any other MMORPG.
- They are non-elitist in the game who will accept you, but it hasn't stopped DDO from developing elitist. Most of whom exist on the official forums.
If the game is so easy that player skill or build doesn't matter then why is there SO MUCH discrimination among the community in this game? Are they completely delusional? In my experience, making sure you have a fighter, a wizard/sorc, and a cleric makes for a MUCH smoother experience. Rogues are nice too since they can disarm some annoying traps which can be quite lethal at high levels on the elite difficutly. Usually when I took a party of mostly melee, or even a bunch of casters, it gets kind of messy. Sure, it is not the typical tank/dps/healing strategy that needs to be used, but having a variety of skills is highly beneficial to a group in DDO. =/
Yes some are delusional, others are poor players who need the help that variety of skills a balanced group can bring to the table. Sure it can make things smoother, but only if each player knows and plays his part. I would rather run unbalanced with people I know than run balanced with the unknown. This entire game can be run on all difficulties with unbalanced and short filled groups quite easily.
With more knowledge and experience you tend to notice that some community beliefs are simply wrong or overstated. Rogues are nice, on elite they really help because traps can kill, but on hard or below you can easily out heal trap damage.
DDO is easy. DDO used to be hard and took tactics and thought. Turbine got rid of most of that as they turned the game F2P, for obvious reaons.
Traps can still kill elite. I'm not sure where it has become easy idea has come from? You can still get lost in dungeons and you still do a lot of damage if attacked by melee character in elite characters. Same with spellcaster on elite.
Hard was never truly hard even before F2P. Again, I'm not sure where this idea came from.
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The best way to play DDO is make friends and play with them, everything in the game except for a few raids can be ran with like 3 or 4, 5 people, totally shorthanded.
Then this whole conflict becomes meaningless; you won't have to deal with the rest of the community except trading and occassional pugging.
So here I come thinking I can pretty much make anything I want as long as it performs decent, boy was I wrong everyone goes for the max build, and if they find out you do not have the cookie cutter builds its /boot for you! They claim to hate wow and accuse others of being a wow fanboy yada yada yada, oh the irony wow the irony simply is amazing. These people are just as bad with cookie cutter builds as they are in wow.
There is to many elitists in this game now, and I will never understand why there are so many elitists in mmos now, its either immature jerk elitists or the mature super jerk elitists now days.
Thats just pathetic, anyways rant off, and this is only towards well so far allot of the population in ddo, of course not everyone there is that way met a few nice ones.
Why don't you just join a guild of like minded people?
I know that seems like a pat answer but it's the right answer.
go to the forums for the server you are on and do a bit of research into which guilds are recruiting and what they are about.
I highly doubt that everyone who plays ddo approaches the game the same way.
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in all honesty ALL mmo's have PLENTY of stupid, rude, hateful players. If you are haning ing around in world/general chat, thats your problem right there. Like the previous poster says, get into a good guild and get out of general chat.
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in all honesty ALL mmo's have PLENTY of stupid, rude, hateful players. If you are haning ing around in world/general chat, thats your problem right there. Like the previous poster says, get into a good guild and get out of general chat.
Which is what they are doing in WoW. Yet you have forums like this and others who complain that WoW has the worse community. If anything this proves that DDO's community is no different.
Well, and what if people do not like your build? Do they have to get you in team regardless? Are you going to force them to play with you?
Hmm..It shoudnt make a diffrence if you or your group dislikes a particular build..It's a game and that is all that is really important..
But sadly no one is going to force you to play with him..
/Junker
Indeed, you don't have to party with the person, but the problem is, there is warning or sign that there be an elitist jerk in the group when you answer an ad. The only thing you can do is answer the ad and hope such a person doesn't exist within the group.
I played DDO for a while about 6 months ago and i had a great time. I think the key it to get into a good guild and just dungeon crawl with them. And avoid the groups with names like "LEET ONLY ULTRA FAST RUNS!!!!!"
Yeah, this here. I only really see the elitists and nut jobs in general chat (before squelching their whiny noise). DDO has by far the most relaxed population of gamers I've seen in years, and if you post in Advice chat about optimal build choices you'll usually get a lot of "there is no one right path" responses. I don't group much in DDO (I prefer to solo) but I've never been in a group that even cared that my character was a custom build, actually.
That said, I do periodically encounter people who get worked up over a few specific things: battle clerics get a bad rap, because people go in with a preconception that Cleric=healbot, and some players get really obsessed with optimized builds, but they tend to rather cliqueishly stick together in their snobby little guilds (as Nethermancer is indicating above!) that makes it easy to identify them. If you meet someone who's obsessed with some sort of warforged monk/sorcerer/rogue build....you might be looking at one of these optimizers.
In the end, all I can say is, "I see fewer optimizers and min/maxers in DDO than I do in the paper and pencil version of D&D," at least online in forums, which is frankly amazing.
in all honesty ALL mmo's have PLENTY of stupid, rude, hateful players. If you are haning ing around in world/general chat, thats your problem right there. Like the previous poster says, get into a good guild and get out of general chat.
It's a little known fact that GENERAL chat is an acronym:
Its not always bad as someone as already mentioned. however, its much harder to achieve a good build through multi-classing because if your say a lvl 6 fighter level 6 rogue...you can't fight as well as a level 12 fighter nor can you perfrom rogue skills as well as a level 12 rogue (you see where I am going with this?). What makes a good multi-class build is synergies between certain classes and being able to make the most of them. Sometimes you can mix two classes that could work well together but you might spend one level too much in one or the other and suddenly you went from a hero to a zero. Character builds in DDO is an artform, one I haven't yet mastered myself.
Now as for the OP...
see my above statements about character building being a hard to master artform. that's really what it boils down to. Bad builds can lead to deaths that drain a parties resources. Potions, wands and scrolls are expensive if you have to use a ton of them just to keep your bard alive etc. Plus, there are only so many rest shrines that can only be used every 15 mins (i think thats the min limit). So if your parties healer or buffer is having to make up for your character build before tackling the big fights they may not have the mana they need to carry the party to victory afterward.
Does elitism suck, absolutely...but unfortunately sometimes its neccessary to a degree.
in all honesty ALL mmo's have PLENTY of stupid, rude, hateful players. If you are haning ing around in world/general chat, thats your problem right there. Like the previous poster says, get into a good guild and get out of general chat.
It's a little known fact that GENERAL chat is an acronym:
Godawful
Evil
Nutjobs
Engaging in
Ribald
Asshattery and
Lewd behavior
LOL!!!
You win the thread
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The zerg runs are crazy... knock things down, run to the next, screw healer recycle time. If you're new to a mission and get lost they just leave you behind.
After a few of these, I just started soloing... then left out of boredom.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Comments
If the game is so easy that player skill or build doesn't matter then why is there SO MUCH discrimination among the community in this game? Are they completely delusional? In my experience, making sure you have a fighter, a wizard/sorc, and a cleric makes for a MUCH smoother experience. Rogues are nice too since they can disarm some annoying traps which can be quite lethal at high levels on the elite difficutly. Usually when I took a party of mostly melee, or even a bunch of casters, it gets kind of messy. Sure, it is not the typical tank/dps/healing strategy that needs to be used, but having a variety of skills is highly beneficial to a group in DDO. =/
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Only issue I had in DDO was zerg run groups. Half the time was spent running to try and keep up with the madness.
After that I just solo'd. Less hassle.
Regarding the topic, I can say the same about Rift's community. Now, they're talking about implementing addons like GearScore and Recount for Rift. Once that happens, I'm afraid there will be nothing really different about Rift besides for the "public quest" events.
Intim works on almost all mobs. The ones it does not work on are not that important. Nor are they frequently in quests. For those any good intim tank can also hate tank.
Intim timer is not twice the duration. Timer and duration are both 6 seconds. Might I suggest playing a character with intimidation as a skill before posting absolutely incorrect and easily verified information?
If you are building a tank to use intim getting those high DCs is not hard even at higher levels and difficulties. The key is knowing what you are doing and building and gearing accordingly.
Yes some are delusional, others are poor players who need the help that variety of skills a balanced group can bring to the table. Sure it can make things smoother, but only if each player knows and plays his part. I would rather run unbalanced with people I know than run balanced with the unknown. This entire game can be run on all difficulties with unbalanced and short filled groups quite easily.
With more knowledge and experience you tend to notice that some community beliefs are simply wrong or overstated. Rogues are nice, on elite they really help because traps can kill, but on hard or below you can easily out heal trap damage.
DDO is easy. DDO used to be hard and took tactics and thought. Turbine got rid of most of that as they turned the game F2P, for obvious reaons.
I seriously suggest newer players try to avoid running quests with vets and TRs. Most people who have played a while have run those quests so many times that zerging along and killing quick is the goal. Most new players will not have fun in those groups.
^^this
No doubt about it. The DDO community is in the top 5 if not the top 3 of the worst elitist, rudest and least helpful communities out there. Thing is, a lot of it comes from the veterans. It certainly was not like that in the beginning.
The divide in DDO is deep and with many reasons. Long time Vets in many cases are not happy that the F2P move brought in the F2P people that have infested other games. Along with the money they spend on the game(the good) comes the many griefers and idiots known to inhabit every F2P game ever created. Yes the majority get tired and move on but the damage is already done.
The vets are in no way innocent as many have taken to answering questions in the advice channel(the channel made for advice) with telling people to WIKI their question. If you want to give advice please do, but WIKI by itself is no answer. Of course in some cases telling a person to download a map might be the only answer as directions are tough to give in game, but other than that advice should be used to help people not degrade them for their questions.
Unfortunately because DDO has such limited content Vets and new players mixing causes friction for many. Both sides are right and wrong about this at time. If a new player does not want to rush through the quest he needs to drop group and find like minded people. A Vet should do the same if he joins a slow run and does not want to play slow. Ruining other peoples gaming is bad.
DDO guilds used to be about finding like minded people, now with renown it is about getting your guild rank high for buffs, so now you see guilds that barely know eachother full of people with many different mindset on gaming.
The reason the game is so different from the beginning is F2P. DDO in the beginning was mostly people interested in D&D, now you have many people who do not know what DDO is based off of or understand the basics.
Thats what happens in a Pay to win store Turbine game. You attract the wrong kind of players. LOTRO is becoming the same thing.
join us on seastone (btw no cash shop to run your bank account dry)
http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?83070-Lotro-Players&s=d555bfc9e2f4d22851c5359cb80e5b27
DDO has very little Pay to win in the store. Most of the things in DDOs store are vanity or ease of use not really much thatv makes a build stronger except for some stacking pots but in a non competitive PVE game that stuff is basicly meaningless.
- This isn't just apparent in DDO, but every MMORPG. You can easily ruin your character in any game.
- Like to remind you, it's the DDO players on this forum and other forums that have said countless time over the pass 5 years that this game can be play anyway a player once. Once you are inside playing the game, people will criticize your build reminding you, that you need to play in this way or we won't accept you. Thus, DDO has same vice as any other MMORPG.
- They are non-elitist in the game who will accept you, but it hasn't stopped DDO from developing elitist. Most of whom exist on the official forums.
Traps can still kill elite. I'm not sure where it has become easy idea has come from? You can still get lost in dungeons and you still do a lot of damage if attacked by melee character in elite characters. Same with spellcaster on elite.
Hard was never truly hard even before F2P. Again, I'm not sure where this idea came from.
People should be free to play with whomever they want to and reject anyone for ANY reason.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
The best way to play DDO is make friends and play with them, everything in the game except for a few raids can be ran with like 3 or 4, 5 people, totally shorthanded.
Then this whole conflict becomes meaningless; you won't have to deal with the rest of the community except trading and occassional pugging.
Why don't you just join a guild of like minded people?
I know that seems like a pat answer but it's the right answer.
go to the forums for the server you are on and do a bit of research into which guilds are recruiting and what they are about.
I highly doubt that everyone who plays ddo approaches the game the same way.
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in all honesty ALL mmo's have PLENTY of stupid, rude, hateful players. If you are haning ing around in world/general chat, thats your problem right there. Like the previous poster says, get into a good guild and get out of general chat.
Which is what they are doing in WoW. Yet you have forums like this and others who complain that WoW has the worse community. If anything this proves that DDO's community is no different.
Hmm..It shoudnt make a diffrence if you or your group dislikes a particular build..It's a game and that is all that is really important..
But sadly no one is going to force you to play with him..
/Junker
Indeed, you don't have to party with the person, but the problem is, there is warning or sign that there be an elitist jerk in the group when you answer an ad. The only thing you can do is answer the ad and hope such a person doesn't exist within the group.
Yeah, this here. I only really see the elitists and nut jobs in general chat (before squelching their whiny noise). DDO has by far the most relaxed population of gamers I've seen in years, and if you post in Advice chat about optimal build choices you'll usually get a lot of "there is no one right path" responses. I don't group much in DDO (I prefer to solo) but I've never been in a group that even cared that my character was a custom build, actually.
That said, I do periodically encounter people who get worked up over a few specific things: battle clerics get a bad rap, because people go in with a preconception that Cleric=healbot, and some players get really obsessed with optimized builds, but they tend to rather cliqueishly stick together in their snobby little guilds (as Nethermancer is indicating above!) that makes it easy to identify them. If you meet someone who's obsessed with some sort of warforged monk/sorcerer/rogue build....you might be looking at one of these optimizers.
In the end, all I can say is, "I see fewer optimizers and min/maxers in DDO than I do in the paper and pencil version of D&D," at least online in forums, which is frankly amazing.
Current MMOs: Rift, GW2, Defiance
Blog: http://realmsofchirak.blogspot.com (old school tabletop gaming and more)
It's a little known fact that GENERAL chat is an acronym:
Godawful
Evil
Nutjobs
Engaging in
Ribald
Asshattery and
Lewd behavior
Current MMOs: Rift, GW2, Defiance
Blog: http://realmsofchirak.blogspot.com (old school tabletop gaming and more)
on multi-classing
Its not always bad as someone as already mentioned. however, its much harder to achieve a good build through multi-classing because if your say a lvl 6 fighter level 6 rogue...you can't fight as well as a level 12 fighter nor can you perfrom rogue skills as well as a level 12 rogue (you see where I am going with this?). What makes a good multi-class build is synergies between certain classes and being able to make the most of them. Sometimes you can mix two classes that could work well together but you might spend one level too much in one or the other and suddenly you went from a hero to a zero. Character builds in DDO is an artform, one I haven't yet mastered myself.
Now as for the OP...
see my above statements about character building being a hard to master artform. that's really what it boils down to. Bad builds can lead to deaths that drain a parties resources. Potions, wands and scrolls are expensive if you have to use a ton of them just to keep your bard alive etc. Plus, there are only so many rest shrines that can only be used every 15 mins (i think thats the min limit). So if your parties healer or buffer is having to make up for your character build before tackling the big fights they may not have the mana they need to carry the party to victory afterward.
Does elitism suck, absolutely...but unfortunately sometimes its neccessary to a degree.
LOL!!!
You win the thread
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( o.o)
(")(")
**This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
The zerg runs are crazy... knock things down, run to the next, screw healer recycle time. If you're new to a mission and get lost they just leave you behind.
After a few of these, I just started soloing... then left out of boredom.