logical conclusion in brawl

grafh

ok i need help to end an age long debate about brawl

my brother feels that Final Destination is a neutral stage for all characters. i disagree because shiek, mario, lucario cant do thier wall slide or jump on Final Destination. my argument is that regardless how small a move might be, or how worth or worthless u feel the move is, if they are unable to execute it because of the way the stage is designed, it  cant be nuetral.

In retort he also says that since Fox cant do it either ( he doesnt have the ability to) its nuetral. another argument he made was that the move is a mobility issue and not stage related. he says its not like the wall slide/jump plays an important impact when the character is played because u can own without it. 

so what are your thoughts? is Final Destination a nuetral stage for all characters? do you feel that stages play a role in the outcome of your battles for certain characters?

Draenor

You are correct and here is why:

 

A character is designed to be balanced with other characters in a game like brawl, let's consider this a fact except in cases like Marth in Smash Bros. Melee who are obviously not balanced with the other characters in mind.

 

Now in a game like brawl, you have, let's say Shiek, who has a particular moveset that she is designed to be played with...in order to take full advantage of her abilities, you would need to be able to use all of these moves.  Characters that do not have these moves, let's say Fox in this case, were not designed to need them and therefore were put into the game without them.  Basically you have a character who winds up having more moves at his disposal on that stage, which gives them an inherent advantage because, if all things are equal on a "perfect" stage, then it means that every character will be able to use the moves that they were given by the developers in order to be balanced.

 

One could argue that a stage like final destination allows characters like Shiek to use their mobility more and that it counter balances an inability to use another move, however, there are other characters that are as fast or faster than Shiek (once again, I point to Fox) who will have no tradeoff and therefore an automatic advantage.

 

As a side note, I am traditionally a Shiek player in Melee and a Snake player in brawl...I find that Shiek takes the most skill to use properly and so I use her...I find that Marth takes the least skill to use in melee so I steer clear of players using him..In both games however, I have found that people who prefer Fox tend to be cocky ass holes for some reason...I've played dozens of people at this game  and I can't figure out why this phenomenon exists.

grafh

i agree. i dont know why fox players are so cocky. its not just him but ive seen others. thx for the opinion in the matter.

i feel that the game was made so there are no nuetral stages or fair stages for the characters. thats why there are so many stages, so some characters can have advantages and disadvantages on certain stages.

for example if im ike and hes fox, on final destination i feel fox has the advantage because of his speed and gun. he can run to edge of map, shoot across stage. now u can run towards him or jump towards him, but that will result in his upward kick or a dodge to other side of stage and simply repeating the process. on platform stages at least i dont have to run through his projectiles just to ge to him. same thing with kirby. on final destination he can turn into that brick and fall unchecked anywhere on the map. on stages with platforms, he cant perform this move anywhere due to different platforms. so a character can hide underneath while he is performing that move. this puts him at an advantage on final destination, but a disadvantage on stages with platforms.