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Why World of Warcraft is VERY sad.
mikethk
Member Posts: 105
Lets think. "What do i want in a MMO?"
Mostly ppl would answer:
"Free world, with dungeons and PVP and crafting. Unique gear and to travel around the world exploring."
So lets think of WOW.
"PVP Battlegrounds. Its oki. I see the idea of BG, its oki. BUT. You can enter them from whereever in the world, ANNDDD get back to where you where before." And its not like you fight in your world, you just fight. You fight ppl from another server. The BG has absolutely NOTHING to do with your massively world. It only has something to do with your grind to get better gear. So to sum up, BG are ONLY for getting better gear. (Ofc. its also fun, but the meaning in fighting makes NO sense).
Oki now dungeon. You can also enter dungeon from everywhere. And get back again. You play cross server so why talk to your team members. No reason, your there to grind not to make an army. No actually plan about doing dungeons in WOW its just there for grinding gear. And ofc. it can be fun. But still, NO reason at all. . . Now they made it so you can only loot the gear that fits you. so as rogue you cant loot hunter gear. . . So even more, its just to grind. You cant be the sad person who steal others stuff, or you cant be the epic warrior because you just a 1 minute show in the dungeon. . . Even more sad things. When entering a dungeon in WOW you enter a server. Theres a server for each group. So you can actually be 100 teams in the same dungeon. And now its cross server, so to enter a dungeon in wow is just a "minigame" with no impact of the world.
My point is, this is NOT a cool game to me. And for many of us out there thinking of a cool mmo and what it should contain, WOW dossent contain ANYTHING of this. . . Oki. arenas and BG are fun, but it dossent make any change if you win it or not. It dossent change the world. . . Sadness i would say. Wow is a project to get most players. They hired specialist in addictive gameplay and implemented THAT into the gameplay.
WOW aint a world made for being in an adventure. Its made for us, me, you and others to pay the most money. You will never be anything unique in WOW and thats sad. Cause there are MMO's out there that actually offers these options.
MO, Darkfall, Eve and prop more. So when your done with WOW, start playing the real stuff.
Comments
I think WoW set the sad standard of game design with skinner's box as core mechanics. Really ever since WoW hit the scene, all the other companies have been designing with Skinner's box psycology in mind. WoW is so good at it, that it could probably train monkeys. Trained response will only make a gamer regret playing in the first place once they quit.
"Mostly ppl would answer:
"Free world, with dungeons and PVP and crafting. Unique gear and to travel around the world exploring.""
And you know this how?
And even if true, the rest of your WoW basher of a post is your opinion projected on others.
How many subs does WoW have?
Most everything you quoted is pretty much why I and many other people like it.
Pvp is one on our terms not someone else's. The battlegrounds are fun, that is the real reward, the gear is just icing.
I can get a group withiin minutes virtually any time I want. Dungeons are fun, but waiting for a group isn't. People talk in them all the time. That hasn't changed from EQ days, some talk others don't. The point of it is I get to choose how I play and don't have to wait for it. In EQ there were hours long waits, now it's 15 minutes for dps, and 4 seconds for tanks/healers.
I do think it is a fun game. It is one of the only games that really lets me choose how I want to play. Most other games it is grind, grind, grind. In WoW I have a whole variety of choices and don't have to wait to do any of them. When I'm bored with one, hop to the other, no hours waiting for it, no grind before it's usefull, you just do it.
My time is somewhat valuable to me, and while all games are time wasters, I want to waste as little as possible doing dull things before I get to have fun.
I feel adenture in it all the time, I still explore in it all the time. I've been too many of those other games and actually still do play some of them. Unfortunately they are normally grind at something for awhile till you can do something usefull than have fun.
Venge Sunsoar
You say WoW is sad? Hmmmm...
MO and Darkfall are examples of good MMOs? MO is not worth the retail box and should score no more than 2 out of 10. It's very buggy and lackluster.
Darkfall - it's a gankfest with some ridiculous skill grind thrown in. Did I mention that its UI is horrendous? But you know what, at least it has some very fluid action! Ooh, wait...
{Mod Edit}
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
There is a big difference between most people here and most MMO players. Most of us here started with games like The realm, Meridian 59, Ultima online or Everquest.
Most MMO players however started with Wow and that is what they like.
As long as there is alternatives don't you really have any reason to be sad because MMO vets and general players don't like the same games.
I don't know about that Loke. I will agree with the most people here and most players idea.
But I've been playing MMO's since Kunark EQ, so over a decade now and like these modern games better than the old ones. And I don't think I'm in a small camp of people that think that way. Just a small camp on these forums
Venge Sunsoar
@Venge ;
If you like WoW sooooo much why are you constantly on Mmorpg.com and not playing WoW ?!
Because I like doing other things as well. And one of them is engaging in discussions on forums. Pretty simple actually. That and my sub ran out a week or so ago and I haven't bothered to pick up a new time card yet.
Right now I"m playing Istaria and Vanguard as well. When I get bored of them I likely will go pick up a new timecard.
Venge
edit: You know that most people enjoying doing more than one thing right? And so engage in more than one thing.
Before WoW, grinding wasn't a bad thing. That's what there was. that's what MMO's were about. grinding with friends. Building a unique community per server, developing and CUSTOMIZING your characters to be your own, and not a cookie cutter so that everyone couldn't tell eachother apart. We enjoyed the grind because it didn't feel like a grind. It felt like tearing $hit up with your friends and having a blast and interracting with others as they passed.
@Venge ;
Awful funny that Vanguard is the spiritual sucessor of EQ yet you seem to vehemently despise EQ? What about WoW? Tired of the same old same old =p?
Cause the two are mutually exclusive. But I hear you. Why would someone who likes/does not hate WoW be on these forums? Amirite?
I loved WoW but got bored of it. But no other MMO managed to keep me for longer than 1-2 months. So now I decided that MMOs suck, and I play non-MMOs because they are fun
Although this raises the good question, why am I even reading these boards.... No reason I guess
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
OP wow is sad for YOU. So you dont like wow..so what. Millions of other like it and play it.
Im just hoping DCUO gets me off the WoW sauce.
@ Fivoroth
Hates a bit strong a word for my feelings on this subject. Being abjectly disillusioned fits better! I have to agree with Gamer1982 that right now Minecraft holds my interest more so than any mmorpg has for years and somehow that just doesn't sit right with me.
Reading the OP's post, I think he doesn't like the feeling that the world is a lobby with instances dungeon and battleground minigames. While I get that we wants a more immersive world, and less seperation. I really don't think he realizes the pros and cons of doing things differently.
No BGs, and open world PVP only? been there. I couldn't get quests done for a week in Tarren Mill, because a hundred people were fighting there damn near 24/7.
Seamless dungeons? Been there too. In EQ I even waited in line for 36 hours straight for a chance to kill a named mob, for a drop.
He needs to think out his opinion more, and stop expecting single player RPG experience in an MMO. It just doesn't happen.
Yes, MMOs had this vision of being virtual worlds. But somewhere along the way this vision was lost and so was the fun factor. It's really sad that some random puzzle games on steam which are sold for 1-2 bucks are more entertaining than current MMOs.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Not true at all. I had fun in EQ, I have more now than I did in EQ. I played EQ for years. I would never do something for years that I didn't like doing. And while some things in Vanguard are very eqish (the challenge in the game, the nice exploration, the diversity in roles) it is actually pretty different. For one there is no need at all, ever, to grind.
I haven't ever felt inclined to stay in one spot and repeatedly go after the mobs in the area. Very very different from EQ. That and the sheer number of quests there is makes it again very very different from EQ.
Standing in one spot for hours pulling mobs. No thanks. No need to do that anymore thank god.
and yes IMO grinding has always been a bad thing, even in EQ. Repetitive can be ok and that isn't a grind, but the minute it becomes dull and monotonous that is a grind, and that is horrible gameplay design.
In EQ I played a bard mostly, about as ungrindy, unmonotonous (if thas a word) and unrepetitive as you can get. Fits me perfectly.
Venge
edit: and then the crafting, and gathering of materials is completely different from EQ, and then diplomacy. So actually I think there is far differences between EQ and Vanguard than there are are similarities.
edit: and in EQ there was no customization, every monk, paladin, necro... were the same as every other monk, paladin, necro...
@Daitengu ;
Vanguard has seamless dungeons. Maybe the OP isn't as out of his mind as he would seem at first lol!
I'm looking at DCUO too, it looks pretty interesting actually. In a couple months if things are still smooth I just might get that one.
Here we go, how many subs....
Can you WoW fanbois come up with a REAL arguement? All the sub numbers prove is more people play that game. I mean this post made sense until the" nah nah na boo boo my games got more subs than yours does" crap. It was all the OP's opinion, but guess what? It IS his opinion and he IS entitled to it even if he does not like your chosen game with all its subs!
There's what 1billion plus people living in communist China, so I guess that means subjigating your citizens to abusive rules and human right violations is the right way to govern since they have more people than any other country. That makes no sense and neither does this how many subs does WoW have stupidity. It's an arguement that is used because truth be told, those that use it have nothing else better to say.
If you like WoW, GREAT! Play WoW! If someone posts that they don't GREAT! They don't have to like it because it has more subs than any other game. If 12.5 million people started playing Wizzard 101 I guess that would be the greatest MMO ever created and noone better say anything bad about it then huh?
Well it would make it a fun game to those playing it.
edit: And really it is kind of disingenious to compare people voluntarily playing and paying for a game to those who are born in a certain location and dealt a rough life card. Even if both have large populations the two have those populations for vastly different reasons.
Venge brother. Calm down! Please take a moment to read your own forum signature! The Grind is in your mind as far as EQ went! Just because you played EQ in a very very grindy way doesn't mean you HAD TO! It was probably the fastest way to level but not the only way. I was one of those EQ players that spent time soloing a large part of my epic and the other awesome quests EQ did have (Coldain Prayer Shawl anyone?). It didn't have quantity of quests it had quality and alot of people miss that or skipped over every EQ quest (your loss).
WoW the predecessor of EQ seems to have stagnated the evolution of the mmorpg genre rather than perpetuating it in many respects. This is my opinion but many people on this site share a similar line of thought on this subject.
You say you played a Bard in EQ and that's great. One of the most powerful outdoor soloers (possibly indoor with charm) in EQ and yet you choose to group grind? Also does WoW have any class even half as complex as your EQ bard? I know they don't and so do you! This is what I mean by stagnation and if you take the time to look there are many instances where this is the case. All WoW did for the genre was make it extremely accessible to all ages/creeds/game times! This is great and all but WTB a new game for the rest of us there that aren't content with what WoW offers.
LOL it's hilarious how you WoW haters assume someone who defends it must be a fanboy.
I am bored with WoW. I still play, but far less than I used to. There's currently, IMHO, NOTHING
that's overall a better game.
My response was to the OP and the grand assumptions he was making regarding what people want in a game and
that this rant ... er, thread, is specifically directed at WoW.
Any game with a lot of subs obviously has what those people, by and large, want. ANY game, not just WoW.
What if WoW's filled with a bunch of people like yourself who are fairly bored with it but don't have any other alternatives? What this post is asking for, in part, is that very alternative! Developers need to start taking the genre in a different direction or else all the new games that are WoW+ will become boring even to the WoW fans like yourself.