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Rift and Race
VirusDancer
Member UncommonPosts: 3,649
While the key separation of the Guardians and the Defiants will be religion vs. science (though it tends to best not to try to discuss the obvious there because people are unable to separate Real Life and Fantasy), something that bothers me is the racial separation in the game. It is not based on species - actual races, etc (the classic one that comes to mind is Human vs. Orc).
Mathosian and Eth are both Humans - yet, the two tribes are distinct in their "racial" appearance. The Mathosian appear as your typical North American/European "white" while the Eth vary from Middle Eastern to North African appearance..."non-white".
High Elves "white" and Kelari "non-white".
Dwarves "white" and Bahmi "non-white".
There is an old thread here (decided not to necro it) where users expressed the hope that RIFT would not follow in Warhammer's "white" hero footsteps. Well, it has not. But what Trion has done concerns me all the same.
"All Mathosians look the same."
"All Eth look the same."
"All the people that look like the Mathosians believe the same thing."
"All the people that look like the Eth believe the same thing."
Yes, it is just a game. Yet, it is a game where they have basically formed two lines based on appearance and assigned beliefs/values to them. Racism comes to mind.
It is 2011. Even UO accounted for racial diversity.
The only "Humans" fighting for the Guardians are the "white" Mathosian. The only "Humans" fighting for the Defiants are the "non-white" Eth.
You will see "Human" NPC Defiants that look like they are Mathosian. Though, the same could not really be said about "Human" NPC Guardians that look like they are Eth.
But still, fine - on small scales - we have had things along those lines: US vs. Mexico, US vs. Japan, UK vs. India, Europeans vs. Native Americans, Europeans vs. South Americans, etc, etc, etc. If one were to focus there, one could say that those fighting pretty much looked alike and believed alike, no?
But then look at something like WWII. Japanese & Germans vs. US, Europe, China, etc.
Were the game just Mathosian vs. Eth, well - that would be one thing. But it is not.
Mathosian, High Elves, Dwarves - "white races"
vs.
Eth, Kelari, Bahmi - "non-white races"
It does not take much for it to click as RIFT being:
"The white people chosen by the Gods vs. the non-white people that turned their backs on the Gods and brought about the end of the world..."
If you have ever watched any of the clips with the team from Trion in it...well, that is where it gets to be perhaps reading too much into it.
TLDR: Would it have hurt to have had a little more racial diversity and options for character creation?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Comments
Considering you can make some guardian races, literally black (as in the human race black not the actual color)
And defiant doesnt even have brown as an option, its purple and blue.
I really have no idea where you are going with this.
No yeah the guardian high elfs have not dark brown option, but there are the Eth, which are a human race, with color scales ranging from European, to middle eastern, to sub africn.
Well i get where he's coming from the Defiant Humans are kinda tribal looking. I've made pale skin Eths on defiant.
Sure you can't make them corpse white but you could get pretty close.
I honestly dont see the whole thing as an issue. I mean i dont log into a game and instanty check if the factions have different skin tones...
But i guess for the people that do, maybe trion should give a few super pale skin tones for the Eth. just so they dont have to deal with the racism topic, even though its kinda out there for a video game.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I was thinking the opposite actually. The 'Middle East' in our society is the home of religions and ' N.Europe' the home-since the Enlightenment- of science. I was thinking Rift turned this on it's head which was sort of refreshing.
This has nothing to do with racism... Can't we have a freaking game with different species?
Wow, the things that go on in some ppls heads. Dude, when I logged in this game I wasn't even worrying about that and the thought never crossed my mind. Why is it so prevelant in yours?
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
The darker skinned races of the Defiant aren’t the bad guys in any sense. It’s a matter of perspective, the end of the world was triggered by the king of the white Malthosians, and the Defiant from the future know the Guardians are wrong as the Vigil will fail to protect Telara from Regulos.
Besides there are many that see the religious faction as either less cool, as they lack the gadgets or bad-ass races, or as self-righteous, (again due to comparisons with reality), so to many players the Defiant are the underdogs, and last time I checked also the most popular faction.
The Eth it is clear, (especially from the architecture of Defiant buildings in Meridian), are Saracen or Ottoman, and represent the last remnant of a far superior civilisation, that sacrificed itself for the good of Telara. If anything this may help to build a positive imagine of at least historical Arab civilisation.
Also if you can't pose a counter argument or a lucid view try to keep your retarded comments to yourself.
ITS A GAME SERIOUSLY.. ppl have to much time if they can think about such things in a fantasy world in an game.
@SnailTrail - no, you cannot. You cannot even do a deep bronzed tan for the Mathosians. The High Elves share the same skin tones as the Mathosians. You can approach a bronze tan with the Dwarves, but in the end all three races are still "white." Yes, the Kelari and Bahmi offer Purple and Blue. That is an argument against what I said...how? The hairstyles for the Bahmi make you think of what, eh? As to where I was going with it, I stated that. It is the one thing that bothers me about the game.
Think of Guardians and Defiants in terms of the Rebels and the Empire from SWG. Two opposing sides, yet players could choose different races for either side. Think of EVE with the various races and bloodlines, but you will still see them fighting for different causes. Anarchy Online - once again, the race was not specifically tied to a particular side. Even WoW, which splits races into different sides - does so with the entire race. All human player characters are Alliance. Yet there, you can make humans of various skin tones - etc. The same goes for Orcs, etc, etc.
TLDR: You cannot make a Black Guardian nor can you make a White Defiant.
@RockGod99 - was not a case of logging into RIFT to check for racial diversity. It was more a case of spotting that stain on a tie - once you see it, it is hard not to see it. RIFT is the game that I have been waiting for - for a long time now. In some areas, it is presenting the route that I believe that WoW should have taken - a route that woud have made WoW a better game. The only thing that has prevented me from doing my pre-order has been trying to decide whether I want to do the Retail CE (and if so, from which vendor because of the vendor specific items) or the Digital CE. Sure, it is only a $20 difference - but money is a lot tighter these days. If I had not wasted money on Cata, it would have been a no brainer - and I would have just been stuck trying to decide which vendor to get it from, lol.
@Liltawen - actually both Science and Religion have both been heavily influenced from that region.
@sungodra - different species is not the issue. Eth and Mathosian are not different species. They are different tribes of the same species. What you state does not address my concerns in any way... did you read it? It is my fault, eh? I should have done better with the TLDR?
@zevni78 - I feel that both sides are the bad guides because of how narrowminded and fanatical both sides are. It kind of makes them one dimensional. The Defiants built the machines that started the end of the world. The Guardians destroyed the machines that might have prevented the end of the world. The Guardian Ascendants are comprised of Souls the Gods have chosen to fight once more. The Defiant Ascendants are comprised of stolen Souls - technology used to rip them from the ether. The Guardians obviously come off as repressive. Neither side are the Good Guys, and this is definitely interesting. Depending on the server, it will probably be the same as it is elsewhere - there will be various amounts of faction imbalance. One of the key things that people noticed was that Guardians Level 1-9 was filled with more discussion on WoW than it was over in Defiants Level 1-9. More than a few people ended up rolling Defiant just to get away from it.
@Relampago - I guess that is part of what kind of threw me off on it, considering how much else is there...it seems like it would have been something rather simple. It is not something that would prevent me from getting the game, but it just struck me as odd considering the evolution the rest of the game shows.
@Otomox - some people think beyond the speed of light...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Sorry VirusDancer but I think you are making a Blaster out of a Master on this one.
Champions are the atypical fantasy line up of Temperate Climate Humans, Elves, Dwarves. The Defiant seem to be Tropical to Sub Tropical Humans, Dark Elves, and a big rough and tough race that could be considered half giants or orcs. Really nothing new. Neither race is presented as EVIL simply as enemies with different cultures and beliefs, who don't like each other very much. Both races are battling the real forces of evil to save their world. Unfortunatly they are unable to put aside their differences and unify against the real enemy.
Sort of like in real life.
Sort of like this thread, where someone has to take offense where no offense was intended and go and create strife and conflict where no conflict was warrated.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Well, they have dwarves. While your post is intended as sarcasm, why do avatars in computer games all have to be super fit, super gorgeous, muscle freaks? Are there no slackers in the realm of fantasy? Well besides those chubby lil hobbits anyway.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Ummm, am I the only one that can make a white defiant then?? Not that I care to, being blonde and Polish I get more than enough being called 'white' IRL. But anyway, yeah I do have a white defiant character, 2 actually - my Bahmi female is about as white a butch as you can make, but she has the stripper dance down pat so who cares right? She gots da booty to go wit it too.
The skin tones for the Defiant races do not allow such, much as the skin tones for the Guardian races do not allow the opposite...
...it is a definite quirk to the game.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
The irony in your post is beyond belief...
In all honesty by being so politically correct about this issue not only are you cheapening the legitimate issues of equality among all ethnicities throughout the world, your wasting your time.
If you feel so strongly about racism, writing 500 word posts on a gaming forum isn't the way to help.
I am not looking for Trion to address real world issues of racism. I am wondering why they added such obvious stereotypical fodder to their game in this day and age. Such a simple thing left out when they have done so much.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
As a new father this is important, and it is not cheapening of the issue.
When my son grows up i hope he isnt forced to play games where he cannot play a pious protagonist that looks like him or her.
Imagery in play affects self image later in life, it was long ago proven by psychologists.
We have the technology nowadays to enable this there is no excuse.
Its their world, they can design it anyway they want to.
Don't like it? Don't play it. Make your statement with your wallet. Bitchin on a forum isn't gonna change a thing.
________________________________
Everything born must die. All that is, will come to ruin. This is the essence of Doom. So sayeth the Doomsayer.
NWO I knew it.
As opposed to perhaps offering additional skin tones and customizations for the feature sliders? I mean, c'mon - not talking about massive changes in the least nor anything that would affect the lore of the game.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Those studies were done with dolls, not with video games. They involved Barbies and Kens and the like, which were traditionally white. The difference is there were no dolls that looked like elves, dwarves, gnomes, etc. By your logic, there should be no race at all, because no one will ever be an elf and would grow up ashamed that they're not unnaturally thin with pointy ears and spells to fling. Reality check: this isn't a game about humans, it's a game about races that don't exist in life.
Mountains out of mole hills. I can't speak for every person of color, but I can say that for myself, I don't see this as an issue. Didn't even cross my mind. If you want race to stop being an issue, stop making it one.
If my child grows up self-conscious because he's not a spikey-haired blue Avatar-ripoff, he's got issues with more than self-esteem. Furthermore, my human was brown-skinned. Not very dark, mind you, I made him tanned like I am, a pleasant little puerto rican complexion.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
'Mano you are missing the point and actually shot your argument in the foot with this reply. Yes there were "exotic" dolls to play with besides Barbies and Ken's like fairy dolls as well. If a child decides to take on the persona of a fairy or a blue skinned avatar thats great the issue is not that they will have self esteem issues because they are not a blue skinned spikey hair avatar, but if they want to model themselves as a positive role model like a barbie or ken, or a pious protagonist, but cant because there arent shades to represent them then it is a problem.
As a darker skinned Puerto Rican i hope you see that your view isnt a panacea and there is a legit issue underlying this.
You dont want race being an issue? Learn to respect Bomba and the people that make it as an art form dont act as if it, and they, dont exist. Race will no longer be an issue when we learn to respect one another not when we imagine it doesnt exist.
And this surprises you? Just watch the movie 300. White honorable Europeans (Greeks, yet all Spartans are white) against the dark, monstrous Middle Easterns (Persians with a black king, yet there are no records of black people being Persian kings). Western media culture is heavily tainted by racism.
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the guardians are the bad guys in my opinion. look at the new trailer it shows the bad side of the guardians.
it is worth noting that if race rhetoric is so manifested in our art (thus artists) that it is even more serious an issue outside of art itself.
but is it's presence in our art on behalf of an agenda? or is it because we've been growing as a society in the race garden for so long that even the basic perceptions now continue to climb the lattice of race out of near necessity or path of least resistance? or is it a means of reaching the people who would participate in this very forum topic? or is it an innocent exhibition of one of many possible conceptions chosen out of a limited, but not twisted, imagination? or is it a naive, crass iteration of westernization?
or is it the KKK infiltrating our games now!?
OP brings up a very good point here - Both "man" races should be merged and just offered as tribes instead. Each tribe can be a mix of the racial appearances.
Someone should get RIFT working on this right away.