I've expressed my negative views of Rift before (not enough to make myself known as one of the resident Rift haters on this site, but still), but ultimately I hope it does succeed. It's better than most if not all of the WoW-style MMO's, including WoW itself in some regards.
I also think Rift is important from the big-box corporations recognizing PC gaming in general as important. It used to be that so many games started on the PC, and were then ported to consoles. Then it went to simultaneous development, and now more and more often great games with online content are only on the consoles.
Rift is PC based big budget game with no Console development so far as anyone can tell, and has the most games industry hype that my recent (admittedly addled) memory can remember. In the minds of the suits, this might be the ONLY game to come out since WOW. We all know there are other games that have come out, in some cases great games, but none of them has had the staying power, and many have been fantastic money pits. Wall street and private investors need to know that the games we love can make money, or they wont be investing in the developers that make the games we love.
I don't know about you, but I want a new, innovative game sooner rather than later. If RIFT fails, I fear it will be later. In that case, I may not be playing MMOs for much longer.
Off-topic east/west crap:
Eastern games have better boobs, somewhat better graphics, and much more realistic character modeling (sans-boobs). Western games seem to think that looking like Wallace&Grommit is perfectly fine (I kid, I kid... sort of).
Western style games, however, have a much more immersive experience, crafting, questing, dungeons, and most everything else seem more well done in the western games I've played.
Eastern games have better PvP mechanics and faction warring, IMO, but more often fail in the PvE as above. (No one seems to have noticed that RIFT has gotten this right, but I don't know if you're the pvp type)
So many of the eastern games fail because they're pay2win, I mean, F2p. I'm sure anyone who has tried an eastern style f2p game can attest to this. There's nothing like losing to some kids $100 allowance being dumped into game cards every month, and because of that these same annoying, spoiled, ass-hats become guild leaders.
I'm currently playing LOTRO, and I have to tell you, it's been a joy, not because of the amazing and innovative play (which it's not) but because I haven't met one person on there that has been an immature fail of a human being. So, in the end, the east/west divide for me comes down to older people who've played DnD and old-style RPG games, and silly Anime-weaned teenagers who only know they like to Kill people in CoD, so why shouldn't an MMORPG be the same thing?
Final thought: The only new or innovative upcoming game I've even heard mention of is GW2, for realz dogz. /troll ... :P
We will always have eastern games,the only ones who always try to innovate.
Personally,i could care less if the western mmorpg market dies,they haven't made a good game since.....well,a lot of years.
Name a recent "innovative" eastern MMORPG.
Don't worry, i'll wait.
I have to agree with the OP about Trion though, they seem to have their heads on straight and I sincerely hope for the success of Rift. It has a ton of potential as well.
Aion,flight pvp.
Tera,no auto-aiming.
Recent western mmos,,AoC,War,Lotro,all the same crap.
No auto-aiming?
Age of Conan. Tabula Rasa. Auto Assault.
Aion is all you have? Really? Another quest based MMO? Quest quest quest quest until the mid 30's, grind. Then roam around and gank. You can PvP on the Z-axis now, but I guess that's innovative to you. How sad.
You are probably just a noob that thinks because you kill mobs without a quest having to tell you to do so, it's somehow more difficult or less handheld.
You have no basis for argument. In any of these threads.
Aion has flight pvp,that is new.
It may be new to you, but it is not a new concept.
Age of conan combat is a lie,and casters don't have anything new.
Sorry, while I do not like the game, it's combat isn't a lie. If you just didn't have blind hate for everything western you'd realize what you just said about AoC is a lie.
Tabula rasa is from NCSOFT,lol.
In Tera you have to aim your skills and spells,another innovative mmorpg.
Sorry, again, just because you aren't either old enough to have played them or came to MMOs late doesn't mean what past western games have done doesn't exist. You probably need to do more research before you start talking. Ahseron's Call, 1st generation WESTERN MMO was full of combat and magic that you had to aim and that other players and NPCs could dodge.
FFXIV,player driven economy,you can play gatherers and crafters as real classes,just like the warriors and mages.
Again, just because you didn't play them doesn't mean they didn't exist. SWG AND EvE had player driven economies way before FFXIV was even thought of. You could indeed play non-combat classes as "real" classes in both (and still can in EvE; The NGE for SWG took away that ability for the most (90%) part.)
There is no way you can argue this,the eastern market trys to innovate,the western market keeps making wow clones.
The only thing the eastern market tries to innovate is another angle from which to force you to an item mall to buy stuff.
This was too easy,try again.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I really wish Rift well. I dont know if i will end up playing it my self but from what ive seen from the beta and heard from other people, the company seems like they have their heads on straight. I hope it will succeed for the sake of the genre as well. Alot of games have been pretty train wreckish lately.
My personal take on success of a game is if it can maintain a sizable population to keep doors open and production on it profitable. Games dont need 3 million players to be successful i mean look at EVE online, it doesnt have an enormous playerbase yet it still does well. It caters towards a certain fanbase and that is why i think it succeeds. A game fails because it tries to be too many things at once.
About LOTRO, It may not be crazy innovative but I do not think it is a failure. It caters to people that love LOTR and has a mature community, it is also very PVE driven which i think helps the develpers hone in on one area of the game instead of trying to balance both PVE and PVP. The community in LOTRO id personally have to say is one of the best features of the game.
The biggest thing i think people need to understand in the West VS East drama is that both audiences have different values, ideals and opinions. Eastern games tend to have a more mob grind oriented play while western games are more quest/loot whoring. Western gamers like Western games because they are catered towards that type of game style. The same thing can be said of Eastern games. Both styles are great in their own way and I think they should both be respected for that. If you like Western games more then Eastern games and vice versa thats cool, doesnt mean you should bash on a game just because it doesnt play they way You want it too.
Anyways this is all my own opinion. opinions are not facts and should not be taken as such. opinions also do not harm people and should not be bashed if they do not coincide with your own.
We will always have eastern games,the only ones who always try to innovate.
Personally,i could care less if the western mmorpg market dies,they haven't made a good game since.....well,a lot of years.
Name a recent "innovative" eastern MMORPG.
Don't worry, i'll wait.
I have to agree with the OP about Trion though, they seem to have their heads on straight and I sincerely hope for the success of Rift. It has a ton of potential as well.
Actually I think Vindictus brought some interesting ideas to combat. But other than that I haven't really seen any more innovation from eastern mmos than western mmos.
We will always have eastern games,the only ones who always try to innovate.
Personally,i could care less if the western mmorpg market dies,they haven't made a good game since.....well,a lot of years.
Name a recent "innovative" eastern MMORPG.
Don't worry, i'll wait.
I have to agree with the OP about Trion though, they seem to have their heads on straight and I sincerely hope for the success of Rift. It has a ton of potential as well.
Aion,flight pvp.
FFXIV,player driven economy,gatherers and crafters are classes,just like warriors and mages.
Tera,no auto-aiming.
Recent western mmos,AoC,War,Lotro,all the same crap.
FFXIV---biggest bomb ever
Aion---lost most of its base after first couple of months and now has less than half the servers
Tera---not released yet and I believe they did add target locking
So innovation does not mean people will play it. Being different for the sake of different is also not always innovative if its tedious and a hinderence.
What? Aion is right now the second mmo with more subs worldwide,around 4 million.
Tera doesn't have target lock,there are only 3 or 4 skills in game with that,but they are for healing and 1 dps skill of the ranger.
We will always have eastern games,the only ones who always try to innovate.
Personally,i could care less if the western mmorpg market dies,they haven't made a good game since.....well,a lot of years.
Name a recent "innovative" eastern MMORPG.
Don't worry, i'll wait.
I have to agree with the OP about Trion though, they seem to have their heads on straight and I sincerely hope for the success of Rift. It has a ton of potential as well.
Aion,flight pvp.
FFXIV,player driven economy,gatherers and crafters are classes,just like warriors and mages.
Tera,no auto-aiming.
Recent western mmos,AoC,War,Lotro,all the same crap.
lol what you listed is hardly innovateing.. And the fact that you have FFXIV and innovating in a single sentence is beyond me.. You wanna see a player driven market, go check out EvE.. You wanna see a barley functioning market (having player stalls dosnt make a market "player driven") then go check out FFXIV.. And tera is on the list because of no auto aiming? That's been done before..
With a list like that i can say almost all western games are innovateing -
WoW - drops loads of ez l00t
AoC - has boobs at character creation
WAR - has tons of teh pvp and is player driven pvp
LoTRo - is MMORPG made off Lord Of The Rings zomg
c'mon...
Yeah,it's been done before,REALLY? omg!
You know,there is a difference beetween 2 or 3 games with the same mechanic,than 30 mmorpgs with the same old feature from wow.
And it doesn't matter,if you haven't played Eve,FFXIV has a lot of new things.
If you played 1 western game,you have played them all,yeah maybe they have 1 or 2 new features,but not core mechanics.
I'am not defending western MMORPG's.. I'am just saying that EVERYTHING you said can be said the same for eastern market.. Almost everyone knows, eastern MMORPG = GRINDERS.. And you've proven it you're self by posting that list of "innovateing" eastern MMORPGs.. FFXIV = grind, theres not even quests, you just group up and grind on mobs.. AION = grind, trust me, i hit lvl 50 before this new AION 2.0 stuff, i was first cleric on my server to do so, and i did so by grinding the same elite mobs over and over again in idratu.. TERA = still in beta but since its being westernized by a lot of the same people who westernized AION its safe to say that it, too, will be a grind.
Thanks for proving my point.
"If it's asian,there is only grind",you probably never played ony of those games.
FFXIV has levequests,local leves,faction leves,story quests and class quests,you are just lying.
I have a Ranger lvl 50 in aion without doing any grind,just quests,i never ran out of quests.
Tera it's too easy,there are people at lvl 40+ after 3 days.
As i said, i had a cleric in AION.. I played it at launch, before 2.0; back when you ran out of quests at lv 35 and you're option was to run instances or grind elites in idratu.. And everyone knew grinding elites was quicker, and sadly, dropped better items.. I doubt you played at launch or you'd know what i'am talking about; as even the asmos were jealous of our grinding spots..
The only reason you hit 50 through questing was because in AION 2.0 (after tons of complaints) they spent more time westernizeing AION.. In the eastern version its pay by the hour and more grindy then AION was for us at launch, the only reason its hanging on right now is BECAUSE it was WESTERNIZED.. You can hardly call it a eastern game anyways because had you played the korean version of AION you'd know how much of grind it was to get bloodstains and you'd know that the quests were just lore holders.. How do you think we even figured how to use the landscape trick to get into idratu? Because in the korea version people do it all the time..
Same thing can be said for FFXIV.. The reason why it failed so much is because its poor westernization.. Puting leve quests on a timer because they had no content.. Story quests that happen after every 10hrs of gameplay? The story quests are sparse at best.. You think im lieing? Go read some reviews and see for you're self.. Go check out the FFXIV forums, people forming grinding groups as the quickest means to get XP.. FFXIV will fail if not westernized better, thats why they got rid of the former lead manager.. You are lieing to you're self if you said that you never had to grind a mob inbetween leve quests cooldowns for xp when FFXIV launched.
So far you only proveing you like WESTERNIZED MMORPG's..
Currently Playing: Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
We will always have eastern games,the only ones who always try to innovate.
Personally,i could care less if the western mmorpg market dies,they haven't made a good game since.....well,a lot of years.
Name a recent "innovative" eastern MMORPG.
Don't worry, i'll wait.
I have to agree with the OP about Trion though, they seem to have their heads on straight and I sincerely hope for the success of Rift. It has a ton of potential as well.
Aion,flight pvp.
FFXIV,player driven economy,gatherers and crafters are classes,just like warriors and mages.
Tera,no auto-aiming.
Recent western mmos,AoC,War,Lotro,all the same crap.
lol what you listed is hardly innovateing.. And the fact that you have FFXIV and innovating in a single sentence is beyond me.. You wanna see a player driven market, go check out EvE.. You wanna see a barley functioning market (having player stalls dosnt make a market "player driven") then go check out FFXIV.. And tera is on the list because of no auto aiming? That's been done before..
With a list like that i can say almost all western games are innovateing -
WoW - drops loads of ez l00t
AoC - has boobs at character creation
WAR - has tons of teh pvp and is player driven pvp
LoTRo - is MMORPG made off Lord Of The Rings zomg
c'mon...
Yeah,it's been done before,REALLY? omg!
You know,there is a difference beetween 2 or 3 games with the same mechanic,than 30 mmorpgs with the same old feature from wow.
And it doesn't matter,if you haven't played Eve,FFXIV has a lot of new things.
If you played 1 western game,you have played them all,yeah maybe they have 1 or 2 new features,but not core mechanics.
I'am not defending western MMORPG's.. I'am just saying that EVERYTHING you said can be said the same for eastern market.. Almost everyone knows, eastern MMORPG = GRINDERS.. And you've proven it you're self by posting that list of "innovateing" eastern MMORPGs.. FFXIV = grind, theres not even quests, you just group up and grind on mobs.. AION = grind, trust me, i hit lvl 50 before this new AION 2.0 stuff, i was first cleric on my server to do so, and i did so by grinding the same elite mobs over and over again in idratu.. TERA = still in beta but since its being westernized by a lot of the same people who westernized AION its safe to say that it, too, will be a grind.
Thanks for proving my point.
"If it's asian,there is only grind",you probably never played ony of those games.
FFXIV has levequests,local leves,faction leves,story quests and class quests,you are just lying.
I have a Ranger lvl 50 in aion without doing any grind,just quests,i never ran out of quests.
Tera it's too easy,there are people at lvl 40+ after 3 days.
As i said, i had a cleric in AION.. I played it at launch, before 2.0; back when you ran out of quests at lv 35 and you're option was to run instances or grind elites in idratu.. And everyone knew grinding elites was quicker, and sadly, dropped better items.. I doubt you played at launch or you'd know what i'am talking about; as even the asmos were jealous of our grinding spots..
The only reason you hit 50 through questing was because in AION 2.0 (after tons of complaints) they spent more time westernizeing AION.. In the eastern version its pay by the hour and more grindy then AION was for us at launch, the only reason its hanging on right now is BECAUSE it was WESTERNIZED.. You can hardly call it a eastern game anyways because had you played the korean version of AION you'd know how much of grind it was to get bloodstains and you'd know that the quests were just lore holders.. How do you think we even figured how to use the landscape trick to get into idratu? Because in the korea version people do it all the time..
Same thing can be said for FFXIV.. The reason why it failed so much is because its poor westernization.. Puting leve quests on a timer because they had no content.. Story quests that happen after every 10hrs of gameplay? The story quests are sparse at best.. You think im lieing? Go read some reviews and see for you're self.. Go check out the FFXIV forums, people forming grinding groups as the quickest means to get XP.. FFXIV will fail if not westernized better, thats why they got rid of the former lead manager.. You are lieing to you're self if you said that you never had to grind a mob inbetween leve quests cooldowns for xp when FFXIV launched.
So far you only proveing you like WESTERNIZED MMORPG's..
No,i played at launch and i never ran out of quests.
That's what happens when you don't skip content to grind elites.
We will always have eastern games,the only ones who always try to innovate.
Personally,i could care less if the western mmorpg market dies,they haven't made a good game since.....well,a lot of years.
Name a recent "innovative" eastern MMORPG.
Don't worry, i'll wait.
I have to agree with the OP about Trion though, they seem to have their heads on straight and I sincerely hope for the success of Rift. It has a ton of potential as well.
Aion,flight pvp.
FFXIV,player driven economy,gatherers and crafters are classes,just like warriors and mages.
Tera,no auto-aiming.
Recent western mmos,AoC,War,Lotro,all the same crap.
lol what you listed is hardly innovateing.. And the fact that you have FFXIV and innovating in a single sentence is beyond me.. You wanna see a player driven market, go check out EvE.. You wanna see a barley functioning market (having player stalls dosnt make a market "player driven") then go check out FFXIV.. And tera is on the list because of no auto aiming? That's been done before..
With a list like that i can say almost all western games are innovateing -
WoW - drops loads of ez l00t
AoC - has boobs at character creation
WAR - has tons of teh pvp and is player driven pvp
LoTRo - is MMORPG made off Lord Of The Rings zomg
c'mon...
Yeah,it's been done before,REALLY? omg!
You know,there is a difference beetween 2 or 3 games with the same mechanic,than 30 mmorpgs with the same old feature from wow.
And it doesn't matter,if you haven't played Eve,FFXIV has a lot of new things.
If you played 1 western game,you have played them all,yeah maybe they have 1 or 2 new features,but not core mechanics.
I'am not defending western MMORPG's.. I'am just saying that EVERYTHING you said can be said the same for eastern market.. Almost everyone knows, eastern MMORPG = GRINDERS.. And you've proven it you're self by posting that list of "innovateing" eastern MMORPGs.. FFXIV = grind, theres not even quests, you just group up and grind on mobs.. AION = grind, trust me, i hit lvl 50 before this new AION 2.0 stuff, i was first cleric on my server to do so, and i did so by grinding the same elite mobs over and over again in idratu.. TERA = still in beta but since its being westernized by a lot of the same people who westernized AION its safe to say that it, too, will be a grind.
Thanks for proving my point.
"If it's asian,there is only grind",you probably never played ony of those games.
FFXIV has levequests,local leves,faction leves,story quests and class quests,you are just lying.
I have a Ranger lvl 50 in aion without doing any grind,just quests,i never ran out of quests.
Tera it's too easy,there are people at lvl 40+ after 3 days.
As i said, i had a cleric in AION.. I played it at launch, before 2.0; back when you ran out of quests at lv 35 and you're option was to run instances or grind elites in idratu.. And everyone knew grinding elites was quicker, and sadly, dropped better items.. I doubt you played at launch or you'd know what i'am talking about; as even the asmos were jealous of our grinding spots..
The only reason you hit 50 through questing was because in AION 2.0 (after tons of complaints) they spent more time westernizeing AION.. In the eastern version its pay by the hour and more grindy then AION was for us at launch, the only reason its hanging on right now is BECAUSE it was WESTERNIZED.. You can hardly call it a eastern game anyways because had you played the korean version of AION you'd know how much of grind it was to get bloodstains and you'd know that the quests were just lore holders.. How do you think we even figured how to use the landscape trick to get into idratu? Because in the korea version people do it all the time..
Same thing can be said for FFXIV.. The reason why it failed so much is because its poor westernization.. Puting leve quests on a timer because they had no content.. Story quests that happen after every 10hrs of gameplay? The story quests are sparse at best.. You think im lieing? Go read some reviews and see for you're self.. Go check out the FFXIV forums, people forming grinding groups as the quickest means to get XP.. FFXIV will fail if not westernized better, thats why they got rid of the former lead manager.. You are lieing to you're self if you said that you never had to grind a mob inbetween leve quests cooldowns for xp when FFXIV launched.
So far you only proveing you like WESTERNIZED MMORPG's..
No,i played at launch and i never ran out of quests.
That's what happens when you don't skip content and grind elites.
Suuuuure you where.. As i said, go check out some reviews pack when AION launched.. Check out some complaints on the forums.. #1 thing complained about = grind.. Take off them rose colored tints my friend.
edit: Oh i would never run out of quests either if i actually did the 1/10000 repeatable quests 1000 different times.
Currently Playing: Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
We will always have eastern games,the only ones who always try to innovate.
Personally,i could care less if the western mmorpg market dies,they haven't made a good game since.....well,a lot of years.
Name a recent "innovative" eastern MMORPG.
Don't worry, i'll wait.
I have to agree with the OP about Trion though, they seem to have their heads on straight and I sincerely hope for the success of Rift. It has a ton of potential as well.
Aion,flight pvp.
FFXIV,player driven economy,gatherers and crafters are classes,just like warriors and mages.
Tera,no auto-aiming.
Recent western mmos,AoC,War,Lotro,all the same crap.
lol what you listed is hardly innovateing.. And the fact that you have FFXIV and innovating in a single sentence is beyond me.. You wanna see a player driven market, go check out EvE.. You wanna see a barley functioning market (having player stalls dosnt make a market "player driven") then go check out FFXIV.. And tera is on the list because of no auto aiming? That's been done before..
With a list like that i can say almost all western games are innovateing -
WoW - drops loads of ez l00t
AoC - has boobs at character creation
WAR - has tons of teh pvp and is player driven pvp
LoTRo - is MMORPG made off Lord Of The Rings zomg
c'mon...
Yeah,it's been done before,REALLY? omg!
You know,there is a difference beetween 2 or 3 games with the same mechanic,than 30 mmorpgs with the same old feature from wow.
And it doesn't matter,if you haven't played Eve,FFXIV has a lot of new things.
If you played 1 western game,you have played them all,yeah maybe they have 1 or 2 new features,but not core mechanics.
I'am not defending western MMORPG's.. I'am just saying that EVERYTHING you said can be said the same for eastern market.. Almost everyone knows, eastern MMORPG = GRINDERS.. And you've proven it you're self by posting that list of "innovateing" eastern MMORPGs.. FFXIV = grind, theres not even quests, you just group up and grind on mobs.. AION = grind, trust me, i hit lvl 50 before this new AION 2.0 stuff, i was first cleric on my server to do so, and i did so by grinding the same elite mobs over and over again in idratu.. TERA = still in beta but since its being westernized by a lot of the same people who westernized AION its safe to say that it, too, will be a grind.
Thanks for proving my point.
"If it's asian,there is only grind",you probably never played ony of those games.
FFXIV has levequests,local leves,faction leves,story quests and class quests,you are just lying.
I have a Ranger lvl 50 in aion without doing any grind,just quests,i never ran out of quests.
Tera it's too easy,there are people at lvl 40+ after 3 days.
As i said, i had a cleric in AION.. I played it at launch, before 2.0; back when you ran out of quests at lv 35 and you're option was to run instances or grind elites in idratu.. And everyone knew grinding elites was quicker, and sadly, dropped better items.. I doubt you played at launch or you'd know what i'am talking about; as even the asmos were jealous of our grinding spots..
The only reason you hit 50 through questing was because in AION 2.0 (after tons of complaints) they spent more time westernizeing AION.. In the eastern version its pay by the hour and more grindy then AION was for us at launch, the only reason its hanging on right now is BECAUSE it was WESTERNIZED.. You can hardly call it a eastern game anyways because had you played the korean version of AION you'd know how much of grind it was to get bloodstains and you'd know that the quests were just lore holders.. How do you think we even figured how to use the landscape trick to get into idratu? Because in the korea version people do it all the time..
Same thing can be said for FFXIV.. The reason why it failed so much is because its poor westernization.. Puting leve quests on a timer because they had no content.. Story quests that happen after every 10hrs of gameplay? The story quests are sparse at best.. You think im lieing? Go read some reviews and see for you're self.. Go check out the FFXIV forums, people forming grinding groups as the quickest means to get XP.. FFXIV will fail if not westernized better, thats why they got rid of the former lead manager.. You are lieing to you're self if you said that you never had to grind a mob inbetween leve quests cooldowns for xp when FFXIV launched.
So far you only proveing you like WESTERNIZED MMORPG's..
No,i played at launch and i never ran out of quests.
That's what happens when you don't skip content and grind elites.
Suuuuure you where.. As i said, go check out some reviews pack when AION launched.. Check out some complaints on the forums.. #1 thing complained about = grind.. Take off them rose colored tints my friend.
edit: Oh i would never run out of quests either if i actually did the 1/10000 repeatable quests 1000 different times.
Ummm,what's the different between repeteable quests in aion and the quests in rift? they are all the same.
And i never said ffxiv doesn't have grind,it's grind based,just like oldschool games,but you said "it doesn't have quests11!" which is a lie.
FFXIV failed because of the random sp gain,poor ui,lack of goals,and bland classes,NOT for lack of westernization,they don't want to water down the game for the noob western audience.
But the game is not dead,it will have around 300-500k subs after the ps3 launch.
And i never said FFXIV doesn't have grind,the lvling is grind based,like oldschool games,but you said !IT DOESN'T HAVE QUESTS" which is a lie.
FFXIV failed because the random sp gain,poor ui and lack of goals.
But the gave is not dead,it will have around 300-500k subs when the ps3 version launchs.
And i never said FFXIV doesn't have grind,the lvling is grind based,like oldschool games,but you said !IT DOESN'T HAVE QUESTS" which is a lie.
FFXIV failed because the random sp gain,poor ui and lack of goals.
But the gave is not dead,it will have around 300-500k subs when the ps3 version launchs.
And i never said FFXIV doesn't have grind,the lvling is grind based,like oldschool games,but you said !IT DOESN'T HAVE QUESTS" which is a lie.
FFXIV failed because the random sp gain,poor ui and lack of goals.
But the gave is not dead,it will have around 300-500k subs when the ps3 version launchs.
And i never said FFXIV doesn't have grind,the lvling is grind based,like oldschool games,but you said !IT DOESN'T HAVE QUESTS" which is a lie.
FFXIV failed because the random sp gain,poor ui and lack of goals.
But the gave is not dead,it will have around 300-500k subs when the ps3 version launchs.
Moving in the air and swimming in water is pretty much the same. You can move freely on any axis. up down left right totally free. One is just above the ground and one is in water. fundamentally, its exactly the same.
After experiencing the beta last week, Rift is probably not something I'm ever going to play. Like many others, I find it too linear, too much of the same old, same old. I am very happy, however, that others are enjoying the hell out of it.
Why, you ask? Two reasons:
1. The industry really doesn't need yet another failure.
Suits are getting gun shy about investing in mmos as it is. I know some of you are thinking: "Great! The sooner that major companies realize that making clones of WoW is a losing proposition, the better!" But that's not how suits think. If investing in a proven business model isn't working, they sure aren't going to want to invest in an unproven one. Already, much of the innovation and forward-thinking in the industry is left to indie outfits, and we all know that usually works out. While I doubt that Rift's failure would shut down any mmos already in production, it sure might signal a crib death for more than a few other mmos, one of which might be the very one you're waiting for. Like Trion's very own 'End of Nations'. Which brings me to my next point...
2. Trion seems like they've got their heads on straight.
I almost wonder if Rift wasn't planned as the company's opening salvo, simply because they knew they could find funding for it. If Rift does well, I think we can look forward to games down the road from them that'll be different and innovative. If Rift fails, not so much.
While the success or failure of SWTOR probably means more to the industry than Rift, I'm sure that quite a few execs are going to be watching Rift's bottom line very closely.
Let's hope it does well, for all our sakes.
agree. rift is linear and bring nothing new but i hope it succeeds too. we dont' need another fail.
finally, someone who doesnt like the games says something intelligent and doesnt just bash the hell out of it. if u like the game play it and if you dont leave it alone. thats the best advice i got from anyone about this game.
At all the impact of success or not will not be that big on the industry but SWTOR will have an very huge impact - also GW2 will have an impact on the future business decisions!
My hopes be that SWTOR shows that great storytelling works in a mmo and the developers get aware a mmo has not to be a monolithic build but can offer a versatile world with many niches for each player and style!
Soon Rift will show its performance on the market, lets see how the market reacts...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
While I plan on playing Rift on release and look forward to calling Telara my home, that's not why I hope it succeeds. I hope it succeeds, because while I'm a big fan of MMO's they really need a booster shot. I'm just hoping that with so many AAA titles coming out, that maybe gaming companies will have a new outlook on the MMO marketplace.
I really don't want 2010 to become the norm for MMO's.
I am certain that there are some features of rift that havn't been announced yet... these guys are clever and the best way to please the founders is with a nice surprise. Trion have shown they have this sort of attitude in the past and I wouldn't put it past them to have a number of additional features ready for launch or at least very shortly after.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
I am certain that there are some features of rift that havn't been announced yet... these guys are clever and the best way to please the founders is with a nice surprise. Trion have shown they have this sort of attitude in the past and I wouldn't put it past them to have a number of additional features ready for launch or at least very shortly after.
I think that depends on what you call "features".
But sure, they will most likely be some surprises at launch and they will most likely add stuff later as well. Who knows, if GW2 becomes succesful they might add a lot more dynamic stuff, the mechanics for it is already in the game.
Still, the game can go either way, anything from 100K to 1M subs is possible. It is always hard to tell with MMOs until a month or 2 after release.
I for one think Trion and Rift should be praised for one thing over anything else, that being supplying a game at launch that isn't a bug riddled turd. (Yes I'm aware that all games have bugs.)
Rift in it's Beta form makes most recent game at launch look quite pathetic, I've play most of these other games for varying times most never achieve the levels of function that Rift already enjoys.
The Dev's seem to listen to what the community have to say and at least acknowledge issues the player base are having.
Let's face it there is nothing truly new in MMO land they all mimic each other to some extent, it's how they implement and pace these concepts that either make games fun (subjection) or a grind/not fun (subjection).
If you are looking for MMO's that are truly new you'll be looking for a long ass time I'm afraid, with the largest player in the market being the biggest absorber of ideas/concepts WoW (the Borg of the MMO world) is the biggest copycat out there, everything else will be compared to it.
So what chance does a new game have if you can't at the very least acknowledge the companies that actually release a good functioning game.
I'm all for supporting innovation but that isn't enough, I refuse to play and pay for a game that feels like it's in Beta 12 months after release and we've all played games like this.
The more clones fail...the more likely we will eventually get a high quality high budget alternative.
That's a nice dream, but it wouldn't happen. In the last few years we have had quite a few different MMO games that are very different from WoW released. Darkfall, Mortal Online, DCUO, and Fallen Earth to name a few. Then there are upcoming games such as Xyson and Earthrise that aren't following the WoW route.
These are all low budget titles, and very, very niche. Unfortunately, it's all we're going to get until there's an underground hit that didn't cost 30 million + to make. If Rift, GW2, Tera, and TOR all fail (all games that should be successful on paper) then investors are not going to start putting their money into even riskier game designs, they're going to stop investing in the genre entirely.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Comments
I've expressed my negative views of Rift before (not enough to make myself known as one of the resident Rift haters on this site, but still), but ultimately I hope it does succeed. It's better than most if not all of the WoW-style MMO's, including WoW itself in some regards.
Back to the OP:
I also think Rift is important from the big-box corporations recognizing PC gaming in general as important. It used to be that so many games started on the PC, and were then ported to consoles. Then it went to simultaneous development, and now more and more often great games with online content are only on the consoles.
Rift is PC based big budget game with no Console development so far as anyone can tell, and has the most games industry hype that my recent (admittedly addled) memory can remember. In the minds of the suits, this might be the ONLY game to come out since WOW. We all know there are other games that have come out, in some cases great games, but none of them has had the staying power, and many have been fantastic money pits. Wall street and private investors need to know that the games we love can make money, or they wont be investing in the developers that make the games we love.
I don't know about you, but I want a new, innovative game sooner rather than later. If RIFT fails, I fear it will be later. In that case, I may not be playing MMOs for much longer.
Off-topic east/west crap:
Eastern games have better boobs, somewhat better graphics, and much more realistic character modeling (sans-boobs). Western games seem to think that looking like Wallace&Grommit is perfectly fine (I kid, I kid... sort of).
Western style games, however, have a much more immersive experience, crafting, questing, dungeons, and most everything else seem more well done in the western games I've played.
Eastern games have better PvP mechanics and faction warring, IMO, but more often fail in the PvE as above. (No one seems to have noticed that RIFT has gotten this right, but I don't know if you're the pvp type)
So many of the eastern games fail because they're pay2win, I mean, F2p. I'm sure anyone who has tried an eastern style f2p game can attest to this. There's nothing like losing to some kids $100 allowance being dumped into game cards every month, and because of that these same annoying, spoiled, ass-hats become guild leaders.
I'm currently playing LOTRO, and I have to tell you, it's been a joy, not because of the amazing and innovative play (which it's not) but because I haven't met one person on there that has been an immature fail of a human being. So, in the end, the east/west divide for me comes down to older people who've played DnD and old-style RPG games, and silly Anime-weaned teenagers who only know they like to Kill people in CoD, so why shouldn't an MMORPG be the same thing?
Final thought: The only new or innovative upcoming game I've even heard mention of is GW2, for realz dogz. /troll ... :P
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I really wish Rift well. I dont know if i will end up playing it my self but from what ive seen from the beta and heard from other people, the company seems like they have their heads on straight. I hope it will succeed for the sake of the genre as well. Alot of games have been pretty train wreckish lately.
My personal take on success of a game is if it can maintain a sizable population to keep doors open and production on it profitable. Games dont need 3 million players to be successful i mean look at EVE online, it doesnt have an enormous playerbase yet it still does well. It caters towards a certain fanbase and that is why i think it succeeds. A game fails because it tries to be too many things at once.
About LOTRO, It may not be crazy innovative but I do not think it is a failure. It caters to people that love LOTR and has a mature community, it is also very PVE driven which i think helps the develpers hone in on one area of the game instead of trying to balance both PVE and PVP. The community in LOTRO id personally have to say is one of the best features of the game.
The biggest thing i think people need to understand in the West VS East drama is that both audiences have different values, ideals and opinions. Eastern games tend to have a more mob grind oriented play while western games are more quest/loot whoring. Western gamers like Western games because they are catered towards that type of game style. The same thing can be said of Eastern games. Both styles are great in their own way and I think they should both be respected for that. If you like Western games more then Eastern games and vice versa thats cool, doesnt mean you should bash on a game just because it doesnt play they way You want it too.
Anyways this is all my own opinion. opinions are not facts and should not be taken as such. opinions also do not harm people and should not be bashed if they do not coincide with your own.
(editted to add another point in)
Actually I think Vindictus brought some interesting ideas to combat. But other than that I haven't really seen any more innovation from eastern mmos than western mmos.
What? Aion is right now the second mmo with more subs worldwide,around 4 million.
Tera doesn't have target lock,there are only 3 or 4 skills in game with that,but they are for healing and 1 dps skill of the ranger.
As i said, i had a cleric in AION.. I played it at launch, before 2.0; back when you ran out of quests at lv 35 and you're option was to run instances or grind elites in idratu.. And everyone knew grinding elites was quicker, and sadly, dropped better items.. I doubt you played at launch or you'd know what i'am talking about; as even the asmos were jealous of our grinding spots..
The only reason you hit 50 through questing was because in AION 2.0 (after tons of complaints) they spent more time westernizeing AION.. In the eastern version its pay by the hour and more grindy then AION was for us at launch, the only reason its hanging on right now is BECAUSE it was WESTERNIZED.. You can hardly call it a eastern game anyways because had you played the korean version of AION you'd know how much of grind it was to get bloodstains and you'd know that the quests were just lore holders.. How do you think we even figured how to use the landscape trick to get into idratu? Because in the korea version people do it all the time..
Same thing can be said for FFXIV.. The reason why it failed so much is because its poor westernization.. Puting leve quests on a timer because they had no content.. Story quests that happen after every 10hrs of gameplay? The story quests are sparse at best.. You think im lieing? Go read some reviews and see for you're self.. Go check out the FFXIV forums, people forming grinding groups as the quickest means to get XP.. FFXIV will fail if not westernized better, thats why they got rid of the former lead manager.. You are lieing to you're self if you said that you never had to grind a mob inbetween leve quests cooldowns for xp when FFXIV launched.
So far you only proveing you like WESTERNIZED MMORPG's..
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
No,i played at launch and i never ran out of quests.
That's what happens when you don't skip content to grind elites.
Suuuuure you where.. As i said, go check out some reviews pack when AION launched.. Check out some complaints on the forums.. #1 thing complained about = grind.. Take off them rose colored tints my friend.
edit: Oh i would never run out of quests either if i actually did the 1/10000 repeatable quests 1000 different times.
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
Ummm,what's the different between repeteable quests in aion and the quests in rift? they are all the same.
And i never said ffxiv doesn't have grind,it's grind based,just like oldschool games,but you said "it doesn't have quests11!" which is a lie.
FFXIV failed because of the random sp gain,poor ui,lack of goals,and bland classes,NOT for lack of westernization,they don't want to water down the game for the noob western audience.
But the game is not dead,it will have around 300-500k subs after the ps3 launch.
And i never said FFXIV doesn't have grind,the lvling is grind based,like oldschool games,but you said !IT DOESN'T HAVE QUESTS" which is a lie.
FFXIV failed because the random sp gain,poor ui and lack of goals.
But the gave is not dead,it will have around 300-500k subs when the ps3 version launchs.
And i never said FFXIV doesn't have grind,the lvling is grind based,like oldschool games,but you said !IT DOESN'T HAVE QUESTS" which is a lie.
FFXIV failed because the random sp gain,poor ui and lack of goals.
But the gave is not dead,it will have around 300-500k subs when the ps3 version launchs.
And i never said FFXIV doesn't have grind,the lvling is grind based,like oldschool games,but you said !IT DOESN'T HAVE QUESTS" which is a lie.
FFXIV failed because the random sp gain,poor ui and lack of goals.
But the gave is not dead,it will have around 300-500k subs when the ps3 version launchs.
And i never said FFXIV doesn't have grind,the lvling is grind based,like oldschool games,but you said !IT DOESN'T HAVE QUESTS" which is a lie.
FFXIV failed because the random sp gain,poor ui and lack of goals.
But the gave is not dead,it will have around 300-500k subs when the ps3 version launchs.
Aion's flight system was done in other games, Hello CoH/CoV
but if you want to get technical about it, Know what other game had a system of "flight" similar to Aion...
DAOC... Only it was called swimming under water, and it worked far better... But the mechanic itself was similar to Aion's Flight System..
There was nothing remotely unique about anything Aion did..
Asian MMO's are pretty much all the same, with random "unique" features
aion had a rip off of flight, and Tera is going to try and rip off AoC combat system
The most unique and quite honestly refreshing pvp system i've seen in the longest time belongs to DCUO..
They actually went for something different, and remarkably it works, to bad the Ui is crap..
Ummm,Tera combat is nothing like Aoc,you should at least watch 1 video before saying something like that.
And how is underwater the same? you just made me lol hard.
I like Rift . It is fun. Fun is good.
wtf
Moving in the air and swimming in water is pretty much the same. You can move freely on any axis. up down left right totally free. One is just above the ground and one is in water. fundamentally, its exactly the same.
agree. rift is linear and bring nothing new but i hope it succeeds too. we dont' need another fail.
On a basic movement level they are pretty much the same. which i think is what an earlier poster was getting at, i may be wrong though.
finally, someone who doesnt like the games says something intelligent and doesnt just bash the hell out of it. if u like the game play it and if you dont leave it alone. thats the best advice i got from anyone about this game.
My guess is that Rift will be a decent success.
At all the impact of success or not will not be that big on the industry but SWTOR will have an very huge impact - also GW2 will have an impact on the future business decisions!
My hopes be that SWTOR shows that great storytelling works in a mmo and the developers get aware a mmo has not to be a monolithic build but can offer a versatile world with many niches for each player and style!
Soon Rift will show its performance on the market, lets see how the market reacts...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
I have to agree with the OP.
While I plan on playing Rift on release and look forward to calling Telara my home, that's not why I hope it succeeds. I hope it succeeds, because while I'm a big fan of MMO's they really need a booster shot. I'm just hoping that with so many AAA titles coming out, that maybe gaming companies will have a new outlook on the MMO marketplace.
I really don't want 2010 to become the norm for MMO's.
I really agree with you Totec, i worry that mmo's will die out.
The more clones fail...the more likely we will eventually get a high quality high budget alternative.
Remember Old School Ultima Online
I am certain that there are some features of rift that havn't been announced yet... these guys are clever and the best way to please the founders is with a nice surprise. Trion have shown they have this sort of attitude in the past and I wouldn't put it past them to have a number of additional features ready for launch or at least very shortly after.
I think that depends on what you call "features".
But sure, they will most likely be some surprises at launch and they will most likely add stuff later as well. Who knows, if GW2 becomes succesful they might add a lot more dynamic stuff, the mechanics for it is already in the game.
Still, the game can go either way, anything from 100K to 1M subs is possible. It is always hard to tell with MMOs until a month or 2 after release.
I for one think Trion and Rift should be praised for one thing over anything else, that being supplying a game at launch that isn't a bug riddled turd. (Yes I'm aware that all games have bugs.)
Rift in it's Beta form makes most recent game at launch look quite pathetic, I've play most of these other games for varying times most never achieve the levels of function that Rift already enjoys.
The Dev's seem to listen to what the community have to say and at least acknowledge issues the player base are having.
Let's face it there is nothing truly new in MMO land they all mimic each other to some extent, it's how they implement and pace these concepts that either make games fun (subjection) or a grind/not fun (subjection).
If you are looking for MMO's that are truly new you'll be looking for a long ass time I'm afraid, with the largest player in the market being the biggest absorber of ideas/concepts WoW (the Borg of the MMO world) is the biggest copycat out there, everything else will be compared to it.
So what chance does a new game have if you can't at the very least acknowledge the companies that actually release a good functioning game.
I'm all for supporting innovation but that isn't enough, I refuse to play and pay for a game that feels like it's in Beta 12 months after release and we've all played games like this.
That's a nice dream, but it wouldn't happen. In the last few years we have had quite a few different MMO games that are very different from WoW released. Darkfall, Mortal Online, DCUO, and Fallen Earth to name a few. Then there are upcoming games such as Xyson and Earthrise that aren't following the WoW route.
These are all low budget titles, and very, very niche. Unfortunately, it's all we're going to get until there's an underground hit that didn't cost 30 million + to make. If Rift, GW2, Tera, and TOR all fail (all games that should be successful on paper) then investors are not going to start putting their money into even riskier game designs, they're going to stop investing in the genre entirely.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."