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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Gotta Go Sell

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Comments

  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,088

    I hate small inventory space in games where mobs drop loads of trashloot. I dont like it if the main reason that I have to visit npc vendors, is to empty bags.

    Or when it even gets worse because of questitems that take up inventory slots.

  • SenadinaSenadina Member UncommonPosts: 896

    Originally posted by Harabeck

    Originally posted by Jimmy562

    A little extra money doesn't hurt, even if its a pathetic amount. It all adds up and since in TOR you don't have to break stride to do so, I really don't mind it. Doing it yourself does get annoying though.

    For all we no those grey useless items might actually be worth decent amounts in bulk for TOR.

    You missed the point entirely. Why not just hand out that extra money upon the death of the mob?

     

    Actually, I have an answer. The reason for grey items lies in the psychology being used by game companies to keep you addicted. MMO's, like slot machines, use a variable ratio reward schedule. On average, every Xth time you do the action you are being trained to do (kill a mob/ insert coin and pull lever), you get a reward. The variability means you that always think that the next time could be the big one. The grey items are there to keep going in between the rarer rewards. They give you just enough so that you feel you're getting something out of the activity because if you go too long without a reward, the behavior gets extinguished. Also, a more consistent reward helps to get you addicted in the first place.

    But why don't cash rewards serve that role? They're too easy to ignore; it's just a sound effect and a counter being incremented. Having to pick up and then sell the item forces you to acknowledge it as a reward.


     

     This sounds like the best explanation I've read here. Grays are one more way to keep you pulling that loot lever, and coins would not be as visceral as objects, even worthless objects. Well thought out sir, or ma'am.

    image

  • Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Jimmy562

    A little extra money doesn't hurt, even if its a pathetic amount. It all adds up and since in TOR you don't have to break stride to do so, I really don't mind it. Doing it yourself does get annoying though.

    For all we no those grey useless items might actually be worth decent amounts in bulk for TOR.

    Yeah, but you would rather plunder someones wallet than taking his boots after you killed him. Vendortrash sucks.

    I did not see a single person loot anyone in all the 6 movies, therefor I conclude that vendortrash is against the lore, at least for the good side. Who knows what tghe darkside do?

    Really, vendortrash is the dumbest part of MMOs. Only someone pathetic poor individual would loot like this, like the poor people following the armies in the 30 year war.

    Of course you would pick up something that looks really expansive from someone you offed, but not junk items. Only cash should drop beside premium items in any game.

    Two scenes pop to mind. First is when Kenobi "loots" Anakin's lightsaber after he beats him in episode 3.  Second is when Han and Luke "loot" a couple of stormtroopers they beat shortly after getting on the deathstar. image

  • KuinnKuinn Member UncommonPosts: 2,072

    Only problem I have with vendor trash is: It drops too often and sells for too low. Reduce drop rate significantly and add value. Then there's still that "loot! yay"-subconscious factor, and this time it even feels much rewarding, now you dont have to run to town all the time or better yet throw the trash out of inventory just to make space for something meaningful.

     

    You could even disguise it as something like "artifacts/valuables" make 50 different types and glue an achievement on top of that which triggers after you've collected them all. After you sell enough of them to a somekind of "collector" you could get some unique/vanity rewards. I'm not saying this is the only, or best way, but I came up with this idea to replace vendor trash in 3 seconds.

  • KuinnKuinn Member UncommonPosts: 2,072

    Originally posted by gaou



    Originally posted by Loke666


    Originally posted by Jimmy562

    A little extra money doesn't hurt, even if its a pathetic amount. It all adds up and since in TOR you don't have to break stride to do so, I really don't mind it. Doing it yourself does get annoying though.

    For all we no those grey useless items might actually be worth decent amounts in bulk for TOR.

    Yeah, but you would rather plunder someones wallet than taking his boots after you killed him. Vendortrash sucks.

    I did not see a single person loot anyone in all the 6 movies, therefor I conclude that vendortrash is against the lore, at least for the good side. Who knows what tghe darkside do?

    Really, vendortrash is the dumbest part of MMOs. Only someone pathetic poor individual would loot like this, like the poor people following the armies in the 30 year war.

    Of course you would pick up something that looks really expansive from someone you offed, but not junk items. Only cash should drop beside premium items in any game.

    Two scenes pop to mind. First is when Kenobi "loots" Anakin's lightsaber after he beats him in episode 3.  Second is when Han and Luke "loot" a couple of stormtroopers they beat shortly after getting on the deathstar. image


     

    I wouldnt call lightsaber exactly a vendor trash item :)

  • NazgolNazgol Member Posts: 864

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Jimmy562

    A little extra money doesn't hurt, even if its a pathetic amount. It all adds up and since in TOR you don't have to break stride to do so, I really don't mind it. Doing it yourself does get annoying though.

    For all we no those grey useless items might actually be worth decent amounts in bulk for TOR.

    Yeah, but you would rather plunder someones wallet than taking his boots after you killed him. Vendortrash sucks.

    I did not see a single person loot anyone in all the 6 movies, therefor I conclude that vendortrash is against the lore, at least for the good side. Who knows what tghe darkside do?

    Really, vendortrash is the dumbest part of MMOs. Only someone pathetic poor individual would loot like this, like the poor people following the armies in the 30 year war.

    Of course you would pick up something that looks really expansive from someone you offed, but not junk items. Only cash should drop beside premium items in any game.

     Wrong. Obi Wan looted Anakin's Lightsaber in Revenge of the Sith. Oops someone beat me to it.

    In Bioware we trust!

  • Hopscotch73Hopscotch73 Member UncommonPosts: 971

    One of the sub-games in any MMO is inventory management. Like it or not, grey loot drops area big part of that.

    If inventory management wasn't considered a sub-game (no matter how frustrating it can be), we would all have backpacks with unlimited capacity and bank vaults out the wazoo. From the get-go. And weight wouldn't mean anything. But that never happens, right?

    For better or worse, it's part of the genre. You have one space in your pack and two greens drop, do you delete the stack of 100 grey doohickeys you've collected on the off-chance one (or both) of the greens is worth more?

    If not for grey drops, those choices don't even come up. They also provide a variety in loot-tables, grey drop, white drop, double grey, green - and there's always a bigger variety of grey drop items than any other kind. Grey drops contribute to the "jackpot!" feeling you get when a trash mob drops something actually useful/valuable.

    Love 'em or loathe 'em, without greys you have a shrunken loot table that will lead to complaints that there's not enough variety in the looting.

    We're a tough bunch to please...if grey loot was dropped from a game altogether we'd all find a reason to complain about it.

  • SwampRobSwampRob Member UncommonPosts: 1,003

    I don't mind grays dropping.   I'd rather get something than nothing from a mob I've defeated.     Keep in mind you don't have to pick up anything.    Some trash can be worth more than others.

    On the question of bag space; while games let you carry more than is realistically possible, I've never played an MMO that had enough space to suit me.   Not on my person or in my bank/storage.    Drives me crazy.

  • Talon_ActualTalon_Actual Member Posts: 28

    Originally posted by Sanguinelust

    Yeah it's a waste of pack space but I do think greys are a necessary evil. If you kill over and over again and get nothing but a few coins, credits, whatever every time it's going to get boring. I agree that running back to town to sell those greys is a dumb practice but for some reason some people just can't let them go. I collect them and if I wind up in a group if I run out of space they are the first things to get deleted.


     

     While I agree that the issue of "grey items" needs to be addressed, I can see that as a mechanic they serve some use - i.e. timesink and money-generator. I think greys could be replaced with more coin, more crafting or salvagable materials, and more low/mid-level items that some characters may need, but if you replace them with only coin you will lose a major time-sink.

    One (rare for me) call out to Rift - their greys are sometimes very entertaining. If it is a necessary evil, at least make it interesting and/or funny! I think it is a very nice touch when mobs drop greys that are appropriate to their type/species and gives the player a chuckle.

  • AyadoriAyadori Member Posts: 12

    I think the single most ridiculous thing in MMOs is the ability to loot Plate Armor from turtles, swords from evil birds and so forth. Talk about immersion breakers ...

  • Jimmy562Jimmy562 Member UncommonPosts: 1,158

    Originally posted by Harabeck

    Originally posted by Jimmy562

    A little extra money doesn't hurt, even if its a pathetic amount. It all adds up and since in TOR you don't have to break stride to do so, I really don't mind it. Doing it yourself does get annoying though.

    For all we no those grey useless items might actually be worth decent amounts in bulk for TOR.

    You missed the point entirely. Why not just hand out that extra money upon the death of the mob?

     

    Actually, I have an answer. The reason for grey items lies in the psychology being used by game companies to keep you addicted. MMO's, like slot machines, use a variable ratio reward schedule. On average, every Xth time you do the action you are being trained to do (kill a mob/ insert coin and pull lever), you get a reward. The variability means you that always think that the next time could be the big one. The grey items are there to keep going in between the rarer rewards. They give you just enough so that you feel you're getting something out of the activity because if you go too long without a reward, the behavior gets extinguished. Also, a more consistent reward helps to get you addicted in the first place.

    But why don't cash rewards serve that role? They're too easy to ignore; it's just a sound effect and a counter being incremented. Having to pick up and then sell the item forces you to acknowledge it as a reward.

    I think the player should be rewarded for collecting and selling. As i said, perhaps make the grey items worth more in bulk (Price per item increased). For example 100 leaves is worth more when sold all together than selling 5 leaves together.


  • Originally posted by Kuinn

    Originally posted by gaou



    Originally posted by Loke666


    Originally posted by Jimmy562

    A little extra money doesn't hurt, even if its a pathetic amount. It all adds up and since in TOR you don't have to break stride to do so, I really don't mind it. Doing it yourself does get annoying though.

    For all we no those grey useless items might actually be worth decent amounts in bulk for TOR.

    Yeah, but you would rather plunder someones wallet than taking his boots after you killed him. Vendortrash sucks.

    I did not see a single person loot anyone in all the 6 movies, therefor I conclude that vendortrash is against the lore, at least for the good side. Who knows what tghe darkside do?

    Really, vendortrash is the dumbest part of MMOs. Only someone pathetic poor individual would loot like this, like the poor people following the armies in the 30 year war.

    Of course you would pick up something that looks really expansive from someone you offed, but not junk items. Only cash should drop beside premium items in any game.

    Two scenes pop to mind. First is when Kenobi "loots" Anakin's lightsaber after he beats him in episode 3.  Second is when Han and Luke "loot" a couple of stormtroopers they beat shortly after getting on the deathstar. image


     

    I wouldnt call lightsaber exactly a vendor trash item :)

    lol Agreed but he just said no one got looted, not no one looted vendor trash. ;)

  • jakinjakin Member UncommonPosts: 243

    Problem:  MMOs function on a faucet / drain economic system, therefore there needs to be a way to introduce currency into the economy.  Combat is the most common activity practiced by the whole population so the faucet has to be combat-related.  Therefore, killing will net currency.

    Back in the day, killing a mob usually would either give coin or coin + usable item.  Again back in the day people cared about game worlds making some sort of sense and lizards dropping copper pieces doesn't.  Immersionists complained.

     

    Solution:  Critters drop type-appropriate loot that can be traded for cash.  Animals drop body parts, humanoids drop coin and/or broken equipment (because butchering humanoids has ESRB implications).  Immersionists are happy.

     

    Time passes and virtual worlds are traded for online games...

     

    Problem: Players critique "grey loot" because selling it interrupts their playtime, logical integrity of the world takes a backseat to convenience and "doing what I want when I want".  Currency still needs to enter the game via combat however.

     

    Solution:  Essentially automate the vendoring of trash loot (in this case sending a lackey off to sell it and bring back the money).

     

    How long before they cut out the middle man and go back to simply awarding cash for killing directly again?  It's funny how things move in cycles.

  • kado2kado2 Member Posts: 80

    I hate the common practice of having to run back grays by myself. Its just a ridiculous waste of time. However, I will say that this isn't a gamebreaker for me (and is as you said a bit nitpicky) and that having our companions be able to run off and sell them is actually a feature I look forward to having and Utilizing to the fullest.

    While I might hate the gray runs though, I have to say I don't hate grays. They bring in a modest amount of currency usually and if you can reverse engineer them (as you have been able to in some games) and get crafting xp for it (or some other kind of xp) then theyre even more useful. I look forward to seeing what SWToR does with this archaic game mechanic and if theyre going to integrate it into their craftng system at all.

    Retired: EVE, SWG, STO, EQ2, Ryzom, AO, LotRO, FFXI
    Currently Awaiting: SWTOR, TSW, ArcheAge

  • Paradigm68Paradigm68 Member UncommonPosts: 890

    The solution is easy: Just make sure mobs only drop items that have some use in game, or just drop cash. Creating gray items, items that have absolutely no use in game is a waste of dev resources and player time.

  • HauptbergHauptberg Member Posts: 1

    I personally like grey items. I mostly play WoW though and they have a lot of grey items.  I pick everything up.

    Why?

    One very good reason. At lower levels you need as much copper, silver and gold as you can get. Sometimes those greys give you just enough money to get that next skill. And I have made a decent amount of money in the long run off of greys. Of course I am a bit of horder when it comes to money.  I am slightly paranoid that I won't have the money for that great weapon, upgrade or next piece of armor and in WoW at least even higher lvl greys are worth a few pieces of gold, enought to store away or give to a lower lvl character to help them out. And some of the grey items can be used for professions as well.

    It doesn't break any story or immersion for me in game. I time it to where I have to go back into town anyways to turn quests in, I get it all done at the same time. 

    It's an aspect of MMO's that I...well, I kinda like. And as some people have pointed out, you wouldn't actually do this if you were in that situation for real.

    That's true, but ah, this isn't real. This is a game and most people don't play games for realism, they play to escape and have fun. You have to suspend your disbelief when playing them. Take WoW for example: You go into the water and get attacked by a murlock, annoying little bastards, you kill him and loot a half full glass of milk. What the heck was he doing with a half full glass of milk! He has no pockets! It's kinda funny to me.

    Almost every MMO have these things and I have learned to just accept and even embrace it. And if something important does pop up and I have a full pack. I simply destroy a grey, with no ill will or regret and put the important thing in there.

    I would rather have greys than something worth more in my pack, because I would rather destroy greys than to have a pack full of decent items that I have to destroy to put an important item in.

    That's just my opinion and I am unanimous in that!

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,483

    Too often new games do something dumb just because previous games did the same thing in the same stupid way.  See, for example, the abundance of really awful crafting systems whose only real purpose seems to be to allow marketing to claim that the game has crafting.

    If you want to have something to break up the tedium of constantly fighting, then how about making it something interesting?  Is vendoring useless junk really all that interesting?  Really?

  • scottnsscottns Member UncommonPosts: 231

    Originally posted by Valerien

    this is how you made money back in Asheron's Call other than farming rare keys. People would run a plugin that would pop up loot that was worth at least **** value and was under *** weight and just farm mobs at the bottom of a dungeon for 30 minutes and pickup everything you could until you hit 300% encumbrance.

     

    Olthoi Eviscerator Lair runs, recall to rithwic I think it was, sell everything under 5k there for extra profit and to lose the extra weight, then sell rest where you plan on buying your MME notes. good times.

     

     

    lately most MMO's have turned vendor trash into something you break down for a raw resource (AC eventually did this too/first!).

    When I first played AC (about a month after release) I use to pick up apples off the ground from under an apple tree and sell them to make a few bucks.  Money was hard to come by early on in that game way before the events that Valerien descibed above.

  • TeiloTeilo Member Posts: 284

    Originally posted by Ayadori

    I think the single most ridiculous thing in MMOs is the ability to loot Plate Armor from turtles, swords from evil birds and so forth. Talk about immersion breakers ...

    The turtle ate the guy that was wearing it - the bird managed to escape its last fight by flying off, unfortunatly with a sword sticking out of it... Talk about lack of imagination.

    As for selling greys, they nicked a page out of Torchlight's book, it really isn't a  problem.

  • MimzelMimzel Member UncommonPosts: 375

    Greys cannot be anything more than a time sink. I suppose it's meant as some sort of roleplay function, but I'd argue that it cant be connected to roleplay of any value to the player. The simple reason is that the greys are GENERIC. If I hunt bugs why the hell would I get an insect antennae from every second or third mob. Or a rat paw? What kind of roleplayer would collect mucus..? 

    The greys also just add chaos to a players inventory. What to keep and what to sell? New players is probably unable to differensiate between valuable and invaluable items, and will toss away rare items to get some more slime in his bags... 

    Just give me the money and let me use tradeskills/harvesting skills to collect more valuable items (skins etc). 

  • Miles-ProwerMiles-Prower Member Posts: 1,106

    Remove grays from the game, yes. I never undestood the need to have Gray items in the game, other than superflous knick-knacks with silly flavor text. Just make mobs drop more currency and be done with it.

    Though I guess it does make people feel like they actually get rewarded for a kill, considering the fact that looting cash of the mob is usually done without even showing a loot window. I'm guessing it's more of a "Yeah, the mob had loot. Here you go" kind of thing.

     

    ~Miles "tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

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  • meddyckmeddyck Member UncommonPosts: 1,282

    Getting your companion to sell junk for you is a big improvement over your typical MMO with its frequent sell trips to NPC vendors. I'd prefer that only equippable items, crafting materials, or currency would drop though.

    DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer

  • computerlamecomputerlame Member Posts: 2

    This whole concent reminds me of one of my all time favorite miniatures from my pen & paper gaming days...

     

    http://www.solegends.com/citwf/rpwf3adventurer.jpg

  • maplestonemaplestone Member UncommonPosts: 3,099

    Originally posted by Mimzel



    If I hunt bugs why the hell would I get an insect antennae from every second or third mob. Or a rat paw? What kind of roleplayer would collect mucus..? 

     

    You obviously haven't met my pencil and paper RPG group.  I had a throwaway McGuffin where an apothecary asked for an exotic ingredient and from that point on the party started carving up every beast they defeated, carting it off to the biggest market town they could find and start haggling over the possible value of every tooth and spleen and bottle of ichor recovered.

  • RemainsRemains Member UncommonPosts: 375

    The grays are actually a favourite annoyance to me. image

    I guess theyre supposed to make the game seem more "real" and more immersive, it wouldnt make much sense if every random animal/monster/whatever dropped gear and coins. A boar dropping a "Torn Pelt" seems more realistic. Also, the stuff might be useless to YOU, but theres junkdealers and such that could use it as stuffing in a fancy armchair.

    The "people" who would have use for it just isnt the players. image

    This might be one of those things that separate the crowd who wants a Game (conveinent, cut-to-the-chase) versus those who want more of a World (immersive, "realistic" ).

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