The global cooldown...

Talemire

...should be either cut in half, taken off more abilities, or even both. It would make the combat much less clunky, much faster, and allow many more abilities to be deemed useful; most importantly, a more intense combat system which means more fun in general. Agree or disagree? Discuss.

Xasapis

Is it technically possible to do without it? Perhaps the game due to networking traffic needs it. I don't know. It's not a feature I like, although it helps avoid facerolling on the keyboard hitting buttons.

Ender4

WoW has the same GCD and isn't clunky like Rift, the issue is really the terrible animations and lackluster combat model more than the GCD. BOth games have simplified combat way too much, the strength of a GCD should be stressing strategy over interaction and both have dumbed the genre down to the point where there is no strategy left.

Archid

I dont mind the global cooldown.. It gives the combat animations time to complete. Personally i like the way the combat is now because it looks good. Other games that doesn't have it cuts the animations and start over a new one which makes it look glitchy and bad.

Talemire

Originally posted by Xasapis

Is it technically possible to do without it? Perhaps the game due to networking traffic needs it. I don't know. It's not a feature I like, although it helps avoid facerolling on the keyboard hitting buttons.

Even if some players did mash keys, that would just quickly expire their energy/mana bar, leaving them open for pwnage after they're done. If anything, removing the GCD would force players to choose abilities wisely and conserve.

Zzad

Originally posted by Ender4

WoW has the same GCD and isn't clunky like Rift, the issue is really the terrible animations and lackluster combat model more than the GCD. BOth games have simplified combat way too much, the strength of a GCD should be stressing strategy over interaction and both have dumbed the genre down to the point where there is no strategy left.

I disagree with your comment there is not strategy left....

I am playing Rift ,a Mage :Necromancer // Dominator // Chloromancer and i trully have a blast doing Dps,crowd control and healing at the same time. i can take care of 3 diferent things at the same time and requires my attention to sync all Cds,i just fun.

Maybe some ppl just use a combo of 1,2,3....but that is their fault,not the game´s when you have so many options and habilities to play with.

Xasapis

Simplified combat? I wonder what kind of game you're playing that the combat is "complex". I'll tell you what, give me Tera's directional combat and four abilities over whatever MMO you're thinking that has tons of them, so many that you probably macro your way to success.

Talemire

Originally posted by Archid

I dont mind the global cooldown.. It gives the combat animations time to complete. Personally i like the way the combat is now because it looks good. Other games that doesn't have it cuts the animations and start over a new one which makes it look glitchy and bad.

You can have good animations with a reduced GCD without compromising anything.

Vrika

Without GCD some instant cast abilities would be overpowered. It wouldn't make combat any better if using one button to launch all your instant cast abilities at once would be viable way to play the game.

Archid

Originally posted by Vrika

Without GCD some instant cast abilities would be overpowered. It wouldn't make combat any better if using one button to launch all your instant cast abilities at once would be viable way to play the game.

   ^ That

Ender4

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I disagree with your comment there is not strategy left....

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Ok obviously there is some strategy left but if you compare WOW or RIFT to a MUD the combat is more simplified than them. If you compare it to EQ or EQ2 etc it is more simplified as well (no pulling, less CC etc). GCD style combat is designed to mimic turn based combat from previous games and the strength of turn based combat is the level of strategic detail it brings as opposed to the tactical feel of real time combat. These games have lost the one thing that made a GCD system worth having, they have dumbed down the combat system way too far.

Xasapis

Actually it's not simple enough. Do you know when it'll be simple enough? When you won't need to stare at hotbars for cooldowns and actually look at the combat instead.

Or as a healer I won't have to develop a crosseye, having to check both the player bars and my surroundings.

The perfect place to be is what FPS are having, good gameplay that focuses on the environment and not the UI.

Talemire

Originally posted by Vrika

Without GCD some instant cast abilities would be overpowered. It wouldn't make combat any better if using one button to launch all your instant cast abilities at once would be viable way to play the game.

Obviously there would have to be some adjustments made to instant-cast abilities for that sole purpose. Not saying doing what I suggested in my first post was gonna be easy and without other tweaks along with it, just saying that it's something that should be considered.

Talemire

I'm not talking about removing the GCD all together, folks. I'm talking about tweaking the mechanics/usage of it to make combat more intense.

stayontarget

Originally posted by Archid

I dont mind the global cooldown.. It gives the combat animations time to complete. Personally i like the way the combat is now because it looks good. Other games that doesn't have it cuts the animations and start over a new one which makes it look glitchy and bad.

 And the combat animations are nothing more than fluff,  it has no bearing on the outcome of an encounter.  And that is just as worse as GC's. 

Xasapis

Originally posted by Talemire

Originally posted by Vrika

Without GCD some instant cast abilities would be overpowered. It wouldn't make combat any better if using one button to launch all your instant cast abilities at once would be viable way to play the game.

Obviously there would have to be some adjustments made to instant-cast abilities for that sole purpose. Not saying doing what I suggested in my first post was gonna be easy and without other tweaks along with it, just saying that it's something that should be considered.

We'd probably have to go from waiting for GCD to waiting for longer ability cooldowns.

Archid

Originally posted by Xasapis

Originally posted by Talemire

Originally posted by Vrika

Without GCD some instant cast abilities would be overpowered. It wouldn't make combat any better if using one button to launch all your instant cast abilities at once would be viable way to play the game.

Obviously there would have to be some adjustments made to instant-cast abilities for that sole purpose. Not saying doing what I suggested in my first post was gonna be easy and without other tweaks along with it, just saying that it's something that should be considered.

We'd probably have to go from waiting for GCD to waiting for longer ability cooldowns.

 Or better yet some awfull queue's :S

Talemire

Originally posted by Xasapis

Originally posted by Talemire

Originally posted by Vrika

Without GCD some instant cast abilities would be overpowered. It wouldn't make combat any better if using one button to launch all your instant cast abilities at once would be viable way to play the game.

Obviously there would have to be some adjustments made to instant-cast abilities for that sole purpose. Not saying doing what I suggested in my first post was gonna be easy and without other tweaks along with it, just saying that it's something that should be considered.

We'd probably have to go from waiting for GCD to waiting for longer ability cooldowns.

I'd buy that completely. Ok, let's say they do wipe the GCD and lengthen ability cooldowns. That would enlongate "rotations" and force players to use more abilities, make for a more complex combat system, and have multiple setups for various situations.

But I must add, as stated above, I also agree that so called "fluff" does indeed add to the immersion factor, and is necessary. They definitely couldn't cut corners there.

Xasapis

And now you come to the important bit. How do you counter alpha strikes. When initiating combat, none of your abilities are on cooldown. So you fire them all up for a devastating up front attack (alpha strike).

One way that was used is to also implement a pool of points that the attacks draw from. So if that pool is 100 points and two attacks use 40 each, you can't fire right after them a third attack for 60 points before that pool starts filling up.

Are we making it though a bit more complex that it could be?

xephonics

Originally posted by Talemire

Originally posted by Xasapis

Originally posted by Talemire

Originally posted by Vrika

Without GCD some instant cast abilities would be overpowered. It wouldn't make combat any better if using one button to launch all your instant cast abilities at once would be viable way to play the game.

Obviously there would have to be some adjustments made to instant-cast abilities for that sole purpose. Not saying doing what I suggested in my first post was gonna be easy and without other tweaks along with it, just saying that it's something that should be considered.

We'd probably have to go from waiting for GCD to waiting for longer ability cooldowns.

I'd buy that completely. Ok, let's say they do wipe the GCD and lengthen ability cooldowns. That would enlongate "rotations" and force players to use more abilities, make for a more complex combat system, and have multiple setups for various situations.

But I must add, as stated above, I also agree that so called "fluff" does indeed add to the immersion factor, and is necessary. They definitely couldn't cut corners there.

I easily use 8-10 abilities per fight, up to 14.  I REALLY don't feel I should have to use more than that

 

not 8-14 abilities on shitty mobs, but ones of my level or above and/or epic type mobs.

Scot

Global cooldown makes for a simpler system. But our games are not getting dumbed down...right.

Zimba

Originally posted by Talemire

Originally posted by Xasapis

Originally posted by Talemire

Originally posted by Vrika

Without GCD some instant cast abilities would be overpowered. It wouldn't make combat any better if using one button to launch all your instant cast abilities at once would be viable way to play the game.

Obviously there would have to be some adjustments made to instant-cast abilities for that sole purpose. Not saying doing what I suggested in my first post was gonna be easy and without other tweaks along with it, just saying that it's something that should be considered.

We'd probably have to go from waiting for GCD to waiting for longer ability cooldowns.

I'd buy that completely. Ok, let's say they do wipe the GCD and lengthen ability cooldowns. That would enlongate "rotations" and force players to use more abilities, make for a more complex combat system, and have multiple setups for various situations.

But I must add, as stated above, I also agree that so called "fluff" does indeed add to the immersion factor, and is necessary. They definitely couldn't cut corners there.

Has anyone played Bloodline Champions ? They have achieved this by removing mana/energy pools by making individual cooldowns for skills based on their power. I quite like the system, as it requires you to think ahead and not blow out all your important skills at the start of the fight, as you will soon realise you have your defensive skills on cooldown, and no way to escape/defend against an incoming attack.

jusomdude

I think pyromancer gets an ability later in the tree that lowers their gcd for a bit, and it's my main tree

Talemire

Originally posted by Xasapis

And now you come to the important bit. How do you counter alpha strikes. When initiating combat, none of your abilities are on cooldown. So you fire them all up for a devastating up front attack (alpha strike).

One way that was used is to also implement a pool of points that the attacks draw from. So if that pool is 100 points and two attacks use 40 each, you can't fire right after them a third attack for 60 points before that pool starts filling up.

Are we making it though a bit more complex that it could be?

Hmm, so when all are up at the start of the fight huh? Another good issue brought up. Well, ok, lets say someone sees you questing and decides to alpha strike you. After he's done, even if each ability costs 10-20 energy or a chunck of mana, they're going to be left with their pants down after it's all over (if you're not all over by the end of it). That was kind of a weak argument, but it truly is a girl or take thing. If even 2 or 3 abilities cost enough to exhaust a full pool, that sitll puts annoying gaps in the combat system.

All I have for that is make sure every player has some legit way to defend him/herself against alpha attacks, remove macros all together, or have a .5 or .25 sec GCD.

Talemire

Originally posted by jusomdude

I think pyromancer gets an ability later in the tree that lowers their gcd for a bit, and it's my main tree

LOL +1 I'm not a clothie type of guy, nor even leather, but between the the warrior and cleric class combos I've played with on the calculator, I managed to bump my head on a warrior build that actually doesn't have that big of an issue with GCD. Ironic huh? Not gonna share my build though since there is no such thing as cookie-cutter builds in this game lol.

Deathofsage

FFXI had no GCD, as example, but also had no instant cast spells (most/all abilities were instant but classes didn't have a large number of abilities). There was also a buffer in place that prevented spell stacking so /cast ability /cast ability wouldn't work in a macro but /cast /wait 1 /cast would work.

RIFT definitely should reconsider what is on the GCD and what is not. Interrupts should not be on the GCD and they are not. Taunts also should not be on the GCD, as well as charges. What's the purpose of giving a tank a charge if they can't immediately drop an aoe?