It has recently come to my attention that the president of the United States. Voted for HIMSELF
Try doing some research? There has not been a president in US History that has admitted the cowardly act of having to vote for himself. More often than not they do not vote for the office that they are running for, and if they do they will cast the vote for the opponent. Even in washington there is still some semblance of honor. Thank you for parroting the idiotic and factually incorrect statement that EA did.
Umm... it's a tradition. Them going into and out of the voting booth is usually even televised for PR.
Try doing some research?
I'm sure you're going to come back with some crazy unfounded claims that you prentend to know, and probably actually believe... but lets just don't. Ok?
They can rate it high what they want its still a crap game and they won't get my money lol.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
It has recently come to my attention that the president of the United States. Voted for HIMSELF
Try doing some research? There has not been a president in US History that has admitted the cowardly act of having to vote for himself. More often than not they do not vote for the office that they are running for, and if they do they will cast the vote for the opponent. Even in washington there is still some semblance of honor. Thank you for parroting the idiotic and factually incorrect statement that EA did.
I nearly shot soda out of my nose!
Played: Asheron's Call(still the best fantasy MMO!), EQ1, EQ2, Vanguard, DAoC, Horizons, City of Heroes/Villians, WoW (crap), LOTORO, D&D Online, Eve, Anarchy Online, and still playing SWG daily.
Just a bit off topic here for a second... folks DO realize that all content, including commentary regarding content, is largely a joint promotion, right? That folks who review games, will choose the games they review based on the interest in those games?
And that maybe, JUST MAYBE... this employee actually likes the game?
I wonder if any of those other reviewers work for Bethesda?
Sure, it's fair to say that the dude is gonna be biased to a degree, but methinx the folks seeing a conspiracy are overreacting just a tad bit. I suppose that's the nature of their beast.
Just a bit off topic here for a second... folks DO realize that all content, including commentary regarding content, is largely a joint promotion, right? That folks who review games, will choose the games they review based on the interest in those games?
And that maybe, JUST MAYBE... this employee actually likes the game?
I wonder if any of those other reviewers work for Bethesda?
Sure, it's fair to say that the dude is gonna be biased to a degree, but methinx the folks seeing a conspiracy are overreacting just a tad bit. I suppose that's the nature of their beast.
It IS a violation of FTC regulations to endorse/review a product produced by a company you are affiliated with (or which you've recieved compensation to endorse) without disclosing that nature of your relationship with the company. Besides being simply unethical....it can be considered a form of fraud....and that's been upheld in court decisions.
Bottom line.... what he did would have been fine, had he simple included a "P.S. I work for Bioware" at the end of his review.
It has recently come to my attention that the president of the United States. Voted for HIMSELF
Try doing some research? There has not been a president in US History that has admitted the cowardly act of having to vote for himself. More often than not they do not vote for the office that they are running for, and if they do they will cast the vote for the opponent. Even in washington there is still some semblance of honor. Thank you for parroting the idiotic and factually incorrect statement that EA did.
"Honor" in Washington??? You work for DHS or some such? ^^ Research is all fine and great. But make certain of your sources. But especially make sure that you think about the results, and the implications. This is VERY much a tempest in a tea pot. The people who are hysterical about this are all too typical of todays general population. A review, is simply the OPINION of the person involved. Nothing more, nothing less. That one of Biowares people has an opinion on one of their games, shouldn't be some shocking revelation.
I have to call a "who cares" on this, the fact remains it is a good game, and who is to say that the guy had no part in making it and played it on release, liked it and wrote a summary on it just like everyone else?
----
The game is exeptional on pc compared to consoles though.
If you go by his past jobs from the Linkedin screenshot then this is, I think, his first job at a game company.
He possibly spend extraordinary amounts of overtime being a small cog in the machine that created the game. After having spend so much time on that product which was the first professional game he was involved in he saw it getting bad reviews. He played it himself and probably recognised some small system he spend hours working on that worked smoothly and was ( rightfully so ) quite happy with it. Being dissapointed that the rest of the world didn't see it he went online, made a metacritic account and give himself a good vote.
Hell I'd do the same.
It's like a writer who just published his first book going to the book store, ordering 10 copies and never coming back just so the store will have 10 copies in stock. It's not the most gracious thing around but cut him some slack, after having probably worked his ass off with more overtime then most people will ever see he deserves a single '10' vote, even if it's only from himself.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
I'm going to have to second the "who cares" sentiment.... If it is in fact the same guy, which no one has proven that I have seen, then maybe he should have mentioned he worked for Bioware in the review. Other than that I don't see anything wrong.
Obviously he wasn't trying to be a shill or he would have created a fake profile and not used a name tied directly to his real name.
Did anyone stop to think that maybe he *gasp* likes the game?
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Not really surprising, I'm sure lots of game companies have this happen. I do think its funny how the user review and the "critic" reviews are so conflicting though. Their both off though imo, the critic reviews are way to positive, adn the user reviews overly negative, probably because of dissapointment leading after da:o. It wasn't as good, but it wasn't horrible. Nothing really stood out at all about the game, was very average, even lacking compared to others rpg's. I'd give it around a 7.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Thank God there are heroes out there to find out this kind of information. I'm relatively sure this enormous scandal will bring down the corrupt corporation- heck I bet we see a visible decline in sales of the game simply related to this sluthing. I was so naive, I never until I saw this thought that someone might actually be proud of their own work. I know personally, I have never been proud enough of anything I've done to defend my work and this should be the same for anyone - especially if they are trying to swindle me into buying something so important as a video game - I can see swindling people for their life savings, I can understand abusing child labor laws - but being proud enough of a video game to post about it.....how low can you go.
Well again, thank God someone took the time right this evil of the world. Your priorities are truly well based.
Thank God there are heroes out there to find out this kind of information. I'm relatively sure this enormous scandal will bring down the corrupt corporation- heck I bet we see a visible decline in sales of the game simply related to this sluthing. I was so naive, I never until I saw this thought that someone might actually be proud of their own work. I know personally, I have never been proud enough of anything I've done to defend my work and this should be the same for anyone - especially if they are trying to swindle me into buying something so important as a video game - I can see swindling people for their life savings, I can understand abusing child labor laws - but being proud enough of a video game to post about it.....how low can you go.
Well again, thank God someone took the time right this evil of the world. Your priorities are truly well based.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If he acted on his own volition, he's in the clear. But if Bioware orchestrated employees to post anonymous reviews then it's considered fraud.
"In online astroturfing, employees like those at Lifestyle Lift pose as independent consumers to post positive web reviews about their own company."
Cuomo’s office said these phoney reviews
“ …constitute deceptive commercial practices, false advertising and fraudulent and illegal conduct under New York and federal consumer protection law.”
If he acted on his own volition, he's in the clear. But if Bioware orchestrated employees to post anonymous reviews then it's considered fraud.
"In online astroturfing, employees like those at Lifestyle Lift pose as independent consumers to post positive web reviews about their own company."
Cuomo’s office said these phoney reviews
“ …constitute deceptive commercial practices, false advertising and fraudulent and illegal conduct under New York and federal consumer protection law.”
Oh I know. There is a possibility they 'technically' committed fraud.
And going 2 miles over the speed limit is a legal violation.
So is jaywalking.
And your evidence in no way could cause a reasonable person to assume that this is enough evidence to suspect an 'orchestrated' act of fraud on the part of Bioware.
What is more reasonable to assume?
A. One guy at bioware suffered a weak moment and decided to post positive things about his game in a relatively obscure way and at most had his boss say 'hey man, think before you post'
-or-
B. This one positive post about his game in this relatively obscure site shows beyond a reasonable shadow of a doubt that Bioware has conducted a mass fraud campaign to scew their game's rating
I mean really - find a new hobby, there is actual fraud going on in the world which would be much better time spent then trying to uncover an advertising scam for a video game.
But, that is my humble opinion - go ahead and get those windmills, Don Quixote, follow your dream.
I'm pretty sure Bioware could find a pile of cow pie, color it gold, and then put a rainbow of colors on it...and then sell it. The critics would still give it glowing reviews and how it revolutionizes cow pies, because it has a rainbow of colors on it. The fans would then buy it by the millions, due to being that Bioware could do no wrong.
Check out my nature/animal/relaxing music channel on Youtube!
LMAO! Whoever did the investigating and found this, hats off to you. I always enjoy when a major company, or an employee of such, gets caught doing something shameless and/or underhanded in the name of profits. I have not heard good things about DA: 2, and stunts like this to try and boost sales in any way possible are just pathetic. Between this, and some of the things I've seen surrounding ToR, Bioware's reputationis taking something of a hit lately.
If he acted on his own volition, he's in the clear. But if Bioware orchestrated employees to post anonymous reviews then it's considered fraud.
"In online astroturfing, employees like those at Lifestyle Lift pose as independent consumers to post positive web reviews about their own company."
Cuomo’s office said these phoney reviews
“ …constitute deceptive commercial practices, false advertising and fraudulent and illegal conduct under New York and federal consumer protection law.”
Oh I know. There is a possibility they 'technically' committed fraud.
And going 2 miles over the speed limit is a legal violation.
So is jaywalking.
And your evidence in no way could cause a reasonable person to assume that this is enough evidence to suspect an 'orchestrated' act of fraud on the part of Bioware.
What is more reasonable to assume?
A. One guy at bioware suffered a weak moment and decided to post positive things about his game in a relatively obscure way and at most had his boss say 'hey man, think before you post'
-or-
B. This one positive post about his game in this relatively obscure site shows beyond a reasonable shadow of a doubt that Bioware has conducted a mass fraud campaign to scew their game's rating
I mean really - find a new hobby, there is actual fraud going on in the world which would be much better time spent then trying to uncover an advertising scam for a video game.
But, that is my humble opinion - go ahead and get those windmills, Don Quixote, follow your dream.
A and B. There was more than one suspicious user review removed. So the possibility that more than one employee was involved is definitely there. Was it coincidence that two employees from the same company both gave 10/10 reviews anonymously on the same ratings site?
I only posted the original link because I thought it relevent to the forum and would make for interesting conversation. I didn't "uncover the advertising scam", nor am I Don Quixote. I'm not sure why your personalizing this.
A and B. There was more than one suspicious user review removed. So the possibility that more than one employee was involved is definitely there. Was it coincidence that two employees from the same company both gave 10/10 reviews anonymously on the same ratings site?
Statistics tell us that it's actually pretty likely to be coincidence. 2 employees out of likely 100 employees does not make for statistical significance.
Rolling one six on a die does not chance your chances on rolling another six on the next throw. The chance is still 1/6th.
Having one employee post a positive review does not chance the chances of having another employee post a positive review as well.
For it to have any more of significance you'd need at least more then 10 employees, and even then it's not a certainty. Much like rolling 10 sixes in a row would make you doubt the fairness of the die but could still be just good luck ( or bad luck ).
Not to forget that you'd also need some sort of neutral gaming company to compare it to. What's to say that it's not average for gaming companies to have about 2-3 employees posting positive reviews on their own games?
That being said it was relevant to the forum and definitely made for interesting conversation. Thanks for posting it. Not arguing against you, merely arguing against anyone thinking that this makes for any kind of proof at all.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
There is supposed to be a line between a review and marketing bullsh**. One of the main gripes I have with this site is that the new crew of "reviewers" loves everything (that is advertised on the site) and only will slam f2p asian titles.
Be careful on that one, they swing the ban hammer fast around here when anyone questions the "ethics" of the reviewers here.
Even tho it is clear that 1. This site reviews games that it is paid to advertise, and 2. Almost all of those reviews do their best to "accentuate the positive" and "minmize" or omit the negative.
I no longer put any stock in the reviews of this site, I have been relying more on the composite score of metacritic as time has gone on.
Which is why something like this is problematic. It is not new that these sites are an extension of the marketing arms of different publishers, which is why metacritic has become, for some, the go to source to get an idea of the quality or lackthereof concerning different titles. If the publishers and developers are purposefully pouring their marketing drivel into metacritic then that is borderline fraud because they are putting forth information with the intent of pushing you to buy it. Now, that is not unlike advertisements, however there are laws which prevent companies from portraying themselves as an uninterested third party in an effort to part you from your money.
unless someone is paying them under the table you will find most if not all games advertised here are common on the market place for ads most sites do not pick and choose who they advertise. It is done either by a service to add advetisements based on page views or just randomly cycled through by a similar agencies' html. So you all can take off the tin foil hats now. I hate when people comment on things they are ignorant of.
There is supposed to be a line between a review and marketing bullsh**. One of the main gripes I have with this site is that the new crew of "reviewers" loves everything (that is advertised on the site) and only will slam f2p asian titles.
Be careful on that one, they swing the ban hammer fast around here when anyone questions the "ethics" of the reviewers here.
Even tho it is clear that 1. This site reviews games that it is paid to advertise, and 2. Almost all of those reviews do their best to "accentuate the positive" and "minmize" or omit the negative.
I no longer put any stock in the reviews of this site, I have been relying more on the composite score of metacritic as time has gone on.
Which is why something like this is problematic. It is not new that these sites are an extension of the marketing arms of different publishers, which is why metacritic has become, for some, the go to source to get an idea of the quality or lackthereof concerning different titles. If the publishers and developers are purposefully pouring their marketing drivel into metacritic then that is borderline fraud because they are putting forth information with the intent of pushing you to buy it. Now, that is not unlike advertisements, however there are laws which prevent companies from portraying themselves as an uninterested third party in an effort to part you from your money.
unless someone is paying them under the table you will find most if not all games advertised here are common on the market place for ads most sites do not pick and choose who they advertise. It is done either by a service to add advetisements based on page views or just randomly cycled through by a similar agencies' html. So you all can take off the tin foil hats now. I hate when people comment on things they are ignorant of.
This is patently incorrect.
Staff on this site have explictly come out and confirmed they directly sell advertising space to the game publishers, on several occasions. At the same time, they have asserted that directly selling ad space does not influence review scores or editorial content.
Whether a person believes this to be true or not, my previous statements stand and are correct.
Trying to minimize this by making personal attacks and playing the tin-foil hat card are unwarranted and only make a person look silly.
I can think of few other industries where "news" organizations or entities that review a product also accept advertising money from the people whose products they are reviewing. Twice as much without disclaiming it.
In my industry (financial services) such things are not even considered, and people that get caught doing it usually face legal sanction. Conflict of interest is a bad thing....
Comments
Bioware has largely been unable to accept criticism even back when I posted on the forums during NWN days.
This is pretty low.
Umm... it's a tradition. Them going into and out of the voting booth is usually even televised for PR.
Try doing some research?
I'm sure you're going to come back with some crazy unfounded claims that you prentend to know, and probably actually believe... but lets just don't. Ok?
Got a Game Idea? Look Here!
Surely I'm not the only one that sees the distinct difference in what the Bioware employee did and a president voting?
They can rate it high what they want its still a crap game and they won't get my money lol.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
This is nothing compared to the mess that Topware is in for trying to bribe game critics with paid for advertising. (Two Worlds 2)
I nearly shot soda out of my nose!
Played: Asheron's Call(still the best fantasy MMO!), EQ1, EQ2, Vanguard, DAoC, Horizons, City of Heroes/Villians, WoW (crap), LOTORO, D&D Online, Eve, Anarchy Online, and still playing SWG daily.
Indeedy.
Just a bit off topic here for a second... folks DO realize that all content, including commentary regarding content, is largely a joint promotion, right? That folks who review games, will choose the games they review based on the interest in those games?
And that maybe, JUST MAYBE... this employee actually likes the game?
I wonder if any of those other reviewers work for Bethesda?
Sure, it's fair to say that the dude is gonna be biased to a degree, but methinx the folks seeing a conspiracy are overreacting just a tad bit. I suppose that's the nature of their beast.
It IS a violation of FTC regulations to endorse/review a product produced by a company you are affiliated with (or which you've recieved compensation to endorse) without disclosing that nature of your relationship with the company. Besides being simply unethical....it can be considered a form of fraud....and that's been upheld in court decisions.
Bottom line.... what he did would have been fine, had he simple included a "P.S. I work for Bioware" at the end of his review.
"Honor" in Washington??? You work for DHS or some such? ^^ Research is all fine and great. But make certain of your sources. But especially make sure that you think about the results, and the implications. This is VERY much a tempest in a tea pot. The people who are hysterical about this are all too typical of todays general population. A review, is simply the OPINION of the person involved. Nothing more, nothing less. That one of Biowares people has an opinion on one of their games, shouldn't be some shocking revelation.
I have to call a "who cares" on this, the fact remains it is a good game, and who is to say that the guy had no part in making it and played it on release, liked it and wrote a summary on it just like everyone else?
----
The game is exeptional on pc compared to consoles though.
I bet Chris is getting totally teased at work right now.
"Hey Chris, you know that place you recommended for lunch? You don't work there do you?"
That's probably the most that will come of it.
So what?
If you go by his past jobs from the Linkedin screenshot then this is, I think, his first job at a game company.
He possibly spend extraordinary amounts of overtime being a small cog in the machine that created the game. After having spend so much time on that product which was the first professional game he was involved in he saw it getting bad reviews. He played it himself and probably recognised some small system he spend hours working on that worked smoothly and was ( rightfully so ) quite happy with it. Being dissapointed that the rest of the world didn't see it he went online, made a metacritic account and give himself a good vote.
Hell I'd do the same.
It's like a writer who just published his first book going to the book store, ordering 10 copies and never coming back just so the store will have 10 copies in stock. It's not the most gracious thing around but cut him some slack, after having probably worked his ass off with more overtime then most people will ever see he deserves a single '10' vote, even if it's only from himself.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
I'm going to have to second the "who cares" sentiment.... If it is in fact the same guy, which no one has proven that I have seen, then maybe he should have mentioned he worked for Bioware in the review. Other than that I don't see anything wrong.
Obviously he wasn't trying to be a shill or he would have created a fake profile and not used a name tied directly to his real name.
Did anyone stop to think that maybe he *gasp* likes the game?
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
This.
I think that's the case too.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Thank God there are heroes out there to find out this kind of information. I'm relatively sure this enormous scandal will bring down the corrupt corporation- heck I bet we see a visible decline in sales of the game simply related to this sluthing. I was so naive, I never until I saw this thought that someone might actually be proud of their own work. I know personally, I have never been proud enough of anything I've done to defend my work and this should be the same for anyone - especially if they are trying to swindle me into buying something so important as a video game - I can see swindling people for their life savings, I can understand abusing child labor laws - but being proud enough of a video game to post about it.....how low can you go.
Well again, thank God someone took the time right this evil of the world. Your priorities are truly well based.
Awesome post.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If he acted on his own volition, he's in the clear. But if Bioware orchestrated employees to post anonymous reviews then it's considered fraud.
"In online astroturfing, employees like those at Lifestyle Lift pose as independent consumers to post positive web reviews about their own company."
Cuomo’s office said these phoney reviews
“ …constitute deceptive commercial practices, false advertising and fraudulent and illegal conduct under New York and federal consumer protection law.”
Oh I know. There is a possibility they 'technically' committed fraud.
And going 2 miles over the speed limit is a legal violation.
So is jaywalking.
And your evidence in no way could cause a reasonable person to assume that this is enough evidence to suspect an 'orchestrated' act of fraud on the part of Bioware.
What is more reasonable to assume?
A. One guy at bioware suffered a weak moment and decided to post positive things about his game in a relatively obscure way and at most had his boss say 'hey man, think before you post'
-or-
B. This one positive post about his game in this relatively obscure site shows beyond a reasonable shadow of a doubt that Bioware has conducted a mass fraud campaign to scew their game's rating
I mean really - find a new hobby, there is actual fraud going on in the world which would be much better time spent then trying to uncover an advertising scam for a video game.
But, that is my humble opinion - go ahead and get those windmills, Don Quixote, follow your dream.
I'm pretty sure Bioware could find a pile of cow pie, color it gold, and then put a rainbow of colors on it...and then sell it. The critics would still give it glowing reviews and how it revolutionizes cow pies, because it has a rainbow of colors on it. The fans would then buy it by the millions, due to being that Bioware could do no wrong.
Check out my nature/animal/relaxing music channel on Youtube!
My game channel on Youtube!
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LMAO! Whoever did the investigating and found this, hats off to you. I always enjoy when a major company, or an employee of such, gets caught doing something shameless and/or underhanded in the name of profits. I have not heard good things about DA: 2, and stunts like this to try and boost sales in any way possible are just pathetic. Between this, and some of the things I've seen surrounding ToR, Bioware's reputationis taking something of a hit lately.
A and B. There was more than one suspicious user review removed. So the possibility that more than one employee was involved is definitely there. Was it coincidence that two employees from the same company both gave 10/10 reviews anonymously on the same ratings site?
I only posted the original link because I thought it relevent to the forum and would make for interesting conversation. I didn't "uncover the advertising scam", nor am I Don Quixote. I'm not sure why your personalizing this.
Statistics tell us that it's actually pretty likely to be coincidence. 2 employees out of likely 100 employees does not make for statistical significance.
Rolling one six on a die does not chance your chances on rolling another six on the next throw. The chance is still 1/6th.
Having one employee post a positive review does not chance the chances of having another employee post a positive review as well.
For it to have any more of significance you'd need at least more then 10 employees, and even then it's not a certainty. Much like rolling 10 sixes in a row would make you doubt the fairness of the die but could still be just good luck ( or bad luck ).
Not to forget that you'd also need some sort of neutral gaming company to compare it to. What's to say that it's not average for gaming companies to have about 2-3 employees posting positive reviews on their own games?
That being said it was relevant to the forum and definitely made for interesting conversation. Thanks for posting it. Not arguing against you, merely arguing against anyone thinking that this makes for any kind of proof at all.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
unless someone is paying them under the table you will find most if not all games advertised here are common on the market place for ads most sites do not pick and choose who they advertise. It is done either by a service to add advetisements based on page views or just randomly cycled through by a similar agencies' html. So you all can take off the tin foil hats now. I hate when people comment on things they are ignorant of.
This is patently incorrect.
Staff on this site have explictly come out and confirmed they directly sell advertising space to the game publishers, on several occasions. At the same time, they have asserted that directly selling ad space does not influence review scores or editorial content.
Whether a person believes this to be true or not, my previous statements stand and are correct.
Trying to minimize this by making personal attacks and playing the tin-foil hat card are unwarranted and only make a person look silly.
I can think of few other industries where "news" organizations or entities that review a product also accept advertising money from the people whose products they are reviewing. Twice as much without disclaiming it.
In my industry (financial services) such things are not even considered, and people that get caught doing it usually face legal sanction. Conflict of interest is a bad thing....