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What is an optimal level cap for an MMO in your opinion?
blognorg
Member UncommonPosts: 643
For me, a game with a low level cap is a little bit of a turn off. I'm kind of old school in the sense that I enjoy level progression more than end-game content. Personally, I would probably go with 100. It's not so low that levels would take too long to achieve, yet allows for some a solid amount of time before the cap is reached..... but not so much time that I can never imagining reaching it. I've thought about no cap, but it's nice to have something to shoot for.
Let me know that you guys think.
Comments
Since I like PvE.. 200 for me would be nice.
"Levels" (And "classes") are a horrible concept that MMOs need to throw in the fire ASAP.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Time invested > lvl cap?
i mean you can have a lvl cap of 100 but if it takes you 10 minutes opposing to a lvl cap of 50 wich takes you 2 weeks. the lower lvl cap would be better then ?
you should rephrase you question i geus. How long should it take to reach the lvl cap
I agree with xeniar. Number of levels means absolutely nothing. What matters is:
How long does it take to get from level 1 to the cap?
How much does your power increase with each level up?
How 'bout 3446?
-Just kidding. I agree with xeniar and Disdena. The number is completely arbitrary and unimportant.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
totally agree.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Same here. However, for some reason, that is all people know and they seem to defend it like it is written in stone that it must be "levels" or nothing else works.
Let's party like it is 1863!
lvl cap of 10. Reached during tutorial.
It comes down to what does one replace levels with as a carrot that will keep players? The game has to have a reason to keep players and leveling is one of the easiest to implement.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
This
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Tested over a 115+ games since 1997.
Currently Playing:
Played(Retired): AOL NWN(91-95), UO, EQ1/2, DAoC, CoX, Lineage1/2, SWG(Pre CU/NGE), Planetside, Anarchy Online, FFXI, AC, Vanguard, D&D, AoC, DCUO, Rift, Eve, others
'Cap' is just a word. You can give a game a cap of level 100, but if you can hit it by killling only 100 mobs, it's just a useless effort. Same as level 10. It could take you 100 hours of gameplay to hit it :-D
You should have asked how long it'll take to reach the cap in grininghours... Then I'd say as long as possible (3 months of straigth play is the minimum I want).
I would say skill based progress with added special abilities when certain prerequisites are met, but that is hard to implement without running into tons of possible exploits.
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How about fun? And to all ppl liking lvls go play progress quest. progress quest is in same difficulty as most morpgs, and removed 1,2,3,tab. Also have same thing the more you spend time the higher lvl is.
Humor me for a minute.
We're playing a game with no levels. It's your first day playing. I've been playing for two years. We form a group and kill an ogre. Do I get any reward for the kill? Do you?
It should take 3-6 months of casual leveling to achieve the max level for one class. After that, 2 months at most for the subsequent classes.
The level cap should be at least 50, with progressively introducing the player to various gameplay features for every 5 levels gained. Main story at level 1, main way to progress at level 2, sidequests at level 10, more mainstory and sidequests until level 20 (this is the 'tutorial' and thus takes less time to complete). At level 20 you get to do quests that flesh out the storyline of your class. At level 25 you are introduced to guilds (and are encouraged to join one). At level 25 you can also do the first side-event such as instanced dungeon. At level 30 you get to specialize further in your chosen class (all the while you can change classes anytime you want but start at level 1). At level 35 you are introduced to a larger "group" of guilds but can not join one yet. Instead you can participate in the NPC-based PvE content of the system (that acts like a pseudo-"dynamic" content). At level 40 you can join the player-run group of guilds and gain access to their headquarters as well as guild-based PvE content. At level 45 you get to participate in the guild-based PvP content against other group of guilds.
All the while the main story as well as the class-based quests continue roughly every 5 levels, and the normal sidequests every 2 levels or so.
As I stated in another thread. What is fun to one is grind to another so what makes it fun for the majority?
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
GW 1 had 20 levels, and it was a turn off for me, guess I like my PVE progression too much.
That said, I really enjoyed EVE's no level design, but not every MMO can (or should) be a sandbox.
If you're going to make an "end-game" that has significantly different activities than what a person does while leveling up, then don't make it too high, 40, 50, or 60 seems right, assuming the average player (whatever that is) can burn through it in 2-3 months.
If you remove the end game concept, then the sky's the limit, let the levels go up to 150+ , especially if you make it so that level's aren't the be all end all in determining player power when doing PVP. In other words, 2 or 3 level 80's should be able to take down a level 150 in pvp combat and a swarm of level 20's should be somnething to fear even at the upper levels.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
as an old school player i would go about 100 to 150 lvls.
Make it so hard that the hcore player would need a month to get there so we normal (read casual) players get about 1 year of lvling goodness.
This way towns wont be crowded with max lvl players who just do endgame (grinds) and be bored for the rest of the time.
At least they would have been busy for the first month(s).
thats my tought on it.
but thats way too hard for you youngsters out there hehe.
They call rushing to lvl cap in a week HC these days too......hehe it took me TWO MONTHS (2 hours every evening) of fishing to get my GM (100) fishing skill (thats the max skill for fishing in UO in the old days
)
lolz
One thing I just can't seem to understand is why one chest drops when you're grouped. I think in a game there should be a chest drop for everyone in the group so what chest you click on is not what chest I click on. It is pure random so you get random drops and I would get random drops. Probably make grouping worth the effort too since there be many more drops.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Yeh but it also depends on how slow or fast lvling go hehe.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Agreed. It' was broken when it was used for PnP and it's even more broken now that we've gone well beyond a 12-14 level cap.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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People "defend" the level concept nowadays because, in fact, for the majority it IS all they know. WoW has done one thing good for the MMO genre, and that's being the "Entry Gate" to the MMO genre for so many NEW people. Unfortunately, it means these "NEW" people think WoW did it first (or best) than anyone else. Therefore, they believe lvls are the ONLY way to go, not knowing what else came WELL before WoW that did better that never used levels.
Don't fret however, we have MANY MMO's on the horizon that are completely ignoring levels & going with an SWG skill system that is lvl-less. Hopefully we'll be out of the "Dark Times" for MMOs in the next 2years.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Get rid of Levels.
Get rid of Classes.
Add Skill
Add Time invested
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Optimum is 125+32 levels.
On the same note optimal temperature of beer is 231 Tyrrhons.
in the pencil and paper rpgs of the 70s/80s most of them were based on level systems
but there were other games with "point systems" like GURPS and Champions
that focused more on improved stats / abilities and NO LEVELS at all
Ultima Online didnt use levels or classes and I'm confident other future games wont use levels
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