Yet another point where people want it gone but offer nothing sensible to replace it. Unless you absolutely mean that a player, stripped naked whose played and maxed out for 2 years should be no more powerful than a player who just signed up.
Levels also represent a barrier to rightfully restrict access to content. "The mobs in here will one shot this guy? He's got no reason to even try to tank it. Save the embarrassment, save the hate, he can't come in because he's too low."
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Yet another point where people want it gone but offer nothing sensible to replace it. Unless you absolutely mean that a player, stripped naked whose played and maxed out for 2 years should be no more powerful than a player who just signed up.
Levels also represent a barrier to rightfully restrict access to content. "The mobs in here will one shot this guy? He's got no reason to even try to tank it. Save the embarrassment, save the hate, he can't come in because he's too low."
There's plenty of ways to get rid of the level cap... such as, you get rid of it! Completely!
You just make levelling much slower the higher you get, and you make the stat increases mean less and less. You let everyone progress forever.
What does everyone think about having a fairly high level cap that takes some time and effort, but yeilding really good rewards for reaching it? Things like: free months, reduced experience needed on your next play through or unlockable races that play much differently than the initial ones offered.
Yet another point where people want it gone but offer nothing sensible to replace it. Unless you absolutely mean that a player, stripped naked whose played and maxed out for 2 years should be no more powerful than a player who just signed up.
Levels also represent a barrier to rightfully restrict access to content. "The mobs in here will one shot this guy? He's got no reason to even try to tank it. Save the embarrassment, save the hate, he can't come in because he's too low."
There's plenty of ways to get rid of the level cap... such as, you get rid of it! Completely!
You just make levelling much slower the higher you get, and you make the stat increases mean less and less. You let everyone progress forever.
Didn't mean level cap, sorry. Meant "levels".
But more on this, levels also present an obvious indicator to not-incredibly-dumb players whether they have a remote chance of taking an enemy down or not.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
For me the hope /chance to keep improving my character in an rpg and mmorpg is essential.
There are few ways to ensure that the a continual infinite improvement of your character keep going without having a cap.
1.Random generated dungeons with random generated loot and random generted lvl on the items dropoed via a pool +- 10 lvl below and above characters lvls.
2.Item drops that can raise the rank of special skills ..if for example you have a rank 5 raptor strike and u get lucky to find this item drop that can raise your raptor strike to rank 6.. (aka sacred)
3.Special runes,fragment whatever u want to name them drops that permanently can raise an attribuute of yours..
Ther are many things that developers could implement in an mmorpg to keep the character advancement system alive like forever if they wish to. And in my opinion thats the key to an mmorpg to be ethistic and keep players itrest in high lvls.
Some ofc can claim that such things could lead to unbalance etc etc.
To those i will point out as example wow. Blizzard made it to the point to completely cutter players choise on even their own talent trees. They are completely restricted concerning choises ,players cant even experiment with combining talent trees to discover new combos of trees. And all this for what? for balance. And what blizzard achieve? NOTHING.WOW forums are full of complains about imbalanced classes, they keep nerfing and changing classes every 2 months and every 2 months all they do is keep 2-3 classes overpowered. All they do is boose some classes every once in a while so they keep players as less dissapointed as they could.
So dont give me the balance crap excuse. Balance and unbalance will always be there . In my opinion all that matters in an rpg mmo or not is the fun of a deep and full of potential of creating multiple paths of progression for your character.
For me the hope /chance to keep improving my character in an rpg and mmorpg is essential.
There are few ways to ensure that the a continual infinite improvement of your character keep going without having a cap.
1.Random generated dungeons with random generated loot and random generted lvl on the items dropoed via a pool +- 10 lvl below and above characters lvls.
2.Item drops that can raise the rank of special skills ..if for example you have a rank 5 raptor strike and u get lucky to find this item drop that can raise your raptor strike to rank 6.. (aka sacred)
3.Special runes,fragment whatever u want to name them drops that permanently can raise an attribuute of yours..
Ther are many things that developers could implement in an mmorpg to keep the character advancement system alive like forever if they wish to. And in my opinion thats the key to an mmorpg to be ethistic and keep players itrest in high lvls.
Some ofc can claim that such things could lead to unbalance etc etc.
To those i will point out as example wow. Blizzard made it to the point to completely cutter players choise on even their own talent trees. They are completely restricted concerning choises ,players cant even experiment with combining talent trees to discover new combos of trees. And all this for what? for balance. And what blizzard achieve? NOTHING.WOW forums are full of complains about imbalanced classes, they keep nerfing and changing classes every 2 months and every 2 months all they do is keep 2-3 classes overpowered. All they do is boose some classes every once in a while so they keep players as less dissapointed as they could.
So dont give me the balance crap excuse. Balance and unbalance will always be there . In my opinion all that matters in an rpg mmo or not is the fun of a deep and full of potential of creating multiple paths of progression for your character.
This is what D2 is. Very addictive game play too.
Like others have said here removing the levels/skill ups altogether and replacing it with more meaningful carrots would break the players away form the mind set that levels are the end all of game play.
I don’t think random dungeons are absolute must but number two and three could be a major driving force.
Right now I am not sure anyone really has the answer to doing this because player expectations are so varied. A game with no levels has to be designed and built from the ground up.
"Levels" are definately THE worst "game-mechanic" that exist today.
Freedom FTW!
they are also one of the main reasons games have balancing issues.. levels is ok for PVE games, but for PVP, its a nightmare. which is why i think that level based games use lazy game mechanics
"Levels" are definately THE worst "game-mechanic" that exist today.
Freedom FTW!
they are also one of the main reasons games have balancing issues.. levels is ok for PVE games, but for PVP, its a nightmare. which is why i think that level based games use lazy game mechanics
I might ask you to elaborate.
Why do you feel levels cause balancing issues?
Why are they a nightmare for PvP?
When you talk about systems with no levels, are you referring to games like EVE or Darkfall, or do you have something else in mind?
The actual level cap is irrelevant. Whats important is how much is gained each level, how fast progressing from one level is to the next, how much fun it is ataining that next level and how big of a gap it creates between you and others.
Whether the cap is 2 or 2000 is really irrelevant, the factors above are far more important than some arbitrary number.
In any case levels really aren't my thing. Games need to get rid of them all together. I'd rather my advancement with my char be a noticible difference in performance rather than have some number telling me I'm getting better and when I'm due to get better again.
If at level 1 I'm struggling to take out a goblin with a fireball and then later I'm able to dispatch them 5 at a time with that same fireball I really don't need a level 5 in the corner of my screen showing me I'm making progress. If I have more skills or spells than I had before I again don't need some level in the corner of my screen showing me that I've progressed.
But I can accept that I am in the minority and others really do want and need to see those little numbers.
The actual level cap is irrelevant. Whats important is how much is gained each level, how fast progressing from one level is to the next, how much fun it is ataining that next level and how big of a gap it creates between you and others.
Whether the cap is 2 or 2000 is really irrelevant, the factors above are far more important than some arbitrary number.
In any case levels really aren't my thing. Games need to get rid of them all together. I'd rather my advancement with my char be a noticible difference in performance rather than have some number telling me I'm getting better and when I'm due to get better again.
If at level 1 I'm struggling to take out a goblin with a fireball and then later I'm able to dispatch them 5 at a time with that same fireball I really don't need a level 5 in the corner of my screen showing me I'm making progress. If I have more skills or spells than I had before I again don't need some level in the corner of my screen showing me that I've progressed.
But I can accept that I am in the minority and others really do want and need to see those little numbers.
I disagree that the number of levels is irrelevant. I agree that the significance of the number can be diminished depending on the game. Take your example, for instance, 2 to 2000. Lets say that at the end of one game the level cap is 2 and it takes the same amount of time, same quests, same gear at the end, etc. as the game that has a level cap of 2000. I'd say in most, if not all, instances, the experiences would vary quite a bit. The rate at which a character levels, in most cases, sets the pacing for a game. Most games aren't made where someone gets 2000 levels in a day, nor a game where it takes 6 months to get to level 2, because the pacing would be so ridiculous that it wouldn't hold the players' interest.
If you think about it, pretty much all MMORPGs are about the numbers. Even in skill-based games, there's some form of numerical progression.
Frankly, I don't see why people, whom are anti-level, are almost offended at the idea of levels, and seem as though the advocates of levels are inferior. Am I missing something? Was there some huge war over it that I missed, and the anti-level folks lost and now hold some grudge?
Also, most arguments that I see that promote a level-less system just spout anti-level propaganda without really explaining why they feel that way or what should be in place of levels. Look, I'm not saying that every game needs levels; I just find myself not really understanding where posters' views comes from because it's not explained clearly.
I'm not trying to attack anyone. I'm just fairly ignorant to this particular debate. I'm somewhat familiar with games like EVE and Darkfall. Are people generally refering to those when talking about no levels? Throw mw a bone, here.
Comments
To the people wh ohate level cap..
Yet another point where people want it gone but offer nothing sensible to replace it. Unless you absolutely mean that a player, stripped naked whose played and maxed out for 2 years should be no more powerful than a player who just signed up.
Levels also represent a barrier to rightfully restrict access to content. "The mobs in here will one shot this guy? He's got no reason to even try to tank it. Save the embarrassment, save the hate, he can't come in because he's too low."
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
There's plenty of ways to get rid of the level cap... such as, you get rid of it! Completely!
You just make levelling much slower the higher you get, and you make the stat increases mean less and less. You let everyone progress forever.
What does everyone think about having a fairly high level cap that takes some time and effort, but yeilding really good rewards for reaching it? Things like: free months, reduced experience needed on your next play through or unlockable races that play much differently than the initial ones offered.
I suppose it's relative to how long it takes to level. In WoW 1-85 feels very fast, while in Aion 1 to 55 seems like an eternity, in my experience.
Didn't mean level cap, sorry. Meant "levels".
But more on this, levels also present an obvious indicator to not-incredibly-dumb players whether they have a remote chance of taking an enemy down or not.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
As many others have said, I also like 100.
But then... I am also in favor of stats based Leveling (you work it... it goes up).
Nothing fancy...
Just DEATH
For me the hope /chance to keep improving my character in an rpg and mmorpg is essential.
There are few ways to ensure that the a continual infinite improvement of your character keep going without having a cap.
1.Random generated dungeons with random generated loot and random generted lvl on the items dropoed via a pool +- 10 lvl below and above characters lvls.
2.Item drops that can raise the rank of special skills ..if for example you have a rank 5 raptor strike and u get lucky to find this item drop that can raise your raptor strike to rank 6.. (aka sacred)
3.Special runes,fragment whatever u want to name them drops that permanently can raise an attribuute of yours..
Ther are many things that developers could implement in an mmorpg to keep the character advancement system alive like forever if they wish to. And in my opinion thats the key to an mmorpg to be ethistic and keep players itrest in high lvls.
Some ofc can claim that such things could lead to unbalance etc etc.
To those i will point out as example wow. Blizzard made it to the point to completely cutter players choise on even their own talent trees. They are completely restricted concerning choises ,players cant even experiment with combining talent trees to discover new combos of trees. And all this for what? for balance. And what blizzard achieve? NOTHING.WOW forums are full of complains about imbalanced classes, they keep nerfing and changing classes every 2 months and every 2 months all they do is keep 2-3 classes overpowered. All they do is boose some classes every once in a while so they keep players as less dissapointed as they could.
So dont give me the balance crap excuse. Balance and unbalance will always be there . In my opinion all that matters in an rpg mmo or not is the fun of a deep and full of potential of creating multiple paths of progression for your character.
This is what D2 is. Very addictive game play too.
Like others have said here removing the levels/skill ups altogether and replacing it with more meaningful carrots would break the players away form the mind set that levels are the end all of game play.
I don’t think random dungeons are absolute must but number two and three could be a major driving force.
Right now I am not sure anyone really has the answer to doing this because player expectations are so varied. A game with no levels has to be designed and built from the ground up.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
"Levels" are definately THE worst "game-mechanic" that exist today.
Freedom FTW!
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
they are also one of the main reasons games have balancing issues.. levels is ok for PVE games, but for PVP, its a nightmare. which is why i think that level based games use lazy game mechanics
I might ask you to elaborate.
Why do you feel levels cause balancing issues?
Why are they a nightmare for PvP?
When you talk about systems with no levels, are you referring to games like EVE or Darkfall, or do you have something else in mind?
I'm good with 100 being the max cap
220
The actual level cap is irrelevant. Whats important is how much is gained each level, how fast progressing from one level is to the next, how much fun it is ataining that next level and how big of a gap it creates between you and others.
Whether the cap is 2 or 2000 is really irrelevant, the factors above are far more important than some arbitrary number.
In any case levels really aren't my thing. Games need to get rid of them all together. I'd rather my advancement with my char be a noticible difference in performance rather than have some number telling me I'm getting better and when I'm due to get better again.
If at level 1 I'm struggling to take out a goblin with a fireball and then later I'm able to dispatch them 5 at a time with that same fireball I really don't need a level 5 in the corner of my screen showing me I'm making progress. If I have more skills or spells than I had before I again don't need some level in the corner of my screen showing me that I've progressed.
But I can accept that I am in the minority and others really do want and need to see those little numbers.
I disagree that the number of levels is irrelevant. I agree that the significance of the number can be diminished depending on the game. Take your example, for instance, 2 to 2000. Lets say that at the end of one game the level cap is 2 and it takes the same amount of time, same quests, same gear at the end, etc. as the game that has a level cap of 2000. I'd say in most, if not all, instances, the experiences would vary quite a bit. The rate at which a character levels, in most cases, sets the pacing for a game. Most games aren't made where someone gets 2000 levels in a day, nor a game where it takes 6 months to get to level 2, because the pacing would be so ridiculous that it wouldn't hold the players' interest.
If you think about it, pretty much all MMORPGs are about the numbers. Even in skill-based games, there's some form of numerical progression.
Frankly, I don't see why people, whom are anti-level, are almost offended at the idea of levels, and seem as though the advocates of levels are inferior. Am I missing something? Was there some huge war over it that I missed, and the anti-level folks lost and now hold some grudge?
Also, most arguments that I see that promote a level-less system just spout anti-level propaganda without really explaining why they feel that way or what should be in place of levels. Look, I'm not saying that every game needs levels; I just find myself not really understanding where posters' views comes from because it's not explained clearly.
I'm not trying to attack anyone. I'm just fairly ignorant to this particular debate. I'm somewhat familiar with games like EVE and Darkfall. Are people generally refering to those when talking about no levels? Throw mw a bone, here.
i always liked runescape's original level cap of 126 and the insane grind that went along with it once you hit 110 ish
I would say 100, the game I am playing is aournd 75, it's a good game, but the level is too low I think, it's called Pearl Heroes