The hostile posts that the mods deleted that purported to be from "Syndicate members" were merely trolls attempting to stir up controversy and make the members of The Syndicate look bad. The kind of people we recruit do not engage in hostile posts, name calling and trolling. There are also guild rules prohibiting that kind of conduct that results in loss of membership if its broken.
The suggestions on topics for this series were collected and passed to Dragons. Thank you for posting those.
This is one of the things I am curious about. How do you manage members in a guild that is reported to be large and spans numerous games? Is it a case of one rule infringement and you're out? If so then is that community or simple organisation? Does community mean members are less liable to transgress? I doubt that somehow.
It will be interesting to read how Dragons believes community works.
Saying that, I pretty much agree with what was said, it made sense, but it also failed to underline the core problem of MMORPGs... in that they ARE about community, but that this same community is in general 90% full of assholes and so the concept this genre is built on is simply broken on the wider scale. The people make these games, but most of the people in the modern hobby pretty much suck atttitude wise (as dictated by fashionable modern mainstream internet culture that says 'be a dick, it's cool and no one can hurt you'). So, little self proclaimed oasis of fantastic community aside, these games fail because the wider user base fails, and thats about it.
IMO, no amount of game design now can reverse the modern internet culture back to real 'community'. I used to think it could, but now I just think it's too late.
I generally never post on this site due to the greater then normal amount of trolling but this column has finally brought out the troll in me, firstly because it is a well known fact that the syndicate are shameless self promoters to the point of arrogance. Secondly they would have you believe that they are the one and only long lived legacy clan when contrary to the columns statement there are in fact others just as long lived or almost so, my guild is 14 years old, stable, and large am i not qualified as well? Thirdly i would cite that anyone who has gamed or spent any significant time in a community would easily have this trivial knowledge including myself
truth be told i see this as just another soap box self gratuitous ego trip which will what? Educate me on the fundimentals of the social dynamics of guilds and gaming communities and the impact they have on gaming? Be real, we all know these things and before a justification comes barrelling at me citing the idea that this column and it's author is going to bridge the gap between game design and community relations by defining social and psychological under pinings associated with online gaming communities and to enlighten and educate not only those playing but the design companies as well is a farce and blatant aggrandizment on the part of the author to believe people to be this obtuse and obfuscate the true agenda here.
I get the impression that the author is treating the very same communities he is hoping to enlighten as children, and we require his unmatched knowledge in guild affairs to understand games? Frankly it's a slap in the face to assume that both players and game companies are unaware of the symbiosis of the two and from my experience game companies invest a great deal trying to understand us and have their own pathways to accomplish this hardly requiring this column or author to do so.
Besides any really educated gamer and guild builder or community manager knows that game design is built upon a foundation of money mechanics and draws inspiration through industry trends and standards, which means our communities dont impact the final product they impact the success of that product just as everyone already knows.
However what isn't known is game companies really don't see the communities the way we think they do thus the disconnect. Unfortunately this article alone won't do it and i personally do not require the author to speak on my behalf, i get my own say in my own way and don't recall hiring the author to be the the mouth piece of my gaming experience.
If MMORPG believes his conjured credentials then they obviously need his services more then we do to understand their own community, most gamers don't like being talked down to by one of their own, especially someone no better or different than themselves.
I generally never post on this site due to the greater then normal amount of trolling but this column has finally brought out the troll in me, firstly because it is a well known fact that the syndicate are shameless self promoters to the point of arrogance. Secondly they would have you believe that they are the one and only long lived legacy clan when contrary to the columns statement there are in fact others just as long lived or almost so, my guild is 14 years old, stable, and large am i not qualified as well? Thirdly i would cite that anyone who has gamed or spent any significant time in a community would easily have this trivial knowledge including myself
truth be told i see this as just another soap box self gratuitous ego trip which will what? Educate me on the fundimentals of the social dynamics of guilds and gaming communities and the impact they have on gaming? Be real, we all know these things and before a justification comes barrelling at me citing the idea that this column and it's author is going to bridge the gap between game design and community relations by defining social and psychological under pinings associated with online gaming communities and to enlighten and educate not only those playing but the design companies as well is a farce and blatant aggrandizment on the part of the author to believe people to be this obtuse and obfuscate the true agenda here.
I get the impression that the author is treating the very same communities he is hoping to enlighten as children, and we require his unmatched knowledge in guild affairs to understand games? Frankly it's a slap in the face to assume that both players and game companies are unaware of the symbiosis of the two and from my experience game companies invest a great deal trying to understand us and have their own pathways to accomplish this hardly requiring this column or author to do so.
Besides any really educated gamer and guild builder or community manager knows that game design is built upon a foundation of money mechanics and draws inspiration through industry trends and standards, which means our communities don’t impact the final product they impact the success of that product just as everyone already knows.
However what isn't known is game companies really don't see the communities the way we think they do thus the disconnect. Unfortunately this article alone won't do it and i personally do not require the author to speak on my behalf, i get my own say in my own way and don't recall hiring the author to be the the mouth piece of my gaming experience.
If MMORPG believes his conjured credentials then they obviously need his services more then we do to understand their own community, most gamers don't like being talked down to by one of their own, especially someone no better or different than themselves.
Good post with some great points, Drakiis. It could do with a few full stops though, but it doesn't take away any of what you say.
The hostile posts that the mods deleted that purported to be from "Syndicate members" were merely trolls attempting to stir up controversy and make the members of The Syndicate look bad. The kind of people we recruit do not engage in hostile posts, name calling and trolling. There are also guild rules prohibiting that kind of conduct that results in loss of membership if its broken.
The suggestions on topics for this series were collected and passed to Dragons. Thank you for posting those.
I do have a question. I read where you say those guys did not belong to your guild. So I am left to wonder how do you police your guild. A lot of those posts were from folks who just started accounts just so they could go turn into bad apples.
Also I see the thing I see that your collecting the data and passing it along to dragons? Why is he not collecting his own data from his column. That one really seams odd to me.
I generally never post on this site due to the greater then normal amount of trolling but this column has finally brought out the troll in me, firstly because it is a well known fact that the syndicate are shameless self promoters to the point of arrogance. Secondly they would have you believe that they are the one and only long lived legacy clan when contrary to the columns statement there are in fact others just as long lived or almost so, my guild is 14 years old, stable, and large am i not qualified as well? Thirdly i would cite that anyone who has gamed or spent any significant time in a community would easily have this trivial knowledge including myself
truth be told i see this as just another soap box self gratuitous ego trip which will what? Educate me on the fundimentals of the social dynamics of guilds and gaming communities and the impact they have on gaming? Be real, we all know these things and before a justification comes barrelling at me citing the idea that this column and it's author is going to bridge the gap between game design and community relations by defining social and psychological under pinings associated with online gaming communities and to enlighten and educate not only those playing but the design companies as well is a farce and blatant aggrandizment on the part of the author to believe people to be this obtuse and obfuscate the true agenda here.
I get the impression that the author is treating the very same communities he is hoping to enlighten as children, and we require his unmatched knowledge in guild affairs to understand games? Frankly it's a slap in the face to assume that both players and game companies are unaware of the symbiosis of the two and from my experience game companies invest a great deal trying to understand us and have their own pathways to accomplish this hardly requiring this column or author to do so.
Besides any really educated gamer and guild builder or community manager knows that game design is built upon a foundation of money mechanics and draws inspiration through industry trends and standards, which means our communities don’t impact the final product they impact the success of that product just as everyone already knows.
However what isn't known is game companies really don't see the communities the way we think they do thus the disconnect. Unfortunately this article alone won't do it and i personally do not require the author to speak on my behalf, i get my own say in my own way and don't recall hiring the author to be the the mouth piece of my gaming experience.
If MMORPG believes his conjured credentials then they obviously need his services more then we do to understand their own community, most gamers don't like being talked down to by one of their own, especially someone no better or different than themselves.
QFT
Crude and to the point, fuc$ing love it!
Sudenly the 'ONE' guild castle loses the cards which builded its fundations...
The biggest issue I see here is that EVERYTIME The Syndicate pop up on mmorpg.com the forums become a flame fest. Most of the community does not respect The Syndicate. In life there are choices and this is just one.
So it comes to utter question as to why the leader of said guild is the one who is supposed to bring us together and talk to us and for us? Dragon I have nothing against you I'm sure you are a legit person to know and a great leader; but look at these forums it has been nothing but people attacking you and your clan for the last 4 coumns that have been posted about it. So how do you think you are going to be able to honestly work for us if you cannot even get us to accept your role and what you are doing?
However you were given this role it just will not work. This is not a personal attack so do not take it that way please. Essentially what happened is the community was told that YOU are the man for this job yet we had ZERO say in it.
To be honest if it were between you and four other people, you would most likely not had it.
So please tell me this.
How do you plan to lead this forum/column?
Can you do a column that doesn't go over Syndicates life history and achievements and not gloat about them?
Can you not talk down to the community but instead talk to us like one of your "Dragons"?
How are you going to come up with the questions and discussion to bring here?
This is the stuff people want to see and hear. Not that you are 15 years old with thirty million members and a 54% retention rate in the year 2031.
Gaming community: IRONFIST New World: Lilith - US East WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Burning Legion> Alliance(We transferred to Illidan) WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Illidan> Horde SWOTR: IRONFIST <Satele Shan> Empire/Republic
The biggest issue I see here is that EVERYTIME The Syndicate pop up on mmorpg.com the forums become a flame fest. Most of the community does not respect The Syndicate. In life there are choices and this is just one.
So it comes to utter question as to why the leader of said guild is the one who is supposed to bring us together and talk to us and for us? Dragon I have nothing against you I'm sure you are a legit person to know and a great leader; but look at these forums it has been nothing but people attacking you and your clan for the last 4 coumns that have been posted about it. So how do you think you are going to be able to honestly work for us if you cannot even get us to accept your role and what you are doing?
However you were given this role it just will not work. This is not a personal attack so do not take it that way please. Essentially what happened is the community was told that YOU are the man for this job yet we had ZERO say in it.
To be honest if it were between you and four other people, you would most likely not had it.
So please tell me this.
How do you plan to lead this forum/column?
Can you do a column that doesn't go over Syndicates life history and achievements and not gloat about them?
Can you not talk down to the community but instead talk to us like one of your "Dragons"?
How are you going to come up with the questions and discussion to bring here?
This is the stuff people want to see and hear. Not that you are 15 years old with thirty million members and a 54% retention rate in the year 2031.
Wow nicely put. I would like to add one to the list
Dragons what are your plans to make those of us at mmorpg be more acceptable of you and your organization. Also how do you plan to combat those who were so overzealous in defending your organization, and bring those two groups of diametrically opposed factions together.
Let me add to my earlier statements. I have been playing any and all games religiously for over twenty years, especially but not limited to sandbox pvp, and i have only encountered the syndicate once ever in a game as a full guild, which was WoW. So your guild may grant you community insight, but as a whole i don't see the gaming experience required here, you as a individual may possess some varied knowledge and you may have done enough conventions to know a few people in the industry but if you and your guild merely claim to game and are just collecting game titles or actually are heavily immersed in gaming to date has currently yet to be seen. The games you or your guild claims to play are dated, thus so is your knowledge or understanding of current gaming social trends. Players today are more sophisticated and player communities more numerous then you seem to imply. My last game not counting beta was star trek online what was yours? I frequent the IGDA (international game developers association forums) where do you get your information from? I'm still actively gaming and dissecting game mechanics, are you? I keep up on the latest news concerning all games but specifically future projects, do you? Tell me something i don't already know and you might impress me enough to warrant such praise here.
Well, I am willing to see what you have to say about Guilds in games. Personally, I've only joined two in my [so far] 20 years of playing MUDs/MMOs - one whose name I forget on AC [I quit playing after 5 yrs there] and the second is the one I created for myself & my nephew on DDO so that we can use Guild augments. I generally don't like guilds as I am a casual player, though I've heard good things about the Old Timer's Guild in a few games [DDO, LOTRO, Ryzom to name the 3 that I have seen them in].
Perhaps Mr Wood would consider allowing different guilds to write for MMORPG.com on a rotating basis? Each could give their views on their community vs the total community in a variety of games...
I have some interest to hear what you have to say however lets hope your first real column offers a little more. Hint starting off with I am president and ceo not good......first lesson is know your audience if you did you would have known that is not something you should have used in your introduction here. Guild leader of the Syndicate would have sufficed as most people have at least heard of your guild.
Signed,
President, CEO and Chairman!!!! Hah!, keeper of knowledge, Lord of the Realm,
WOW!!! This new column sure brought out a lot of postings. OK then here is one.
First this is not an opinion about anything but a question and observation about gaming communities. Have you ever considered about a community that abides in silent existance? We don't communicate. We don't join in on chat. We don't play with others, join guilds, except rarely. In fact all we do is download a game, create a character or two and then play solo - usually we immerse ourselves in a character and devote our play time (lots or casual) to improving our character. Most of this community rarely bother to post much on a forum. A subset of this community is the hardcore PvP player who rushes madly through the levels to get to end game.
Just wondering if your Syndicate has ever considered these people at all. We contribute to the game - most basic to the purchase cost and playing fees. We rarely involve ourselves with the wild arguments about what game we hate or like. We don't get involved with forum arguments between players that stretch out a thread to uselessness.
LOL! Most obvious would be then, who cares? Just thought I would drop a line in to remind you that we are out there and wonder if we are of interest to anyone at all. Are there a lot of us? Like to see what you think, also other posters.
After reading this, I got curious...what is this syndicate about. Would it be something I would like to be part off? I know, that this was not the point of the above column (or was it??), but it did make me search a bit around.
Starting at page 15...and that is what the Syndicate is about. This is how you make (and I quote Sean from the front of his book) "Online Gaming's Premier Guild" ((as in THE Premier Guild?)).
I don't know, man...but it is not the kind of community I would want to be part of, and neither a community I hope will influence how future communities will be. As Sean admit himself, the Syndicate is run as a dictatorship...honestly, I would rather be in a guild that last only a year, as long as it is fun and I have a say, instead of joining a guild, that last 15 years, but controlled by only one man.
Without having studied communites/guilds since 1999 like the Syndicate have, I think we can conclude articles from this guildmaster, is going to hurt more than be a gain for anyone and this site.
I want to hear about how to make FUN and ENJOYABLE communites and guilds, not about how to make a LONG-LASTING guild. I just have a different view on what a successfull guild is (and Syndicate is not in the group).
So they have 5 individual accounts and the 3 90's are one person. Are the not playing. How do you purpose this is a premiere guild. So whats going on with this guild. Only 5 players?
Now lets talk about your guilds in lotro. I found the following in m lotro.com useing the search tool under guilds.
When you click on the Brandywine one you get the following, the user has deleted this content, that means the kin leader disbanded the guild On Brandywine. Firefoot has 13 toons, 2 accounts only no level 65's They apear to have all quit playing way before moria. Gladden 11 toons 2 accounts no level 65's one level 50. Same no activitly listed for 2 years. Landroval 12 toons 4 accounts 3 of the toons made it to level 60 and quit. Now we come to Dwarrowdelf the new server added since free to play with 43 toons, these guys actually seam to be playing but only free to play with 2 toons at level 43.
So I have to ask what happened with your guilds in EQ2, and In lotro. The one in eq2 only has one level maxed toon. The only active one in LOTRO appears to be all free to play. How do these qualify as premier guilds? I would love to hear that in one of your upcoming columns.
However I have to say they only recruit for ultima online and for Wow now.
Perhaps Mr Wood would consider allowing different guilds to write for MMORPG.com on a rotating basis? Each could give their views on their community vs the total community in a variety of games...
MMORPG.com staff has repeatedly said they have never NOT allowed guilds to submit their own articles or blogs.
Personally, I'd really like to see articles by both leads and veteran members of OTG, KGB, Shadowclan (Hoowah!) and other established multi-game guilds. Are UDL stilla roundor did they all go into game development?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
"MMORPG.com is pleased to feature a brand new column that will focus on gaming communities. No one is more eminently qualified to talk about these two critical features than the President and CEO of The Syndicate Sean Stalzer. Read Sean's introductory column as he offers up his qualifications and some thoughts about the future of his column."
I havent even made it to the article and already two bones to pick. First off, what TWO critical FEATURES are you talking about? A community isnt a "feature" and even if it was that's only one example.
Secondly, are you seriously trying to say no one in the entire world of gaming is more "eminently" qualified than this person in the realm of game communities? Seriously? No one? Is anyone remotely close? Maybe you could give us your top ten and list what ranking system you used to tally that score.
So, hyperbole not really in your vocab then?
I prefer honesty and integrity.
As opposed to? I've heard of his group off and on over the years. I have nothing against them personally. But I'd be fascinated to learn how they keep their guild "drama free". Groups of people naturally tend towards politics and power plays. I've seen way too many guilds/corps/clans self destruct because of it.
Personally I think another viewpoint is always welcome. It is a forum for discussions. Not a big fan of guilds that are in it for the money though. I think the thought that this guild influences developers of any sort is more a figment of the author's imagination. I much prefer smaller guild myself as the big ones tend to be very impersonal.
Just have to wait and see what his columns produce.
I would like to see a poll and results on who wants to read this type of column. Just to see if I'm in the minority or majority as I could really care less about it or this "Syndicate" who I've never heard of until now.
Well, I'll be glad to read it, because I feel that communities in MMORPG's have suffered in recent years, largely due to game design but also due to the influx of a broader player base with newer titles.
But what would really be interesting is to hear from the folks who run the Goon Squad/Swarm group on Something Awlful.com, heck they figure out a way to get thousands of people to pay them up to 50 bucks a month to be a member. Those are some smart fellas and they do so by creating communities that to the outside world are arguably juvenile and rotten.
Always people on planet who let themslefs sceam like this in pay to belong hahaha.
Never heared of syndicate myslef its reads like some sort of religion sekt where you all agree and no solo or drama aloud?
All who claim there is no drama i dont trust:P
But maybe im seeing it wrong?
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
The biggest issue I see here is that EVERYTIME The Syndicate pop up on mmorpg.com the forums become a flame fest. Most of the community does not respect The Syndicate. In life there are choices and this is just one.
So it comes to utter question as to why the leader of said guild is the one who is supposed to bring us together and talk to us and for us? Dragon I have nothing against you I'm sure you are a legit person to know and a great leader; but look at these forums it has been nothing but people attacking you and your clan for the last 4 coumns that have been posted about it. So how do you think you are going to be able to honestly work for us if you cannot even get us to accept your role and what you are doing?
However you were given this role it just will not work. This is not a personal attack so do not take it that way please. Essentially what happened is the community was told that YOU are the man for this job yet we had ZERO say in it.
To be honest if it were between you and four other people, you would most likely not had it.
So please tell me this.
How do you plan to lead this forum/column?
Can you do a column that doesn't go over Syndicates life history and achievements and not gloat about them?
Can you not talk down to the community but instead talk to us like one of your "Dragons"?
How are you going to come up with the questions and discussion to bring here?
This is the stuff people want to see and hear. Not that you are 15 years old with thirty million members and a 54% retention rate in the year 2031.
If you read carefully his topic you should know and understand also with history of this forum in past 10 years and its community, why many kind of attacking his topic.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Well i can tell you what i would have done and not done had it been i with this column, many examples of which are prevalent in my responses here.
First don't mention your guild, and whatevere you do you never link the dammed site, that's just a recruiting effort in disguise. Secondly you change your persona, who i am posting as now is not who i would be for the column. Thirdly you keep your fellow syndicate guild mates out of the equation or at least to maintain a dignified hands off mentality, last remove the smug i know more then you do, and try and identify with your audience by giving them a bit of control over the conversation, ask a lot of questions and be open to what others may be thinking, their feelings, hopes, and the currently changing times. Identify with your audience first before you post to crush, this isn't the unmoderated forums, where all legacy guilds are equals, this is the mmorpg forums where you have a much larger mixing pot of ideologies. Lesson over, oh and one last thing legacy clans like mine all agree that deciphering the social landscape can lead to great gaming but there is no one single entity with the answers on how that will happen.
Sorry, but why? Why do you MMORPG crew THINK we want to read stuff from this guild? I THINK we, as a MMORPG community, made it pretty clear the last few weeks that we don't want any more articles from The Syndicate.
I wonder this myself
I really don't think it's entirely for "us" at all.
To echo what was stated earlier, and something I stated myself in a previous discussion about TS.. I'm all for a column that highlights different guilds, talks to different guild leaders, discusses different notable goings-on with them in different games, etc.
However, a column written by the leader of a single guild which will, presumably, largely focus on that single guild, explaining "Why We're So Awesome And Others Aren't"? No thanks. I'm interested in objective information about a given topic, not ego-stroking presented under the guise of a "news column".
I'm quite confident there are many large, successful guilds who have been around for a decade or longer in the MMO community. I've known of a few of them myself. The difference would be, of course, they're not publically self-congratulatory about it.
{mod edit}
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Sorry, but why? Why do you MMORPG crew THINK we want to read stuff from this guild? I THINK we, as a MMORPG community, made it pretty clear the last few weeks that we don't want any more articles from The Syndicate.
I wonder this myself
I really don't think it's entirely for "us" at all.
To echo what was stated earlier, and something I stated myself in a previous discussion about TS.. I'm all for a column that highlights different guilds, talks to different guild leaders, discusses different notable goings-on with them in different games, etc.
However, a column written by the leader of a single guild which will, presumably, largely focus on that single guild, explaining "Why We're So Awesome And Others Aren't"? No thanks. I'm interested in objective information about a given topic, not ego-stroking presented under the guise of a "news column".
I'm quite confident there are many large, successful guilds who have been around for a decade or longer in the MMO community. I've known of a few of them myself. The difference would be, of course, they're not publically self-congratulatory about it.
Then again, if it's true... some members of the mmorpg.com staff are TS members. So... could be a bit of self-service going on there as well. I'd call it conflict of interest.
Well there are a few things they could do to fix this.
(1) The icon that says the syndicate by the article, replace this with the guys picture likeness like the other writers.
(2) No more self serving adds like this column was, the first thing was this is who we are. No more self promoting of the guild and no more posting there guild website and trying to drive their google page score up.
(3) Have dragons himself step in here instead of his underlings, he wrote this stuff he should be reading and responding. Instead of that we gathered information (washed it) and sent it upstream.
I am for a new column, and it should not be advertisement for a guild. This column reminded me of a publicity stunt to garner attention, and drive folks to their web page and drive their google score up,and that is not acceptable.
Hopefully the new column to come will not be that, and we will actually get info about comunity and so forth.
Sorry, but why? Why do you MMORPG crew THINK we want to read stuff from this guild? I THINK we, as a MMORPG community, made it pretty clear the last few weeks that we don't want any more articles from The Syndicate.
I wonder this myself
You are not alone in the wondering. Who the hell asked for this? Why is this site ignoring what has become pretty obvious in the past few weeks? The majority of people here do not seen to give a sh*t about your guild.
I welcome any new column to the site and I do not envy ANY author who dares to post their writing here...so, welcome and good luck!
However...making your 1st post all about touting how great and impressive your guild is, does come off as quite arogant - I don't really care to read anything about your "guild". My suggestion...let OTHERS talk you up. When you do it, it looks contrived.
My suggestion...In the future, I'd much prefer to read about individual opinions and ideas, not collective thoughts. I want to know what YOU think, not your guild. I want YOUR opinion, not your guilds. Your "qualifications" mean nothing to me...just your opinions. Playing x number of games doesn't make you any better qualified than someone who is playing their first - EVERY player counts and every opinion matters.
Comments
This is one of the things I am curious about. How do you manage members in a guild that is reported to be large and spans numerous games? Is it a case of one rule infringement and you're out? If so then is that community or simple organisation? Does community mean members are less liable to transgress? I doubt that somehow.
It will be interesting to read how Dragons believes community works.
.
{mod edit}
Saying that, I pretty much agree with what was said, it made sense, but it also failed to underline the core problem of MMORPGs... in that they ARE about community, but that this same community is in general 90% full of assholes and so the concept this genre is built on is simply broken on the wider scale. The people make these games, but most of the people in the modern hobby pretty much suck atttitude wise (as dictated by fashionable modern mainstream internet culture that says 'be a dick, it's cool and no one can hurt you'). So, little self proclaimed oasis of fantastic community aside, these games fail because the wider user base fails, and thats about it.
IMO, no amount of game design now can reverse the modern internet culture back to real 'community'. I used to think it could, but now I just think it's too late.
truth be told i see this as just another soap box self gratuitous ego trip which will what? Educate me on the fundimentals of the social dynamics of guilds and gaming communities and the impact they have on gaming? Be real, we all know these things and before a justification comes barrelling at me citing the idea that this column and it's author is going to bridge the gap between game design and community relations by defining social and psychological under pinings associated with online gaming communities and to enlighten and educate not only those playing but the design companies as well is a farce and blatant aggrandizment on the part of the author to believe people to be this obtuse and obfuscate the true agenda here.
I get the impression that the author is treating the very same communities he is hoping to enlighten as children, and we require his unmatched knowledge in guild affairs to understand games? Frankly it's a slap in the face to assume that both players and game companies are unaware of the symbiosis of the two and from my experience game companies invest a great deal trying to understand us and have their own pathways to accomplish this hardly requiring this column or author to do so.
Besides any really educated gamer and guild builder or community manager knows that game design is built upon a foundation of money mechanics and draws inspiration through industry trends and standards, which means our communities dont impact the final product they impact the success of that product just as everyone already knows.
However what isn't known is game companies really don't see the communities the way we think they do thus the disconnect. Unfortunately this article alone won't do it and i personally do not require the author to speak on my behalf, i get my own say in my own way and don't recall hiring the author to be the the mouth piece of my gaming experience.
If MMORPG believes his conjured credentials then they obviously need his services more then we do to understand their own community, most gamers don't like being talked down to by one of their own, especially someone no better or different than themselves.
Good post with some great points, Drakiis. It could do with a few full stops though, but it doesn't take away any of what you say.
.
I do have a question. I read where you say those guys did not belong to your guild. So I am left to wonder how do you police your guild. A lot of those posts were from folks who just started accounts just so they could go turn into bad apples.
Also I see the thing I see that your collecting the data and passing it along to dragons? Why is he not collecting his own data from his column. That one really seams odd to me.
QFT
Crude and to the point, fuc$ing love it!
Sudenly the 'ONE' guild castle loses the cards which builded its fundations...
/shakes head
Wow Drakiis I couln't word that better myself and it pretty much line with eveything I believe in.
Gaming community: IRONFIST
New World: Lilith - US East
WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Burning Legion> Alliance(We transferred to Illidan)
WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Illidan> Horde
SWOTR: IRONFIST <Satele Shan> Empire/Republic
So call it jealous call it what you will.
The biggest issue I see here is that EVERYTIME The Syndicate pop up on mmorpg.com the forums become a flame fest. Most of the community does not respect The Syndicate. In life there are choices and this is just one.
So it comes to utter question as to why the leader of said guild is the one who is supposed to bring us together and talk to us and for us? Dragon I have nothing against you I'm sure you are a legit person to know and a great leader; but look at these forums it has been nothing but people attacking you and your clan for the last 4 coumns that have been posted about it. So how do you think you are going to be able to honestly work for us if you cannot even get us to accept your role and what you are doing?
However you were given this role it just will not work. This is not a personal attack so do not take it that way please. Essentially what happened is the community was told that YOU are the man for this job yet we had ZERO say in it.
To be honest if it were between you and four other people, you would most likely not had it.
So please tell me this.
How do you plan to lead this forum/column?
Can you do a column that doesn't go over Syndicates life history and achievements and not gloat about them?
Can you not talk down to the community but instead talk to us like one of your "Dragons"?
How are you going to come up with the questions and discussion to bring here?
This is the stuff people want to see and hear. Not that you are 15 years old with thirty million members and a 54% retention rate in the year 2031.
Gaming community: IRONFIST
New World: Lilith - US East
WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Burning Legion> Alliance(We transferred to Illidan)
WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Illidan> Horde
SWOTR: IRONFIST <Satele Shan> Empire/Republic
Wow nicely put. I would like to add one to the list
Dragons what are your plans to make those of us at mmorpg be more acceptable of you and your organization. Also how do you plan to combat those who were so overzealous in defending your organization, and bring those two groups of diametrically opposed factions together.
Well, I am willing to see what you have to say about Guilds in games. Personally, I've only joined two in my [so far] 20 years of playing MUDs/MMOs - one whose name I forget on AC [I quit playing after 5 yrs there] and the second is the one I created for myself & my nephew on DDO so that we can use Guild augments. I generally don't like guilds as I am a casual player, though I've heard good things about the Old Timer's Guild in a few games [DDO, LOTRO, Ryzom to name the 3 that I have seen them in].
Perhaps Mr Wood would consider allowing different guilds to write for MMORPG.com on a rotating basis? Each could give their views on their community vs the total community in a variety of games...
<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg></a></p>;
I have some interest to hear what you have to say however lets hope your first real column offers a little more. Hint starting off with I am president and ceo not good......first lesson is know your audience if you did you would have known that is not something you should have used in your introduction here. Guild leader of the Syndicate would have sufficed as most people have at least heard of your guild.
Signed,
President, CEO and Chairman!!!! Hah!, keeper of knowledge, Lord of the Realm,
Archduke Votan ™
WOW!!! This new column sure brought out a lot of postings. OK then here is one.
First this is not an opinion about anything but a question and observation about gaming communities. Have you ever considered about a community that abides in silent existance? We don't communicate. We don't join in on chat. We don't play with others, join guilds, except rarely. In fact all we do is download a game, create a character or two and then play solo - usually we immerse ourselves in a character and devote our play time (lots or casual) to improving our character. Most of this community rarely bother to post much on a forum. A subset of this community is the hardcore PvP player who rushes madly through the levels to get to end game.
Just wondering if your Syndicate has ever considered these people at all. We contribute to the game - most basic to the purchase cost and playing fees. We rarely involve ourselves with the wild arguments about what game we hate or like. We don't get involved with forum arguments between players that stretch out a thread to uselessness.
LOL! Most obvious would be then, who cares? Just thought I would drop a line in to remind you that we are out there and wonder if we are of interest to anyone at all. Are there a lot of us? Like to see what you think, also other posters.
After reading this, I got curious...what is this syndicate about. Would it be something I would like to be part off? I know, that this was not the point of the above column (or was it??), but it did make me search a bit around.
I wanted to share what I found: http://pdf.textfiles.com/zines/ESCAPIST/theescapist_010.pdf
Starting at page 15...and that is what the Syndicate is about. This is how you make (and I quote Sean from the front of his book) "Online Gaming's Premier Guild" ((as in THE Premier Guild?)).
I don't know, man...but it is not the kind of community I would want to be part of, and neither a community I hope will influence how future communities will be. As Sean admit himself, the Syndicate is run as a dictatorship...honestly, I would rather be in a guild that last only a year, as long as it is fun and I have a say, instead of joining a guild, that last 15 years, but controlled by only one man.
Without having studied communites/guilds since 1999 like the Syndicate have, I think we can conclude articles from this guildmaster, is going to hurt more than be a gain for anyone and this site.
I want to hear about how to make FUN and ENJOYABLE communites and guilds, not about how to make a LONG-LASTING guild. I just have a different view on what a successfull guild is (and Syndicate is not in the group).
I have even more questions for Dragons.
Sir your web page boast you have guilds in EQ2.
http://everquest2.com/Guild/4671103/
Server:
Everfrost
Guild Status:
3,194,255
Guild Leaderboards
Guild Forums
Guild Bank
Website:
Guild Members:
40
Date Formed:
Apr 17, 2006
Unique Members:
5
Guild Level:
41
AverageMemberLevel:
37
So they have 5 individual accounts and the 3 90's are one person. Are the not playing. How do you purpose this is a premiere guild. So whats going on with this guild. Only 5 players?
Now lets talk about your guilds in lotro. I found the following in m lotro.com useing the search tool under guilds.
Name
World
The Syndicate
Brandywine
The Syndicate
Firefoot
The Syndicate
Gladden
The Syndicate
Landroval
The Syndicate
Dwarrowdelf
When you click on the Brandywine one you get the following, the user has deleted this content, that means the kin leader disbanded the guild On Brandywine. Firefoot has 13 toons, 2 accounts only no level 65's They apear to have all quit playing way before moria. Gladden 11 toons 2 accounts no level 65's one level 50. Same no activitly listed for 2 years. Landroval 12 toons 4 accounts 3 of the toons made it to level 60 and quit. Now we come to Dwarrowdelf the new server added since free to play with 43 toons, these guys actually seam to be playing but only free to play with 2 toons at level 43.
So I have to ask what happened with your guilds in EQ2, and In lotro. The one in eq2 only has one level maxed toon. The only active one in LOTRO appears to be all free to play. How do these qualify as premier guilds? I would love to hear that in one of your upcoming columns.
However I have to say they only recruit for ultima online and for Wow now.
MMORPG.com staff has repeatedly said they have never NOT allowed guilds to submit their own articles or blogs.
Personally, I'd really like to see articles by both leads and veteran members of OTG, KGB, Shadowclan (Hoowah!) and other established multi-game guilds. Are UDL stilla roundor did they all go into game development?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
As opposed to? I've heard of his group off and on over the years. I have nothing against them personally. But I'd be fascinated to learn how they keep their guild "drama free". Groups of people naturally tend towards politics and power plays. I've seen way too many guilds/corps/clans self destruct because of it.
Personally I think another viewpoint is always welcome. It is a forum for discussions. Not a big fan of guilds that are in it for the money though. I think the thought that this guild influences developers of any sort is more a figment of the author's imagination. I much prefer smaller guild myself as the big ones tend to be very impersonal.
Just have to wait and see what his columns produce.
Always people on planet who let themslefs sceam like this in pay to belong hahaha.
Never heared of syndicate myslef its reads like some sort of religion sekt where you all agree and no solo or drama aloud?
All who claim there is no drama i dont trust:P
But maybe im seeing it wrong?
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
If you read carefully his topic you should know and understand also with history of this forum in past 10 years and its community, why many kind of attacking his topic.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
First don't mention your guild, and whatevere you do you never link the dammed site, that's just a recruiting effort in disguise. Secondly you change your persona, who i am posting as now is not who i would be for the column. Thirdly you keep your fellow syndicate guild mates out of the equation or at least to maintain a dignified hands off mentality, last remove the smug i know more then you do, and try and identify with your audience by giving them a bit of control over the conversation, ask a lot of questions and be open to what others may be thinking, their feelings, hopes, and the currently changing times. Identify with your audience first before you post to crush, this isn't the unmoderated forums, where all legacy guilds are equals, this is the mmorpg forums where you have a much larger mixing pot of ideologies. Lesson over, oh and one last thing legacy clans like mine all agree that deciphering the social landscape can lead to great gaming but there is no one single entity with the answers on how that will happen.
I really don't think it's entirely for "us" at all.
To echo what was stated earlier, and something I stated myself in a previous discussion about TS.. I'm all for a column that highlights different guilds, talks to different guild leaders, discusses different notable goings-on with them in different games, etc.
However, a column written by the leader of a single guild which will, presumably, largely focus on that single guild, explaining "Why We're So Awesome And Others Aren't"? No thanks. I'm interested in objective information about a given topic, not ego-stroking presented under the guise of a "news column".
I'm quite confident there are many large, successful guilds who have been around for a decade or longer in the MMO community. I've known of a few of them myself. The difference would be, of course, they're not publically self-congratulatory about it.
{mod edit}
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Well there are a few things they could do to fix this.
(1) The icon that says the syndicate by the article, replace this with the guys picture likeness like the other writers.
(2) No more self serving adds like this column was, the first thing was this is who we are. No more self promoting of the guild and no more posting there guild website and trying to drive their google page score up.
(3) Have dragons himself step in here instead of his underlings, he wrote this stuff he should be reading and responding. Instead of that we gathered information (washed it) and sent it upstream.
I am for a new column, and it should not be advertisement for a guild. This column reminded me of a publicity stunt to garner attention, and drive folks to their web page and drive their google score up,and that is not acceptable.
Hopefully the new column to come will not be that, and we will actually get info about comunity and so forth.
You are not alone in the wondering. Who the hell asked for this? Why is this site ignoring what has become pretty obvious in the past few weeks? The majority of people here do not seen to give a sh*t about your guild.
I welcome any new column to the site and I do not envy ANY author who dares to post their writing here...so, welcome and good luck!
However...making your 1st post all about touting how great and impressive your guild is, does come off as quite arogant - I don't really care to read anything about your "guild". My suggestion...let OTHERS talk you up. When you do it, it looks contrived.
My suggestion...In the future, I'd much prefer to read about individual opinions and ideas, not collective thoughts. I want to know what YOU think, not your guild. I want YOUR opinion, not your guilds. Your "qualifications" mean nothing to me...just your opinions. Playing x number of games doesn't make you any better qualified than someone who is playing their first - EVERY player counts and every opinion matters.
Again, good luck!