Oh....and in my opinion....some "crap" is very polished, but that doesn't make it any less crap.
Well, yeah, but as some saying goes, what one person sees as 'crap' is another person's wife he adores and values for the good he sees in her beyond the superficial stuff what others see as crap.
I agree with that too. I did say it was my OPINION, after all. Although in the matter of RIFT, the stuff I think is crap is not superficial stuff, it's content....or lack thereof....and game mechanics like low level invasions not having enough players to fight them off....stuff like that....things that were also terminal cancers for Warhammer. It's fine for you to love your game. You have an opinion. But I'm also entitled to mine, and just because it differs from YOUR great opinion, doesn't make it about superficial things.
Tera might put a dent in Rift subs. It's a different kind of game and I would imagine a large majority of people that want to play that game aren't playing Rift, but who knows.
GW2 is a non-factor. The game isn't a sub game. People will buy GW2 and probably remain subbed to one game. Rift has a shot of keeping subs on that front, IF content remains fresh.
SWTOR is the biggest threat to Rift. It will be a themepark. It will be subscription based. It will have a traditional themepark MMO style. The only difference is that it's sci-fi based and has a strong IP (although it is wearing thin over the years.)
Fact is that Rift will lose subs. How many is unknown. Trion's best hope is to continue with World Events that actually change and advance the storyline. If the game remains fresh, they got a shot for lasting appeal. If not, they will be in trouble.
What I want to know is where are the 2 million subs(let alone 4 million!) people predicted for this game before it launched. Many of us predicted that within 6 months of launch this game would have maybe 50k-75k subscribers and we were called haters. We're not haters...we just call it like we see it.
I'm still going to say that Rift shards status + XFire + Steam + Raptr = a good way to determine trendlines for Rift
Originally posted by Teala
What I want to know is where are the 2 million subs(let alone 4 million!) people predicted for this game before it launched. Many of us predicted that within 6 months of launch this game would have maybe 50k-75k subscribers and we were called haters. We're not haters...we just call it like we see it.
There were also people who said that Rift would fail at launch already, not reaching anything more than 200k subs with maybe 20-30k servers at most. I'd say that both extremes are proven wrong, as the majority of sensible people would expect it to be.
As for the number of 50-75k subs, another extreme, I'd say we'll see over half a year. There are enough AAA MMO's that managed to hold on to 150-300k subs during that time, so I'd say that history would state that Rift has a good chance to do at least as well.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
What I want to know is where are the 2 million subs(let alone 4 million!) people predicted for this game before it launched. Many of us predicted that within 6 months of launch this game would have maybe 50k-75k subscribers and we were called haters. We're not haters...we just call it like we see it.
I don't know of a single person that thought Rift would get 2 million or 4 million subs.
I don't even know of a single person that thought Rift would get 1 million.
Most guesses were around 300k and I thought it was reasonable guess myself.
Rift will hold more than 75k after 6 months. That I have no doubt about.
Someone who wants to desperately (help to) see a game fail is citing xfire numbers to start a doom and gloom thread and ignores all hundreds of arguments and evidental proof about xfire not even remotely accurately representing the MMORPG gamerbase and how playeractivity trends are linked to game/patchreleases and time since their releases in the countless previous threads about xfire and ignorantly claiming the opposite until everything has been repeated one another time, just to flee to another new thread when the ignorance becomes obvious.
NEVER SEEN ON MMORPG.COM BEFORE!
I totally wonder why OP used "played hours" instead of the more obvious "daily players" which represent actual population far less inaccurate instead of making assumptions about population based on how long some people are online each day, as a measurement for Rifts "drop". Lets see... 5k user on releaseweek to 4,3 k user after the free month ..not even half of the proclaimed 30% drop.... doesnt sound bad at all... oh wait now I get it.
Some of you do your best to discredit xfire for showing how a game is performing. We've watched plenty of games come and go and xfire has been an excellent means of monitoring how well a game is doing. Deny it all you want, but the numbers do not lie.
We're not in Azeroth anymore! LMAO. They should have never called out WOW in their ad campaign and they should marketed it differently. Actually they should have made the main gameplay designed around Rifts and invasions no quests. Make the endgame bigger and much harder insane sized rifts with huge invasion. Throw in some RVR type areas where each side uses the rifts against the other to take over landmarks, the game would have been amazing. Instead we have Azeroth 2.0 with human looking characters built on a crappy gamebryo engine, sorry but it's not a good game, its decent but not good or very good.
"1) Our retention rate is higher than 70% based on current data. DAoC was indeed 72% in North America. WAR's number is higher and remains higher than DAoC since billing began. I'm quite happy with WAR's numbers as they are exactly what I expected they would be. "
He quoted WAR saying it had higher retention rate than 70% the first month and where is it now?
Rift has basically no appealing reason to stay longer than a couple of months. You will cap within a month and the Rifts get boring fast and the raids are the same old that we have seen before. There is nothing to tell me this game would be any different than WAR or AoC, retention wise.
And once GW 2, SW:TOR and Tera are released? No way this game will hold more than 100k subs.
1) Warhammers problems didn't really manifest until much later in the game so people stuck around a little longer than most flops. The early parts of the game were pretty good to be honest. It just got worse the higher in level and tiered zone you got. However there were mass cries for servers mergers in the second month.
2) It seems that you are stating your opinion of Rift as if it is the only possible outcome for the game. Perhaps I'm wrong, but that is the impression I am getting. The formula you just described has been working wonders for wow, lotro and a few other games for many years, so not sure why it couldn't work for Rift.
Don't get me wrong, I suspect our feelings on Rift are very similar. It was just to much of the same for me to really get excited about logging in for, but that doesn't mean everyone else is going to feel that way. As stated above, it has been working for the most successful fantasy mmos for years now and Rift is probably the single best mmo release since 2004.
Someone who wants to desperately (help to) see a game fail is citing xfire numbers to start a doom and gloom thread and ignores all hundreds of arguments and evidental proof about xfire not even remotely accurately representing the MMORPG gamerbase and how playeractivity trends are linked to game/patchreleases and time since their releases in the countless previous threads about xfire and ignorantly claiming the opposite until everything has been repeated one another time, just to flee to another new thread when the ignorance becomes obvious.
NEVER SEEN ON MMORPG.COM BEFORE!
I totally wonder why OP used "played hours" instead of the more obvious "daily players" which represent actual population far less inaccurate instead of making assumptions about population based on how long some people are online each day, as a measurement for Rifts "drop". Lets see... 5k user on releaseweek to 4,3 k user after the free month ..not even half of the proclaimed 30% drop.... doesnt sound bad at all... oh wait now I get it.
Some of you do your best to discredit xfire for showing how a game is performing. We've watched plenty of games come and go and xfire has been an excellent means of monitoring how well a game is doing. Deny it all you want, but the numbers do not lie.
Since I am playing the game and there are plenty of people around when I need them I couldn't care less what xfire shows. That is the point that people who try their best to CREDIT xfire numbers choose to not understand.
Don't like something? Turn a blind eye to it.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
If 1/100 people use xfire and xfire has a 25% drop in players... there is a high chance (not guarantee) that the whole game lost 25% of its player base. Although not the perfect way to measure, if you don't have any verifiable numbers to prove that this time xfire is wrong, your thoughts and opinions don't matter.
We're not in Azeroth anymore! LMAO. They should have never called out WOW in their ad campaign and they should marketed it differently. Actually they should have made the main gameplay designed around Rifts and invasions no quests. Make the endgame bigger and much harder insane sized rifts with huge invasion. Throw in some RVR type areas where each side uses the rifts against the other to take over landmarks, the game would have been amazing. Instead we have Azeroth 2.0 with human looking characters built on a crappy gamebryo engine, sorry but it's not a good game, its decent but not good or very good.
Do you know anything about the Endgame?
Harder Rifts? Raid Rifts...it's in there.
Huge Invasions? World Event...It's in there.
RvR? Ancient Wardstones...it's in there. And Port Scion is to be released shortly, which will be a PvP Open World RvR zone. Port Scion the Warfront is the only thing available atm.
The game could have and should have a lot more, but they do have some of the offerings you're suggesting. Maybe not to the extent yet, we'll have to see if they can deliver.
Someone who wants to desperately (help to) see a game fail is citing xfire numbers to start a doom and gloom thread and ignores all hundreds of arguments and evidental proof about xfire not even remotely accurately representing the MMORPG gamerbase and how playeractivity trends are linked to game/patchreleases and time since their releases in the countless previous threads about xfire and ignorantly claiming the opposite until everything has been repeated one another time, just to flee to another new thread when the ignorance becomes obvious.
NEVER SEEN ON MMORPG.COM BEFORE!
I totally wonder why OP used "played hours" instead of the more obvious "daily players" which represent actual population far less inaccurate instead of making assumptions about population based on how long some people are online each day, as a measurement for Rifts "drop". Lets see... 5k user on releaseweek to 4,3 k user after the free month ..not even half of the proclaimed 30% drop.... doesnt sound bad at all... oh wait now I get it.
Some of you do your best to discredit xfire for showing how a game is performing. We've watched plenty of games come and go and xfire has been an excellent means of monitoring how well a game is doing. Deny it all you want, but the numbers do not lie.
someone once posted an xfire stat about borderlands that said 175k were playing it........2 weeks before it was released. The numbers,just like the cake, is a lie.
XFire is not good to extrapolate absolute numbers from but rather trends. If the trend of XFire players shows a decline for a game then it has, in the past, generally been representetive of the game as a whole.
Same for the few games that have held steady or gone up, like Eve, LOTRO and WoW.
It will be interesting to hear your guys excuses when they start merging servers, 3-4 months from now and XFire shows a +50% decline in numbers.
I've never understood the fuss over xFire data. YES, not everyone uses it. But we're not looking at hard specific numbers. We're looking for a general trend. IF something of a sizable userbase shows a trend, the trend ESTIMATE can be applied elsewhere.
For example, polls for politics typically run about +-3 points and YET they only poll roughly 1000 people out of the 320mil in this country.
What I want to know is where are the 2 million subs(let alone 4 million!) people predicted for this game before it launched. Many of us predicted that within 6 months of launch this game would have maybe 50k-75k subscribers and we were called haters. We're not haters...we just call it like we see it.
I don't know of a single person that thought Rift would get 2 million or 4 million subs.
I don't even know of a single person that thought Rift would get 1 million.
Most guesses were around 300k and I thought it was reasonable guess myself.
Just go back and look through the old Rift post prior to release. There were many people making these predictions.
What I want to know is where are the 2 million subs(let alone 4 million!) people predicted for this game before it launched. Many of us predicted that within 6 months of launch this game would have maybe 50k-75k subscribers and we were called haters. We're not haters...we just call it like we see it.
I don't know of a single person that thought Rift would get 2 million or 4 million subs.
I don't even know of a single person that thought Rift would get 1 million.
Most guesses were around 300k and I thought it was reasonable guess myself.
Just go back and look through the old Rift post prior to releae. There were many people making these predictions.
Yep, and the original therm WoW killer was thrown around as well... people never learn I guess.
Uh huh enjoy your gear grind. Raid Rifts are retarded, give me some excitement, did a dungoen and fell asleep same crap, screw dungeons give me towering behemoths to fight alongside 100 people online. Give me a huge RVR area port scion is a joke and a ripoff from AV (nice try though but AV is better designed for fights). Also animations are odd and spell effects are odd as well. Game is just too generic for my tastes. Couldn't get past Level 30 and fell asleep the way there, too boring nothing exciting. But hey like I said enjoy the numerous nerfs, and numerous mistakes since this is Scott H from EQ2 and Adam G from Warhammer online Age of retardedness. Once I seen they have some WAR Devs I had a bad feeling about the game. I am waiting for something that blows me away and makes me go "Holy Shit that's awesome". FRom what I played all I said was okay that was decent but umm where's the excitement?
XFire is limited in the sense that it only shows trends regarding Xfire users. There's no 100% surefire way to determine whether that group of XFire users is representative for the whole Rift population.
Then again, that could be said for any kind of sampling, using a relatively small percentage of a larger group to determine traits of that larger group, and yet samples are being used with elections, market research and scientific research. So, samples do have their merit.
As for Rift, personally I think that when you keep track of various different means that show player activity, then it helps get a better view of player activity, especially if all those means don't contradict eachother.
I'd estimate the Rift player drop to be between 10-15 %, where I believe DCUO had a player drop of 60-70%.
Rift is doing alright so far, even if Rift/themepark haters so much might want it to be otherwise.
Whether Rift'll continue to do alright, we'll see.
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Teala
Just go back and look through the old Rift post prior to releae. There were many people making these predictions.
Yep, and the original therm WoW killer was thrown around as well... people never learn I guess.
A bit unfair. There were also hordes of sandbox lovers and Rift haters who predicted doom for Rift as well, that it'd fail and burn horribly at its launch, not even reaching more than 100-200k subs, or that most players would drop after the free month. Just like the WoW killer remarks, extreme statements were made by both sides. A bit trollish to try to point to the extreme fanatic statements as both fans and critics had those.
But you're right, some people never learn: people who desperately want a new game to be a 'WoW killer' and people who desperately need to see a new MMO fail and burn horribly if it's one they dislike.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
What I want to know is where are the 2 million subs(let alone 4 million!) people predicted for this game before it launched. Many of us predicted that within 6 months of launch this game would have maybe 50k-75k subscribers and we were called haters. We're not haters...we just call it like we see it.
I don't know of a single person that thought Rift would get 2 million or 4 million subs.
I don't even know of a single person that thought Rift would get 1 million.
Most guesses were around 300k and I thought it was reasonable guess myself.
Just go back and look through the old Rift post prior to releae. There were many people making these predictions.
No there wasn't. Find me one if you can:)
I remember very clearly about the predictions of doom and gloom people had about this game at launch. I'm kind of surprised you'd bring this topic up actually.
Lets just say xfire might have some truth. Then how does that makes sense considering that Amazon PC game Sales list Rift Game Download as #1 still. Considering that the list is updated HOURLY and Rift has been #1 for over 2 weeks now. I'd say that's a good sign.
We will have to give it a couple more months to see if the trend continues. I don't think any one could deny that a continued downward trend of 20% for more than a few months would be horrible. I don't think Rift is going to flop but I think we will see server merges. By no means was this game ever competition for that other game that they based their marketing around.
Comments
I agree with that too. I did say it was my OPINION, after all. Although in the matter of RIFT, the stuff I think is crap is not superficial stuff, it's content....or lack thereof....and game mechanics like low level invasions not having enough players to fight them off....stuff like that....things that were also terminal cancers for Warhammer. It's fine for you to love your game. You have an opinion. But I'm also entitled to mine, and just because it differs from YOUR great opinion, doesn't make it about superficial things.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Tera might put a dent in Rift subs. It's a different kind of game and I would imagine a large majority of people that want to play that game aren't playing Rift, but who knows.
GW2 is a non-factor. The game isn't a sub game. People will buy GW2 and probably remain subbed to one game. Rift has a shot of keeping subs on that front, IF content remains fresh.
SWTOR is the biggest threat to Rift. It will be a themepark. It will be subscription based. It will have a traditional themepark MMO style. The only difference is that it's sci-fi based and has a strong IP (although it is wearing thin over the years.)
Fact is that Rift will lose subs. How many is unknown. Trion's best hope is to continue with World Events that actually change and advance the storyline. If the game remains fresh, they got a shot for lasting appeal. If not, they will be in trouble.
What I want to know is where are the 2 million subs(let alone 4 million!) people predicted for this game before it launched. Many of us predicted that within 6 months of launch this game would have maybe 50k-75k subscribers and we were called haters. We're not haters...we just call it like we see it.
I'm still going to say that Rift shards status + XFire + Steam + Raptr = a good way to determine trendlines for Rift
There were also people who said that Rift would fail at launch already, not reaching anything more than 200k subs with maybe 20-30k servers at most. I'd say that both extremes are proven wrong, as the majority of sensible people would expect it to be.
As for the number of 50-75k subs, another extreme, I'd say we'll see over half a year. There are enough AAA MMO's that managed to hold on to 150-300k subs during that time, so I'd say that history would state that Rift has a good chance to do at least as well.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I don't know of a single person that thought Rift would get 2 million or 4 million subs.
I don't even know of a single person that thought Rift would get 1 million.
Most guesses were around 300k and I thought it was reasonable guess myself.
Rift will hold more than 75k after 6 months. That I have no doubt about.
Some of you do your best to discredit xfire for showing how a game is performing. We've watched plenty of games come and go and xfire has been an excellent means of monitoring how well a game is doing. Deny it all you want, but the numbers do not lie.
We're not in Azeroth anymore! LMAO. They should have never called out WOW in their ad campaign and they should marketed it differently. Actually they should have made the main gameplay designed around Rifts and invasions no quests. Make the endgame bigger and much harder insane sized rifts with huge invasion. Throw in some RVR type areas where each side uses the rifts against the other to take over landmarks, the game would have been amazing. Instead we have Azeroth 2.0 with human looking characters built on a crappy gamebryo engine, sorry but it's not a good game, its decent but not good or very good.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
1) Warhammers problems didn't really manifest until much later in the game so people stuck around a little longer than most flops. The early parts of the game were pretty good to be honest. It just got worse the higher in level and tiered zone you got. However there were mass cries for servers mergers in the second month.
2) It seems that you are stating your opinion of Rift as if it is the only possible outcome for the game. Perhaps I'm wrong, but that is the impression I am getting. The formula you just described has been working wonders for wow, lotro and a few other games for many years, so not sure why it couldn't work for Rift.
Don't get me wrong, I suspect our feelings on Rift are very similar. It was just to much of the same for me to really get excited about logging in for, but that doesn't mean everyone else is going to feel that way. As stated above, it has been working for the most successful fantasy mmos for years now and Rift is probably the single best mmo release since 2004.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Since I am playing the game and there are plenty of people around when I need them I couldn't care less what xfire shows. That is the point that people who try their best to CREDIT xfire numbers choose to not understand.
Don't like something? Turn a blind eye to it.
_______
|___
\_______/
=
|X| \*........*/ |X|
|X|_________|X|
You wouldn't understand
If 1/100 people use xfire and xfire has a 25% drop in players... there is a high chance (not guarantee) that the whole game lost 25% of its player base. Although not the perfect way to measure, if you don't have any verifiable numbers to prove that this time xfire is wrong, your thoughts and opinions don't matter.
Have a nice day.
{mod edit}
Do you know anything about the Endgame?
Harder Rifts? Raid Rifts...it's in there.
Huge Invasions? World Event...It's in there.
RvR? Ancient Wardstones...it's in there. And Port Scion is to be released shortly, which will be a PvP Open World RvR zone. Port Scion the Warfront is the only thing available atm.
The game could have and should have a lot more, but they do have some of the offerings you're suggesting. Maybe not to the extent yet, we'll have to see if they can deliver.
***cross server world event finder***
Generation P
XFire is not good to extrapolate absolute numbers from but rather trends. If the trend of XFire players shows a decline for a game then it has, in the past, generally been representetive of the game as a whole.
Same for the few games that have held steady or gone up, like Eve, LOTRO and WoW.
It will be interesting to hear your guys excuses when they start merging servers, 3-4 months from now and XFire shows a +50% decline in numbers.
Lets bookmark this thread and come back then.
My gaming blog
I've never understood the fuss over xFire data. YES, not everyone uses it. But we're not looking at hard specific numbers. We're looking for a general trend. IF something of a sizable userbase shows a trend, the trend ESTIMATE can be applied elsewhere.
For example, polls for politics typically run about +-3 points and YET they only poll roughly 1000 people out of the 320mil in this country.
Just go back and look through the old Rift post prior to release. There were many people making these predictions.
Yep, and the original therm WoW killer was thrown around as well... people never learn I guess.
My gaming blog
Uh huh enjoy your gear grind. Raid Rifts are retarded, give me some excitement, did a dungoen and fell asleep same crap, screw dungeons give me towering behemoths to fight alongside 100 people online. Give me a huge RVR area port scion is a joke and a ripoff from AV (nice try though but AV is better designed for fights). Also animations are odd and spell effects are odd as well. Game is just too generic for my tastes. Couldn't get past Level 30 and fell asleep the way there, too boring nothing exciting. But hey like I said enjoy the numerous nerfs, and numerous mistakes since this is Scott H from EQ2 and Adam G from Warhammer online Age of retardedness. Once I seen they have some WAR Devs I had a bad feeling about the game. I am waiting for something that blows me away and makes me go "Holy Shit that's awesome". FRom what I played all I said was okay that was decent but umm where's the excitement?
XFire is limited in the sense that it only shows trends regarding Xfire users. There's no 100% surefire way to determine whether that group of XFire users is representative for the whole Rift population.
Then again, that could be said for any kind of sampling, using a relatively small percentage of a larger group to determine traits of that larger group, and yet samples are being used with elections, market research and scientific research. So, samples do have their merit.
As for Rift, personally I think that when you keep track of various different means that show player activity, then it helps get a better view of player activity, especially if all those means don't contradict eachother.
I'd estimate the Rift player drop to be between 10-15 %, where I believe DCUO had a player drop of 60-70%.
Rift is doing alright so far, even if Rift/themepark haters so much might want it to be otherwise.
Whether Rift'll continue to do alright, we'll see.
A bit unfair. There were also hordes of sandbox lovers and Rift haters who predicted doom for Rift as well, that it'd fail and burn horribly at its launch, not even reaching more than 100-200k subs, or that most players would drop after the free month. Just like the WoW killer remarks, extreme statements were made by both sides. A bit trollish to try to point to the extreme fanatic statements as both fans and critics had those.
But you're right, some people never learn: people who desperately want a new game to be a 'WoW killer' and people who desperately need to see a new MMO fail and burn horribly if it's one they dislike.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
No there wasn't. Find me one if you can:)
I remember very clearly about the predictions of doom and gloom people had about this game at launch. I'm kind of surprised you'd bring this topic up actually.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Lets just say xfire might have some truth. Then how does that makes sense considering that Amazon PC game Sales list Rift Game Download as #1 still. Considering that the list is updated HOURLY and Rift has been #1 for over 2 weeks now. I'd say that's a good sign.
We will have to give it a couple more months to see if the trend continues. I don't think any one could deny that a continued downward trend of 20% for more than a few months would be horrible. I don't think Rift is going to flop but I think we will see server merges. By no means was this game ever competition for that other game that they based their marketing around.
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