Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
OK, I'll reserve judgement on whether GW2 will have the most impressive PvE experience, yet I will never believe that Open World PvP is the only PvP that matters. Maybe for sandbox games you can say that but for themepark MMOs, it's nothing but a cheap thrill or annoyance. Ganking someone because you are sure you have the advantage doesn't make someone a skilled PvP'er
I just replied to you about that on the previous page but I will list it again here for your convenience:
Why world pvp and multiple factions is awesome to me 101:
- World pvp means a more exciting world: you have to watch your back when going about your business.
- World pvp adds unpredictability and choices: is that guy going to gank me? Is he going to let me pass? Should I fight or run, call friends, come back later?
- World pvp means a more diverse world and longevity: even if you have completed all pve content an area offers, it might still be the stage for great, random battles for the rest of the time you play the game.
- World pvp allows for an endless amount of player organized content: from 1 vs. 1 tournaments or raiding your enemy's lands to skirmishes and pitched battles. With or without RP sauce.
- In worlds without world pvp the only thing you need to worry about is the agro range of mobs: that has bored me eventually in Lotro and it will probably bore me in GW2
- In servers with multiple factions and world pvp your enemy will have a face: you will get to cherrish wraths and befriend those enemies which earned your respect, you get to build a reputation for yourself and you get to know the reputations of some of your enemies. This makes for a much more lively community.
Well then until I can experience this magnificent Open World PvP that you speak of for myself, then it will remain as nothing more than a skillless gankfest. And that's if there's any PvP going on, otherwise it's just like you're playing on a PvE server. Don't worry I will eventually try either Rift (since the thing is already on my hard drive) and maybe SW:TOR and play exclusively on PvP servers yet I don't see how getting ganked is nothing more than getting caught with your trousers down, vice versa. Especially in a game like Rift where if I'm PvE'ing and someone is in the process of ganking me, I can't say "Could you give me a sec whilst I change to my PvP tree".
OK, I'll reserve judgement on whether GW2 will have the most impressive PvE experience, yet I will never believe that Open World PvP is the only PvP that matters. Maybe for sandbox games you can say that but for themepark MMOs, it's nothing but a cheap thrill or annoyance. Ganking someone because you are sure you have the advantage doesn't make someone a skilled PvP'er
Why does it have to be a cheap thrill?
I've seen world PvP where it starts with a simple gank but as people call for help it quickly transforms into a big fight. With large groups of players on either side duking it out against each other.
And sure, world PvP isn't always about skilled play. But does it have to be? There's quite a few people who enjoy the thrill of knowing that they could be ganked at any moment and that there may be nothing they can do against it.
The only thing that really matters in themepark PvP is whether or not you're having fun. If you enjoy the thrill of possibly getting ganked just about everywhere and having random fights pop up all over the zone then world PvP does matter. If you don't enjoy other forms of PvP nearly as much then, for you, world PvP is the only PvP that matters. If you don't like world PvP at all then, for you, world PvP doesn't matter at all.
What world PvP is all depends on the individual player. GW2's WvWvW and SWToR's world PvP each have their advantages and disadvantages. I'd say neither is a cheap thrill or annoyance. Remember, both are optional. You don't have to roll PvP servers and you don't have to participate in WvWvW.
The only bad thing is doing something you don't enjoy. And that's entirely your own fault.
And isn't that what Guild Wars 2 is trying to achieve with it's WvWvW, small isolated skirmishes developing into full-on epic battles. Except that because it's a purely PvP environment it will happen a lot more frequently, instead of only occasionally. Sure you can argue that those occasional moments where a large group of Sith, storming through your Jedi territory, resulting in an epic player-driven event will be best moments of SW:TOR in a PvP server. But then you've also got to consider whether the game is built for it and SW:TOR really does seem built around smaller group content that I wonder, if the game can handle 100+ players duking it out in an area.
That last bit was more specific to SW:TOR and the problems it may have, not Open World PvP.
OK, I'll reserve judgement on whether GW2 will have the most impressive PvE experience, yet I will never believe that Open World PvP is the only PvP that matters. Maybe for sandbox games you can say that but for themepark MMOs, it's nothing but a cheap thrill or annoyance. Ganking someone because you are sure you have the advantage doesn't make someone a skilled PvP'er
I just replied to you about that on the previous page but I will list it again here for your convenience:
Why world pvp and multiple factions is awesome to me 101:
- World pvp means a more exciting world: you have to watch your back when going about your business.
- World pvp adds unpredictability and choices: is that guy going to gank me? Is he going to let me pass? Should I fight or run, call friends, come back later?
- World pvp means a more diverse world and longevity: even if you have completed all pve content an area offers, it might still be the stage for great, random battles for the rest of the time you play the game.
- World pvp allows for an endless amount of player organized content: from 1 vs. 1 tournaments or raiding your enemy's lands to skirmishes and pitched battles. With or without RP sauce.
- In worlds without world pvp the only thing you need to worry about is the agro range of mobs: that has bored me eventually in Lotro and it will probably bore me in GW2
- In servers with multiple factions and world pvp your enemy will have a face: you will get to cherrish wraths and befriend those enemies which earned your respect, you get to build a reputation for yourself and you get to know the reputations of some of your enemies. This makes for a much more lively community.
Well then until I can experience this magnificent Open World PvP that you speak of for myself, then it will remain as nothing more than a skillless gankfest. And that's if there's any PvP going on, otherwise it's just like you're playing on a PvE server. Don't worry I will eventually try either Rift (since the thing is already on my hard drive) and maybe SW:TOR and play exclusively on PvP servers yet I don't see how getting ganked is nothing more than getting caught with your trousers down, vice versa. Especially in a game like Rift where if I'm PvE'ing and someone is in the process of ganking me, I can't say "Could you give me a sec whilst I change to my PvP tree".
Sad to hear about your bad impressions with world pvp so far. The most fun I had in mmorpgs has always been in world pvp; from WOW to EVE, yes, while being a ganker but also as someone who won't gank the same guy twice and leaving noobies in peace, and often getting ganked myself as well. While organizing a 100 man raid on Ogrimmar and killing Thrall, rerolling faction to play with former enemies who had become friends, and while shivering like hell when warping in to a sure encounter or gatecamp in EVE, etc, etc.
If you would have shared my experiences you might have understood why I would think twice to play any game not offering pvp in the open world: I tried and got bored before (Lotro). (And why I am so disappointed with Anet going for a "single faction-no pvp servers" formula). But anyway, you didn't really address the individual points I made, I hope that means they were pretty good ones in your eyes ;-)
SWTOR is NOT [traditional] trinity. Most of the classes have a heal/support or tanking subclass. Companions can also fill a support or tank role. When everyone can doa little of everything its no longer the trinity as you think.
Why are people stil deluding themselves about this? If you've got a tank that holds aggro, a healer that heals and everyone else just spamming their macros whilst eating a sandwich then you've got a traditional trinity. Doesn't matter if a rogue can tank, dps or heal (depending on what mood I'm in), if the actual combat system requires the use of these 3 dedicated roles roles (Tank,Healer,DPS), during group encounters, then it's a trinity game. Otherwise I can then say that Rift and WoW doesn't have trinity combat.
Still even if GW2 does not have the big content SWTOR has, i wil try it.
After SWTOR ofcourse.
Personally, I hope they BOTH turn out to be spectacular games. I tend to stick with one MMO, but I certainly don't see any reason to hope one of these 2 games is better than the other. We have plenty of room in this genre for two new great games.
And isn't that what Guild Wars 2 is trying to achieve with it's WvWvW, small isolated skirmishes developing into full-on epic battles. Except that because it's a purely PvP environment it will happen a lot more frequently, instead of only occasionally. Sure you can argue that those occasional moments where a large group of Sith, storming through your Jedi territory, resulting in an epic player-driven event will be best moments of SW:TOR in a PvP server. But then you've also got to consider whether the game is built for it and SW:TOR really does seem built around smaller group content that I wonder, if the game can handle 100+ players duking it out in an area.
That last bit was more specific to SW:TOR and the problems it may have, not Open World PvP.
Still, in WvWvW you're expecting it. You know it's going to happen there and absolutely nowhere else. Some players may like that. Others may like the surprises that world PvP brings.
I personally think it leads to a more immersive and exciting experience when I think I'm just going to do a small quest but I end up fighting in a huge PvP battle. Or even if I think I'm just going to easily kill these mobs here and suddenly find 3 enemy players killing me.
As for the 100 players. I don't know. Nobody knows. We'll have to wait and see. I don't have access to Bioware's networking code and even if I did I wouldn't actually know whether or not it was able to handle 100+ players. But I do think that this may be a part where the Mythic part of Bioware could come in handy. For all it's flaws WAR was able to handle pretty big sieges and such. I've played in sieges with over 150 players ( 2 full warbands of 40 vs 2 full warbands of 40 + stragglers ) without any lag at all. Combine this with the high quality servers Bioware will undoubtly be able to afford ( with the budget SWToR has I think it's a safe bet to say that they'll be getting top of the line servers. )
So if Bioware manages to write good networking code and purchases good server I'm feeling hopefull about 100+ players duking it out in a single area.
But SWToR also suffers from the fatal flaw of not being released yet, so until that happens we'll just have to hope for the best.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
GW2 and SWTOR are not comparible. One is an arena based end game in ten minutes game.
The other a triple AAA MMO, with vast open planets , content and storyline. Shame the OP does not realise this.
And just for the disquieted OP:
Adj.
1.
disquieted - afflicted with or marked by anxious uneasiness or trouble or grief; "too upset to say anything"; "spent many disquieted moments"; "distressed about her son's leaving home"; "lapsed into disturbed sleep"; "worried parents"; "a worried frown"; "one last worried check of the sleeping children"
troubled - characterized by or indicative of distress or affliction or danger or need; "troubled areas"; "fell into a troubled sleep"; "a troubled expression"; "troubled teenagers"
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
GW2 and SWTOR are not comparible. One is an arena based end game in ten minutes game.
The other a triple AAA MMO, with vast open planets , content and storyline. Shame the OP does not realise this.
It's a shame you still haven't realized that this isn't true.
I know right. I can't believe that people don't consider GW2 as MMO. I don't get it.
And I don't even get what this guy is talking about. Are you saying GW2 is not a AAA? or GW2 does not have vast open world, conent and storyline? It is a shame that I don't realize or you are is blindly wrong?
Comments
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
For me its a nobrainer.
Setting:
GW2 - Fantasy setting, done to death. No matter what, it'll have swords, bows, horses etc... I cant stand another game of fantasy tbh.
SWtor - Futuristic (or whatever you call it).
IP:
GW2 - Basically means nuffin to me, at all. I didnt play GW1.
SWtor - Its starwars.
Well then until I can experience this magnificent Open World PvP that you speak of for myself, then it will remain as nothing more than a skillless gankfest. And that's if there's any PvP going on, otherwise it's just like you're playing on a PvE server. Don't worry I will eventually try either Rift (since the thing is already on my hard drive) and maybe SW:TOR and play exclusively on PvP servers yet I don't see how getting ganked is nothing more than getting caught with your trousers down, vice versa. Especially in a game like Rift where if I'm PvE'ing and someone is in the process of ganking me, I can't say "Could you give me a sec whilst I change to my PvP tree".
And isn't that what Guild Wars 2 is trying to achieve with it's WvWvW, small isolated skirmishes developing into full-on epic battles. Except that because it's a purely PvP environment it will happen a lot more frequently, instead of only occasionally. Sure you can argue that those occasional moments where a large group of Sith, storming through your Jedi territory, resulting in an epic player-driven event will be best moments of SW:TOR in a PvP server. But then you've also got to consider whether the game is built for it and SW:TOR really does seem built around smaller group content that I wonder, if the game can handle 100+ players duking it out in an area.
That last bit was more specific to SW:TOR and the problems it may have, not Open World PvP.
O god GW2 clearly being owned here
Still even if GW2 does not have the big content SWTOR has, i wil try it.
After SWTOR ofcourse.
Really?
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
Sad to hear about your bad impressions with world pvp so far. The most fun I had in mmorpgs has always been in world pvp; from WOW to EVE, yes, while being a ganker but also as someone who won't gank the same guy twice and leaving noobies in peace, and often getting ganked myself as well. While organizing a 100 man raid on Ogrimmar and killing Thrall, rerolling faction to play with former enemies who had become friends, and while shivering like hell when warping in to a sure encounter or gatecamp in EVE, etc, etc.
If you would have shared my experiences you might have understood why I would think twice to play any game not offering pvp in the open world: I tried and got bored before (Lotro). (And why I am so disappointed with Anet going for a "single faction-no pvp servers" formula). But anyway, you didn't really address the individual points I made, I hope that means they were pretty good ones in your eyes ;-)
My brand new bloggity blog.
Why are people stil deluding themselves about this? If you've got a tank that holds aggro, a healer that heals and everyone else just spamming their macros whilst eating a sandwich then you've got a traditional trinity. Doesn't matter if a rogue can tank, dps or heal (depending on what mood I'm in), if the actual combat system requires the use of these 3 dedicated roles roles (Tank,Healer,DPS), during group encounters, then it's a trinity game. Otherwise I can then say that Rift and WoW doesn't have trinity combat.
Personally, I hope they BOTH turn out to be spectacular games. I tend to stick with one MMO, but I certainly don't see any reason to hope one of these 2 games is better than the other. We have plenty of room in this genre for two new great games.
Still, in WvWvW you're expecting it. You know it's going to happen there and absolutely nowhere else. Some players may like that. Others may like the surprises that world PvP brings.
I personally think it leads to a more immersive and exciting experience when I think I'm just going to do a small quest but I end up fighting in a huge PvP battle. Or even if I think I'm just going to easily kill these mobs here and suddenly find 3 enemy players killing me.
As for the 100 players. I don't know. Nobody knows. We'll have to wait and see. I don't have access to Bioware's networking code and even if I did I wouldn't actually know whether or not it was able to handle 100+ players. But I do think that this may be a part where the Mythic part of Bioware could come in handy. For all it's flaws WAR was able to handle pretty big sieges and such. I've played in sieges with over 150 players ( 2 full warbands of 40 vs 2 full warbands of 40 + stragglers ) without any lag at all. Combine this with the high quality servers Bioware will undoubtly be able to afford ( with the budget SWToR has I think it's a safe bet to say that they'll be getting top of the line servers. )
So if Bioware manages to write good networking code and purchases good server I'm feeling hopefull about 100+ players duking it out in a single area.
But SWToR also suffers from the fatal flaw of not being released yet, so until that happens we'll just have to hope for the best.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
Uhm the OP loves to compare apples with pears.
GW2 and SWTOR are not comparible. One is an arena based end game in ten minutes game.
The other a triple AAA MMO, with vast open planets , content and storyline. Shame the OP does not realise this.
And just for the disquieted OP:
Adj.
1.
upset, worried, disturbed, distressed
troubled - characterized by or indicative of distress or affliction or danger or need; "troubled areas"; "fell into a troubled sleep"; "a troubled expression"; "troubled teenagers"
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
It's a shame you still haven't realized that this isn't true.
Hype train -> Reality
I know right. I can't believe that people don't consider GW2 as MMO. I don't get it.
And I don't even get what this guy is talking about. Are you saying GW2 is not a AAA? or GW2 does not have vast open world, conent and storyline? It is a shame that I don't realize or you are is blindly wrong?
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
Also interesting to see that they don't think GW2 is a AAA mmo.
My theme song.
... Threads like this can't be called 'border incidents' anymore. The war has started.
It is time to pick a side or leave for the refugee camps.
*builds up arsenal*
p.s. Before anyone thinks (s)he's clever ... those are not sex toys. They are lethal weapons!
My brand new bloggity blog.
Just an error I'd like to point out. Mace Windu's Lightsaber was purple.
and Yoda's is green
My theme song.
Hey, you call'em what you wanna call'em. I call'em what I call'em Ah?!
Rofl
edit: @Xzen: Very keen perception. We will need men like you in this war.
My brand new bloggity blog.
The only thing GW2 has that SWTOR does not is bunnies. I mean look at this thing it's from Harry Potter.
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/races/asura/
In Bioware we trust!
I must agree with this post. Time to pick a side and stop comparing the two to one another especially when neither is out yet.
Retired: EVE, SWG, STO, EQ2, Ryzom, AO, LotRO, FFXI
Currently Awaiting: SWTOR, TSW, ArcheAge
I sense much rage in you Pony, a kind of Dark rage. You see, see what I did there.
In Bioware we trust!
I laught at your pitifull weapons! Allow me to introduce you to the real weapons of a master!
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
Light Saber chucks? Just wtf on the other 2. LOL
My theme song.
A quad lightsaber and some sort of lightsaber bangle.
Also:
Lightsaber-gun!
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
lol
where did you guys find these pictures?
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1