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Would you be interested in a gamers game?
Moirae
Member RarePosts: 3,318
So many MMO's have been so disappointing recently. They claim more than they actually deliver, and the hype machine is overworked in such a way that you can't believe anything you hear or see anymore.
There are so many problems with the current MMO's.
What if there was a game with good in depth crafting with dozens of different combinations for each item to create the most quality stuff, and the top level was the ability to change the world itself?
What if there was a game where the quests you were given were rarely if ever "kill me x of y" where you're given a small amount of coin or a magical weapon wayyyyy too powerful for what you deserve?
What if there was a game where those same quests had the ability to change the world?
What if there was a game where your choices mattered and you had the option to do more than just accept or refuse, and the choice you made had future consequences to you, those you play with, and the npc's?
What if there was meaningful PvP that actually mattered where the winners and losers changed the world around them? Gained them allies and enemies?
What if you could contribute your own items and buildings and architecture that you made at home on your computer for inclusion in the world?
What if you had mods, gm's and devs that not only posted a question and let you run with it or ignored you altogether but were active, alert, communicative to the point that you could have debates on different ideas with them, AND involved with what was going on?
What if the game was constantly being updated by you the player, and by active participating devs?
What if the bugs got dealt with asap instead of some of them sitting for years without being touched?
What if you had a choice? AND a voice?
Would you play such a game?
This would be a true gamers game created by gamers for gamers. And it would be a revolution in the industry the likes of which have never been seen before. It would also force the powerful game companies, if it was successful, to finally change their ways.
I know its a gamers dream, but would you?
And what would you be willing to pay for such a game?
Please keep in mind, I'm not asking for your opinion on the ideas viability. Just whether you'd play, and what you'd be willing to pay.
Sorry, I just realized I should have added maybe into it, but I can't seem to add the option. If the answer is maybe, could you please post your stipulations?
Thanks.
Comments
Yes, and.....
What the game would be worth to me is hard to say without having a specific game to referrence. I think as far as monthly fees go, the ones we have are fine, considering the financial state of things in the U.S. anyway. Honestly....GW2 buy to play system is preferable I think, but otherwise, I don't think payment should be adjusted.
We really should already be getting what you describe, with a few exceptions, perhaps, and I think those things would be affordable for a company with a decent sub base.
The question really is.....why are we not already getting games like this?
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I think the answer to that is "because the players are willing to settle for less".
Of course we would play that, and many of those points are allready being done in games.
But how would you make a game where all the quests are unique for everyone and everyone can affect the world and people can add things they make to the game and players can update the game without:
1. totally and completely screwing up the code
2. Needing thousands of devs to monitor how people use the code, and update accordingly
3. Needing thousands of writers to write unique quests
4. Without having the world change every few minutes because someone changed the world for the quest, and then someone else then someone else....
5. Change the world for the better in a way you like that doesn't screw up someone else's enjoyment.
It would be nice, personally considering enjoyment is subjective I don't think it is possible.
Venge
I think that would depend on how its done. If the games stay as they are now, thats exactly what would happen. But changing the methods can change the results.
If we're promising the world and not shackled by whether ideas are actually viable, then of course everyone's going to agree.
...it's once you start pruning ideas down and actually implementing them that ideas start to shed supporters.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
If someone made the perfect ice cream, I would eat. If someone made the perfect car, I would drive it. If someone created the perfect music, I would listen to it. If someone formed the perfect country, I would move to it.
One would have to be a masochist to not embrace something that is really 'perfect'. The only reason would be that it was not actually perfect but only 'real'.
1/2. Code is for developers, scripts for the users. You can't screw up code with a script, because the script may only execute what the code allows.
3. Generate quests by an algorithm. Not a problem at all (though I would prefer to get rid of quests at all). 99,9% of the players would not even know that they are following a generated quest.
4. Changing the world is what we want! The stuff in the world needs to change all the time, not only every few minutes! Maybe the height of the terrain needs to be fixed to be above sea level, but everything else should be possible ;-)
5. That's where you start to be in a living virtual world and you may join the community or play the asshole, just as you prefer.
Technically that is all feasible. I am a professional software developer, and I would even contribute time and work into a gamers dream. Just can't afford to pay the artists
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
He wants users to update that game, thats means writing code afaik
Using an algorithm for quests is not unique in any way shape or form, it is prewritten content put together in a different way, similar to CoH door quests. It would boil down to a few different quests, arranged in different patterns that people would very quickly recognize and complain about.
I would like to change the world, however I would not like it people started changing the things I had built. I have played games where people/things have destroyed what I built. It isn't fun.
The questions still remain.
Venge
The problem is that "gamers" as a whole will not agree on a single game. The best you can hope for it to satisfy a niche.
Have you had a chance to look at the open source code Ryzom has released?
We should talk...
Didn't know about that. Just found http://dev.ryzom.com/ - thanks for the tip! :-)
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
Would be the perfect test-bed for a community built MMO... kind of like the old quake-mod days. (Yes, I'm old.)
Would be a good opportunity for those wanting to break into the gaming industry, allowing them something substantial to show on a resume, whether they are coders, modellers, or graphic artists.
I voted no in the poll for two reasons.
1) Not all players want an epic sandbox game. I like having some things fed to me, I like a good story, and I like deep lore. The kind of game described in the OP doesn't allow for that, since a constantly changing world would make having a coherent story difficult, and without that players like me feel less sense of progress.
2) There would inevitably be conflicts between players for creative control over the world. How is it decided which player-generated content gets the most visible real estate? And there is only so much real estate available in a game world...space would run out almost immediately. Looking back to Spore, the devs released creative tools ahead of the game in the hopes that they could have 100,000 items of user-generated content at release. Turns out, there were 3,000,000 and that number only continued to skyrocket, because people sure do love being creative. Where will 3,000,000 custom-built homes/merchant shops/etc. shops fit into this sandbox world?
Also, how would generated quests comply with a rapidly changing world? Say I pick up a quest, but wait a day to complete it...how do I know that the world will still allow me to complete it the next day? Also, generated quests are, I think, very limited in how intersting they can be. If a quest isn't revealing some sort of information to the player about the game, then you're pretty much left with context-less skull smashing. That sounds quite boring to me.
OP is pretty much talking about Minecraft, which works because gameplay is so simplistic. There are few things going on that can mess with creative freedom, because the gameplay *is* creation, and nothing else. By stripping out the storyline, leveling, quests/tasks, gear, and all of the other gameplay systems that define the MMO genre, you're left with something that is pure creative energy. Once you add quests into the mix, in any capacity, then you have too much going on in the world to allow for complete creativity. You can't have players, quests, PvP and whatever else all affecting the world...they just overlap too much.
Good thread. Keep it alive. Too tired to reply. Will do tmorrow
My thoughts exactly. This genre use to cater to niche crowds. Not so much anymore. The new age gamer has taken over and thus the industry is in that direction.
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To the OP: If given the chance I am making a game somewhat similiar to what you have described, however, its more PVE than PVP, and more themeparked than sandbox.
The question is who's giong to make the game.
Maybe all the kill x quest is because it's easy to creat on the developers stand point.
Great ideas are nothing if you can't make it work. Which I think is the main problem.
Even with niches, it's expensive to make a game. Modern gamers love graphics and that tends to be where the majority of the money is spent. Behind that is mechanics and then you have the lore. There are a lot of niche games and one of my favorites, Ultima Online, delivered almost every aspect I could ever dream of from an MMORPG. The problem is that I grew out of the 2D graphic style and got bored of the game after playing for 9 years. Games like that though rarely surface now because of the current genre of gamers who emphasize pvp and combat over other aspects. It would take a whole lot of convincing to get a publishing company to invest in a different direction, especially one they don't know will work or not.
1. Assume you find a book in a library about a hero that killed the dragon Xyplplatl with his friends in an epic battle. Assume you get a quest from the book to meet this ancient hero and worship him (emote or something). And then send a tell to player who is controlling the hero...
Now, what is more entertaining, the generated quest of the book or the cookie cutter kill-12-rats quest?
2. Give one player a little area where he can build a house and place NPCs (e.g. like in Horizons). These NPCs could tell stories about the player who hired them, or offer player-made quests, or offer a service like selling potions. There is also no space problem, you can even generate terrain with an algorithm. Think about dark and light, 90% of the world of that game was just generated.
3. If you can't complete the quest on one day it may be gone, because someone of an enemy faction might have killed the quest giver. Where is the problem?
4. Adding items, skills, levels, pvp and quests to the vision of the op does not necessarily destroy the game. You just need to add a few lines of code more, and then need to tweak the parameters accordingly. As an example, assume there is pvp content: a siege on a castle that is hold by one faction A, sieged by faction B. Why should it not be possible for a group of PVE-palyers of faction B to conquer a NPC-village of faction A as revenge? And by conquer, I mean the village is changing to faction B after the victory - until it is conquered by someone else, like a wandering troup of NPCs of faction C.
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
I see so many of these posts, i dont really see the point tbh...
I would love "xyz" but this thread wont make it happen, juts make me more sad that
i don't have the game (& never likely to see the game) your talking about... whats the point?
The Deathstar destroyed planets...Lucas Arts destroyed Galaxies
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Played:
SWG | EVE | WOW | VG | LOTRO | WAR | FML | STO | APB | AOC | MORTAL | WOT | BP | SW:TOR
What's the point in posting in forums? Sharing thoughts and discuss them. I assume everybody here loves playing mmorpg's, and those who are currently not playing due to the lack of interest in current games, still like to talk to each other.
And maybe someone starts at one point an open source mmorpg, created by gamers for gamers. It will happen. And it will beat all those streamlined mass produced wow clones ;-)
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
I voted "no" because the question is insipid. What games do you know of that are being created by non-gamers who want to make bad games that nobody likes, with intentionally unfixed bugs and inactive uncommunicative developers? It is frankly insulting to imply that all MMOs are disappointing because the developers aren't trying.
It is their job not to try: Get as much customers as possible with the least amount of investment. This is the way capitalism works. It sucks, but that's our world we are supposed to live in.
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
I ask again: show me any game which was created by people who do not play games themselves, with the intention of having a bad game in the end. (Besides Zynga.)
"Get as much customers as possible with the least amount of investment" is synonymous with "make the highest quality game possible with the finite amount of man-hours you have available." Better game = more sales. Don't tell me you honestly believe that anyone out there deliberately includes bugs and diminishes quality in the interest of getting more money.
Duuh, you never heard about an mmorpg that was released too early? Do I really need to give you an example? Maybe you know vanguard? It was unfinished and the management at soe just pushed it out the door, buggy like hell, just to get a few bucks. In the game list there is a whole section with dead games that have been released way too early, just for financial reasons. None, nobody at the management cares about bugs or players - they care about return on investment. Wake up, my friend, this is a business for "the other side".
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
anyway you cut it..whats a gamers game? lol a good game..then ya i love to play good games a bad game..then no id rather not..even tho some things are left out dont make it a non-gamer game ..or what ever your speaking about lol