The only research i could find was mmorpg market data from 2010
I doubt anything for 2011 would be published yet.. since the year isn't over and it takes time to compile the data
but last year Activision blizzard had a 54% market share for mmo's which was down from 60% the previous year.. so who knows.. maybe they wont be the largest provider anymore
sony is not the biggest based on the market research I've seen.
And the research looks incredibly thorough and unbiased from a statistics monitoring company (they probably make money selling research to large investors so they can make investment decisions)...
sure if we are just talking mmo then yeah there is no arguing blizzard is the king at the moment but gaming wise and people who have gaming accounts(customers) with soe it isn't even close.
Ok fine, SOE is bigger then activision blizzard. I never had a playstation i dont know whats going on there. I'm still not reading that crazy guy's wall of text.
I think this is the biggest theft of personal information ever...
only other big theft i can think of was TJ Max having 50 million credit cards stolen a couple years ago
This was mostly personal information and not credit cards.. but it doesn't remove the risk of people having their identity stolen.. Just makes the thieves work a little harder to fill out credit card applications.
The entire online transaction system needs an overhaul.. or some form of regulatory standard.. people can't keep having their data stolen like this every couple years
Well all I can say is that I have been buying Sony products for many years and have never had service or product problems with this company. I do believe the number of Sony custumers who are happy with them outways the number who hate on them.
wow sounds like somebody is getting a SoE paycheck for being a spin doctor:D
Now I notice that a lot of people on this forum seem to be stuck on EQ1. Guys it isn't coming back get over it, it is a thing of the past. Things have always been like this in this industry. One thing goes out and a new thing comes in. The more technology that is found the firther they advance things and if they find something that meets a bigger crowd rather than a small one then that ios what they are going to go with because they are a big company and they obviously know what keeps them making monewy and keeps them surviving to continue to put new products out.
yes, and it gives a good indication of how SoE treats their customer. past experiance with a company is the ONLY way to judge how that company is going to behave.
I play EQ2 and have seen nothing wrong with SOE's game nor tehri service or the way I get treated. Shoot when something is wrong with a quest they fiox the problem right online while you are talking to them. Try getting that on WoW. Not happening.
right.... you are saying dev's actually answered your petition for a game bug and came online withing a hour and sat there and troubleshoot the game bug with you? sounds like PROOF that you WORK for SoE doesnt it?:D when was the last time any other people actually had their petition answered within a week? better yet, when was the last time anyone even saw a GM in SoE games much less a DEV on something as "trivial" as a game breaking bug?:D
Was not trying to get off topic but felt like I needed to say that due to these people who continually attack a company when if you look out of over 100,000,000 costumers has had a total of less than 200 complaints with the BBB in the last 3 years. So I would not call that a horrible company.
right... 100 MILLION customers got their info stolen and it's the CUSTOMER's fault for not reporting SoE to BBB? last time i checked 100 MILLION people is almost 1/6th of the population of the UNITED STATES.... sure lets us ALL report to BBB about this breach....
Blizzard is 1/10 that size and has had 2500 complaints....
So no matter how you look at it you guys picking Sony apart they will still have a strong enough amount of people backing this that are matrure and know that companies are made of humans which at times error and make mistakes but you have to look at teh overall and not just tear them apart on one product or one mistake
do you REALLY believe a 10 to 12 year old kid CARES about their personal info being stolen? are you saying that those who CARE about their personal info being stolen are IMMATURE? are you saying that just because we are humans that error of this calibur should be excused? we are talking about 100+ million accounts after all. how would you like to live next to a nuclear power plant and have the same people manage the security of that station?
No matter how you look at this Sony is just as much of a victim here as us. This isn't about vengeance is mine this has been a major offense to everyone involved and no matter how you look at it. the criminals are who you should be tearing apart in this they are the ones that caused this. Sure Sony may have not felt like they needed to Beef things up but did you think that maybe that was because they had faith in their consumers that this kind of thing might not happen?
yes those who manage the 3 mile island and chernobyl powerplants were victims too... just like those who were on the deepwater horizon oil platform or those who were on exxon valdez. they were victims too.... but... eventually you have to ask yourself, what is the meaning of the word RESPONSIBILITY?
No instead someone gets in trouble because he messed with a patented code on the PS3 and hacks into it which gave them total rights to sue that person and everyone turns on them like vultures for them breaking the law in the first place? I guess I just do not understand todays way of thinking. It is sad when a long upstanding company gets attacked and everyone blames them for what the other person who did this needs to be taking responsibility for.
yes lets examin the concept of "hacking into the PS3" have you ever taken ANYTHING you OWN apart? something you bought with YOUR hard earned money? have you ever BROKE anything and tried to fix it yourself? have you ever changed oil or breaks on your car? have you installed extra memory or harddrive in your computer? anything/everything you touch these days have a patent on it. if you actually look in that simplistic way, you MUST take your car to the car dealership to get something as simple as a windshield wiper replaced or have your windshield fluid topped off:D....
at some point the word OWNERSHIP really needs to be reexamined or you might need to call the builder of your house reguarding the legality of hanging a picture frame on your wall:D
I am responsible for everything I do no one else makes me do this I do this by choise so if I mess with a patented code this is my fault not anyone elses and if I am breaking the law I have to pay the consequences. Think before you act. Think of the consequences of what is going to come out of what you are doing. And if you think the cons outway the pros don't do it. Breaking into someone's patent or hacking into systems is just as bad as drug addiucts that peddle drugs to our kids.
You all sound like a bunch of bitter alcoholics who don't know how to take responsibility for their own actions.
and you sound like someone who works for SoE?
So my point is, is that no matter how you look at this Somy is a victim right along with the rest of us. This is no different from teh Twin Towers and I don't hear anyone blaming our own government for that anymore even though they were tipped off that there was a threat lol. Everyone is just Glad that Osama is dead.
sure, why dont you send me all your personal information and credit card information and let me store it in PLAIN TEXT on the internet. dont worry if your information gets stolen, i'm not at fault because i'm also the victim and MY text file is stolen:D
This is a really tough break for not only Sony but the entire industry because this was a very largescale attack and yes other large companies have to sit and wait and see if they might possibly be the next target of this persons diabolical plans whatever they are.
you REALLY need to get a better understanding what the meaning of a "tough break" is.... getting hit by a 9.1 earthquake is a tough break. falling off a bicycle and bust your head open because you never tightened the wheels when assembling the bike is NOT a tough break. it's incompetence or negligence.
As far as Sony recovering it is like someone else said before people tend to have short term memories as soon as Sony comes out with the next best product whether it be online or consoles everyone will buy it and they will forget about this.
maybe, but i know I wont be the one giving SoE MY credit card information ever again:D
As far as how Sony chose to let information out. I will not say it was right or wrong, however they did not do things in any other way thanthe government would have. Do you think the government would have let it out so it would panis the entire nation until they had exact facts? No they would not have and that is what Sony did was wait until they had all of the phorensic facts on what information was stolen so that they could inform people properly and not start a panic. No government agency would have done any less.
Lol i bet half the people whining here have there name email and date of birth on their facebook and twitter pages, and as for your cc info well there is a reason that credit card companies help with fraud protection if you are smart enough to do your part you will not loose a penny. .
Anyone who made a poor decision and gave up their checking account info to pay for anything over the internet well hopefully you will see the light and not do this anymore, if you cant get a prepaid game card just about anyone with a pulse can get a prepaid visa it's not like they sell them everywhere or anything like that.
Ahh crap I said I wasn't going to do it but I did it. I read the rest of the crazy guys post. There is parts in there about 9/11 and how people who play SOE games are alcoholics..... At first I was kind of upset at Sony for not letting me play some games, but now I understand. Sony is the victim. It's my fault, somehow I let this happen. Ahh well, I'm going to the grocery store to buy some cheap wine and pizza.
Lol i bet half the people whining here have there name email and date of birth on their facebook and twitter pages, and as for your cc info well there is a reason that credit card companies help with fraud protection if you are smart enough to do your part you will not loose a penny. .
Anyone who made a poor decision and gave up their checking account info to pay for anything over the internet well hopefully you will see the light and not do this anymore, if you cant get a prepaid game card just about anyone with a pulse can get a prepaid visa it's not like they sell them everywhere or anything like that.
I thought we were whining because we couldnt play games? If we cared so much about our names and birthdates we wouldnt be playing MMOs in the first place. I for one don't care about who or what's been hacked and what they are going to do about it. I just want to click my EQ Launcher and play a freaking game!!!!!
Wow, I didn't think I would really needed to post a link showing that the SOE servers were not down for an entire week prior to the 28th announcement that customer data was safe, but Here you go.
Where do you read that?! I do not see anything like that written there.
<<snip>>
Sorry wrong link!
EQ2 Twitter account LINK Servers back online April 21st, Content patch April 28th, various other updates during the week.
You can see several updates between April 21st and April 28th. SOE was only down for less than 1 day.
So in the previous reply when you said I was wrong, what was I wrong about?
Lol i bet half the people whining here have there name email and date of birth on their facebook and twitter pages, and as for your cc info well there is a reason that credit card companies help with fraud protection if you are smart enough to do your part you will not loose a penny. .
Anyone who made a poor decision and gave up their checking account info to pay for anything over the internet well hopefully you will see the light and not do this anymore, if you cant get a prepaid game card just about anyone with a pulse can get a prepaid visa it's not like they sell them everywhere or anything like that.
I thought we were whining because we couldnt play games? If we cared so much about our names and birthdates we wouldnt be playing MMOs in the first place. I for one don't care about who or what's been hacked and what they are going to do about it. I just want to click my EQ Launcher and play a freaking game!!!!!
Yeah im with ya here i just want to play my video game. I am not concerned with having my identity stolen because i didnt provide the information needed for that to happen. i mean it's somewhat of hassle to have to change some passwords but i think i will live it was nearing the normal time that i would change them anyway.
People keep saying that this could happen to anyone, but really how many companies operate like this? How many companies leave a server so wide open to attack like this?
It is hard to have sympathy for a company that didn't even do the most basic level of security efforts.
Seriously after all they done, this is the topping.
I'm really sorry for all the people working here but SOE in its actual state has to be dismantled. It's a shame for the MMO world, really.
Again, this is based on speculation by a security expert. He said the things he said based on the information he had available to him, however, that does not mean he is right. If you based a lawsuit on that kind of information, I bet it would be thrown out of court. You would have to be 100% sure you have your facts straight going in, otherwise you'll end up with egg on your face.
If you can read French, I recommend reading Le Monde and L'Express' websites. They have really good articles about this incident. The latter published an article about Sony's security, saying that SoE/Sony *most likely* cut corners with security because they may not have been PCI DSS certified (the protocol that credit card companies use) probably because it is very expensive. From the way the attacks happened, the experts think that they were not using certified PCI DSS. However, the authors of the article were quick to point out that even with it, it's very possible to get hacked, as has been the case of credit card companies using it. Even without it, it doesn't necessarily mean that Sony was completely sloppy, it means that Sony's security is 'artisanal' rather than being 'industry standard'.
Anyway, SoE itself might not be liable for being sued, but rather the parent corp Sony. If SoE started suffering worse financial problems, it will be swallowed up by Sony anyway. I don't think that the EQ franchise is going to be sold off to xyz.
I wouldn't be surprised if the outcome of this incident is that more MMO companies get targetted by organized criminals.
Thanks for the highlight.
I agree being PCI certified does not mean your environment is secure. I was really puzzled SOE would not even have such basic things as firewall. Seems some people elaborated facts that aren't real.
Well all I can say is that I have been buying Sony products for many years and have never had service or product problems with this company. I do believe the number of Sony custumers who are happy with them outways the number who hate on them.
wow sounds like somebody is getting a SoE paycheck for being a spin doctor:D
Now I notice that a lot of people on this forum seem to be stuck on EQ1. Guys it isn't coming back get over it, it is a thing of the past. Things have always been like this in this industry. One thing goes out and a new thing comes in. The more technology that is found the firther they advance things and if they find something that meets a bigger crowd rather than a small one then that ios what they are going to go with because they are a big company and they obviously know what keeps them making monewy and keeps them surviving to continue to put new products out.
yes, and it gives a good indication of how SoE treats their customer. past experiance with a company is the ONLY way to judge how that company is going to behave.
I play EQ2 and have seen nothing wrong with SOE's game nor tehri service or the way I get treated. Shoot when something is wrong with a quest they fiox the problem right online while you are talking to them. Try getting that on WoW. Not happening.
right.... you are saying dev's actually answered your petition for a game bug and came online withing a hour and sat there and troubleshoot the game bug with you? sounds like PROOF that you WORK for SoE doesnt it?:D when was the last time any other people actually had their petition answered within a week? better yet, when was the last time anyone even saw a GM in SoE games much less a DEV on something as "trivial" as a game breaking bug?:D
Was not trying to get off topic but felt like I needed to say that due to these people who continually attack a company when if you look out of over 100,000,000 costumers has had a total of less than 200 complaints with the BBB in the last 3 years. So I would not call that a horrible company.
right... 100 MILLION customers got their info stolen and it's the CUSTOMER's fault for not reporting SoE to BBB? last time i checked 100 MILLION people is almost 1/6th of the population of the UNITED STATES.... sure lets us ALL report to BBB about this breach....
Blizzard is 1/10 that size and has had 2500 complaints....
So no matter how you look at it you guys picking Sony apart they will still have a strong enough amount of people backing this that are matrure and know that companies are made of humans which at times error and make mistakes but you have to look at teh overall and not just tear them apart on one product or one mistake
do you REALLY believe a 10 to 12 year old kid CARES about their personal info being stolen? are you saying that those who CARE about their personal info being stolen are IMMATURE? are you saying that just because we are humans that error of this calibur should be excused? we are talking about 100+ million accounts after all. how would you like to live next to a nuclear power plant and have the same people manage the security of that station?
No matter how you look at this Sony is just as much of a victim here as us. This isn't about vengeance is mine this has been a major offense to everyone involved and no matter how you look at it. the criminals are who you should be tearing apart in this they are the ones that caused this. Sure Sony may have not felt like they needed to Beef things up but did you think that maybe that was because they had faith in their consumers that this kind of thing might not happen?
yes those who manage the 3 mile island and chernobyl powerplants were victims too... just like those who were on the deepwater horizon oil platform or those who were on exxon valdez. they were victims too.... but... eventually you have to ask yourself, what is the meaning of the word RESPONSIBILITY?
No instead someone gets in trouble because he messed with a patented code on the PS3 and hacks into it which gave them total rights to sue that person and everyone turns on them like vultures for them breaking the law in the first place? I guess I just do not understand todays way of thinking. It is sad when a long upstanding company gets attacked and everyone blames them for what the other person who did this needs to be taking responsibility for.
yes lets examin the concept of "hacking into the PS3" have you ever taken ANYTHING you OWN apart? something you bought with YOUR hard earned money? have you ever BROKE anything and tried to fix it yourself? have you ever changed oil or breaks on your car? have you installed extra memory or harddrive in your computer? anything/everything you touch these days have a patent on it. if you actually look in that simplistic way, you MUST take your car to the car dealership to get something as simple as a windshield wiper replaced or have your windshield fluid topped off:D....
at some point the word OWNERSHIP really needs to be reexamined or you might need to call the builder of your house reguarding the legality of hanging a picture frame on your wall:D
I am responsible for everything I do no one else makes me do this I do this by choise so if I mess with a patented code this is my fault not anyone elses and if I am breaking the law I have to pay the consequences. Think before you act. Think of the consequences of what is going to come out of what you are doing. And if you think the cons outway the pros don't do it. Breaking into someone's patent or hacking into systems is just as bad as drug addiucts that peddle drugs to our kids.
You all sound like a bunch of bitter alcoholics who don't know how to take responsibility for their own actions.
and you sound like someone who works for SoE?
So my point is, is that no matter how you look at this Somy is a victim right along with the rest of us. This is no different from teh Twin Towers and I don't hear anyone blaming our own government for that anymore even though they were tipped off that there was a threat lol. Everyone is just Glad that Osama is dead.
sure, why dont you send me all your personal information and credit card information and let me store it in PLAIN TEXT on the internet. dont worry if your information gets stolen, i'm not at fault because i'm also the victim and MY text file is stolen:D
This is a really tough break for not only Sony but the entire industry because this was a very largescale attack and yes other large companies have to sit and wait and see if they might possibly be the next target of this persons diabolical plans whatever they are.
you REALLY need to get a better understanding what the meaning of a "tough break" is.... getting hit by a 9.1 earthquake is a tough break. falling off a bicycle and bust your head open because you never tightened the wheels when assembling the bike is NOT a tough break. it's incompetence or negligence.
As far as Sony recovering it is like someone else said before people tend to have short term memories as soon as Sony comes out with the next best product whether it be online or consoles everyone will buy it and they will forget about this.
maybe, but i know I wont be the one giving SoE MY credit card information ever again:D
As far as how Sony chose to let information out. I will not say it was right or wrong, however they did not do things in any other way thanthe government would have. Do you think the government would have let it out so it would panis the entire nation until they had exact facts? No they would not have and that is what Sony did was wait until they had all of the phorensic facts on what information was stolen so that they could inform people properly and not start a panic. No government agency would have done any less.
ROFL I have NEVER been on a Sony payroll in my life. And yes within 6 hours after petitioning on EQ2 a GM got on and troubleshot and fix a quest bug while we were talking.... Adn no I do not fix things that are like that because usually they are warranteed and it null and voids any warranty on the equipment. Brole the law? Yes I have and did my time and excepted the consequences of what I did with grace. Finished and did everything I was told and came out a better person because of it. And personal information of me is public knowledge due to the fact that I am an ex-lawbreaker...... So pick apart my post all you want but until you have walked a mile in my shoes I don't think you have anything to say that would change my mind in this situation.
Not only did I pay for my crime I admitted to it after as many call them my Liar told me to walk in and lie to a judge in a court of law. These are criminals no matter how you look at it and he did not just try to fix his machine he changed things that is a whole different thing from fixing...
And my computer is rebuilt and fixing something is a computer? Most of the time I call a liscensed computer tech. I don't try to fix it myself unless it is something easy and I have permission from the people who built my computer to do that. And a computer is a whole different thing from a PS3 a PS3 is not a computer. This is what liscenses are for. Is to legally fix things that is why they are there in the first place.
And no I don't work on cars anymore because I realize they are a lot more complex than the old ones. That is what mechanics are for. It has never been legal to open up a consile and change the code of it. Nor will it ever be because that is what patenting os for is to protect the original maker of that thing.
And there you go if the hackers had not committed the crime in the first place we would not be discussing this would we? So who are you going to really blame? Put the blame where it belongs and all you hackers out there think about this the next time you decide you want to be king of the hill because I guarantee you that this is going to cause our government to come down harder on hackers than EVER before.
Originally posted by Daffid011 Sorry wrong link! EQ2 Twitter account LINK Servers back online April 21st, Content patch April 28th, various other updates during the week. You can see several updates between April 21st and April 28th. SOE was only down for less than 1 day.
So in the previous reply when you said I was wrong, what was I wrong about?
There are 2 different enities - PlayStationNetwork (PSN) and SonyOnlineEntertainment (SOE). Both to some extent share network infrastructure.
Around 18th of April PSN network was under DDoS attack by the group Anonymous and probably at the same time network security was breached. Whether both attacks were co-ordinated or the intruders gain on the opportunity is unknown, later on Anonymous denied their responsibility for the intrusion though.
This is where the intrusion was firstly detected and PSN network was shutdown first.
At that time, there was no indication that SOE network was affected by the attack thus it kept operating until 1st of May when it was shutdown immediately after the evidence of the data theft was obtained.
I guess what caused your confusion is PSN and SOE being two different entities and some press release and information relating to PSN, some to SOE.
Well all I can say is that I have been buying Sony products for many years and have never had service or product problems with this company. I do believe the number of Sony custumers who are happy with them outways the number who hate on them.
wow sounds like somebody is getting a SoE paycheck for being a spin doctor:D
Now I notice that a lot of people on this forum seem to be stuck on EQ1. Guys it isn't coming back get over it, it is a thing of the past. Things have always been like this in this industry. One thing goes out and a new thing comes in. The more technology that is found the firther they advance things and if they find something that meets a bigger crowd rather than a small one then that ios what they are going to go with because they are a big company and they obviously know what keeps them making monewy and keeps them surviving to continue to put new products out.
yes, and it gives a good indication of how SoE treats their customer. past experiance with a company is the ONLY way to judge how that company is going to behave.
I play EQ2 and have seen nothing wrong with SOE's game nor tehri service or the way I get treated. Shoot when something is wrong with a quest they fiox the problem right online while you are talking to them. Try getting that on WoW. Not happening.
right.... you are saying dev's actually answered your petition for a game bug and came online withing a hour and sat there and troubleshoot the game bug with you? sounds like PROOF that you WORK for SoE doesnt it?:D when was the last time any other people actually had their petition answered within a week? better yet, when was the last time anyone even saw a GM in SoE games much less a DEV on something as "trivial" as a game breaking bug?:D
Was not trying to get off topic but felt like I needed to say that due to these people who continually attack a company when if you look out of over 100,000,000 costumers has had a total of less than 200 complaints with the BBB in the last 3 years. So I would not call that a horrible company.
right... 100 MILLION customers got their info stolen and it's the CUSTOMER's fault for not reporting SoE to BBB? last time i checked 100 MILLION people is almost 1/6th of the population of the UNITED STATES.... sure lets us ALL report to BBB about this breach....
Blizzard is 1/10 that size and has had 2500 complaints....
So no matter how you look at it you guys picking Sony apart they will still have a strong enough amount of people backing this that are matrure and know that companies are made of humans which at times error and make mistakes but you have to look at teh overall and not just tear them apart on one product or one mistake
do you REALLY believe a 10 to 12 year old kid CARES about their personal info being stolen? are you saying that those who CARE about their personal info being stolen are IMMATURE? are you saying that just because we are humans that error of this calibur should be excused? we are talking about 100+ million accounts after all. how would you like to live next to a nuclear power plant and have the same people manage the security of that station?
No matter how you look at this Sony is just as much of a victim here as us. This isn't about vengeance is mine this has been a major offense to everyone involved and no matter how you look at it. the criminals are who you should be tearing apart in this they are the ones that caused this. Sure Sony may have not felt like they needed to Beef things up but did you think that maybe that was because they had faith in their consumers that this kind of thing might not happen?
yes those who manage the 3 mile island and chernobyl powerplants were victims too... just like those who were on the deepwater horizon oil platform or those who were on exxon valdez. they were victims too.... but... eventually you have to ask yourself, what is the meaning of the word RESPONSIBILITY?
No instead someone gets in trouble because he messed with a patented code on the PS3 and hacks into it which gave them total rights to sue that person and everyone turns on them like vultures for them breaking the law in the first place? I guess I just do not understand todays way of thinking. It is sad when a long upstanding company gets attacked and everyone blames them for what the other person who did this needs to be taking responsibility for.
yes lets examin the concept of "hacking into the PS3" have you ever taken ANYTHING you OWN apart? something you bought with YOUR hard earned money? have you ever BROKE anything and tried to fix it yourself? have you ever changed oil or breaks on your car? have you installed extra memory or harddrive in your computer? anything/everything you touch these days have a patent on it. if you actually look in that simplistic way, you MUST take your car to the car dealership to get something as simple as a windshield wiper replaced or have your windshield fluid topped off:D....
at some point the word OWNERSHIP really needs to be reexamined or you might need to call the builder of your house reguarding the legality of hanging a picture frame on your wall:D
I am responsible for everything I do no one else makes me do this I do this by choise so if I mess with a patented code this is my fault not anyone elses and if I am breaking the law I have to pay the consequences. Think before you act. Think of the consequences of what is going to come out of what you are doing. And if you think the cons outway the pros don't do it. Breaking into someone's patent or hacking into systems is just as bad as drug addiucts that peddle drugs to our kids.
You all sound like a bunch of bitter alcoholics who don't know how to take responsibility for their own actions.
and you sound like someone who works for SoE?
So my point is, is that no matter how you look at this Somy is a victim right along with the rest of us. This is no different from teh Twin Towers and I don't hear anyone blaming our own government for that anymore even though they were tipped off that there was a threat lol. Everyone is just Glad that Osama is dead.
sure, why dont you send me all your personal information and credit card information and let me store it in PLAIN TEXT on the internet. dont worry if your information gets stolen, i'm not at fault because i'm also the victim and MY text file is stolen:D
This is a really tough break for not only Sony but the entire industry because this was a very largescale attack and yes other large companies have to sit and wait and see if they might possibly be the next target of this persons diabolical plans whatever they are.
you REALLY need to get a better understanding what the meaning of a "tough break" is.... getting hit by a 9.1 earthquake is a tough break. falling off a bicycle and bust your head open because you never tightened the wheels when assembling the bike is NOT a tough break. it's incompetence or negligence.
As far as Sony recovering it is like someone else said before people tend to have short term memories as soon as Sony comes out with the next best product whether it be online or consoles everyone will buy it and they will forget about this.
maybe, but i know I wont be the one giving SoE MY credit card information ever again:D
As far as how Sony chose to let information out. I will not say it was right or wrong, however they did not do things in any other way thanthe government would have. Do you think the government would have let it out so it would panis the entire nation until they had exact facts? No they would not have and that is what Sony did was wait until they had all of the phorensic facts on what information was stolen so that they could inform people properly and not start a panic. No government agency would have done any less.
ROFL I have NEVER been on a Sony payroll in my life. And yes within 6 hours after petitioning on EQ2 a GM got on and troubleshot and fix a quest bug while we were talking.... Adn no I do not fix things that are like that because usually they are warranteed and it null and voids any warranty on the equipment. Brole the law? Yes I have and did my time and excepted the consequences of what I did with grace. Finished and did everything I was told and came out a better person because of it. And personal information of me is public knowledge due to the fact that I am an ex-lawbreaker...... So pick apart my post all you want but until you have walked a mile in my shoes I don't think you have anything to say that would change my mind in this situation.
Not only did I pay for my crime I admitted to it after as many call them my Liar told me to walk in and lie to a judge in a court of law. These are criminals no matter how you look at it and he did not just try to fix his machine he changed things that is a whole different thing from fixing...
And my computer is rebuilt and fixing something is a computer? Most of the time I call a liscensed computer tech. I don't try to fix it myself unless it is something easy and I have permission from the people who built my computer to do that. And a computer is a whole different thing from a PS3 a PS3 is not a computer. This is what liscenses are for. Is to legally fix things that is why they are there in the first place.
And no I don't work on cars anymore because I realize they are a lot more complex than the old ones. That is what mechanics are for. It has never been legal to open up a consile and change the code of it. Nor will it ever be because that is what patenting os for is to protect the original maker of that thing.
And there you go if the hackers had not committed the crime in the first place we would not be discussing this would we? So who are you going to really blame? Put the blame where it belongs and all you hackers out there think about this the next time you decide you want to be king of the hill because I guarantee you that this is going to cause our government to come down harder on hackers than EVER before.
If a bank had their vaults password set to 'password' and had the contents stolen, would the bank be up for 'negligence'?
While the robbers are the ones who commited the crime, the bank would also be in the gun if the above scenario is true. Same here. Sony knew about the vunerability but when the hacking happened, they didn't do anything about it on their production servers.
Sony might have been planning to fix the vunerability and was going through the normal QA procedures, but if we just look at the facts, the facts do not favor Sony.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Originally posted by jpnz Sony knew about the vunerability but when the hacking happened, they didn't do anything about it on their production servers.
How do you know they didn't do anything and not that the security measures they put in place where overcome?
There are 2 different enities - PlayStationNetwork (PSN) and SonyOnlineEntertainment (SOE). Both to some extent share network infrastructure.
Around 18th of April PSN network was under DDoS attack by the group Anonymous and probably at the same time network security was breached. Whether both attacks were co-ordinated or the intruders gain on the opportunity is unknown, later on Anonymous denied their responsibility for the intrusion though.
This is where the intrusion was firstly detected and PSN network was shutdown first.
At that time, there was no indication that SOE network was affected by the attack thus it kept operating until 1st of May when it was shutdown immediately after the evidence of the data theft was obtained.
I guess what caused your confusion is PSN and SOE being two different entities and some press release and information relating to PSN, some to SOE.
Don't try to turn this around like I don't understand the difference between the PSN and SOE. I'm fully aware of the situation and who was involved and the difference between the two.
Furthermore, care to provide some proof that Anonymous was still running DDOS attacks on the PSN on April 17-19th? According to news reports Anonymous stopped DDOS on the playstation network on April 7th, because it was negatively affecting players and they did not want to do that. LINK So where did you get your information from?
Here is the timeline again, so please let me know what I have incorrect.
April 17-19th Sony network was hacked
April 20 PSN shuts down
April 21 SOE shuts down
April 22 Sony servers back online. Told they were secured.
April 28 SOE says no customer data was taken
May 2 SOE takes down PC game servers and announces personal information from 24.6 accounts compromised. So everything SOE said about personal information being safe and their networks being secure was wrong.
May 3 SOE is forced to take down facebook game servers, because they were left online for some stupid reason.
Notice PSN never went back online until A) Sony was sure if information was taken or not and the servers were truely secure.
So again I think I have the situation accurately detailed and that SOE dropped the ball several times in their management of this situation, but maybe I missed something. You said I was wrong and I am curious where that might be.
Originally posted by Daffid011Don't try to turn this around like I don't understand the difference between the PSN and SOE. I'm fully aware of the situation and who was involved and the difference between the two.
I am not going through this again, already tried several times... I no longer even see your point in the mess you are posting.
Is this your boo boo?
Originally posted by Daffid011So everything SOE said about personal information being safe and their networks being secure was wrong.
Well, that I addressed already before:
Originally posted by GdemamiThere is no screw up.I have posted the basic course of actions and did not focus on the announcements regarding data theft because I wrongly assumed you understand that investigation takes time and new evidence is being discovered in the process. The problem is, the data has no physical form, they can be copied so you have a hard time to determine what was copied or even accessed or not.You cannot rule out that something was NOT stolen or NOT accessed. Which makes whole thing very difficult. Because of said above and because of ongoing investigation, later you release the information, more accurate it will be. It is though decision you have to make: You inform people early, you will get blamed later if the info turns out inaccurate. You inform people later, you will be blamed for leaving people in the wind.This applies to any investigation but there you can usually compare physical evidence to documented evidence, something you cannot really do with electronic data.
Were they wrong saying that before 1st of May that SOE data were not affected? Yes.
Could they know otherwise? No. Was there a reason to think otherwise? No.
You have to make a pick yourself, if you want accurate information, you have to wait. If you want the information fast, you take the risk it will be inaccurate.
At 22nd April, there were 2 external companies and FBI investigating the intrusion already, this is nothing you will get sorted out during your lunch break...
And there you go if the hackers had not committed the crime in the first place we would not be discussing this would we? So who are you going to really blame? Put the blame where it belongs and all you hackers out there think about this the next time you decide you want to be king of the hill because I guarantee you that this is going to cause our government to come down harder on hackers than EVER before.
for the most part, HACKING is NOT illegal. CRACKING is the illegal activity that HACKERS gets blamed for because news agencies are uneducated in the difference or refuse to report correctly. Hackers are security specialists who test volnerabilities of a system(often paid for by the people who needed their systems tested) a GOOD and COMPETENT senior system/database administrator must by definition be a degree of hacker simply to ensure the security of the system/database they are charged to administer/protect.
with that said, crackers are ciminals who are PARTLY at fault for this particular "problem". SoE IS at fault for having incompetent administrators, or worse, NOT prioritizing security of customer information over profiteering. the most likely scenario is the sys admins were TOLD that they need to do something else and put security on the back burner....
I am not going through this again, already tried several times... I no longer even see your point in the mess you are posting.
Originally posted by Gdemami
There is no screw up.
Were they wrong saying that before 1st of May that SOE data were not affected? Yes.
Could they know otherwise? No.
Was there a reason to think otherwise? No.
You have to make a pick yourself, if you want accurate information, you have to wait. If you want the information fast, you take the risk it will be inaccurate.
At 22nd April, there were 2 external companies and FBI investigating the intrusion already, this is nothing you will get sorted out during your lunch break...
I think the highlighted explains why you are so confused in the discussion. You seem pretty determined to find some way to excuse SOE from making any mistakes in this situation that you are trying to bring up so many unrelated points and meaningless speculation that it just doesn't make much sense anymore.
My message has been pretty consistant. SOE showed a lot of incompetence in how they handled this situation.
You say it takes time to figure these things out. PSN figured it out in less time that SOE did and SOE still got the answer wrong. If they needed more time they shouldn't have made the announcement. If they were not sure, they should not have made the announcement. That is a screw up on the part of SOE. There is no disputing that.
You say these things are hard, but PSN figured out their problems were so bad they needed to keep their servers offline for several days before even announcing there was a problem and on top of that they have kept the entire network down while they fix things. SOE didn't even wait 24 hours before they concluded their security review and put their servers back online. Then they have to bring them down a week later to enhance their security and conduct security reviews. Another obvious screw up.
If it was so hard the SOE couldn't get these answers right, they should have hired outside help. SCEI hired outside help a few days after they realized there was a problem. SOE waiting until almost 2 weeks after the problem to get help. After they already put their servers back online leaving them open to further attacks. Again, another screw up on thier part.
I notice you are not debating the timeline anymore. You declined to back up your claims that anonymous was conducting DDOS on April 17-19th. I really don't even care if you backup your claims anymore. I'll be glad to read any real information you might want to add, but at this point I don't really want to answer your baseless claims anymore.
Sony knew about the vunerability but when the hacking happened, they didn't do anything about it on their production servers.
How do you know they didn't do anything and not that the security measures they put in place where overcome?
Because I don't like to debate on 'what ifs'?
They had a vunerability and that was exploited. That is what we (non-Sony people) know as fact.
You can spin it however you want, but unless Sony says otherwise, those are the facts.
I think you are wasting your time with this. some people refuse to see the truth because they are hired to spin the truth... it's called reputation management service. google it and you will see what these people are hired to do... they are here to spin the story and try to counter the effect of SoE's failure to do their job.
They might not have known exactly how bad it was. The tech guys might not have been able to convince the men at charge. Who knows. Maybe it was a inside job. We will never know for sure, because SOE will spin the tale I'm sure.
You realize how hard it would be as a tech guy to tell the suits you need to shut the WHOLE network, from PS3 to PC down? Really. That is a TON of cash going down the drain EVERY day.
SOE just downsized it's workforce and now they get hacked....hmmmm I can take a guess at how this hacker knew the system. Maybe it was one of the people who designed it. Which means, SOE is in serious trouble.
This is an awful nightmare for a company, and I do feel bad. They are humans you know, despite what you think about SoE they aren't perfect.
Hitler wasn't perfect either; but, people naturally resent someone who tries to extreminate an entire race of people. SOE knew exactly what they were doing; it's all related to their business methods, to act like they are innocent is nieve. They got way too greedy for their own good and refused to heed countless warnings. They got exactly what they deserved. Who you should be feeling sorry for are the innocent people they robbed in the process.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
Comments
Ok fine, SOE is bigger then activision blizzard. I never had a playstation i dont know whats going on there. I'm still not reading that crazy guy's wall of text.
I think this is the biggest theft of personal information ever...
only other big theft i can think of was TJ Max having 50 million credit cards stolen a couple years ago
This was mostly personal information and not credit cards.. but it doesn't remove the risk of people having their identity stolen.. Just makes the thieves work a little harder to fill out credit card applications.
The entire online transaction system needs an overhaul.. or some form of regulatory standard.. people can't keep having their data stolen like this every couple years
*POINTS THE FINGER AT SOE AND LAUGHS HARD*
Feels like KARMA.
NEW IDEAS that can refresh the STALE state of MMORPGs
Lol i bet half the people whining here have there name email and date of birth on their facebook and twitter pages, and as for your cc info well there is a reason that credit card companies help with fraud protection if you are smart enough to do your part you will not loose a penny. .
Anyone who made a poor decision and gave up their checking account info to pay for anything over the internet well hopefully you will see the light and not do this anymore, if you cant get a prepaid game card just about anyone with a pulse can get a prepaid visa it's not like they sell them everywhere or anything like that.
Ahh crap I said I wasn't going to do it but I did it. I read the rest of the crazy guys post. There is parts in there about 9/11 and how people who play SOE games are alcoholics..... At first I was kind of upset at Sony for not letting me play some games, but now I understand. Sony is the victim. It's my fault, somehow I let this happen. Ahh well, I'm going to the grocery store to buy some cheap wine and pizza.
I thought we were whining because we couldnt play games? If we cared so much about our names and birthdates we wouldnt be playing MMOs in the first place. I for one don't care about who or what's been hacked and what they are going to do about it. I just want to click my EQ Launcher and play a freaking game!!!!!
Sorry wrong link!
EQ2 Twitter account LINK Servers back online April 21st, Content patch April 28th, various other updates during the week.
You can see several updates between April 21st and April 28th. SOE was only down for less than 1 day.
So in the previous reply when you said I was wrong, what was I wrong about?
Q4T
/word
Thanks for the highlight.
I agree being PCI certified does not mean your environment is secure. I was really puzzled SOE would not even have such basic things as firewall. Seems some people elaborated facts that aren't real.
ROFL I have NEVER been on a Sony payroll in my life. And yes within 6 hours after petitioning on EQ2 a GM got on and troubleshot and fix a quest bug while we were talking.... Adn no I do not fix things that are like that because usually they are warranteed and it null and voids any warranty on the equipment. Brole the law? Yes I have and did my time and excepted the consequences of what I did with grace. Finished and did everything I was told and came out a better person because of it. And personal information of me is public knowledge due to the fact that I am an ex-lawbreaker...... So pick apart my post all you want but until you have walked a mile in my shoes I don't think you have anything to say that would change my mind in this situation.
Not only did I pay for my crime I admitted to it after as many call them my Liar told me to walk in and lie to a judge in a court of law. These are criminals no matter how you look at it and he did not just try to fix his machine he changed things that is a whole different thing from fixing...
And my computer is rebuilt and fixing something is a computer? Most of the time I call a liscensed computer tech. I don't try to fix it myself unless it is something easy and I have permission from the people who built my computer to do that. And a computer is a whole different thing from a PS3 a PS3 is not a computer. This is what liscenses are for. Is to legally fix things that is why they are there in the first place.
And no I don't work on cars anymore because I realize they are a lot more complex than the old ones. That is what mechanics are for. It has never been legal to open up a consile and change the code of it. Nor will it ever be because that is what patenting os for is to protect the original maker of that thing.
And there you go if the hackers had not committed the crime in the first place we would not be discussing this would we? So who are you going to really blame? Put the blame where it belongs and all you hackers out there think about this the next time you decide you want to be king of the hill because I guarantee you that this is going to cause our government to come down harder on hackers than EVER before.
There are 2 different enities - PlayStationNetwork (PSN) and SonyOnlineEntertainment (SOE). Both to some extent share network infrastructure.
Around 18th of April PSN network was under DDoS attack by the group Anonymous and probably at the same time network security was breached. Whether both attacks were co-ordinated or the intruders gain on the opportunity is unknown, later on Anonymous denied their responsibility for the intrusion though.
This is where the intrusion was firstly detected and PSN network was shutdown first.
At that time, there was no indication that SOE network was affected by the attack thus it kept operating until 1st of May when it was shutdown immediately after the evidence of the data theft was obtained.
I guess what caused your confusion is PSN and SOE being two different entities and some press release and information relating to PSN, some to SOE.
Austism?
If a bank had their vaults password set to 'password' and had the contents stolen, would the bank be up for 'negligence'?
While the robbers are the ones who commited the crime, the bank would also be in the gun if the above scenario is true. Same here. Sony knew about the vunerability but when the hacking happened, they didn't do anything about it on their production servers.
Sony might have been planning to fix the vunerability and was going through the normal QA procedures, but if we just look at the facts, the facts do not favor Sony.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
How do you know they didn't do anything and not that the security measures they put in place where overcome?
Don't try to turn this around like I don't understand the difference between the PSN and SOE. I'm fully aware of the situation and who was involved and the difference between the two.
Furthermore, care to provide some proof that Anonymous was still running DDOS attacks on the PSN on April 17-19th? According to news reports Anonymous stopped DDOS on the playstation network on April 7th, because it was negatively affecting players and they did not want to do that. LINK So where did you get your information from?
Here is the timeline again, so please let me know what I have incorrect.
April 17-19th Sony network was hacked
April 20 PSN shuts down
April 21 SOE shuts down
April 22 Sony servers back online. Told they were secured.
April 28 SOE says no customer data was taken
May 2 SOE takes down PC game servers and announces personal information from 24.6 accounts compromised. So everything SOE said about personal information being safe and their networks being secure was wrong.
May 3 SOE is forced to take down facebook game servers, because they were left online for some stupid reason.
Notice PSN never went back online until A) Sony was sure if information was taken or not and
the servers were truely secure.
So again I think I have the situation accurately detailed and that SOE dropped the ball several times in their management of this situation, but maybe I missed something. You said I was wrong and I am curious where that might be.
I am not going through this again, already tried several times... I no longer even see your point in the mess you are posting.
Is this your boo boo?
Well, that I addressed already before:
Were they wrong saying that before 1st of May that SOE data were not affected? Yes.
Could they know otherwise? No.
Was there a reason to think otherwise? No.
You have to make a pick yourself, if you want accurate information, you have to wait. If you want the information fast, you take the risk it will be inaccurate.
At 22nd April, there were 2 external companies and FBI investigating the intrusion already, this is nothing you will get sorted out during your lunch break...
Things I've learned since the playstation network has been down
Sony Makes a variety of products other than video games than can be enjoyable and fun..
like microwaves and cellphones
and It's amazing what america can get done while the PS3 network is down
for the most part, HACKING is NOT illegal. CRACKING is the illegal activity that HACKERS gets blamed for because news agencies are uneducated in the difference or refuse to report correctly. Hackers are security specialists who test volnerabilities of a system(often paid for by the people who needed their systems tested) a GOOD and COMPETENT senior system/database administrator must by definition be a degree of hacker simply to ensure the security of the system/database they are charged to administer/protect.
with that said, crackers are ciminals who are PARTLY at fault for this particular "problem". SoE IS at fault for having incompetent administrators, or worse, NOT prioritizing security of customer information over profiteering. the most likely scenario is the sys admins were TOLD that they need to do something else and put security on the back burner....
I think the highlighted explains why you are so confused in the discussion. You seem pretty determined to find some way to excuse SOE from making any mistakes in this situation that you are trying to bring up so many unrelated points and meaningless speculation that it just doesn't make much sense anymore.
My message has been pretty consistant. SOE showed a lot of incompetence in how they handled this situation.
You say it takes time to figure these things out. PSN figured it out in less time that SOE did and SOE still got the answer wrong. If they needed more time they shouldn't have made the announcement. If they were not sure, they should not have made the announcement. That is a screw up on the part of SOE. There is no disputing that.
You say these things are hard, but PSN figured out their problems were so bad they needed to keep their servers offline for several days before even announcing there was a problem and on top of that they have kept the entire network down while they fix things. SOE didn't even wait 24 hours before they concluded their security review and put their servers back online. Then they have to bring them down a week later to enhance their security and conduct security reviews. Another obvious screw up.
If it was so hard the SOE couldn't get these answers right, they should have hired outside help. SCEI hired outside help a few days after they realized there was a problem. SOE waiting until almost 2 weeks after the problem to get help. After they already put their servers back online leaving them open to further attacks. Again, another screw up on thier part.
I notice you are not debating the timeline anymore. You declined to back up your claims that anonymous was conducting DDOS on April 17-19th. I really don't even care if you backup your claims anymore. I'll be glad to read any real information you might want to add, but at this point I don't really want to answer your baseless claims anymore.
Because I don't like to debate on 'what ifs'?
They had a vunerability and that was exploited. That is what we (non-Sony people) know as fact.
You can spin it however you want, but unless Sony says otherwise, those are the facts.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I think you are wasting your time with this. some people refuse to see the truth because they are hired to spin the truth... it's called reputation management service. google it and you will see what these people are hired to do... they are here to spin the story and try to counter the effect of SoE's failure to do their job.
They might not have known exactly how bad it was. The tech guys might not have been able to convince the men at charge. Who knows. Maybe it was a inside job. We will never know for sure, because SOE will spin the tale I'm sure.
You realize how hard it would be as a tech guy to tell the suits you need to shut the WHOLE network, from PS3 to PC down? Really. That is a TON of cash going down the drain EVERY day.
SOE just downsized it's workforce and now they get hacked....hmmmm I can take a guess at how this hacker knew the system. Maybe it was one of the people who designed it. Which means, SOE is in serious trouble.
Hitler wasn't perfect either; but, people naturally resent someone who tries to extreminate an entire race of people. SOE knew exactly what they were doing; it's all related to their business methods, to act like they are innocent is nieve. They got way too greedy for their own good and refused to heed countless warnings. They got exactly what they deserved. Who you should be feeling sorry for are the innocent people they robbed in the process.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei