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Fun through tier 3 then ...
Vitalis55
Member Posts: 34
Ok, I'm not gonna try and say that no one will have fun after tier 3 but this is what you can expect.
At tier 1 you will be in matches against tier 1 & tier 2 tanks.
At tier 2 you will be in matches against tanks up to tier 4, this is especially true for arty & TDs.
At tier 3 you will be in matches against tanks up to tier 5. Not a big deal if you play arty or TD.
Then comes tier 4 and that's when the pain begins. I feel safe in saying that 90% of your matches will have tanks up to tier 7. It wouldn't be so bad if 10% was matched with tier 7's but that's not the way it is and it seems the game producers want it that way.
Now why would they want it that way you may ask. It is a F2P game and they have to make money, that's obvious. It seems though that they want the tier 4 tanks to be so mismatched that people will want to pay money to buy gold to exchange for experience. This way players can research the modules without having to actually play the tank and then buy a tier 5 tank. Researching the module upgrades is similar to skill trees in many fantasy mmos. There are certain tank upgrade modules you have to use exp to research (learn) in order to research the next available tank in that tree.
Tier 5, btw, is only slightly bettter in matches than tier 4 so don't expect things to suddenly get much better. Polls on both U.S and EU forums show tier 4 to be the least enjoyable tier by a huge margin. Check the gameplay discussion/official V6.4 matchmaking discussion thread on the oficial forums if you doubt this. It is THE number 1 complaint about the game.
Personally I just stopped playing my tier 4 & tier 5 tanks until they change the matchmaking system and won't be supporting them with real money. If you can somehow have fun with this horrible system then by all means go for it.
Comments
I've had fun so far (I have a tier 8 Tiger 2) and don't have much to complain about but matchmaking is something they really need to work on. The tier 4/5 grind sucked even with a premium account so I can imagine how bad it is without one.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
A premium account wouldn't make it any better, it would just make it faster through the grind. And I wouldn't even think of it as a grind if I was having fun, but constantly having to fight in matches with tanks up to 3 tiers higher is just plain no fun at all. The fun comes from balanced competition regardless of what tier tank you play. I think most folks probably feel the same way based on the posts on the official forums.
I think their business mindset is going to bite em in the rear in the long run (if there is a long run for WOT). I'm pretty certain there are a lot of other people that think the way I do and will refuse to pay them money as long as they feel they are trying to be forced to buy their way to the higher tiers. Just make it fun in all the tiers and folks will support the game.
I'm not arguing that the middle tiers kind of suck when it comes to matching with higher tanks, and I absolutely hated tiers 3-6. The match making seems to depend on time of day and how many others are on etc. Also, up to tier 6 and 7 depending on the nations tanks and type, the experience comes pretty quickly and you level through quickly without having to use gold. At tier 6 and 7 it starts to bog down because the amount of xp you need is exponentially higher and the increase that you are awarded per match does not increase as much as the required amount for your next tier tank seems too.
Also, the original post was somewhat confusing. You cannot just buy experience with gold. You can convert excess experience earned with a tank that no longer has any use for experience (premium tank or elite tank). There are two types of experience, the experience you earn with a tank that can only be used with that tank, or free experience, which can be used by any tank. Each match you earn normal experience with a tank, 5% of that value is added to the free experience pool. If you have an elite tank (all modules and next tank bought) or a premium tank (one you payed gold for) you can convert the experience earned by those tanks to free experience to be used by any tank so in a sense you can buy experience, but you still have to play matches with the elite or premium tank first. One gold converts 25 regular experience to free experience. You cannot convert experience that is earned in a tank that is not elite or premium unless you sell that tank. I am actually not sure about premium tanks either though because I have not bought one....I am assuming they earn regular xp like an elite tank, I know you earn credits with them.
The premium tanks, particularly the german Lowe or russian KV-5 seem pretty prevelant and only seem over powered, because they are essentially tier 10 tanks and very few have leveled all the way to a tier 10 tank, but even in my tier 7 tanks I can compete with them just fine. Getting from tier 7 to 8 is taking for ever and is at times frustrating when you are only tier 7 with all tier 10's but that is similar situation to the original poster's frustration...my point being it can happen until you get to tier 10 I suppose.
Anyway...its an ok game if you just want to get in and shoot some stuff up...not really an MMO in my opinion, but I am having fun with it now and then.
I enjoy the matches with the higher tiered tanks. The xp and $ rewards are a lot higher if you damage higher tiered tanks.
If your in a medium tank, just manuever behind the heavy's and shoot the low armored back.
If your in a heavy, load up High Explosive ammo and fire away.
Remember, its a team game. You cant go head to head with every tank in the game.
Its a team game with no way to team up with friends other than paying, lol.
T4vsT7 battles were made to make T4 players want to get to higher tier so they can win. And it will stay the same (and grindy) unless you get to top tier where you either have to pay for premium/credits or farm on lesser tier tanks.
It might seem ok if you are using a soviet tank (1-2 tier higher guns, lol). Or SPGs, being able to damage any tank from safe distance seems fine. Or TDs, which are protected by trees and stuff better than any low-mid tier heavy tank. For any other tanks, well, be prepared for some painfull expirience. Going for a medium tank (which are generally outclassed by heavies till T9 (T-54 "roflcopter" tier) will force you to play "scout" tanks, getting yourself killed times and times without being able to even scratch a single tank. Well some people like it, but I bet most dont. While german tank line is OK (good armor and speed) you will much more fun (and frustration) with M3Lee and other "fun2die" tanks.
In the end its always the same - battles of SPGs and TDs, some heavies and a couple of medium tank zealots (medium tanks were most numerous during WW2, but trust me, devs dont give a shit about that). If thats what you like, then free 2 play, otherwise pay to skip gimp-tiers.
p.s. game was much more fun in beta, when you could play with friends for free, before teleporta fix, where mediums (pre T9) were usefull, where SPGs didnt have laser targetting, where grass was greener, oh well...
IZI MODO?! Ha-ha-ha!
There are no T4vsT7 matches. Full stop. There are mix of T4-T7 vs mix of T4-T7 matches. If you are at the bottom of the list, you scout and 2-nd line support. If you are at the top, you are the firepower. Simple as that.
SPGs are a joke on lower levels, if you know how they play.
2 meds rape TD of similar level, if work in concert.
T54 is OP right now, should change in 6.5 with introduction of Patton and later E50. Balance is a constant work in progress, developers monitor statistics and any tank, which goes above average figures, gets nerfed.
Soviet tanks seem a bit overpowered in general, the developers argue that it's historically correct. Personally I don't care, I play German and American brances and enjoy them.
iBlaspheme speaketh the truth
"nerf rock, paper is working as intended."
- Scissors.
Head Chop
2 anyone of the same level can rape 1 anyone of the same level, simple as that. Though if played right, heavy can rape 2 non-T9 meds. So unless you are T9 med your (non-T9 med) chances against same tier heavies are very slim, almost non existent. You are a phat scout, live with that. Heavies or TDs can do all you can do (except scouting, lol) better. Sweet frigging balance that is.
Speaking about OP: devs need money (and they love it a little too much, just look at their not so smart PR), they make imba tank (like T-54 or T32 before that) and get the money from people going for the flavor of the month, usual practice in many f2p games. If you doubt, then tell me, why did it take few months to fix T32 armor issue? Same with their statistics. When you are put against +/- 3 tiers, it cant be accurate, yet they call it balance. They have clan wars, this is where the balance should be, yet nothing, full of SPGs IS-7 and T-54s.
But the main issue is how much they can actually do. They got the whole paying system in a few days, yet it takes months to fix minor issues. There is only 1 game type, yet they are developing World of Warplanes with WoT still in post beta release state. People pay them, why should they try better if they are getting money for thier lobby mmo on a korean "big world" 2d (there's no Z) mmo engine which, simply, sux (Men of War has better physics that WoT, RTS with way more tanks, infantry and cannons, destuctable objects and other stuff than a tank "simulator" game).
p.s. I played soviet line mostly, later I went with USA. I liked their tanks more, yet the frustration from leveling those tanks-with-1-tier-lower-top-gun has never left me.
p.p.s. serb is the phattest troll they have, and he's their leading designer. I wont expect much from him. Being in a public restroom is better than reading what he says.
p.p.p.s. The game was fun in beta and I had high hopes for it, but after all that "nothing" they've done and their attitude towards players... well, I hope you wont do the same mistake either, hoping for a better game, lol.
edit: oh shi... wall of text
edit2: in beta there was one good patch. It allowed one to shoot and destroy modules of the tank with reliabilty. People who could aim on the move and knew the weak points (e.g. skilled players) could dominate the game (killing 2 T-44, IS-7 and some other tanks with T34-85... was really fun
). Taking your time and aiming for an ammo rack payed out (unlike now, when tanks die by getting their hp to zero). But there were so much whine on forums from heavy tank users, who thought that just by getting heavy they could dominate others, that chance of module damaging was nerfed to 5 times lower than it was. IN A WEEK. Not only that showed that they can and will fix what they want, it was also made so because they want people to get higher tier tanks to win the game, otherwise good players would be using T6-T7 tanks (which are awesome) and have fun without bothering with repair and ammo costs for higher tier tanks. Which means less grinding, less premium and less money. It also means that game will be no longer get bigger e-tank to win, which is bad for business too.
p.s. and why the hell cant I play with friends without the damn premium? f2p with friends sounds like forced2pay.
IZI MODO?! Ha-ha-ha!
Sorry, don't have time to respond to everything you said. M3 Lee sucks, use free xp to skip it, if you have no patience. Many meds can kill heavy of the same level one on one. I just killed 2 Tigers in the same match with my T20. What did I do wrong? Same with TD. But it's very situational. Two of them do it guaranteed, team up, mate. Being at the bottom of the list - I scored my highest numbers, when I was at the lower part, I followed the "big guys" and just shot cowardly from behind. It was so much fun to finish off heavies a level higher than me. Some tanks can't scout, support your heavies, they are very vulnerable to flank attacks of meds and lights.
I don't see the developers greedy at all. They are quite reasonable, comparing to other F2P games. SerB is not the most polite person in the world (does he write anything on the NA server's forum?), take it as a cultural difference and just make fun out of it/him. Personally, I don't spend much time on the boards.
Have fun
Just wanted to comment on a few things. No disrespect meant to anyone.
That is much easier said than done. More than likely you will get your posterior shot to hell by another tank when you try that. Or more likely by arty if there is still one alive on the other team. And then there is the suggested tactic of using a higher level tank as cover while you pop out and shoot. That usually let's you get 1, maybe 2 shots off. After that the enemy will know you are there and ignore the higher threat and go for you since you are the easy kill and means more xp for them.
I wish I had a WoT gold for every time this has happened to me, arty especially will get off the higher threat heavies and aim straight for you. I stopped playing my T34-85 due to this. I don't think anyone in the official forums is saying that none of the matches should involve tanks 3+ tiers higher than your own, just that the vast majority of the matches should not be. A challenge is fine sometimes but not 95% of the matches, that gets old fast.
One person on the WoT forums responded to the matchmaking problem saying "this is due to the insufficient player base using med tier tanks". Hmm. could this be because people don't want to play medium tier tanks due to the matchmaking system?
I don't believe anyone is thinking they should be able to go head to head with any tank. That was never even implied. And yes it is a team game but unless you are playing clan wars every match gathers random players that have never played with each other. It's a little much to ask that random players will really know how to act as a team to get the benefit of working together as a real team. That's reality and anything else is little more than wishful thinking.
I am also playing M41. With 4 shots per min and 6.5 seconds aiming time, I don't bother with reasonably smart mediums.
Shooting from behind a cover - don't be predictable. Small tips: watch for the opposing heavies shots, they have a very long reload time, you can fit between them. When an enemy is exposed, you can see where he is pointing his boomstick, just approach from a different angle, or break your show up pattern, they would have to switch to another target - basically they have to use every loaded shell.
That's true, that you not always can reach enemy from behind or sides, try to fight their flank support then. Or just try to keep them tracked and/or lit up for your artillery.
There is no a single recipe for all situations.
One more note: there is no "more xp for an easy kill". There is no xp for a kill per se. XP is for damage, more XP is for damaging higher level tanks.
Good tips, all of which I am aware of but still good for new folks in the game. Fitting betwen higher heavies seems like a good idea but the heavies won't appreciate it much if you hinder their ability to manuever while they are fighting the enemies. I try to respect that and make sure they have the room they need. There has been many times I've been unable to get out of the line of fire due to some numnut crowding me and I end up dieing because of it. Just my opinion of the matter.
And yes you are correct that a kill doesn't mean anything but a pretty stat but there are a lot of players that will go for the easy kills just for those pretty stats. I've just seen many many times that arty will disregard the higher threats to go for the lower tiered tanks. I've witnessed many times where there will be a fight between 1 or more heavies and arty just ingores trying to help their own heavies in the fight and go for the lower tanks that are near. /salute if you don't do that but many do.
I've also seen arty waste their shells trying to flush my lower tank out of cover while there are higher tier tanks nearby out in the open they could be helping out by shooting.
I don't shoot meds, because the chances are slim, not because I am so much into team play
I will gladly kill any med or even light thinking he is invisible and sitting still 
, given I don't have more juicy targets atm. But most likely I won't shoot any med at 5-10% hp, it's just so lame 
I agree to some of vitalis posts, most of people go for easy prey, even if it means ingroring higher threat targets. They get more xp/credits if their shots dont bounce of your meds armor (and they wont) and if they get a kill, not to mention bonus to e-penis size.
Also, while playing med, you have to go out of your way to get those nice 2heavy kills, while being a TD guarantee you those 2 kills if you position yourself right. I got 8 kills on Su-100 with another random player on heavy having 6 after our whole team died. I doubt it was possible to do the same on a medium tank.
p.s. SerB is posting on ru forums, and he isnt a very nice person. Being greedy is ok, its business, they need money. Yet it just doesnt feel right that they got the payment system up so fast, yet cant make a new game mode. Well, not being able to play with friends w/o spending money sux too, I wish there was an option to pay only for that, not for the whole premium thing. I've spent some time on the boards during the CBT before they began banning anyone just for mentioning their pay4friend system or some %tankname% (T32 then T-54) being imba. Add to that their support of people trolling those "who speak against wargayming", and you get one stinky board with no people to complain. Well, they got what they wanted, russia style.
IZI MODO?! Ha-ha-ha!
At the beginning of the match, yes, there is a lot of support. It changes closer to the end.
They were noobs, if they allowed you to make 6 kills. I guess those idiot were coming one by one. You would be dead in a few seconds in a coordinated attack. I am still amused that so many people don't understand it and prefer to sit in bushes and watch their teammates die.
Don't read ru forums before dinner (c)
OP is correct: matchmaking is completely broken. Your Tier-5 tank will end up in just as many Tier-8 matches as it will 5 and 6, which of course is ridiculous. I wouldn't mind so much if it was a matter of necessity, meaning if there simply weren't enough tanks of your own, reasonable tier-range to form a match. But that's not the case. You can plainly see that there are plenty of tanks to make a correctly matched game; it just doesn't do it.
I don't think this is something they will ever fix, because a) The developer seems to think it's supposed to work that way, and b) Too many players drank that particular kool-aid; you'll hear them describe the situation as if it were a matter of tactics rather than a matter of poor game design. But it is poor design, plain and simple.
Bottom line, if you enjoy grinding XP so that you can be the trash mob in someone else's fight, this game is for you. Otherwise skip it, or just don't progress past the early tiers.
This is by design and this is exactly what makes this game so enjoyable. Restict matches to the same level tanks = make it totally predictable and worn-out in a few battles. But I have almost 500 matches in my PzIV and it's still fun, even I have 2 elited lvl7 meds and a KT.
Just curious. If having most of the battles at or close to same level is predictable how is having most of the matches with tanks 3+ tiers higher any less predictable? For example my tier 5 StuG III tank destroyer, most matches are like this:
All but 3 or 4 of the tanks in the match are 3+ tiers higher than the StuG and your chances of doing anything but denting the paint of the tank is slim. And that's if your shot actually hits and isn't one of the non-damage hits. So to be of any use at all I am pretty much forced to immediatley hide at the start and hope that one of the 3 or 4 tanks at or near my level wanders into range and LOS. And it's probably gonna be less than 3 or 4 since at least 2 of them will be arty behind the enemy front lines.
Having said that let me say that no one forces me to use this tactic. I can venture along with big boys and hope to damage something somewhere without getting one-shotted early in the battle. Good luck with that. I've tried many tactics and it all comes down the scenerio I just described. The same goes with playing a regular tank and not a TD.
The point is that either way, battles with tanks are at or near level or tanks are 3+ tiers higher, can both be considered predictable. Personally I think having most tanks close to same level is less predictable since it provides a larger variety of possible tactics. Also personnaly I wouldn't mind about 30% of the battles with 3+ higher tier tanks. It makes for some extra variety.
I do agree it is by design but not for any predictablilty reasons. As I've pointed out based on WoT forum posts and in-game chat, a vast majority hates tiers 4 & 5 (and 6 to some degree) and they will buy gold to exchange for xp to get through those tiers as fast as possible. Most don't max the modules but research just what is needed to get the next tank. And that is what I believe is by design, to get players to spend real money. And I am by far not along in this belief.
It's how I feel about it anyway and is just my opinion.
I been in many a match where my team was the underdog, because the way silly matchmaker works, pull off a win that shouldn't have happen.
I don't play TDs and don't know exactly how they are balanced. I heard they do tend to be placed in higher level matches. My Pz4 and T20, which I play most often, are placed very evenly at the top and bottom. Diffrent placement allows me to play different roles and use different tactics from scout to a fearsome damage dealer - my personal record 8 tanks is in Pz4. In higher level matches you have to play flanking, scout and sometimes just a distraction sacrifice. Almost any tank in the game can be penetrated from sides - King Tiger has 80 mm side armor or track and let your arty finish him.
Level 5 have several excellent tanks: Pz4, Sherman, T-34, even your Stug is considered to be one of the best TDs in the game.
You are tottally wrong about the developers' intention to force you into gold power leveling. In fact, it's exactly the opposite. The game designed the way that you are forced to play lower level tanks to financially support your higher levels. By design you are loosing money in high tier tanks, at least on non-premium accounts. People like me buying premium accounts to get to higher level tanks because we eager to try different tanks, not because we find level 3-5 boring and believe in magic "suddenly fun again" at higher levels. If it was not fun from the start and all the way through, no way they would get a penny from me.
Do you prefer easy mode?
I perfer an equal fight.
But I do like winning outmatched fights... makes winning so much sweeter.
I was just pointing out that teamwork can win a match, no matter what tanks the macthmaking sticks you with.
I base my opinions on two things; personal experience and other WoT players, either by in-game chat or from the forums. I'm sure there are folks who use gold to get to the higher tiers for the same reason as you and that's fine, not a thing wrong with that. But as I have repeatedly said, the overwhealming posts state their reason is due to matchmaker. Now I guess they could all be lying, you never know. I know there are people that will piss and moan about anything and everything but they are easy to spot on the forums and in chat so I disregard them.
I am tempted to start a poll on the WoT forum on just this topic; "Why do you use gold to get to the higher tiers faster?"
I may end up being wrong as you say but I'm pretty confident what the outcome will be. Again, no one has to take my word for it just go read the forums. Here is the link for any that want to check it out for themselves:
http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/38242-official-v64-matchmaking-discussion-thread/
Regarding your claim to play lower level tanks to financially support your higher levels. You're welcome to do that if you wish but I offer this link to show what others (and myself) think:
http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/42529-average-payout-by-tier/page__p__617482__hl__tier__fromsearch__1#entry617482
Now as to the real true reason that the matchmaker does what it does we could both be wrong. If my memory serves me correctly (and that's a big 'if') I think I've seen it stated that the devs have said it's due to not enough higher tier tanks and lower tiers are needed to fill the teams. That and to speed up the wait time to fill teams. From what I've read from players, they are willing to wait longer to get a more balanced match of near tier tanks.
About TDs. My AT-1 (tier 2) can be put in matches with up to tier 5 but most consist of tier 2-4 which is ok by me. My tier 5 StuG can be put with up to tier 8 tanks and is not uncommon. I don't keep an actual count but by best guess I'd say that about 20% consist of tanks tier 4-7. The tier cap of matches for TDs does seem to be higher than regular tanks and I believe that's because of the guns they have. Seems I've read that on the forums. Probably the reason you won't see tier 2 TDs in any match you play with a tier 1 tank. It's interesting however that you will occasionally see a tier 1 tank thrown into a match with tier 5 & 6. Maybe just a warped sense of humor from WoT devs.
The topic is about the team vs team matchmaking, not about within the team distribution. There are some complaints about the latter, but definitely not even a majority, as you are trying to present it. Needless to say the players visiting the topic are not the majority of the community in the first place.
"tier 5/6 is kind of the sweet spot"
"Ive made good money in tier 6-7. In tier 9 I lose money often...even with premium"
How exactly does it contradict what I said about developers forcing you to play lower level tanks?
And no proof of "seen it stated that the devs have said it's due to not enough higher tier tanks and lower tiers are needed to fill the teams". This does not make much sense actually, people level up very fast and in a very short time span the game would be filled with high level tanks only, which would hurt the game in the long run.
Tier 4 can be a real pain in the ass and not just because of the match making of the game.
More artillery/tank destroyers, heavy class tanks and new strategies. High explosive rounds become viable options against certain tanks. Several very very fast tanks hit the field as well.
The real root of the problem is that stock tier 4 tanks are vastly underpowered in these fights. Much more so than stock tier 1-3 tanks in their respective fights. The game really picks up in T4 and above fights.
However, once the tier 4 tanks are fully upgraded they can contribute very effectively to those matches. They just have to be played different.