IMHO the term themepark was coined by Blizzard to help differentiate Wow from EQ, to explain how they wanted them to be different. EQ had a heavy focus on advancement, but placing barriers in the way of that advancement that were challenging to overcome. Blizzard was trying to explain how they were more focused on making things fun rather than accomplishing goals. In some sense, I think only Blizzard really knows what a themepark MMO is or how to make one. The reason there are so many themepark MMOs is not because everyone thought a themepark MMO was such a great idea, but because everyone was chasing Wow because it was massively successful and that's how they described their MMO.
For me, one of the biggest issues I have with modern themeparks is the lack of choice.
When leveling, your ONLY choice seems to be to grind quests: you don't get enough xp to just grind mobs, there are no other ways to level so your stuck. This reduces replayability as well as turns away players who dont like what they are forced to do.
I've only played 1 sandbox game, SWG Pre-cu, and it was not user friendly at all, however, you had tons of choice! After I had the basics sorted, I could go to almost any planet I wanted and be able to find creatures I could kill to level up. I could do this solo, in a group, buffed or unbuffed, I could grab quests to help, or just go off exploring. Sometimes I'd go to planet with the goal of visiting every point of interest whilst killing everything I find in between.
Sure, SWG had tons and tons of problems, but whenever I logged in I felt like I was presented with a ton of options for how I wanted to spend my evening, whether I was at endgame or leveling.
When I compare that experience to playing through SW:TOR, I felt like I had no choice whatsoever. I could grind quests along a linear path, or pvp in the same 4 warzones. At endgame, I could do the raids once a week, or pvp in the same 4 warzones. I constantly felt restricted by the systems in the game, constantly repeating myself until I was so bored I logged off and eventually quit.
I don't really care whether an MMO is labelled a themepark or a sandbox. If I'm going to "live" in a virtual environment, then it needs to cater for all my moods. From that point of view, I definitely think sandbox is the way to go just because I don't think its possible for a developer to generate enough content to constantly satiate my moods and gaming pace, so I'd rather the designers came up with some awesome systems so I can entertain myself, rather than relying on overworked, underpaid devs.
Ultimately, the "best" MMO is going to incorporate all the best features from both philosophies of design because both philosophies have a lot to offer.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
For me, one of the biggest issues I have with modern themeparks is the lack of choice.
When leveling, your ONLY choice seems to be to grind quests: you don't get enough xp to just grind mobs, there are no other ways to level so your stuck. This reduces replayability as well as turns away players who dont like what they are forced to do.
I've only played 1 sandbox game, SWG Pre-cu, and it was not user friendly at all, however, you had tons of choice! After I had the basics sorted, I could go to almost any planet I wanted and be able to find creatures I could kill to level up. I could do this solo, in a group, buffed or unbuffed, I could grab quests to help, or just go off exploring. Sometimes I'd go to planet with the goal of visiting every point of interest whilst killing everything I find in between.
Sure, SWG had tons and tons of problems, but whenever I logged in I felt like I was presented with a ton of options for how I wanted to spend my evening, whether I was at endgame or leveling.
When I compare that experience to playing through SW:TOR, I felt like I had no choice whatsoever. I could grind quests along a linear path, or pvp in the same 4 warzones. At endgame, I could do the raids once a week, or pvp in the same 4 warzones. I constantly felt restricted by the systems in the game, constantly repeating myself until I was so bored I logged off and eventually quit.
I don't really care whether an MMO is labelled a themepark or a sandbox. If I'm going to "live" in a virtual environment, then it needs to cater for all my moods. From that point of view, I definitely think sandbox is the way to go just because I don't think its possible for a developer to generate enough content to constantly satiate my moods and gaming pace, so I'd rather the designers came up with some awesome systems so I can entertain myself, rather than relying on overworked, underpaid devs.
Ultimately, the "best" MMO is going to incorporate all the best features from both philosophies of design because both philosophies have a lot to offer.
It is far from all themeparks that have that problem. Gw2 is one example, you can level up with hearts (kinda quests), by crafting, exploring (I don't think you could get to 80 by just exploring but you could get halfway or so), doing DEs, randomly slaughtering mobs and bosses, PvP (mass or in smaller numbers), minigames, personal story and dungeons (but the last one can only be used from lvl 35).
It is true that certain games more or less forces you to play in a very specific way but it is not really because they are themeparks, some games just are made that way (and the same things goes for sologames, just compare a Dragon age game with a Fallout game). Themeparks means that the content in a game is made by the devs (and that most of it is scripted), not that you are forced to do quests. There have been themeparks without quests at all, Lineage didn't have quests, at least not when I played it way back.
Both Themepark and Sandbox have aimed markets and its communities, by me themepark is more new player friendly and casual, while sandbox offers hard-core gameplay and can possibly be even more time consuming than themepark with exclusion of but not necessarily "grind".Hybrids exist as well, but i dont believe in them.
My choice is sandbox all the way, but i simply cant find myself in any titles nowadays, it seems as if most of the good ones are paid ,and free to play ones lack a big part of either modern graphics, or creative gameplay.Loved Archeage, but got dissapointed in Trion, over and over again.Waiting for Star Citizen and torturing myself in Archeage atm. This shows example of some mmorpg choices in a good maner: Also the ability to create content from scratch is incredible, but it might be two sided blade how it impacts economy and balance since borders of what you can create ingame get more risky with every step of freedom.
I actually like the 'sandbox, players craft the theme parks' model. I'd live in neverwinter except the classes are just boring as mud. Still makes me mad. They had all of 4E to make class options and instead each class gets a very limited set of ability choices. The editor looked fabulous, but I just got bored. CoH/CoV had an incredible mission editor as well.
It's looking bad for sandboxes. The recent crop that looked to be a salvation is crumpling.
PFO: dead EQN: MIA but will probably emerge as a monstrous amalgam of anything but sandbox elements REPOP: seems to have tried to split the baby and has tech issues
etc.
It may be that the lateral path of gaming choice cannot be reborn, given the fratricide that Theme Park games commit on their more open world/freedom of choice brethren. Add to this the inept saviors that have emerged to either fail under their own inability or who chose to prey upon the wounded with snake oil wagons online, and there seems to be no one capable of delivering a home for the sandbox gamer who isn't a part of the PvP cannibal population.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
There is no true sandbox game, as there is no true theme-park style of game. Naming which is which, is not hard. Some games may have certain mechanics that are more open and sandbox'y, while the same game may have a theme elements too.
It really comes down to the underlying game mechanics the game is based on. Break those down and see if they allow the CHARACTER free movement and freedom of expression. Deepness and enriched Characters.
Or is it literally a "canned" parkway, that the story teller/developer is leading you threw, from one spot to the next, designed for your level, or this spot now, that other spot later after your 40. Guiding each person before and after you. All having the same experiences.
Does the world wait for them & their Character (as if it is cued up), or do they have to catch it in passing?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Both Themepark and Sandbox have aimed markets and its communities, by me themepark is more new player friendly and casual, while sandbox offers hard-core gameplay and can possibly be even more time consuming than themepark with exclusion of but not necessarily "grind".Hybrids exist as well, but i dont believe in them.
My choice is sandbox all the way, but i simply cant find myself in any titles nowadays, it seems as if most of the good ones are paid ,and free to play ones lack a big part of either modern graphics, or creative gameplay.Loved Archeage, but got dissapointed in Trion, over and over again.Waiting for Star Citizen and torturing myself in Archeage atm. This shows example of some mmorpg choices in a good maner: Also the ability to create content from scratch is incredible, but it might be two sided blade how it impacts economy and balance since borders of what you can create ingame get more risky with every step of freedom.
i always love sandbox, like skyrim, theme park easily get boring
But better. with better character model, better medieval world. In this game world u can choose good and evil. u can pick good side or fight with evil, or u can defeat both and become the king, build your very own kingdom.
with endless possibilities, u can do whatever in this sandbox game. the quest is endless, like skyrim, i will allow modder to mod the quest too.
from epic castle battle like lord of the rings, to the naval combat, you can fight the pirate or be the pirate.
pirate and assassin most of them are evil, but some is neutral, some fight for money and some fight for their own agenda.
assassin get paid by killing people, kidnaping or stealing goods, they are located in assassin guild, most of their job is high standart compared to bandits. they get paid handsomely because assassin is a profesional compared to a bandits. not anyone can be an assassin, u need to have a good reputation.
the world is alive, all the npc has their very own life and profession. every town is full with people and every land has enemy for you to defeat. You can be walking around the woods and found a women that about to be gang robbed and save her, or join if u evil. You can be an assassin to kill a king, but later chance your mind after falling in love with her princess. Or u can continue killing the King and kill the princess with your evil army.
u can become king's guard, fight your way to be the king royal guard or be the bandits and climb your way to be the bandit king.
as a bandit u can do so many crime, u can robbing people, kidnap, and many others crime. u can steal from the rich and feed the poor. Or steal from everyone, get rich, build your own guild full with mercenaries.
in this game you can build your own empire, but you need golds. mercenaries can be bought and they can be trained. but u need to paid them monthly salary. mercenaries can be a loyal followers if u have good relations with them. u doesnt need to paid them, but u can upgrade and buy their equipment so they fight better with u.
not just mercenaries, u also can building, house, guild center, but also required golds.
in this game, food is important. you need to eat, sleep, drink accordingly.
you can marry any female npc u like, from the normal village girl to a princess of the kingdom. but u need to has a good relations with them and some require quest.
u can live as normal villager, doing crafting, gathering, and marry a normal village girl, saving gold and build your own business, with that money u can hired mercenerie to protect your kingdom from the evil.
Behold, the world has story progression, as u living your normal life, the evil is attacking the world, how long can they hold to wait for you? who gonna save the women at the woods if you just being the chef at the restaurant? what will happen to the princess while u busy crafting your goods? you are the one, the messiah of the world to bring peace or utter chaos if choose to side with the evil. the choice is yours, to save them or not, u need to choose because u cant save everyone..or u might can... make your choice, choose your destiny.
you can also switch side, working with the king and later assassinate him, or be with the evil and kill evil leader. for this to happen, you will receive a letter as u climb your way up. after doing this you'll get promoted at your new side. but this is not easy.
talking about evil, the evil empire is the satan, like sauron in lord of the ring, this lucifer has their puppet kingdom. the only way to beat lucifer is to be good. u cant be neutral or evil to defeat him. u need God help.
This lucifer kingdom name is Mordor, the kingdom is scourge, he command the undead, orc, giant by his side. he also has his puppet kingdom call Rohan, Rohan is human kingdom, but they launch civil war with other human kingdom.
Currently Rohan has lauch civil war with Geffen (another human kingdom). At the same time Mordor is attacking Al debaran (your kingdom). So Geffen cant help Aldebaran from undead and orc attack. Mordor evil army is killing the human with orcs and undead. Al debaran king has been assassinate, you, your mother and sister fleed as refugees to Prontera (human kingdom) by ship.
Prontera cant let Geffen fall as it was the last line of defend, so they are sending army to fight Rohan at the same time increase castle defend as rumors of undead at the wild has started...
Start game.
u can choose your destiny
Character creations
1. lineage
- royal blood( your father is the king, start with more golds)
- normal townies, but not as poor as villager
- normal villager (less gold)
2. class (there will be at least 20 classes. you can choose any weapon u want, weapon is not class lock.
3. amazing character creation. with beautiful female 3d face that very realistic, big boobs, big butt.
As your and your family arrive at Prontera, you need to choose your action, obviously u need a job to feed your mom (40) and sister (15), you (18)
1. join the city guard
2. join the army to geffen (more golds)
3. find normal job at the city (chef, blacksmithing, farm, herb, fishing,etc)
4. join bandit
5. join pirate.
6. join king naval
7. join cult (help evil destroy Prontera)
8. join assassin (start killing lowlife)
9. bounty hunter, kill monsters, do quest and get paid.
10. be the mercenaries, work for the rich, protect their goods, escort their daughter.
Some job you need a good reputation before u can start, example an assassin, or mercenaries, richer people will hired u if u have a good record.
All this quest can be played offline and multiplayer, the combat is hard, as u need more mercenaries to fight for you later. combat like teso and dark soul 2
the online is for pvp, 1v1, 10vs10 matchmaking pvp and 1 open world 100vs 100.
the game will be buy to play.
i have many more ideas, especially quest choices. i will update later.
i always love sandbox, like skyrim, theme park easily get boring
Skyrim is a themepark. Sandbox doesn't mean open world, it means the game is characterized by "sand" (player-authored elements). In Skyrim you can't significantly change the game world: the themepark "rides" (dungeons, quests, cities) are dev-authored.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
i always love sandbox, like skyrim, theme park easily get boring
Skyrim is a themepark. Sandbox doesn't mean open world, it means the game is characterized by "sand" (player-authored elements). In Skyrim you can't significantly change the game world: the themepark "rides" (dungeons, quests, cities) are dev-authored.
Theme park early on was to signify the aspect of players being herded through the content (ie you stood in line to go on a ride, then got in line for another ride, etc...) and this form of play existed in the quests as well by having players do quests by level and zone by zone in a linear progression.
This is why games like EQ don't fit theme park descriptions. Dungeons and zones had large level ranges with some encompassing the entire spread of levels, quests weren't exactly level progressed, and were not offered in any progressive manner. There was no line to get into with EQ, no directed form of play. You just played, explored, etc... as you saw fit. Not only that, but you weren't penalized or restricted for going outside of your level range in content as is common with theme park MMOs that expect a certain line of progression to follow.
I am not familiar with Skyrim in detail, so I will use an example of an older version such as Morrowind. Games as such are not theme park games either. While there may be a story line that follows a linear resolution, the game play itself is according to the players own choices. They can resolve the world as they see fit, in any manner they see fit. So, I don't see such games either as being theme park such as WoW or similar clones.
Sandbox really depends on what is meant I guess. I am not familiar with the origin of this exactly (its initial intended meaning), so I would assume that it either means a general declaration of play style (ie there is no pre-formed expectations) that you play as you choose, follow your own path or it means the more specific term used today to signify player built worlds.
I think context is important here unless someone can provide an origin meaning (which would be useful to avoid all this confusion). I will say I do remember when theme park as a term came out and it was used to describe WoW as opposed to games like EQ, AC, and UO.
IMHO the term themepark was coined by Blizzard to help differentiate Wow from EQ, to explain how they wanted them to be different. EQ had a heavy focus on advancement, but placing barriers in the way of that advancement that were challenging to overcome. Blizzard was trying to explain how they were more focused on making things fun rather than accomplishing goals. In some sense, I think only Blizzard really knows what a themepark MMO is or how to make one. The reason there are so many themepark MMOs is not because everyone thought a themepark MMO was such a great idea, but because everyone was chasing Wow because it was massively successful and that's how they described their MMO.
Yep, that is exactly as I remember it. That is when I remember theme park being used. Sand box I think later on was used to explain player control over the world itself, though I am not sure as I don't remember that as clearly as I remember the term "theme park" coming about.
This type of discussion needs clear parameters of what we're comparing.
Themepark and sandbox are just descriptive words to describe - roughly - what the genre is, it's definitely not the defining label.
Themepark games are usually those based around linear progression. IE. bracketed skills, zones, quests, events, bosses, and so forth. This has a strong resemblance to what you'd call "hand-holding". Sandbox gives you the freedom of choice with your progression, there's no bracketing of features within the game, everything is accessible (to a degree) as soon as you start. This is the resemblance of creativity and the impression of freedom of life.
Now, there's no arguing which of the two descriptions is more sound in complexity, however, entertainment begs to differ.
i always love sandbox, like skyrim, theme park easily get boring
Skyrim is a themepark. Sandbox doesn't mean open world, it means the game is characterized by "sand" (player-authored elements). In Skyrim you can't significantly change the game world: the themepark "rides" (dungeons, quests, cities) are dev-authored.
Theme park early on was to signify the aspect of players being herded through the content (ie you stood in line to go on a ride, then got in line for another ride, etc...) and this form of play existed in the quests as well by having players do quests by level and zone by zone in a linear progression.
This is why games like EQ don't fit theme park descriptions. Dungeons and zones had large level ranges with some encompassing the entire spread of levels, quests weren't exactly level progressed, and were not offered in any progressive manner. There was no line to get into with EQ, no directed form of play. You just played, explored, etc... as you saw fit. Not only that, but you weren't penalized or restricted for going outside of your level range in content as is common with theme park MMOs that expect a certain line of progression to follow.
I am not familiar with Skyrim in detail, so I will use an example of an older version such as Morrowind. Games as such are not theme park games either. While there may be a story line that follows a linear resolution, the game play itself is according to the players own choices. They can resolve the world as they see fit, in any manner they see fit. So, I don't see such games either as being theme park such as WoW or similar clones.
Sandbox really depends on what is meant I guess. I am not familiar with the origin of this exactly (its initial intended meaning), so I would assume that it either means a general declaration of play style (ie there is no pre-formed expectations) that you play as you choose, follow your own path or it means the more specific term used today to signify player built worlds.
I think context is important here unless someone can provide an origin meaning (which would be useful to avoid all this confusion). I will say I do remember when theme park as a term came out and it was used to describe WoW as opposed to games like EQ, AC, and UO.
I think with your post, the whole "theme park, sandbox" terminology has died.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I think with your post, the whole "theme park, sandbox" terminology has died.
That may be, but it is what the terms originally were known as. The current terms use don't seem to have any consistent meaning that is of use which is why it has become a subjective term that often confuses people more than provides any understanding.
Theme park early on was to signify the aspect of players being herded through the content (ie you stood in line to go on a ride, then got in line for another ride, etc...) and this form of play existed in the quests as well by having players do quests by level and zone by zone in a linear progression.
Whether you progress via questing or grinding mobs has no bearing - you are still following linear progression of levels/skills/xp/gear or w/e, regardless. The design and intended goal of the game is to get you along the power scale.
That is why games like EQ fit themepark description as well as WoW like games, they are both based on linear progression design = themeparks.
Theme park early on was to signify the aspect of players being herded through the content (ie you stood in line to go on a ride, then got in line for another ride, etc...) and this form of play existed in the quests as well by having players do quests by level and zone by zone in a linear progression.
This is why games like EQ don't fit theme park descriptions. Dungeons and zones had large level ranges with some encompassing the entire spread of levels, quests weren't exactly level progressed, and were not offered in any progressive manner. There was no line to get into with EQ, no directed form of play. You just played, explored, etc... as you saw fit. Not only that, but you weren't penalized or restricted for going outside of your level range in content as is common with theme park MMOs that expect a certain line of progression to follow.
I am not familiar with Skyrim in detail, so I will use an example of an older version such as Morrowind. Games as such are not theme park games either. While there may be a story line that follows a linear resolution, the game play itself is according to the players own choices. They can resolve the world as they see fit, in any manner they see fit. So, I don't see such games either as being theme park such as WoW or similar clones.
Sandbox really depends on what is meant I guess. I am not familiar with the origin of this exactly (its initial intended meaning), so I would assume that it either means a general declaration of play style (ie there is no pre-formed expectations) that you play as you choose, follow your own path or it means the more specific term used today to signify player built worlds.
I think context is important here unless someone can provide an origin meaning (which would be useful to avoid all this confusion). I will say I do remember when theme park as a term came out and it was used to describe WoW as opposed to games like EQ, AC, and UO.
It really just comes down to player-authorship (malleable "sand") vs. dev-authorship (static "rides").
An earlier MMORPG poster cited this Sept 1986 article as one of the earlier uses of the term.
A brief excerpt: "To me a sandbox is more than four boards and a bag of sand. It is a metaphor for play, storytelling, world building, and for a child's personal journey of exploration and discovery. And sand is a metaphor for what good media should be—rich, malleable, and gritty"
Note how the majority of words refer to the player's control over the experience, as that's obviously the core of the metaphor (what else could someone possibly refer to using "sandbox" other than the fact that the experience provides the sand and the player shapes it as they see fit?)
The questionable part of that excerpt being "rich", as sandboxes are typically not considered rich and in fact their do-it-yourself nature makes them a far cheaper experience than themeparks (mirroring the fact that beaches IRL are usually free while themeparks are usually quite expensive.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I would say sandbox is players changing the world and themepark is static developer crafted story. This is going by origin of the word from SWG for themepark.
Themepark is an area of non-changing developer quest hubs to push a story. In SWG it was the area's where you got your Rebel/Empire quest. Outside of this world players built structures and mined.
EQ is/was neither one. It was just an open world. You didn't have developer quest hubs. You just basically were grinding NPC and turning in odd quest.
Some games can be 100% quest hubs or a themepark MMORPG. Some games can have themeparks in them like SWG. Some games like Arche Age start off with themepark and outside area of Sandbox.
Comments
IMHO the term themepark was coined by Blizzard to help differentiate Wow from EQ, to explain how they wanted them to be different. EQ had a heavy focus on advancement, but placing barriers in the way of that advancement that were challenging to overcome. Blizzard was trying to explain how they were more focused on making things fun rather than accomplishing goals. In some sense, I think only Blizzard really knows what a themepark MMO is or how to make one. The reason there are so many themepark MMOs is not because everyone thought a themepark MMO was such a great idea, but because everyone was chasing Wow because it was massively successful and that's how they described their MMO.
For me, one of the biggest issues I have with modern themeparks is the lack of choice.
When leveling, your ONLY choice seems to be to grind quests: you don't get enough xp to just grind mobs, there are no other ways to level so your stuck. This reduces replayability as well as turns away players who dont like what they are forced to do.
I've only played 1 sandbox game, SWG Pre-cu, and it was not user friendly at all, however, you had tons of choice! After I had the basics sorted, I could go to almost any planet I wanted and be able to find creatures I could kill to level up. I could do this solo, in a group, buffed or unbuffed, I could grab quests to help, or just go off exploring. Sometimes I'd go to planet with the goal of visiting every point of interest whilst killing everything I find in between.
Sure, SWG had tons and tons of problems, but whenever I logged in I felt like I was presented with a ton of options for how I wanted to spend my evening, whether I was at endgame or leveling.
When I compare that experience to playing through SW:TOR, I felt like I had no choice whatsoever. I could grind quests along a linear path, or pvp in the same 4 warzones. At endgame, I could do the raids once a week, or pvp in the same 4 warzones. I constantly felt restricted by the systems in the game, constantly repeating myself until I was so bored I logged off and eventually quit.
I don't really care whether an MMO is labelled a themepark or a sandbox. If I'm going to "live" in a virtual environment, then it needs to cater for all my moods. From that point of view, I definitely think sandbox is the way to go just because I don't think its possible for a developer to generate enough content to constantly satiate my moods and gaming pace, so I'd rather the designers came up with some awesome systems so I can entertain myself, rather than relying on overworked, underpaid devs.
Ultimately, the "best" MMO is going to incorporate all the best features from both philosophies of design because both philosophies have a lot to offer.
It is far from all themeparks that have that problem. Gw2 is one example, you can level up with hearts (kinda quests), by crafting, exploring (I don't think you could get to 80 by just exploring but you could get halfway or so), doing DEs, randomly slaughtering mobs and bosses, PvP (mass or in smaller numbers), minigames, personal story and dungeons (but the last one can only be used from lvl 35).
It is true that certain games more or less forces you to play in a very specific way but it is not really because they are themeparks, some games just are made that way (and the same things goes for sologames, just compare a Dragon age game with a Fallout game). Themeparks means that the content in a game is made by the devs (and that most of it is scripted), not that you are forced to do quests. There have been themeparks without quests at all, Lineage didn't have quests, at least not when I played it way back.
Both Themepark and Sandbox have aimed markets and its communities, by me themepark is more new player friendly and casual, while sandbox offers hard-core gameplay and can possibly be even more time consuming than themepark with exclusion of but not necessarily "grind".Hybrids exist as well, but i dont believe in them.
My choice is sandbox all the way, but i simply cant find myself in any titles nowadays, it seems as if most of the good ones are paid ,and free to play ones lack a big part of either modern graphics, or creative gameplay.Loved Archeage, but got dissapointed in Trion, over and over again.Waiting for Star Citizen and torturing myself in Archeage atm.
This shows example of some mmorpg choices in a good maner:
Also the ability to create content from scratch is incredible, but it might be two sided blade how it impacts economy and balance since borders of what you can create ingame get more risky with every step of freedom.
PFO: dead
EQN: MIA but will probably emerge as a monstrous amalgam of anything but sandbox elements
REPOP: seems to have tried to split the baby and has tech issues
etc.
It may be that the lateral path of gaming choice cannot be reborn, given the fratricide that Theme Park games commit on their more open world/freedom of choice brethren. Add to this the inept saviors that have emerged to either fail under their own inability or who chose to prey upon the wounded with snake oil wagons online, and there seems to be no one capable of delivering a home for the sandbox gamer who isn't a part of the PvP cannibal population.
There is no true sandbox game, as there is no true theme-park style of game. Naming which is which, is not hard. Some games may have certain mechanics that are more open and sandbox'y, while the same game may have a theme elements too.
It really comes down to the underlying game mechanics the game is based on. Break those down and see if they allow the CHARACTER free movement and freedom of expression. Deepness and enriched Characters.
Or is it literally a "canned" parkway, that the story teller/developer is leading you threw, from one spot to the next, designed for your level, or this spot now, that other spot later after your 40. Guiding each person before and after you. All having the same experiences.
Does the world wait for them & their Character (as if it is cued up), or do they have to catch it in passing?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
u can become king's guard, fight your way to be the king royal guard or be the bandits and climb your way to be the bandit king.
Behold, the world has story progression, as u living your normal life, the evil is attacking the world, how long can they hold to wait for you? who gonna save the women at the woods if you just being the chef at the restaurant? what will happen to the princess while u busy crafting your goods? you are the one, the messiah of the world to bring peace or utter chaos if choose to side with the evil. the choice is yours, to save them or not, u need to choose because u cant save everyone..or u might can... make your choice, choose your destiny.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
This is why games like EQ don't fit theme park descriptions. Dungeons and zones had large level ranges with some encompassing the entire spread of levels, quests weren't exactly level progressed, and were not offered in any progressive manner. There was no line to get into with EQ, no directed form of play. You just played, explored, etc... as you saw fit. Not only that, but you weren't penalized or restricted for going outside of your level range in content as is common with theme park MMOs that expect a certain line of progression to follow.
I am not familiar with Skyrim in detail, so I will use an example of an older version such as Morrowind. Games as such are not theme park games either. While there may be a story line that follows a linear resolution, the game play itself is according to the players own choices. They can resolve the world as they see fit, in any manner they see fit. So, I don't see such games either as being theme park such as WoW or similar clones.
Sandbox really depends on what is meant I guess. I am not familiar with the origin of this exactly (its initial intended meaning), so I would assume that it either means a general declaration of play style (ie there is no pre-formed expectations) that you play as you choose, follow your own path or it means the more specific term used today to signify player built worlds.
I think context is important here unless someone can provide an origin meaning (which would be useful to avoid all this confusion). I will say I do remember when theme park as a term came out and it was used to describe WoW as opposed to games like EQ, AC, and UO.
Themepark and sandbox are just descriptive words to describe - roughly - what the genre is, it's definitely not the defining label.
Themepark games are usually those based around linear progression. IE. bracketed skills, zones, quests, events, bosses, and so forth. This has a strong resemblance to what you'd call "hand-holding".
Sandbox gives you the freedom of choice with your progression, there's no bracketing of features within the game, everything is accessible (to a degree) as soon as you start. This is the resemblance of creativity and the impression of freedom of life.
Now, there's no arguing which of the two descriptions is more sound in complexity, however, entertainment begs to differ.
I think with your post, the whole "theme park, sandbox" terminology has died.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
That is why games like EQ fit themepark description as well as WoW like games, they are both based on linear progression design = themeparks.
An earlier MMORPG poster cited this Sept 1986 article as one of the earlier uses of the term.
A brief excerpt: "To me a sandbox is more than four boards and a bag of sand. It is a metaphor for play, storytelling, world building, and for a child's personal journey of exploration and discovery. And sand is a metaphor for what good media should be—rich, malleable, and gritty"
Note how the majority of words refer to the player's control over the experience, as that's obviously the core of the metaphor (what else could someone possibly refer to using "sandbox" other than the fact that the experience provides the sand and the player shapes it as they see fit?)
The questionable part of that excerpt being "rich", as sandboxes are typically not considered rich and in fact their do-it-yourself nature makes them a far cheaper experience than themeparks (mirroring the fact that beaches IRL are usually free while themeparks are usually quite expensive.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Themepark is an area of non-changing developer quest hubs to push a story. In SWG it was the area's where you got your Rebel/Empire quest. Outside of this world players built structures and mined.
EQ is/was neither one. It was just an open world. You didn't have developer quest hubs. You just basically were grinding NPC and turning in odd quest.
Some games can be 100% quest hubs or a themepark MMORPG. Some games can have themeparks in them like SWG. Some games like Arche Age start off with themepark and outside area of Sandbox.