Combat was supposed to be heroic and from what we saw it's the exact same thing as in WoW. Boss kiting... heroic?
Quests: going into a sith temple to kill worms... heroic?
Crafting: selecting a companion - click to have him/her do something - get results... heroic?
Space sim: Point and clicking in 2D on space ships not even trying to stay in your six, heroic?
Having the exact same ship (mobile home) as any other [insert class name]... makes you fuzzy?
Look & gear: grinding gear to look like any other maxed out character, so unique feeling!
Companions: wandering around with the same disguised companion(s) as anyone else.. heroic?
Being "obliged" to use companions to solo... heroicness ftw!
I've already mentioined the Heroic thing in another post.
First of all I'm sure there are a lot of people who will think it "heroic" and plainly that bit of marketing buzz was not aimed at hardcore, judgemental gamers. Besides, in labeling somethign "heroic" one size does not fit all.
Secondly, why can't going into a sith temple to kill evil worms not be heroic? It's more heroic than sitting outside and bitching about it.
Third, this crafting system, to me is heroic. I no longer have to gather bits and bits and bits, let my companion do it. 5 thumbs up.
Fourth, Well, since some people are bitching and moaning about how long this game is taking to come to market (which really isnt' that long) I wonder how much longer it would take to tack on, essentially, EVE? Let's be real please.
Fifth, I don't like the looks of the ships anyways so that's all I have to say about that
Sixth, I would much prefer to look like my own person but it's not a game breaker.
Seven, yeah that's just silly
Eight, so dont' use your companions to solo, mission accomplished.
Everything you have listed will be a non-issue to someone else. Are you aware that there are people who don't even care about what their character's face looks like? Yup, sure thing. I dont' think having the same looking gear will affect them one bit.
So in the end "no" it won't be an epic fail except to the players who have their perfect star wars game floating around in their minds and who are railing that they are not getting what they want.
And you know what? they are free to do something else with their time.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Tor will make its money back and in a year have half of its players. It will get worse from there. It will be called a bust because it doesnt become the next Wow.
Tor will make its money back and in a year have half of its players. It will get worse from there. It will be called a bust because it doesnt become the next Wow.
First off, I HATE these doom and gloom threads. I will get into that more in a moment.
In response to this, I would be willing to bet your estimate turns out wrong. There are LOTS of Star Wars fans and MOST of the people playing this will not be the proverbial HARD CORE MMO players (AKA: Burned out doom and gloom nay sayers of every MMO out there). It will be a much more casual audience at its core while still appealing in many ways to more astute MMO players. SW:TOR has over 200 HOURS of gameplay PER CHARACTER CLASS not including PVP, and all the other Raid, group type stuff. Alderan alone is equal to 8 WOW regions in size and is one of 17 planets.
I sincerely think you are underesmating the size and scope and target audience. I bet it flourishes. Whether it actaully raises to meet WOW level subs is another story but SW:TOR is likely to be very successful.
Now on to my general hate of these threads.
We MMO elitists or whatever should be thrilled to see a game like this coming. It has a massive investment and is doing things I have longed for in my MMOs. The thought of an MMO that playes like ME2, Dragon Age, and WOW in the STAR WARS universe with the largest budget and effort ever put forward is something we should be cheering and backing 100%. Just because it is using some standards (Like RIFT has) does not make it a clone or a bad game except for the HARD CORE MMO players noted by the AKA above.
If it actually fails it will be the end of MMOs and companies will stop producing them because if this fails I doubt much of anything will succeed after.
When the game comes out, if you don't like it so be it but at least give it a chance to come out before damning it to the pits of MMO hell. BTW: They describe Heroic combat as one against many in mob type situations and I have seen plenty of that in the videos.
Tor will make its money back and in a year have half of its players. It will get worse from there. It will be called a bust because it doesnt become the next Wow.
First off, I HATE these doom and gloom threads. I will get into that more in a moment.
In response to this, I would be willing to bet your estimate turns out wrong. There are LOTS of Star Wars fans and MOST of the people playing this will not be the proverbial HARD CORE MMO players (AKA: Burned out doom and gloom nay sayers of every MMO out there). It will be a much more casual audience at its core while still appealing in many ways to more astute MMO players. SW:TOR has over 200 HOURS of gameplay PER CHARACTER CLASS not including PVP, and all the other Raid, group type stuff. Alderan alone is equal to 8 WOW regions in size and is one of 17 planets.
I sincerely think you are underesmating the size and scope and target audience. I bet it flourishes. Whether it actaully raises to meet WOW level subs is another story but SW:TOR is likely to be very successful.
Now on to my general hate of these threads.
We MMO elitists or whatever should be thrilled to see a game like this coming. It has a massive investment and is doing things I have longed for in my MMOs. The thought of an MMO that playes like ME2, Dragon Age, and WOW in the STAR WARS universe with the largest budget and effort ever put forward is something we should be cheering and backing 100%. Just because it is using some standards (Like RIFT has) does not make it a clone or a bad game except for the HARD CORE MMO players noted by the AKA above.
If it actually fails it will be the end of MMOs and companies will stop producing them because if this fails I doubt much of anything will succeed after.
When the game comes out, if you don't like it so be it but at least give it a chance to come out before damning it to the pits of MMO hell. BTW: They describe Heroic combat as one against many in mob type situations and I have seen plenty of that in the videos.
MMO's like ArcheAge, GW2, EQ3 and WoD will succeed and are the true future of MMO's!
Not shit like ToR! If ToR had come out 5yrs ago then ya it would be accepted.
edit: ya large static zones to run around in... that does not impress me, why do think running around in a static zone thats huge should make us be in awe ? This game has shown nothing that gives the feel of an online world to play in!
All I have seen and gotten the feel so far for it is that it feels like a huge KOTOR 3 and the game play and endgame itself are 5yrs ago!
edit #2:
The hour or so videos I've seen of ArcheAge and the stuff ArcheAge has in it has done more to impress me and looks like a true online world to play in.
edit #3:
I would rather have an mmo that plays like SystemShock 1 and 2, Daggerfall and Baldur's Gate/Planescape Torment and Fallout 1 & 2
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE Waiting on: Lost Ark Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
Tor will make its money back and in a year have half of its players. It will get worse from there. It will be called a bust because it doesnt become the next Wow.
First off, I HATE these doom and gloom threads. I will get into that more in a moment.
In response to this, I would be willing to bet your estimate turns out wrong. There are LOTS of Star Wars fans and MOST of the people playing this will not be the proverbial HARD CORE MMO players (AKA: Burned out doom and gloom nay sayers of every MMO out there). It will be a much more casual audience at its core while still appealing in many ways to more astute MMO players. SW:TOR has over 200 HOURS of gameplay PER CHARACTER CLASS not including PVP, and all the other Raid, group type stuff. Alderan alone is equal to 8 WOW regions in size and is one of 17 planets.
I sincerely think you are underesmating the size and scope and target audience. I bet it flourishes. Whether it actaully raises to meet WOW level subs is another story but SW:TOR is likely to be very successful.
Now on to my general hate of these threads.
We MMO elitists or whatever should be thrilled to see a game like this coming. It has a massive investment and is doing things I have longed for in my MMOs. The thought of an MMO that playes like ME2, Dragon Age, and WOW in the STAR WARS universe with the largest budget and effort ever put forward is something we should be cheering and backing 100%. Just because it is using some standards (Like RIFT has) does not make it a clone or a bad game except for the HARD CORE MMO players noted by the AKA above.
If it actually fails it will be the end of MMOs and companies will stop producing them because if this fails I doubt much of anything will succeed after.
When the game comes out, if you don't like it so be it but at least give it a chance to come out before damning it to the pits of MMO hell. BTW: They describe Heroic combat as one against many in mob type situations and I have seen plenty of that in the videos.
MMO's like ArcheAge, GW2, EQ3 and WoD will succeed and are the true future of MMO's!
Not shit like ToR! If ToR had come out 5yrs ago then ya it would be accepted.
edit: ya large static zones to run around in... that does not impress me, why do think running around in a static zone thats huge should make us be in awe ? This game has shown nothing that gives the feel of an online world to play in!
All I have seen and gotten the feel so far for it is that it feels like a huge KOTOR 3 and the game play and endgame itself are 5yrs ago!
edit #2:
The hour or so videos I've seen of ArcheAge and the stuff ArcheAge has in it has done more to impress me and looks like a true online world to play in.
edit #3:
I would rather have an mmo that plays like SystemShock 1 and 2, Daggerfall and Baldur's Gate/Planescape Torment and Fallout 1 & 2
Seriously....You know with all certainty that the games you mention above like EQ3 and WOD which are not even remotely close to being out yet will DEFINATIVELY succeed while TOR will CERTAINLY fail. You have played TOR enough to know that the worlds are totally static right? With the exception of edit 3 everything you stated is pure conjecture and personal opinion. I do not think your personal opinion dictates what will succeed or fail.
I think it would be very cool to have am MMO that is similar to SustemShock or Daggerfall and especially Fallout but I (and apparently LOTS of others) think a story driven MMO that is like a Bioware RPG is equally as cool as those.
Anyway, I don't want to argue about your personal views being absolute fact of success of failure. I think there is a not so vocal majority that will be the determining factor. Keep in mind that ME 1 & 2, Dragon Age :Origins, and the makers of the best star wars RPG of all time were massive successes and people are going to probably enjoy this for the stories, etc as much as those.
I personally think ArchAge will do well enough but will probably fall in the niche catagory. GW2 has a good chance of success by all estimations but will probably not be as big as TOR overall. There is not enough information on WOD or EQ3 (I don't think that is actually the name though) to even come close to estimating the success. If you compare an new EQ to the launch of EQ 2 it might be doubtful that it would be a huge success.
Most to all people have not played any games that are not out yet.
So if the game is not out. How can you say the game is a fail?
People say that Star Trek, Warhammer, Age of conan,SWG to name a few are all failers but i can still play them and there are a bunch of people playing there games.
I dont know about out you but to me when a game fails it is turned off.
Tabla Rosa was a failer
Hellgate was failer
APB was a failer
Earth & Beyond was a failer
If the game has players and the servers are up then to me that is not a failed game.
Also I have never heard of a game that is a fail befor it comes out. Once it is out for the public to play and nobody plays it then I would concider it a fail.
So, yeah, it may well fail at evoking this sense of 'heroism', but if it does then their overuse of the marketing buzz word will make them a laughing stock.
It looking pedestrian, ininspired, derivative, and... a bit boring are 'unrealistic reasons' for thinking it will 'fail' maybe to inspire the 'heroic' experience it is being hyped on?
I don't think so.
1. How something looks isnt a 100% equal how something plays. This works both ways.
2. Things might look pedestrian or boring to you, to someone else who saw other video footage, it might look interesting, even 'epic' or 'spectacular' or 'heroic'. It's all subjective.
3. The way how the word 'heroic' is being pulled out of context and overexaggerated here, is way out of proportion and only to ridicule the design choice the designers chose. In the same way the devs could have said 'we want the gameplay experience to feel special' or 'memorable', which sounds nothing wrong with, and the OP and others could have ridiculed those terms, like 'does... this and this feel special, or does this and that feel memorable?'
Bottomline being, someone doesn't like the design choices the devs made so that person starts ridiculing dev comments they made.
4. My 'unrealistic reason' referred to your comment above, about how if people don't feel heroic then BW would become a laughing stock because of that. Haters will ridicule no matter what, players won't care unless they don't enjoy the game, not because they don't feel 'heroic'.
Look... once and for all;
I honestly do not care if it flies or falls as a game, really I don't. I am just calling it as I am seeing it. Please do not try to dismiss my opinion by attaching your own biased meanings to it. You do it all the time and it gets irritating.
That's understandable, because I feel the same, the nonsensical, heavily biased arguments that persistent bashers and haters sometimes come up with are certainly annoying, if I projected that unjustly and too much on you thinking 'another one of those', then my apologies.
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt
MMO's like ArcheAge, GW2, EQ3 and WoD will succeed and are the true future of MMO's!
Not shit like ToR! If ToR had come out 5yrs ago then ya it would be accepted.
edit #2:
The hour or so videos I've seen of ArcheAge and the stuff ArcheAge has in it has done more to impress me and looks like a true online world to play in.
Hmm. This sounds like fanboism to me, granted, for another MMO than SWTOR but still fanboism, or call it heavily colored favoritism if you like.
I mean, you know nothing about EQ3 and WoD yet you are so certain that they will succeed?? Sure, mate
Btw, if you don't like themepark MMO's like SWTOR will be, that doesn't make those MMO's singleplayer games a la KOTOR. But, you're entitled to your opinion, I guess you're someone who claims adamantly that MMO's like WoW, LotrO and Rift are singleplayer games too just because they have quest based leveling.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
TOR will fail cause of greed it started as a F2p with micropayments now they think they better sell it with montly fees.At the end they will go broke and it will be bought to someone who operates micro payments. Latest examples are Age of Conan and Fallen Earth !
I agree if it's just splitting every creatures (from other MMOs) down to 1/3 their abilities (1/3 health 1/3 defense 1/3 atk power) that it wouldn't be any harder to kill them then they would be in any other game.
The thing that might be different in this game is what those 1/3 might be.
In an normal MMO you got a rat hes a level 10 warrior type (bashes you, bites at you, doesn't use spells)
Now you know what to expect from that rat. So as long as you stay ahead of his hp and don't get stunned by his bashes your okay. Theres no way for him to reheal by spell or other unnatural ways.
Now if we take that same rat and split him into 3 parts, make one a warrior rat, a priest rat and a wizard rat (all 1/3 their natural stat minus level, of the warrior rat)
Now you have one blasting at you for large damage, one is healing the warrior rat and the warrior rat is bashing you causing you to be stunned. Done wrong or getting unlucky you could be almost done killing one of the rats, get stunned by the warrior, blasted hard by the wizard and the healer one just rehealed the damage you did to the one your attacking.
By splitting the encounter your very possibly not fighting 3 warriors but a mini group. That in itself could make things a lot harder then just fighting one rat. Not to mention if they manage to get that AI of theirs working again (as it wasn't in the tatoonie video i heard) then you got 3-5 enemies moving around and ducking behind cover. To me it's much harder watching 3-5 guys then just the one.
Thats of course assuming what i'm speculating is the norm for the fight. But without playing it i don't know for certain, even so the possibility is there to make it a lot harder.
Agree completely, but you might want to know that the AI in the Tatooine Vid was intentionally turned down so that the walkthrough could be done easier. It's kind of hard to show all the features if you are fighting every 30 seconds. They did say it in the video too. In the latter half if I remember right. The aggro ranges were also turned way down for the same reason.
They DID make a BIG mistake by not telling people that VERY clearly in the very beginning of the video.
GMan3 is right.
Now I would really be interested in seeing real AI and I hope it will be good. So far all I saw is either dumb AI or way too low opponent power. Pretty sure it will be different at launch however it leaves me wondering. Hopefully the combat will be better than in Kotor / ME / DA.
Another point, I do expect war zones to accept more than 8 vs 8 players. Playing larger arenas is much welcome, still I'm looking forward battles not skirmishes.
It's EA. If there is one thing that EA is not, it's stupid. They aren't going to pump in all this money into a project they even -think- isn't going to give them a decent return on their investment.
I agree if it's just splitting every creatures (from other MMOs) down to 1/3 their abilities (1/3 health 1/3 defense 1/3 atk power) that it wouldn't be any harder to kill them then they would be in any other game.
The thing that might be different in this game is what those 1/3 might be.
In an normal MMO you got a rat hes a level 10 warrior type (bashes you, bites at you, doesn't use spells)
Now you know what to expect from that rat. So as long as you stay ahead of his hp and don't get stunned by his bashes your okay. Theres no way for him to reheal by spell or other unnatural ways.
Now if we take that same rat and split him into 3 parts, make one a warrior rat, a priest rat and a wizard rat (all 1/3 their natural stat minus level, of the warrior rat)
Now you have one blasting at you for large damage, one is healing the warrior rat and the warrior rat is bashing you causing you to be stunned. Done wrong or getting unlucky you could be almost done killing one of the rats, get stunned by the warrior, blasted hard by the wizard and the healer one just rehealed the damage you did to the one your attacking.
By splitting the encounter your very possibly not fighting 3 warriors but a mini group. That in itself could make things a lot harder then just fighting one rat. Not to mention if they manage to get that AI of theirs working again (as it wasn't in the tatoonie video i heard) then you got 3-5 enemies moving around and ducking behind cover. To me it's much harder watching 3-5 guys then just the one.
Thats of course assuming what i'm speculating is the norm for the fight. But without playing it i don't know for certain, even so the possibility is there to make it a lot harder.
Agree completely, but you might want to know that the AI in the Tatooine Vid was intentionally turned down so that the walkthrough could be done easier. It's kind of hard to show all the features if you are fighting every 30 seconds. They did say it in the video too. In the latter half if I remember right. The aggro ranges were also turned way down for the same reason.
They DID make a BIG mistake by not telling people that VERY clearly in the very beginning of the video.
GMan3 is right.
Now I would really be interested in seeing real AI and I hope it will be good. So far all I saw is either dumb AI or way too low opponent power. Pretty sure it will be different at launch however it leaves me wondering. Hopefully the combat will be better than in Kotor / ME / DA.
Another point, I do expect war zones to accept more than 8 vs 8 players. Playing larger arenas is much welcome, still I'm looking forward battles not skirmishes.
Deewe, I have seen a couple videos from earlier builds that showed off anywhere's from 15 to 120 minutes of gameplay and the AI was ok in the earliest and got better over the next couple of builds. As it should, aggro ranges varied with the more "range centric" enemies having a very large range indeed. I tried to provide a link to prove my statements, but they have already been taken down. If I find another though, I will post it. If the AI does continue to improve at the rate it has been though, I will be VERY happy. Heck, if all I get is the last one I saw, then I will still be happy. The enemies were actually using cover and chasing people down who were hiding behind cover.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
TOR will fail cause of greed it started as a F2p with micropayments now they think they better sell it with montly fees.At the end they will go broke and it will be bought to someone who operates micro payments. Latest examples are Age of Conan and Fallen Earth !
SWTOR was never going to use a micropayment model. AoC will be using a 'freemium' model with minor item shop features, but that won't be the focus of the game. (Have you even played it? Guessing not since you seem to believe it does something that it doesn't do).
Also, last time I checked, Fallen Earth had very few players. Not that that's a bad thing as far as gameplay goes or anything, but it's not very strong evidence of your success claim.
Currently Watching: TSW. << Very Eager for a Beta invite. Have experience with Beta Testing. Not personally a big fan of raiding or current pve endgame mmo philosophy. Nothing wrong with it, I just sort of burnt out on it. Hardcore raider in wow from Launch to.. about 7 months ago. Currently Playing: Champions Online.
People want games to fail badly so that only the games and MMO's of the kind they like are successful.
Well then I don't think it is the game that fail badly, I think the playerbase as a whole failed miserably
People want the game to fail so they can just say that "mainstream is bad", "like what I like", "oh I was right too!", and so they feel justified in liking their niche game with less then 10,000 players.
I personally won't end up play TSW (unless something changes), ArcheAge, among others. That sure doesn't mean I am going to make posts about how badly I hope they fail the niche player base. If those 5,000 (let's say) people enjoy the game, more power to them.
I just think better tinfoil hats would help people.
What? Are you implying that your tinfoil hat is better than mine?
Comments
The terms "heroic" and "epic" are used very loosely by MMORPG genre of games. Take them seriously at your own peril.
I've already mentioined the Heroic thing in another post.
First of all I'm sure there are a lot of people who will think it "heroic" and plainly that bit of marketing buzz was not aimed at hardcore, judgemental gamers. Besides, in labeling somethign "heroic" one size does not fit all.
Secondly, why can't going into a sith temple to kill evil worms not be heroic? It's more heroic than sitting outside and bitching about it.
Third, this crafting system, to me is heroic. I no longer have to gather bits and bits and bits, let my companion do it. 5 thumbs up.
Fourth, Well, since some people are bitching and moaning about how long this game is taking to come to market (which really isnt' that long) I wonder how much longer it would take to tack on, essentially, EVE? Let's be real please.
Fifth, I don't like the looks of the ships anyways so that's all I have to say about that
Sixth, I would much prefer to look like my own person but it's not a game breaker.
Seven, yeah that's just silly
Eight, so dont' use your companions to solo, mission accomplished.
Everything you have listed will be a non-issue to someone else. Are you aware that there are people who don't even care about what their character's face looks like? Yup, sure thing. I dont' think having the same looking gear will affect them one bit.
So in the end "no" it won't be an epic fail except to the players who have their perfect star wars game floating around in their minds and who are railing that they are not getting what they want.
And you know what? they are free to do something else with their time.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Tor will make its money back and in a year have half of its players. It will get worse from there. It will be called a bust because it doesnt become the next Wow.
I don't think ToR will be a success.
It's a shame the Starwars IP got wasted like this... nothing ToR has shown in the {mod edit} E3 videos has impressed me.
Bioware are betting that people will buy into it and forgive them and play just because it's Starwars I guess.
But take away the lightsabers and lasers and this game stinks!
They have set themselves up to fail endgame and long term and have in essence released only a KOTOR 3 type game with multiplayer tacked on.
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD
Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE
Waiting on: Lost Ark
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
First off, I HATE these doom and gloom threads. I will get into that more in a moment.
In response to this, I would be willing to bet your estimate turns out wrong. There are LOTS of Star Wars fans and MOST of the people playing this will not be the proverbial HARD CORE MMO players (AKA: Burned out doom and gloom nay sayers of every MMO out there). It will be a much more casual audience at its core while still appealing in many ways to more astute MMO players. SW:TOR has over 200 HOURS of gameplay PER CHARACTER CLASS not including PVP, and all the other Raid, group type stuff. Alderan alone is equal to 8 WOW regions in size and is one of 17 planets.
I sincerely think you are underesmating the size and scope and target audience. I bet it flourishes. Whether it actaully raises to meet WOW level subs is another story but SW:TOR is likely to be very successful.
Now on to my general hate of these threads.
We MMO elitists or whatever should be thrilled to see a game like this coming. It has a massive investment and is doing things I have longed for in my MMOs. The thought of an MMO that playes like ME2, Dragon Age, and WOW in the STAR WARS universe with the largest budget and effort ever put forward is something we should be cheering and backing 100%. Just because it is using some standards (Like RIFT has) does not make it a clone or a bad game except for the HARD CORE MMO players noted by the AKA above.
If it actually fails it will be the end of MMOs and companies will stop producing them because if this fails I doubt much of anything will succeed after.
When the game comes out, if you don't like it so be it but at least give it a chance to come out before damning it to the pits of MMO hell. BTW: They describe Heroic combat as one against many in mob type situations and I have seen plenty of that in the videos.
MMO's like ArcheAge, GW2, EQ3 and WoD will succeed and are the true future of MMO's!
Not shit like ToR! If ToR had come out 5yrs ago then ya it would be accepted.
edit: ya large static zones to run around in... that does not impress me, why do think running around in a static zone thats huge should make us be in awe ? This game has shown nothing that gives the feel of an online world to play in!
All I have seen and gotten the feel so far for it is that it feels like a huge KOTOR 3 and the game play and endgame itself are 5yrs ago!
edit #2:
The hour or so videos I've seen of ArcheAge and the stuff ArcheAge has in it has done more to impress me and looks like a true online world to play in.
edit #3:
I would rather have an mmo that plays like SystemShock 1 and 2, Daggerfall and Baldur's Gate/Planescape Torment and Fallout 1 & 2
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD
Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE
Waiting on: Lost Ark
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
Seriously....You know with all certainty that the games you mention above like EQ3 and WOD which are not even remotely close to being out yet will DEFINATIVELY succeed while TOR will CERTAINLY fail. You have played TOR enough to know that the worlds are totally static right? With the exception of edit 3 everything you stated is pure conjecture and personal opinion. I do not think your personal opinion dictates what will succeed or fail.
I think it would be very cool to have am MMO that is similar to SustemShock or Daggerfall and especially Fallout but I (and apparently LOTS of others) think a story driven MMO that is like a Bioware RPG is equally as cool as those.
Anyway, I don't want to argue about your personal views being absolute fact of success of failure. I think there is a not so vocal majority that will be the determining factor. Keep in mind that ME 1 & 2, Dragon Age :Origins, and the makers of the best star wars RPG of all time were massive successes and people are going to probably enjoy this for the stories, etc as much as those.
I personally think ArchAge will do well enough but will probably fall in the niche catagory. GW2 has a good chance of success by all estimations but will probably not be as big as TOR overall. There is not enough information on WOD or EQ3 (I don't think that is actually the name though) to even come close to estimating the success. If you compare an new EQ to the launch of EQ 2 it might be doubtful that it would be a huge success.
This is a dumb topic!!!!!!!
The game is not out.
Most to all people have not played any games that are not out yet.
So if the game is not out. How can you say the game is a fail?
People say that Star Trek, Warhammer, Age of conan,SWG to name a few are all failers but i can still play them and there are a bunch of people playing there games.
I dont know about out you but to me when a game fails it is turned off.
Tabla Rosa was a failer
Hellgate was failer
APB was a failer
Earth & Beyond was a failer
If the game has players and the servers are up then to me that is not a failed game.
Also I have never heard of a game that is a fail befor it comes out. Once it is out for the public to play and nobody plays it then I would concider it a fail.
That's understandable, because I feel the same, the nonsensical, heavily biased arguments that persistent bashers and haters sometimes come up with are certainly annoying, if I projected that unjustly and too much on you thinking 'another one of those', then my apologies.
Hmm. This sounds like fanboism to me, granted, for another MMO than SWTOR but still fanboism, or call it heavily colored favoritism if you like.
I mean, you know nothing about EQ3 and WoD yet you are so certain that they will succeed?? Sure, mate
Btw, if you don't like themepark MMO's like SWTOR will be, that doesn't make those MMO's singleplayer games a la KOTOR. But, you're entitled to your opinion, I guess you're someone who claims adamantly that MMO's like WoW, LotrO and Rift are singleplayer games too just because they have quest based leveling.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I can see that. They said before they need 500,000 subs so that is a big question. Before wow, holding 30% subs was good.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
It won't fail and it won't be a smashing hit either, It will just fade away slowly like the rest of the clone games.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
TOR will fail cause of greed it started as a F2p with micropayments now they think they better sell it with montly fees.At the end they will go broke and it will be bought to someone who operates micro payments. Latest examples are Age of Conan and Fallen Earth !
GMan3 is right.
Now I would really be interested in seeing real AI and I hope it will be good. So far all I saw is either dumb AI or way too low opponent power. Pretty sure it will be different at launch however it leaves me wondering. Hopefully the combat will be better than in Kotor / ME / DA.
Another point, I do expect war zones to accept more than 8 vs 8 players. Playing larger arenas is much welcome, still I'm looking forward battles not skirmishes.
The business model set up for this game is so that it wont fail.
It's EA. If there is one thing that EA is not, it's stupid. They aren't going to pump in all this money into a project they even -think- isn't going to give them a decent return on their investment.
No.
They will get the money invested & keep a great numbers of subscriptors.
Deewe, I have seen a couple videos from earlier builds that showed off anywhere's from 15 to 120 minutes of gameplay and the AI was ok in the earliest and got better over the next couple of builds. As it should, aggro ranges varied with the more "range centric" enemies having a very large range indeed. I tried to provide a link to prove my statements, but they have already been taken down. If I find another though, I will post it. If the AI does continue to improve at the rate it has been though, I will be VERY happy. Heck, if all I get is the last one I saw, then I will still be happy. The enemies were actually using cover and chasing people down who were hiding behind cover.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
No.
No.
it will take a lot of players from Rift and WoW
and it will bring some new players to the genre.
"Tanking is like mathematics...healing is like an art" Kimi (ex TOROcast Member)
SWTOR was never going to use a micropayment model. AoC will be using a 'freemium' model with minor item shop features, but that won't be the focus of the game. (Have you even played it? Guessing not since you seem to believe it does something that it doesn't do).
Also, last time I checked, Fallen Earth had very few players. Not that that's a bad thing as far as gameplay goes or anything, but it's not very strong evidence of your success claim.
Currently Watching: TSW. << Very Eager for a Beta invite. Have experience with Beta Testing.
Not personally a big fan of raiding or current pve endgame mmo philosophy. Nothing wrong with it, I just sort of burnt out on it.
Hardcore raider in wow from Launch to.. about 7 months ago.
Currently Playing: Champions Online.
yea, what he said.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Sir, the possibility of The Old Republic failing is approximately 3,720 to 1
What? Are you implying that your tinfoil hat is better than mine?
Nah it won't fail.