@#$% everyone who is guessing on how good or bad the game will be.... I want to hear from an actual tester or player.
I doubt anyone voicing strong opinions haven't even played the game, let me hear from a player.
You'll be waiting for a while. Last I checked, all testers are under NDA so even if someone does say 'SWTOR is ZYX' you have to take it with a grain of salt.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I doubt anyone voicing strong opinions haven't even played the game, let me hear from a player.
Meh, there are whole pages full of handson reports and impressions from people who played the game, for a hour, to several hours to 15-20 hours in a weekend to recently even a month. If you need links to those, just PM me or post it here.
So far, the vast majority was generally positive or enthusiastic about their gameplay experiences.
Originally posted by Phry
i dont think the game will fail.. but.. i dont really see it as being all that popular.. or even having much in terms of longevity.. Despite all the discussions about the direction of the game, and whether it will be a true MMO or not.. its still largely seen as being a single player RPG with the option of multiplayer content.. at least that appears to be how the majority of players will treat it.. i think the crunch time for SW:TOR will be launch + 3 months.. if the game is to be deemed a success or failure.. it will be at this point. for me the game has definitely failed to impress.. so im not really all that optimistic.
SWTOR is an MMORPG. Everyone who at this stage is still thinking it'll be a singleplayer RPG with some multiplayer features is either being stupid/ignorant or hating on SWTOR, but it's not somebody who has deep experience with MMORPG's, at least not the themepark kind which happen to make up more than 80% of the MMO market.
For the rest, it remains to be seen: MMORPG's haven't been doing that well the last few years when it comes to growth or even player retention. SWTOR has the advantage of offering a world that's larger than all other themepark MMO's (easily 8-10 times Rift), an amount of content that dwarfs that of most other themepark MMO's and a more interesting leveling and alt leveling experience than other themepark MMO's, but will that be enough for player retention past the first 6 months? We'll see.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I doubt anyone voicing strong opinions haven't even played the game, let me hear from a player.
Meh, there are whole pages full of handson reports and impressions from people who played the game, for a hour, to several hours to 15-20 hours in a weekend to recently even a month. If you need links to those, just PM me or post it here.
So far, the vast majority was generally positive or enthusiastic about their gameplay experience.
Originally posted by Phry
i dont think the game will fail.. but.. i dont really see it as being all that popular.. or even having much in terms of longevity.. Despite all the discussions about the direction of the game, and whether it will be a true MMO or not.. its still largely seen as being a single player RPG with the option of multiplayer content.. at least that appears to be how the majority of players will treat it.. i think the crunch time for SW:TOR will be launch + 3 months.. if the game is to be deemed a success or failure.. it will be at this point. for me the game has definitely failed to impress.. so im not really all that optimistic.
SWTOR is an MMORPG. Everyone who at this stage is still thinking it'll be a singleplayer RPG with some multiplayer RPG is either being stupid/ignorant or hating on SWTOR, but it's not somebody who has deep experience with MMORPG's, at least not the themepark kind which happen to make up more than 80% of the MMO market.
For the rest, it remains to be seen: MMORPG's haven't been doing that well the last few years when it comes to growth or even player retention. SWTOR has the advantage of offering a world that's larger than all other themepark MMO's (easily 8-10 times Rift), an amount of content that dwarfs that of most other themepark MMO's and a more interesting leveling and alt leveling experience than other themepark MMO's, but will that be enough for player retention past the first 6 months? We'll see.
i do think that SW:TOR is an MMO.. what i am saying is that the majority of players will mostly likely treat it as if its a single player RPG with MO options.. they will play it the exact same way that they play other Bioware games.. its something you see in WoW a lot.. players seem to go through the game treating it as if its a single player game, and they only really join in with others to do group content - dungeons etc.. with companions in SW:TOR.. Bioware seem to be taking this to the next level.. where joining with others will become almost entirely optional - worse, if the player prefers to have the companion in the group over a real player.. and with group sizes being what they are.. i can easily see this being a game where players will form 2 player 2 npc groups.. which will essentially be a single player game with .. optional multiplayer.. never mind that it is an MMO.. i see that as how people will treat the game.
Originally posted by Phry i do think that SW:TOR is an MMO.. what i am saying is that the majority of players will mostly likely treat it as if its a single player RPG with MO options.. they will play it the exact same way that they play other Bioware games.. its something you see in WoW a lot.. players seem to go through the game treating it as if its a single player game, and they only really join in with others to do group content - dungeons etc.. with companions in SW:TOR.. Bioware seem to be taking this to the next level.. where joining with others will become almost entirely optional - worse, if the player prefers to have the companion in the group over a real player.. and with group sizes being what they are.. i can easily see this being a game where players will form 2 player 2 npc groups.. which will essentially be a single player game with .. optional multiplayer.. never mind that it is an MMO.. i see that as how people will treat the game.
So because a player chooses to team up with only one other player. That makes it a bad thing?
Would you rather the two players be forced to spend all day searching for a full four man group instead?
What is your magic number that turns a game suddenly into multiplayer? Because last I checked. Multiplayer was two players and up.
Also really don't know why people are complaining about the flashpoints when there are operations (raids) suited to your mass-multiplayer needs.
i do think that SW:TOR is an MMO.. what i am saying is that the majority of players will mostly likely treat it as if its a single player RPG with MO options.. they will play it the exact same way that they play other Bioware games.. its something you see in WoW a lot.. players seem to go through the game treating it as if its a single player game, and they only really join in with others to do group content - dungeons etc.. with companions in SW:TOR.. Bioware seem to be taking this to the next level.. where joining with others will become almost entirely optional - worse, if the player prefers to have the companion in the group over a real player.. and with group sizes being what they are.. i can easily see this being a game where players will form 2 player 2 npc groups.. which will essentially be a single player game with .. optional multiplayer.. never mind that it is an MMO.. i see that as how people will treat the game.
I agree that SWTOR will draw in non-MMO gamers who're interested in a new BW game, just as WoW drew in fans of Blizzard games. And SWTOR's more story immersive quest leveling will people be happy and interested in the questing part of the game even more than in other themepark MMO's.
Let's take a step back and be objective about it, shall we:
- MMO gamers have been doing that, solo leveling, in MMO's since WoW. Big deal, it didn't make them forget about the other MMO features.
- MMO gamers loved the more story oriented quest leveling in CATA, that wasn't what they had a problem with, it was the other changes that came with CATA.
- SWTOR isn't the only one that focuses on more story oriented questing/leveling. GW2 will have the same with Personal Story, TSW with its VO/cinematic Missions. Does it make those MMO's singleplayer RPG's as well? Not really.
- SWTOR's 4 man teamsize, soft trinity team setup and Companion backup makes forming groups more flexible and smoother than in other MMO's. If you can't see how it works like that... well, I'm not going to try and explain, I guess you'll just have to wait till after launch.
- there's an abundance of Heroic Quest content ingame, enough to be able to level up in groups.
Basically, it looks to me like SWTOR will be played as much solo as well as (massively) multiplayer as other MMO's, and in some cases it'll even be more friendly and inviting towards group play. If you/people think it'll be played as a singleplayer RPG and nothing more than that, then you might as well say that all other questleveling based MMORPG's are played as singleplayer RPG's with some multiplayer features and nothing more than that.
And to people who think like that, it sounds to me like the very tiresome and annoying rant-against-themepark-gameplay and every feature that propagates themepark style of gameplay. I'd say to those that themepark design and gameplay like quest-favoring leveling is what you'll see in most of the MMO market today, get over it
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I doubt anyone voicing strong opinions haven't even played the game, let me hear from a player.
Meh, there are whole pages full of handson reports and impressions from people who played the game, for a hour, to several hours to 15-20 hours in a weekend to recently even a month. If you need links to those, just PM me or post it here.
So far, the vast majority was generally positive or enthusiastic about their gameplay experience.
Originally posted by Phry
i dont think the game will fail.. but.. i dont really see it as being all that popular.. or even having much in terms of longevity.. Despite all the discussions about the direction of the game, and whether it will be a true MMO or not.. its still largely seen as being a single player RPG with the option of multiplayer content.. at least that appears to be how the majority of players will treat it.. i think the crunch time for SW:TOR will be launch + 3 months.. if the game is to be deemed a success or failure.. it will be at this point. for me the game has definitely failed to impress.. so im not really all that optimistic.
SWTOR is an MMORPG. Everyone who at this stage is still thinking it'll be a singleplayer RPG with some multiplayer RPG is either being stupid/ignorant or hating on SWTOR, but it's not somebody who has deep experience with MMORPG's, at least not the themepark kind which happen to make up more than 80% of the MMO market.
For the rest, it remains to be seen: MMORPG's haven't been doing that well the last few years when it comes to growth or even player retention. SWTOR has the advantage of offering a world that's larger than all other themepark MMO's (easily 8-10 times Rift), an amount of content that dwarfs that of most other themepark MMO's and a more interesting leveling and alt leveling experience than other themepark MMO's, but will that be enough for player retention past the first 6 months? We'll see.
i do think that SW:TOR is an MMO.. what i am saying is that the majority of players will mostly likely treat it as if its a single player RPG with MO options.. they will play it the exact same way that they play other Bioware games.. its something you see in WoW a lot.. players seem to go through the game treating it as if its a single player game, and they only really join in with others to do group content - dungeons etc.. with companions in SW:TOR.. Bioware seem to be taking this to the next level.. where joining with others will become almost entirely optional - worse, if the player prefers to have the companion in the group over a real player.. and with group sizes being what they are.. i can easily see this being a game where players will form 2 player 2 npc groups.. which will essentially be a single player game with .. optional multiplayer.. never mind that it is an MMO.. i see that as how people will treat the game.
So because a player chooses to team up with only one other player. That makes it a bad thing?
Would you rather the two players be forced to spend all day searching for a full four man group instead?
What is your magic number that turns a game suddenly into multiplayer? Because last I checked. Multiplayer was two players and up.
The fact that you so readily accept that there will be 2 player + 2 npc groups just reinforces my argument.. i see that as being the most likely outcome..
Originally posted by Phry The fact that you so readily accept that there will be 2 player + 2 npc groups just reinforces my argument.. i see that as being the most likely outcome..
I readily accept? I more than welcome it! I am having a hard time seeing how it is a bad thing.
Hell. I already play with 2 player + 2 npc groups in Guild Wars at the moment. It was quite a refreshing experience after coming from the rat race that is WoW.
Not having to deal with 3 other incompetent, immature, elitist, etc. players who I don't know and being forced to group with is not a fun experience.
So because a player chooses to team up with only one other player. That makes it a bad thing?
Would you rather the two players be forced to spend all day searching for a full four man group instead?
What is your magic number that turns a game suddenly into multiplayer? Because last I checked. Multiplayer was two players and up.
Also really don't know why people are complaining about the flashpoints when there are operations (raids) suited to your mass-multiplayer needs.
You'll see that those saying the loudest that SWTOR will be a singleplayer RPG with multiplayer features and complain/rant about it are those who hate/dislike SWTOR or those who are actually sandbox fans, with little liking of themepark based gameplay.
It's natural that they protest the hardest against anything that is a development of themepark based features, because they're the ones who at the moment have the least MMO's that favor their taste in MMO gameplay.
Their argument against things like making questing and quest leveling in MMO's more interesting is the same as they have against themepark design in general: that it's too much solo oriented and not community oriented. It's the same record they keep playing, for as good as all themepark MMO's.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The fact that you so readily accept that there will be 2 player + 2 npc groups just reinforces my argument.. i see that as being the most likely outcome..
I readily accept? I more than welcome it! I am having a hard time seeing how it is a bad thing.
Perhaps thats just how MMO players are these days.... i guess SW:TOR will most likely be a success.
Originally posted by Binny45 /sigh The only thing failing in this thread is the OP. Getting tired of the "SWTOR will suck" when the game isn't even released yet.
People really need to learn what they like is subjective. Just because they don't like some thing. Doesn't make it wrong or a failure.
I don't even know what the game is like or if it will be a grand success. Because I haven't played the game either. It's all speculation that people are trying to disguise as fact.
really .... all MMOs are going to be like that, if you want to do things without the grinding, and the kiting of bosses, then go play a single-player RPG, online is going to be that way, they make you work for the items you get. Learn the basics, and you will go far, without knowing the basics, or just spouting off to vent .... not going to get you anywhere.
really .... all MMOs are going to be like that, if you want to do things without the grinding, and the kiting of bosses, then go play a single-player RPG, online is going to be that way, they make you work for the items you get. Learn the basics, and you will go far, without knowing the basics, or just spouting off to vent .... not going to get you anywhere.
My only grief is they kep saying how different TOR will be than any other MMO, especially WoW, and how they hyped the heroic feeling to end with the exact same stuf as all other MMO out there.
Game won't fail in numbers. It will sell like hot cakes. I'm guessing 2 milions boxes sold in the first month (check my other thread). It will fail at being heroic and different.
really .... all MMOs are going to be like that, if you want to do things without the grinding, and the kiting of bosses, then go play a single-player RPG, online is going to be that way, they make you work for the items you get. Learn the basics, and you will go far, without knowing the basics, or just spouting off to vent .... not going to get you anywhere.
My only grief is they kep saying how different TOR will be than any other MMO...
Where have you been? They had to confirm TOR was an MMO at all because of the thousands of goofballs claiming that it wasn't one, that it was just "single-player with a chatbox LOLOLOL." Now that we've established it is a fully-featured MMO, we've established that it's not too different from - gasp - WoW! Perhaps BioWare is doing that to make it accessible to the majority of MMO players and, more importantly, their other main source of players: Star Wars fans who've never touched an MMO before.
The moment they said "heroic" anything, you should've recognized it as a marketing buzzword. Not EVERYTHING in the game will be HEROIC every SECOND because you're playing TOR, which has HEROISM in its VERY DNA!!!! No. There will be heroic combat - but that's only as heroic as you make it. By heroic, we're talking about fast, exciting, powerful. A noob clicker who takes 5 seconds to activate each ability is not going to be any of the above, but an experienced pro would be. There will be heroic quests - but not EVERY quest, because they've admitted they have some of the standard-fare questing, but at least it has some background so you can care about what you're doing and why you're doing it. Using companions isn't the opposite of heroic; in fact, plenty of heroes don't do it alone, and those who do are usually foolish or unrealistic. I think everything else has been covered in this thread already.
really .... all MMOs are going to be like that, if you want to do things without the grinding, and the kiting of bosses, then go play a single-player RPG, online is going to be that way, they make you work for the items you get. Learn the basics, and you will go far, without knowing the basics, or just spouting off to vent .... not going to get you anywhere.
My only grief is they kep saying how different TOR will be than any other MMO...
Where have you been? They had to confirm TOR was an MMO at all because of the thousands of goofballs claiming that it wasn't one, that it was just "single-player with a chatbox LOLOLOL." Now that we've established it is a fully-featured MMO, we've established that it's not too different from - gasp - WoW! Perhaps BioWare is doing that to make it accessible to the majority of MMO players and, more importantly, their other main source of players: Star Wars fans who've never touched an MMO before.
The moment they said "heroic" anything, you should've recognized it as a marketing buzzword. Not EVERYTHING in the game will be HEROIC every SECOND because you're playing TOR, which has HEROISM in its VERY DNA!!!! No. There will be heroic combat - but that's only as heroic as you make it. By heroic, we're talking about fast, exciting, powerful. A noob clicker who takes 5 seconds to activate each ability is not going to be any of the above, but an experienced pro would be. There will be heroic quests - but not EVERY quest, because they've admitted they have some of the standard-fare questing, but at least it has some background so you can care about what you're doing and why you're doing it. Using companions isn't the opposite of heroic; in fact, plenty of heroes don't do it alone, and those who do are usually foolish or unrealistic. I think everything else has been covered in this thread already.
Let's take the RAID encounters to illustrate what I'm speaking about.
Since not so long ago BioWare kept saying how, contrary to others MMO, you will feel heroic as it won't be 20ish players kiting a single boss. In which case they put en emphasis saying it was the boss the true hero as figthing alone against many.
And now the result is exactly what is done in other MMO.
From a money standpoint probably not but why should any of us care about money we won't make in the first place?
It's probably going to fail in quality like most games have the past decade or so. Won't change my opinion of Bioware though. They're incredible but since they've never made an MMO before, they're taking really safe routes with the game. Whatever though, I'm sure some people will like it. But it won't have a lasting impact on the industry or genre. Or me(not that it matters).
really .... all MMOs are going to be like that, if you want to do things without the grinding, and the kiting of bosses, then go play a single-player RPG, online is going to be that way, they make you work for the items you get. Learn the basics, and you will go far, without knowing the basics, or just spouting off to vent .... not going to get you anywhere.
My only grief is they kep saying how different TOR will be than any other MMO...
Where have you been? They had to confirm TOR was an MMO at all because of the thousands of goofballs claiming that it wasn't one, that it was just "single-player with a chatbox LOLOLOL." Now that we've established it is a fully-featured MMO, we've established that it's not too different from - gasp - WoW! Perhaps BioWare is doing that to make it accessible to the majority of MMO players and, more importantly, their other main source of players: Star Wars fans who've never touched an MMO before.
The moment they said "heroic" anything, you should've recognized it as a marketing buzzword. Not EVERYTHING in the game will be HEROIC every SECOND because you're playing TOR, which has HEROISM in its VERY DNA!!!! No. There will be heroic combat - but that's only as heroic as you make it. By heroic, we're talking about fast, exciting, powerful. A noob clicker who takes 5 seconds to activate each ability is not going to be any of the above, but an experienced pro would be. There will be heroic quests - but not EVERY quest, because they've admitted they have some of the standard-fare questing, but at least it has some background so you can care about what you're doing and why you're doing it. Using companions isn't the opposite of heroic; in fact, plenty of heroes don't do it alone, and those who do are usually foolish or unrealistic. I think everything else has been covered in this thread already.
Let's take the RAID encounters to illustrate what I'm speaking about.
Since not so long ago BioWare kept saying how, contrary to others MMO, you will feel heroic as it won't be 20ish players kiting a single boss. In which case they put en emphasis saying it was the boss the true hero as figthing alone against many.
And now the result is exactly what is done in other MMO.
Deewe, can I get the link to whatever it is your talking about here, because so far I have not seen anything like what you are talking about. If your talking the Alderaan Flashpoint, that looks to be only a four man quest arc, if your talking the endgame raid, I haven't seen how the end works out and would love to know so that link would be useful.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I'll disagree on them not doing what the players want.
Gratned the graphics aren't the best in the world, and players did want super realistic. The problem falls into longetivity, most players agree that super realitic (what players wanted) doesn't last as long visual wise as something stylized. BUt as for not doing what players wanted, i'll disagree and add proof along with it.
Players really didn't want Jedi Wizard. Bioware saw this put out a poll and asked out of 5 or so choices which one they'd want. Jedi consular won out by popular vote..So, Bioware changed the name from Jedi Wizard to Jedi Consular.
Second People really didn't like the old UI (beta players) so Bioware changed it up to what we have today.
They are also giving fans the ability to have a Bioware style game inside of an MMO, so that way they can share the adventure they have inside of the kotor universe, with others.
So i'll just disagree on them not giving people what they want, and add i think some people want something and if Bioware doesn't implement that then somehow Bioware isn't doing what the people want...personaly myself I like the graphics (i didn't care for them at first but they got better and now they are good imo).
#1 There's a difference between low polys and cartoonish graphics.
#2 The old UI was only a place holder and I for one prefer it as the new one is bolder and more intrusive
#3 The Jedi Wizard is just a field change in the DB, it's done in like 2 min?
#4 TOR doesn't really look like Kotor, more like Sci-Fi Wow
#5 For example in all polls based on gear vs stats, social cloting and so on over 80% of the voters said they want a social clothing tab and are bored with Wow system obliging you to wear your stats. => BioWare answer: no social clothing tab.
For the space combat, before the reveal, in all polls the StarFox and like tube shooter got around 3% votes => BioWare answer: tube shooter.
Same for the playable alien species => BioWare answer: blue - green - red - blind humanoids.
Also check the polls on Pazaak and pod racing => BioWare answer: not even at launch
And for the record I'm speaking of polls with over 1k votes, which we can agree gives a very good view with a very low margin of error.
Would BioWare/LA answer players needs and want the game would look like this:
Stylised realistic graphics with average polys
Wookies and many other playable alien races
3D space shooter (X-wing or BF type)
Social clothing or Aion system
Pazaak and pod racing
Now what would be the game of my liking:
- No levels
- No trinity system
- Non combat classes
- Enhanced SWG crafting system
- FPS combat with LOS
- X-wing based combat system
- Smuggling missions and player bounties
Translation:
Hear me QQ because TOR isn't SWG 2.0.
BW ovbiously has a very different vision of what this game should look like than you do. That's fine- you're entitled to feel however you want about it.
What I really don't get is how you somehow seem to think 'the fans' (meaning 'me and all the people who think like me') own the game and BW is betraying you by not delivering exactly what you want.
In fact, they seem to have gone out of their way to accomodate and involve fans in decisions where it was possible to involve them. If they went and did a total redesign of the game every time 1k+ people had a nerdrage fit over some feature they didn't like, the game would be a mishmash PoS if it ever actually made it to launch.
If you really don't like the direction they took, don't buy the game.
Also, what's in the game at launch isn't the sum total of what the game will be- that's the wonderful thing about MMOs- with a good company providing new content and tweaking the game, it just keeps evolving.
So take a chill pill, drop the sense of entitlement and reserve your judgement till you get your sticky little hands of a live copy, huh?
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: Be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge. -Elbert Hubbard
Combat was supposed to be heroic and from what we saw it's the exact same thing as in WoW. Boss kiting... heroic?
Quests: going into a sith temple to kill worms... heroic?
Crafting: selecting a companion - click to have him/her do something - get results... heroic?
Space sim: Point and clicking in 2D on space ships not even trying to stay in your six, heroic?
Having the exact same ship (mobile home) as any other [insert class name]... makes you fuzzy?
Look & gear: grinding gear to look like any other maxed out character, so unique feeling!
Companions: wandering around with the same disguised companion(s) as anyone else.. heroic?
Being "obliged" to use companions to solo... heroicness ftw!
90% of those things you mentioned are single player mechanics. Bioware has never made an mmo and yes it will fail as an mmo. It will succeed as a singleplayer extension of kotor series (3) online pay to play with companions.. This game gets more ridiculous by the week. I highly doubt many traditional mmo gamers will enjoy this game and it will more than likely find a very small niche of gamers who will defend it with violence..
Its such a sad state of affairs that people are actually being suckered into this garbage pay model for an online co op game. Theres nothing massive about this game except that it will fail massively.. Im more pissed off now than I was yesterday since even space combat is single player only... yes single player only! This is a fkn MMO bioware!
We as mmo gamers need to see this game fail hard.. Or we will never break out of the rut that wow was a good game (its not) so stealing game design from them is stupid. And this new single player pay to play model bioware is introducting is totally next generation.. its the only thing next gen about this game. This is a fkn single player online game with a fee.... Why do we keep supporting this garbage...?
Combat was supposed to be heroic and from what we saw it's the exact same thing as in WoW. Boss kiting... heroic?
Quests: going into a sith temple to kill worms... heroic?
Crafting: selecting a companion - click to have him/her do something - get results... heroic?
Space sim: Point and clicking in 2D on space ships not even trying to stay in your six, heroic?
Having the exact same ship (mobile home) as any other [insert class name]... makes you fuzzy?
Look & gear: grinding gear to look like any other maxed out character, so unique feeling!
Companions: wandering around with the same disguised companion(s) as anyone else.. heroic?
Being "obliged" to use companions to solo... heroicness ftw!
90% of those things you mentioned are single player mechanics. Bioware has never made an mmo and yes it will fail as an mmo. It will succeed as a singleplayer extension of kotor series (3) online pay to play with companions.. This game gets more ridiculous by the week. I highly doubt many traditional mmo gamers will enjoy this game and it will more than likely find a very small niche of gamers who will defend it with violence..
Its such a sad state of affairs that people are actually being suckered into this garbage pay model for an online co op game. Theres nothing massive about this game except that it will fail massively.. Im more pissed off now than I was yesterday since even space combat is single player only... yes single player only! This is a fkn MMO bioware!
We as mmo gamers need to see this game fail hard.. Or we will never break out of the rut that wow was a good game (its not) so stealing game design from them is stupid. And this new single player pay to play model bioware is introducting is totally next generation.. its the only thing next gen about this game. This is a fkn single player online game with a fee.... Why do we keep supporting this garbage...?
This is surely a blatant trolling post.
Stop using your personal opinions to speak for all MMO players please.
Combat was supposed to be heroic and from what we saw it's the exact same thing as in WoW. Boss kiting... heroic?
Quests: going into a sith temple to kill worms... heroic?
Crafting: selecting a companion - click to have him/her do something - get results... heroic?
Space sim: Point and clicking in 2D on space ships not even trying to stay in your six, heroic?
Having the exact same ship (mobile home) as any other [insert class name]... makes you fuzzy?
Look & gear: grinding gear to look like any other maxed out character, so unique feeling!
Companions: wandering around with the same disguised companion(s) as anyone else.. heroic?
Being "obliged" to use companions to solo... heroicness ftw!
90% of those things you mentioned are single player mechanics. Bioware has never made an mmo and yes it will fail as an mmo. It will succeed as a singleplayer extension of kotor series (3) online pay to play with companions.. This game gets more ridiculous by the week. I highly doubt many traditional mmo gamers will enjoy this game and it will more than likely find a very small niche of gamers who will defend it with violence..
Its such a sad state of affairs that people are actually being suckered into this garbage pay model for an online co op game. Theres nothing massive about this game except that it will fail massively.. Im more pissed off now than I was yesterday since even space combat is single player only... yes single player only! This is a fkn MMO bioware!
We as mmo gamers need to see this game fail hard.. Or we will never break out of the rut that wow was a good game (its not) so stealing game design from them is stupid. And this new single player pay to play model bioware is introducting is totally next generation.. its the only thing next gen about this game. This is a fkn single player online game with a fee.... Why do we keep supporting this garbage...?
Clearly you have not actually done even the slightest bit of research into the game, how is it not an mmo? Or is this just a bit of dummy spitting attention seeking?
Combat was supposed to be heroic and from what we saw it's the exact same thing as in WoW. Boss kiting... heroic?
Quests: going into a sith temple to kill worms... heroic?
Crafting: selecting a companion - click to have him/her do something - get results... heroic?
Space sim: Point and clicking in 2D on space ships not even trying to stay in your six, heroic?
Having the exact same ship (mobile home) as any other [insert class name]... makes you fuzzy?
Look & gear: grinding gear to look like any other maxed out character, so unique feeling!
Companions: wandering around with the same disguised companion(s) as anyone else.. heroic?
Being "obliged" to use companions to solo... heroicness ftw!
90% of those things you mentioned are single player mechanics. Bioware has never made an mmo and yes it will fail as an mmo. It will succeed as a singleplayer extension of kotor series (3) online pay to play with companions.. This game gets more ridiculous by the week. I highly doubt many traditional mmo gamers will enjoy this game and it will more than likely find a very small niche of gamers who will defend it with violence..
Its such a sad state of affairs that people are actually being suckered into this garbage pay model for an online co op game. Theres nothing massive about this game except that it will fail massively.. Im more pissed off now than I was yesterday since even space combat is single player only... yes single player only! This is a fkn MMO bioware!
We as mmo gamers need to see this game fail hard.. Or we will never break out of the rut that wow was a good game (its not) so stealing game design from them is stupid. And this new single player pay to play model bioware is introducting is totally next generation.. its the only thing next gen about this game. This is a fkn single player online game with a fee.... Why do we keep supporting this garbage...?
While i do agree with you.. the sad thing is that a great many probably will buy into this.. the only question is for how long.. All i see is an even longer wait before we really do see innovation appear in MMO's...
90% of those things you mentioned are single player mechanics. Bioware has never made an mmo and yes it will fail as an mmo. It will succeed as a singleplayer extension of kotor series (3) online pay to play with companions.. This game gets more ridiculous by the week. I highly doubt many traditional mmo gamers will enjoy this game and it will more than likely find a very small niche of gamers who will defend it with violence..
Its such a sad state of affairs that people are actually being suckered into this garbage pay model for an online co op game. Theres nothing massive about this game except that it will fail massively.. Im more pissed off now than I was yesterday since even space combat is single player only... yes single player only! This is a fkn MMO bioware!
We as mmo gamers need to see this game fail hard.. Or we will never break out of the rut that wow was a good game (its not) so stealing game design from them is stupid. And this new single player pay to play model bioware is introducting is totally next generation.. its the only thing next gen about this game. This is a fkn single player online game with a fee.... Why do we keep supporting this garbage...?
Another f*cking psychic, it's getting more and more ridiculous by the week
I can pretty sure assume one thing though, pure sandbox fans will HATE it when SWTOR launches, just as many of them have already shown to despise SWTOR on these forums.
As for anyone who still claims at this stage that SWTOR is a singleplayer game with some multiplayer features, those people have left their brains in the freezer or drenched them away in alcohol baths, or they have kept themselves wilfully ignorant about anything they didn't want to hear about SWTOR.
Not massive? Lol! The planets of SWTOR are already almost as large as Rift's entire world, and that applies to EACH of the 13 normal planets, and it will have bucketloads of content that dwarf most other (themepark) MMORPG's, you bet that SWTOR will be an MMORPG and a big one too!
Of course, the SWTOR haters can't stomach that another WoW-style themepark MMORPG could be successful, that's why they keep hammering on SWTOR again and again. It'll be interesting to see how they'll react when SWTOR is hugely successful and stays that way for months after its launch. They better get used to having several big title WoW-like themepark MMO's around, but then again, they should have gotten used to that after the past few years anyway
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Combat was supposed to be heroic and from what we saw it's the exact same thing as in WoW. Boss kiting... heroic?
Quests: going into a sith temple to kill worms... heroic?
Crafting: selecting a companion - click to have him/her do something - get results... heroic?
Space sim: Point and clicking in 2D on space ships not even trying to stay in your six, heroic?
Having the exact same ship (mobile home) as any other [insert class name]... makes you fuzzy?
Look & gear: grinding gear to look like any other maxed out character, so unique feeling!
Companions: wandering around with the same disguised companion(s) as anyone else.. heroic?
Being "obliged" to use companions to solo... heroicness ftw!
90% of those things you mentioned are single player mechanics. Bioware has never made an mmo and yes it will fail as an mmo. It will succeed as a singleplayer extension of kotor series (3) online pay to play with companions.. This game gets more ridiculous by the week. I highly doubt many traditional mmo gamers will enjoy this game and it will more than likely find a very small niche of gamers who will defend it with violence..
Its such a sad state of affairs that people are actually being suckered into this garbage pay model for an online co op game. Theres nothing massive about this game except that it will fail massively.. Im more pissed off now than I was yesterday since even space combat is single player only... yes single player only! This is a fkn MMO bioware!
We as mmo gamers need to see this game fail hard.. Or we will never break out of the rut that wow was a good game (its not) so stealing game design from them is stupid. And this new single player pay to play model bioware is introducting is totally next generation.. its the only thing next gen about this game. This is a fkn single player online game with a fee.... Why do we keep supporting this garbage...?
Clearly you have not actually done even the slightest bit of research into the game, how is it not an mmo? Or is this just a bit of dummy spitting attention seeking?
I am a hard core MMO player and a long time MMO player. I started with AOL Never winter Nights and M59, then Eq, AC1, and UO and just about every major release since.
I want TOR to succeed on all fronts. I also love Bioware games and have enjoyed them all the way back to when they started. This game does not look rediculous in the least and as Krothoeses noted you clearly have not learned much at all about this game nor have you taken the time to understand it.
It IS an MMO in every sense of the word with the great story telling ability that has made other Bioware games succeed. Blizzard had not done an MMO prior to WOW either so that is a poor example.
I love how some of the poster here speak in absolutes about the failure of the game as if they have some inside track with god to see the future. My personal opinion is that these folks are a loud, angry, bitter and burned out minority and I believe this game will succeed. One of the big reasons is that it will draw in tons of people who will have this as one of the first MMO experience and will love it.
As part of WE the MMO community I am looking forward to this game and I am guessing I am not alone in that so please don't suggest what I need to see as part of WE the community becaue I want the game to succeed.
This thread just needs to die and go away as it is rediculous and silly. We should all be wanting this game to win. The investment and attention to detail is huge. If it fails it will probably spell the demise of the MMO genre in the west.
This thread just needs to die and go away as it is rediculous and silly. We should all be wanting this game to win. The investment and attention to detail is huge. If it fails it will probably spell the demise of the MMO genre in the west.
can't agree more, i still fail to see the value of those posts, all they are about is trolling a game as it seems.
@topic: no idea if TOR will fail, i can tell you once i got into beta and NDA was lifted ^^ any statement before that moment would be pure theory, nothing else.
so, there is nothing to see, move along please!
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Comments
You'll be waiting for a while. Last I checked, all testers are under NDA so even if someone does say 'SWTOR is ZYX' you have to take it with a grain of salt.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Meh, there are whole pages full of handson reports and impressions from people who played the game, for a hour, to several hours to 15-20 hours in a weekend to recently even a month. If you need links to those, just PM me or post it here.
So far, the vast majority was generally positive or enthusiastic about their gameplay experiences.
SWTOR is an MMORPG. Everyone who at this stage is still thinking it'll be a singleplayer RPG with some multiplayer features is either being stupid/ignorant or hating on SWTOR, but it's not somebody who has deep experience with MMORPG's, at least not the themepark kind which happen to make up more than 80% of the MMO market.
For the rest, it remains to be seen: MMORPG's haven't been doing that well the last few years when it comes to growth or even player retention. SWTOR has the advantage of offering a world that's larger than all other themepark MMO's (easily 8-10 times Rift), an amount of content that dwarfs that of most other themepark MMO's and a more interesting leveling and alt leveling experience than other themepark MMO's, but will that be enough for player retention past the first 6 months? We'll see.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
i do think that SW:TOR is an MMO.. what i am saying is that the majority of players will mostly likely treat it as if its a single player RPG with MO options.. they will play it the exact same way that they play other Bioware games.. its something you see in WoW a lot.. players seem to go through the game treating it as if its a single player game, and they only really join in with others to do group content - dungeons etc.. with companions in SW:TOR.. Bioware seem to be taking this to the next level.. where joining with others will become almost entirely optional - worse, if the player prefers to have the companion in the group over a real player.. and with group sizes being what they are.. i can easily see this being a game where players will form 2 player 2 npc groups.. which will essentially be a single player game with .. optional multiplayer.. never mind that it is an MMO.. i see that as how people will treat the game.
So because a player chooses to team up with only one other player. That makes it a bad thing?
Would you rather the two players be forced to spend all day searching for a full four man group instead?
What is your magic number that turns a game suddenly into multiplayer? Because last I checked. Multiplayer was two players and up.
Also really don't know why people are complaining about the flashpoints when there are operations (raids) suited to your mass-multiplayer needs.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
I agree that SWTOR will draw in non-MMO gamers who're interested in a new BW game, just as WoW drew in fans of Blizzard games. And SWTOR's more story immersive quest leveling will people be happy and interested in the questing part of the game even more than in other themepark MMO's.
Let's take a step back and be objective about it, shall we:
- MMO gamers have been doing that, solo leveling, in MMO's since WoW. Big deal, it didn't make them forget about the other MMO features.
- MMO gamers loved the more story oriented quest leveling in CATA, that wasn't what they had a problem with, it was the other changes that came with CATA.
- SWTOR isn't the only one that focuses on more story oriented questing/leveling. GW2 will have the same with Personal Story, TSW with its VO/cinematic Missions. Does it make those MMO's singleplayer RPG's as well? Not really.
- SWTOR's 4 man teamsize, soft trinity team setup and Companion backup makes forming groups more flexible and smoother than in other MMO's. If you can't see how it works like that... well, I'm not going to try and explain, I guess you'll just have to wait till after launch.
- there's an abundance of Heroic Quest content ingame, enough to be able to level up in groups.
Basically, it looks to me like SWTOR will be played as much solo as well as (massively) multiplayer as other MMO's, and in some cases it'll even be more friendly and inviting towards group play. If you/people think it'll be played as a singleplayer RPG and nothing more than that, then you might as well say that all other questleveling based MMORPG's are played as singleplayer RPG's with some multiplayer features and nothing more than that.
And to people who think like that, it sounds to me like the very tiresome and annoying rant-against-themepark-gameplay and every feature that propagates themepark style of gameplay. I'd say to those that themepark design and gameplay like quest-favoring leveling is what you'll see in most of the MMO market today, get over it
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The fact that you so readily accept that there will be 2 player + 2 npc groups just reinforces my argument.. i see that as being the most likely outcome..
I readily accept? I more than welcome it! I am having a hard time seeing how it is a bad thing.
Hell. I already play with 2 player + 2 npc groups in Guild Wars at the moment. It was quite a refreshing experience after coming from the rat race that is WoW.
Not having to deal with 3 other incompetent, immature, elitist, etc. players who I don't know and being forced to group with is not a fun experience.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
You'll see that those saying the loudest that SWTOR will be a singleplayer RPG with multiplayer features and complain/rant about it are those who hate/dislike SWTOR or those who are actually sandbox fans, with little liking of themepark based gameplay.
It's natural that they protest the hardest against anything that is a development of themepark based features, because they're the ones who at the moment have the least MMO's that favor their taste in MMO gameplay.
Their argument against things like making questing and quest leveling in MMO's more interesting is the same as they have against themepark design in general: that it's too much solo oriented and not community oriented. It's the same record they keep playing, for as good as all themepark MMO's.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Perhaps thats just how MMO players are these days.... i guess SW:TOR will most likely be a success.
/sigh
The only thing failing in this thread is the OP.
Getting tired of the "SWTOR will suck" when the game isn't even released yet.
People really need to learn what they like is subjective. Just because they don't like some thing. Doesn't make it wrong or a failure.
I don't even know what the game is like or if it will be a grand success. Because I haven't played the game either. It's all speculation that people are trying to disguise as fact.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
really .... all MMOs are going to be like that, if you want to do things without the grinding, and the kiting of bosses, then go play a single-player RPG, online is going to be that way, they make you work for the items you get. Learn the basics, and you will go far, without knowing the basics, or just spouting off to vent .... not going to get you anywhere.
My only grief is they kep saying how different TOR will be than any other MMO, especially WoW, and how they hyped the heroic feeling to end with the exact same stuf as all other MMO out there.
Game won't fail in numbers. It will sell like hot cakes. I'm guessing 2 milions boxes sold in the first month (check my other thread). It will fail at being heroic and different.
Where have you been? They had to confirm TOR was an MMO at all because of the thousands of goofballs claiming that it wasn't one, that it was just "single-player with a chatbox LOLOLOL." Now that we've established it is a fully-featured MMO, we've established that it's not too different from - gasp - WoW! Perhaps BioWare is doing that to make it accessible to the majority of MMO players and, more importantly, their other main source of players: Star Wars fans who've never touched an MMO before.
The moment they said "heroic" anything, you should've recognized it as a marketing buzzword. Not EVERYTHING in the game will be HEROIC every SECOND because you're playing TOR, which has HEROISM in its VERY DNA!!!! No. There will be heroic combat - but that's only as heroic as you make it. By heroic, we're talking about fast, exciting, powerful. A noob clicker who takes 5 seconds to activate each ability is not going to be any of the above, but an experienced pro would be. There will be heroic quests - but not EVERY quest, because they've admitted they have some of the standard-fare questing, but at least it has some background so you can care about what you're doing and why you're doing it. Using companions isn't the opposite of heroic; in fact, plenty of heroes don't do it alone, and those who do are usually foolish or unrealistic. I think everything else has been covered in this thread already.
Let's take the RAID encounters to illustrate what I'm speaking about.
Since not so long ago BioWare kept saying how, contrary to others MMO, you will feel heroic as it won't be 20ish players kiting a single boss. In which case they put en emphasis saying it was the boss the true hero as figthing alone against many.
And now the result is exactly what is done in other MMO.
From a money standpoint probably not but why should any of us care about money we won't make in the first place?
It's probably going to fail in quality like most games have the past decade or so. Won't change my opinion of Bioware though. They're incredible but since they've never made an MMO before, they're taking really safe routes with the game. Whatever though, I'm sure some people will like it. But it won't have a lasting impact on the industry or genre. Or me(not that it matters).
Deewe, can I get the link to whatever it is your talking about here, because so far I have not seen anything like what you are talking about. If your talking the Alderaan Flashpoint, that looks to be only a four man quest arc, if your talking the endgame raid, I haven't seen how the end works out and would love to know so that link would be useful.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Translation:
Hear me QQ because TOR isn't SWG 2.0.
BW ovbiously has a very different vision of what this game should look like than you do. That's fine- you're entitled to feel however you want about it.
What I really don't get is how you somehow seem to think 'the fans' (meaning 'me and all the people who think like me') own the game and BW is betraying you by not delivering exactly what you want.
In fact, they seem to have gone out of their way to accomodate and involve fans in decisions where it was possible to involve them. If they went and did a total redesign of the game every time 1k+ people had a nerdrage fit over some feature they didn't like, the game would be a mishmash PoS if it ever actually made it to launch.
If you really don't like the direction they took, don't buy the game.
Also, what's in the game at launch isn't the sum total of what the game will be- that's the wonderful thing about MMOs- with a good company providing new content and tweaking the game, it just keeps evolving.
So take a chill pill, drop the sense of entitlement and reserve your judgement till you get your sticky little hands of a live copy, huh?
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: Be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
-Elbert Hubbard
90% of those things you mentioned are single player mechanics. Bioware has never made an mmo and yes it will fail as an mmo. It will succeed as a singleplayer extension of kotor series (3) online pay to play with companions.. This game gets more ridiculous by the week. I highly doubt many traditional mmo gamers will enjoy this game and it will more than likely find a very small niche of gamers who will defend it with violence..
Its such a sad state of affairs that people are actually being suckered into this garbage pay model for an online co op game. Theres nothing massive about this game except that it will fail massively.. Im more pissed off now than I was yesterday since even space combat is single player only... yes single player only! This is a fkn MMO bioware!
We as mmo gamers need to see this game fail hard.. Or we will never break out of the rut that wow was a good game (its not) so stealing game design from them is stupid. And this new single player pay to play model bioware is introducting is totally next generation.. its the only thing next gen about this game. This is a fkn single player online game with a fee.... Why do we keep supporting this garbage...?
This is surely a blatant trolling post.
Stop using your personal opinions to speak for all MMO players please.
Clearly you have not actually done even the slightest bit of research into the game, how is it not an mmo? Or is this just a bit of dummy spitting attention seeking?
While i do agree with you.. the sad thing is that a great many probably will buy into this.. the only question is for how long.. All i see is an even longer wait before we really do see innovation appear in MMO's...
Another f*cking psychic, it's getting more and more ridiculous by the week
I can pretty sure assume one thing though, pure sandbox fans will HATE it when SWTOR launches, just as many of them have already shown to despise SWTOR on these forums.
As for anyone who still claims at this stage that SWTOR is a singleplayer game with some multiplayer features, those people have left their brains in the freezer or drenched them away in alcohol baths, or they have kept themselves wilfully ignorant about anything they didn't want to hear about SWTOR.
Not massive? Lol! The planets of SWTOR are already almost as large as Rift's entire world, and that applies to EACH of the 13 normal planets, and it will have bucketloads of content that dwarf most other (themepark) MMORPG's, you bet that SWTOR will be an MMORPG and a big one too!
Of course, the SWTOR haters can't stomach that another WoW-style themepark MMORPG could be successful, that's why they keep hammering on SWTOR again and again. It'll be interesting to see how they'll react when SWTOR is hugely successful and stays that way for months after its launch. They better get used to having several big title WoW-like themepark MMO's around, but then again, they should have gotten used to that after the past few years anyway
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I am a hard core MMO player and a long time MMO player. I started with AOL Never winter Nights and M59, then Eq, AC1, and UO and just about every major release since.
I want TOR to succeed on all fronts. I also love Bioware games and have enjoyed them all the way back to when they started. This game does not look rediculous in the least and as Krothoeses noted you clearly have not learned much at all about this game nor have you taken the time to understand it.
It IS an MMO in every sense of the word with the great story telling ability that has made other Bioware games succeed. Blizzard had not done an MMO prior to WOW either so that is a poor example.
I love how some of the poster here speak in absolutes about the failure of the game as if they have some inside track with god to see the future. My personal opinion is that these folks are a loud, angry, bitter and burned out minority and I believe this game will succeed. One of the big reasons is that it will draw in tons of people who will have this as one of the first MMO experience and will love it.
As part of WE the MMO community I am looking forward to this game and I am guessing I am not alone in that so please don't suggest what I need to see as part of WE the community becaue I want the game to succeed.
This thread just needs to die and go away as it is rediculous and silly. We should all be wanting this game to win. The investment and attention to detail is huge. If it fails it will probably spell the demise of the MMO genre in the west.
can't agree more, i still fail to see the value of those posts, all they are about is trolling a game as it seems.
@topic: no idea if TOR will fail, i can tell you once i got into beta and NDA was lifted ^^ any statement before that moment would be pure theory, nothing else.
so, there is nothing to see, move along please!
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"