Originally posted by dougmysticey ... it is NOT a WOW clone with star wars skin.
Define WoW-Clone please.
A game that feels like WoW.
Thats a completely useless definition since its subjective only.
I.e. i have no idea what you mean by that
Define love:
Love is a feeling that feels like love.
????
GW2. Clearly it is a WOW clone that does not incorporate grouping.
Thats an example but not a definition, nice try though.
To produce a copy of; imitate closely
how closely is "closely"?
is a control-scheme close enough? the setting? story-structure? design-decissions?
this definition is lacking...
Most are. It's all in what you percieve makes it a wow clone, a lot of games can be broken down and have mechanics that are similar to WOW, you could nit pick and say just because it has a similar UI it must be a WOW clone.
Originally posted by dougmysticey ... it is NOT a WOW clone with star wars skin.
Define WoW-Clone please.
A game that feels like WoW.
Thats a completely useless definition since its subjective only.
I.e. i have no idea what you mean by that
Define love:
Love is a feeling that feels like love.
????
GW2. Clearly it is a WOW clone that does not incorporate grouping.
Thats an example but not a definition, nice try though.
To produce a copy of; imitate closely
how closely is "closely"?
is a control-scheme close enough? the setting? story-structure? design-decissions?
this definition is lacking...
Most are. It's all in what you percieve makes it a wow clone, a lot of games can be broken down and have mechanics that are similar to WOW, you could nit pick and say just because it has a similar UI it must be a WOW clone.
So there is no objective definition of Wow-Clone, making everyone right and wrong at the same time.
After all if my "feeling" is its a wow-clone im as right as you are when you say its "not a wow-clone".
So in the end you can not defend you position that it neither isnt or is a wow-clone making the argument from WoW-Clone pure subjective opinion.
Originally posted by dougmysticey ... it is NOT a WOW clone with star wars skin.
Define WoW-Clone please.
A game that feels like WoW.
Thats a completely useless definition since its subjective only.
I.e. i have no idea what you mean by that
Define love:
Love is a feeling that feels like love.
????
GW2. Clearly it is a WOW clone that does not incorporate grouping.
Thats an example but not a definition, nice try though.
To produce a copy of; imitate closely
how closely is "closely"?
is a control-scheme close enough? the setting? story-structure? design-decissions?
this definition is lacking...
Most are. It's all in what you percieve makes it a wow clone, a lot of games can be broken down and have mechanics that are similar to WOW, you could nit pick and say just because it has a similar UI it must be a WOW clone.
So there is no objective definition of Wow-Clone, making everyone right and wrong at the same time.
After all if my "feeling" is its a wow-clone im as right as you are when you say its "not a wow-clone".
So in the end you can not defend you position that it neither isnt or is a wow-clone making the argument from WoW-Clone pure subjective opinion.
Correct?
Yes, it has some WOW elements, so does GW2 and many other MMO's out there. You could say a Mercedez is a Model T clone if you want to since they have similar aspects.
I already saw several idiots saying that game X is a WoW-clone because of the UI it wouldn't surprise me at all. I.E warhammer online was said to be a WoW clone by many and yet they ignored the fact that the game was based around PvP and not PvE.
It tend to ignore all those idiots that say X game is a clone. Every game outhere takes from previous ones or have similar systems and mechanics but there are alot of people who can't see past WoW unfortunately. The fact is that SWTOR will be a different experience than any other MMO outhere, because of the cinematic cutscenes with VO and choices with consequences.
And this game will not fail, it is very simple to understand. Bioware + Star Wars fans = millions, the game seems to be good so it won't fall like previous MMO's. Unless you people only consider a game to be sucessful if it surpasses WoW in subscribers rofl.
Originally posted by dougmysticey ... it is NOT a WOW clone with star wars skin.
Define WoW-Clone please.
To the people that loosely toss out the term, like the person I was responding too, it is ANY MMO that uses ANY standards developed in the MMORPG industry or in many cases standards of single player RPGs particularly in the fantasy genre.
If it has any ONE of these standards many will call it a WOW clone due to the lack of awareness of MMOs and single player RPGS prior to or since WOW.
For example: Most MMOs have a similar UI so many will automatically label a game a WOW clone for that alone. WOW did not invent the UI look and feel it uses. Many games have used the UI style before and since to some degree or another.
Another common but falible comparison are quest givers with something overhead to designate the quest giver. This did not ORIGINATE in WOW as a way to deliver quest or "themepark" style games which may also apply to ingle player RPGs BUT is often used as the SOLE determining factor to claim a game is a WOW clone.
Since I DO NOT use the term WOW clone to define something that uses MMO standards I am not normally in a place to define it. I have done so to clarify my statement.
Originally posted by dougmysticey ... it is NOT a WOW clone with star wars skin.
Define WoW-Clone please.
A game that feels like WoW.
Thats a completely useless definition since its subjective only.
I.e. i have no idea what you mean by that
Define love:
Love is a feeling that feels like love.
????
GW2. Clearly it is a WOW clone that does not incorporate grouping.
Thats an example but not a definition, nice try though.
To produce a copy of; imitate closely
how closely is "closely"?
is a control-scheme close enough? the setting? story-structure? design-decissions?
this definition is lacking...
Most are. It's all in what you percieve makes it a wow clone, a lot of games can be broken down and have mechanics that are similar to WOW, you could nit pick and say just because it has a similar UI it must be a WOW clone.
So there is no objective definition of Wow-Clone, making everyone right and wrong at the same time.
After all if my "feeling" is its a wow-clone im as right as you are when you say its "not a wow-clone".
So in the end you can not defend you position that it neither isnt or is a wow-clone making the argument from WoW-Clone pure subjective opinion.
Correct?
Incorrect. While it may appear subjective in every way it is the way in which the term is used as a negative conotation that a game is attempting to "copy" the features of WOW as opposed to using MMO industry standards that are not and never have been exclusive to WOW.
I think it is easier to defned that a game is NOT a WOW clone moreso than whether it IS a clone because a CLONED game would have to be proven to be deliberately copying WOW and not simply applying standards developed by many games that are both MMOs and single or co-op RPGs.
After playing Gods and heroes, i really loved the companion system and SWTOR have mooore advanced companion system then gods and heroes and i am looking forward to it. other then that its WoW in space which doesnt bother me at all.
Even if I don't like the game,I don't believe that it will fail because some people labeled it a WoW clone.I see Bioware making a game for the Star Wars fan and RPers because after watching several videos,I feel that they nailed it and the world breathe Star Wars.A lot of people will hate it but a lot will love it because Bioware is building a world and not simply a game with a backdrop.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
After playing Gods and heroes, i really loved the companion system and SWTOR have mooore advanced companion system then gods and heroes and i am looking forward to it. other then that its a themepark MMO which doesnt bother me at all.
Combat was supposed to be heroic and from what we saw it's the exact same thing as in WoW. Boss kiting... heroic?
Quests: going into a sith temple to kill worms... heroic?
Crafting: selecting a companion - click to have him/her do something - get results... heroic?
Space sim: Point and clicking in 2D on space ships not even trying to stay in your six, heroic?
Having the exact same ship (mobile home) as any other [insert class name]... makes you fuzzy?
Look & gear: grinding gear to look like any other maxed out character, so unique feeling!
Companions: wandering around with the same disguised companion(s) as anyone else.. heroic?
Being "obliged" to use companions to solo... heroicness ftw!
The question is: Do YOU want the game to fail heroically?
Considering that no one (at least that can talk about it) has played the game, there is no way to say that any of the bullet points mentioned above we be a "fact" or even play into the success (or failure) of SWTOR. Therefore, this is just another negative "hate" thread based upon assumption and not known facts.
Will TOR fail? The answer is no. Bioware never fails . In all my years of playing Bioware games they have never let me down. Plus from everything I have seen they have nailed the Star Wars setting and got it right. I look forward to the game.
It won't be a failure -- but it will not be the game many of us have been looking to find.
Not even for Star Wars fanatics. It will maintain a sufficient following which I expect will be huge at launch -- as always, but won't taper off immediately like many of the recent other Class A releases that were 'failures' such as AOC and WAR, etc.
It will be a must try for many, but I have yet to hear why MMO-fans will continue for years, let alone a year. I expect Star Wars fan will be here for life (2-3 years)-- and there are quite a number of those.
It won't be a failure --but it will not be the game many of us have been looking to find.
Not even for Star Wars fanatics. It will maintain a sufficient following which I expect will be huge at launch -- as always, but won't taper off immediately like many of the recent other Class A releases that were 'failures' such as AOC and WAR, etc.
It will be a must try for many, but I have yet to hear why MMO-fans will continue for years, let alone a year. I expect Star Wars fan will be here for life (2-3 years)-- and there are quite a number of those.
8 class stories, high level flashpoints, raids, warzones, open world PvP lakes? i think that's quite more than enough. There's not one MMO in the past that released with so much amount of content.
It won't be a failure -- but it will not be the game many of us have been looking to find.
Not even for Star Wars fanatics. It will maintain a sufficient following which I expect will be huge at launch -- as always, but won't taper off immediately like many of the recent other Class A releases that were 'failures' such as AOC and WAR, etc.
It will be a must try for many, but I have yet to hear why MMO-fans will continue for years, let alone a year. I expect Star Wars fan will be here for life (2-3 years)-- and there are quite a number of those.
Why did players of WoW play for years? TOR has more content at launch than WoW did at launch. People who think this game will quickly die out due to a lack of content just aren't paying attention. TOR will have more content at launch than AoC and WAR combined, not to mention that both those games died out quickly due to poor launches in which the games were incomplete messes while Bioware seems to be going out of their way to avoid making THAT mistake.
I think it is easier to defned that a game is NOT a WOW clone moreso than whether it IS a clone because a CLONED game would have to be proven to be deliberately copying WOW and not simply applying standards developed by many games that are both MMOs and single or co-op RPGs.
Ok now we are getting somewhere, so a WoW clone would be a deliberate copy of WoW.
This does not exist.
Except if you can objectively prove that a game is a "deliberate" copy, which is impossible unless you can read the minds of the developer or find a memo saying "Bob the developer, copy WoW and be done with it."
I can use any argument (mmo design standards) you use defending TOR for NOT being a wow clone on any other game that someone else would say is a wow-clone.
dont think it will fail and i dont wish it to fail. that being said its still not star wars for me. and any people looking for it to be a swg2 it will not be. if i do end up playing it will be a temp game until a real star wars game comes along.
I think it is easier to defned that a game is NOT a WOW clone moreso than whether it IS a clone because a CLONED game would have to be proven to be deliberately copying WOW and not simply applying standards developed by many games that are both MMOs and single or co-op RPGs.
Ok now we are getting somewhere, so a WoW clone would be a deliberate copy of WoW.
This does not exist.
Except if you can objectively prove that a game is a "deliberate" copy, which is impossible unless you can read the minds of the developer or find a memo saying "Bob the developer, copy WoW and be done with it."
I can use any argument (mmo design standards) you use defending TOR for NOT being a wow clone on any other game that someone else would say is a wow-clone.
i.e. WoW clones do not exists then.
Is Dolly a sheep clone or a WOW clone? Wait I am confused..
I think it is easier to defned that a game is NOT a WOW clone moreso than whether it IS a clone because a CLONED game would have to be proven to be deliberately copying WOW and not simply applying standards developed by many games that are both MMOs and single or co-op RPGs.
Ok now we are getting somewhere, so a WoW clone would be a deliberate copy of WoW.
This does not exist.
Except if you can objectively prove that a game is a "deliberate" copy, which is impossible unless you can read the minds of the developer or find a memo saying "Bob the developer, copy WoW and be done with it."
I can use any argument (mmo design standards) you use defending TOR for NOT being a wow clone on any other game that someone else would say is a wow-clone.
i.e. WoW clones do not exists then.
Well, this is simply my opinion but I honestly don't believe there are ANY WOW clones as Blizzard did not actually invent most of what WOW does and it was not unique, just polished up and well put together for its time.
But this statement alone that I made was out of context. I was actually responding to the statement that TOR is a co-op game and not an MMO and then called a WOW clone in the same paragraph. How can it be a WOW clone (if such a thing exists) if it is not really an MMO?
It won't be a failure -- but it will not be the game many of us have been looking to find.
Not even for Star Wars fanatics. It will maintain a sufficient following which I expect will be huge at launch -- as always, but won't taper off immediately like many of the recent other Class A releases that were 'failures' such as AOC and WAR, etc.
It will be a must try for many, but I have yet to hear why MMO-fans will continue for years, let alone a year. I expect Star Wars fan will be here for life (2-3 years)-- and there are quite a number of those.
Why did players of WoW play for years? TOR has more content at launch than WoW did at launch. People who think this game will quickly die out due to a lack of content just aren't paying attention. TOR will have more content at launch than AoC and WAR combined, not to mention that both those games died out quickly due to poor launches in which the games were incomplete messes while Bioware seems to be going out of their way to avoid making THAT mistake.
Correct me if I mistate this but Bioware has noted a number of things supporting the above. One was that each class has some 200 hours of content outside PVP, social hubs, raids, etc. They also noted that Tatooine alone is the size of 8 zones in World of Warcraft. They said that TOR is the size of all of the Bioware games put together. That is fairly huge.
If the content is quality (being Bioware I am hoping for that) then it should keep people playing for some time.
Comments
No no no, GW2 is a warhammer online, global agenda and LOTRO clone! So from now on we should call it Guild Global Wars Agenda Hammer Online rings.
To produce a copy of; imitate closely
In Bioware we trust!
how closely is "closely"?
is a control-scheme close enough? the setting? story-structure? design-decissions?
this definition is lacking...
Most are. It's all in what you percieve makes it a wow clone, a lot of games can be broken down and have mechanics that are similar to WOW, you could nit pick and say just because it has a similar UI it must be a WOW clone.
In Bioware we trust!
So there is no objective definition of Wow-Clone, making everyone right and wrong at the same time.
After all if my "feeling" is its a wow-clone im as right as you are when you say its "not a wow-clone".
So in the end you can not defend you position that it neither isnt or is a wow-clone making the argument from WoW-Clone pure subjective opinion.
Correct?
Depends, If it failed then you may not see a big budget MMO for a while.
Yes, it has some WOW elements, so does GW2 and many other MMO's out there. You could say a Mercedez is a Model T clone if you want to since they have similar aspects.
In Bioware we trust!
I already saw several idiots saying that game X is a WoW-clone because of the UI it wouldn't surprise me at all. I.E warhammer online was said to be a WoW clone by many and yet they ignored the fact that the game was based around PvP and not PvE.
It tend to ignore all those idiots that say X game is a clone. Every game outhere takes from previous ones or have similar systems and mechanics but there are alot of people who can't see past WoW unfortunately. The fact is that SWTOR will be a different experience than any other MMO outhere, because of the cinematic cutscenes with VO and choices with consequences.
And this game will not fail, it is very simple to understand. Bioware + Star Wars fans = millions, the game seems to be good so it won't fall like previous MMO's. Unless you people only consider a game to be sucessful if it surpasses WoW in subscribers rofl.
To the people that loosely toss out the term, like the person I was responding too, it is ANY MMO that uses ANY standards developed in the MMORPG industry or in many cases standards of single player RPGs particularly in the fantasy genre.
If it has any ONE of these standards many will call it a WOW clone due to the lack of awareness of MMOs and single player RPGS prior to or since WOW.
For example: Most MMOs have a similar UI so many will automatically label a game a WOW clone for that alone. WOW did not invent the UI look and feel it uses. Many games have used the UI style before and since to some degree or another.
Another common but falible comparison are quest givers with something overhead to designate the quest giver. This did not ORIGINATE in WOW as a way to deliver quest or "themepark" style games which may also apply to ingle player RPGs BUT is often used as the SOLE determining factor to claim a game is a WOW clone.
Since I DO NOT use the term WOW clone to define something that uses MMO standards I am not normally in a place to define it. I have done so to clarify my statement.
Incorrect. While it may appear subjective in every way it is the way in which the term is used as a negative conotation that a game is attempting to "copy" the features of WOW as opposed to using MMO industry standards that are not and never have been exclusive to WOW.
I think it is easier to defned that a game is NOT a WOW clone moreso than whether it IS a clone because a CLONED game would have to be proven to be deliberately copying WOW and not simply applying standards developed by many games that are both MMOs and single or co-op RPGs.
After playing Gods and heroes, i really loved the companion system and SWTOR have mooore advanced companion system then gods and heroes and i am looking forward to it. other then that its WoW in space which doesnt bother me at all.
Even if I don't like the game,I don't believe that it will fail because some people labeled it a WoW clone.I see Bioware making a game for the Star Wars fan and RPers because after watching several videos,I feel that they nailed it and the world breathe Star Wars.A lot of people will hate it but a lot will love it because Bioware is building a world and not simply a game with a backdrop.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
Fixed for you.
The question is: Do YOU want the game to fail heroically?
Considering that no one (at least that can talk about it) has played the game, there is no way to say that any of the bullet points mentioned above we be a "fact" or even play into the success (or failure) of SWTOR. Therefore, this is just another negative "hate" thread based upon assumption and not known facts.
Come back after launch and then we'll talk.
Let's party like it is 1863!
Will TOR fail? The answer is no. Bioware never fails
. In all my years of playing Bioware games they have never let me down. Plus from everything I have seen they have nailed the Star Wars setting and got it right. I look forward to the game.
Ahh love Deewee, the guy that has been criticizing and nitpicking everything about TOR since day 1. No it's not SWG 2.0 you can go now.
No it will not fail it will succeed heroically.
It won't be a failure -- but it will not be the game many of us have been looking to find.
Not even for Star Wars fanatics. It will maintain a sufficient following which I expect will be huge at launch -- as always, but won't taper off immediately like many of the recent other Class A releases that were 'failures' such as AOC and WAR, etc.
It will be a must try for many, but I have yet to hear why MMO-fans will continue for years, let alone a year. I expect Star Wars fan will be here for life (2-3 years)-- and there are quite a number of those.
8 class stories, high level flashpoints, raids, warzones, open world PvP lakes? i think that's quite more than enough. There's not one MMO in the past that released with so much amount of content.
Why did players of WoW play for years? TOR has more content at launch than WoW did at launch. People who think this game will quickly die out due to a lack of content just aren't paying attention. TOR will have more content at launch than AoC and WAR combined, not to mention that both those games died out quickly due to poor launches in which the games were incomplete messes while Bioware seems to be going out of their way to avoid making THAT mistake.
Ok now we are getting somewhere, so a WoW clone would be a deliberate copy of WoW.
This does not exist.
Except if you can objectively prove that a game is a "deliberate" copy, which is impossible unless you can read the minds of the developer or find a memo saying "Bob the developer, copy WoW and be done with it."
I can use any argument (mmo design standards) you use defending TOR for NOT being a wow clone on any other game that someone else would say is a wow-clone.
i.e. WoW clones do not exists then.
dont think it will fail and i dont wish it to fail. that being said its still not star wars for me. and any people looking for it to be a swg2 it will not be. if i do end up playing it will be a temp game until a real star wars game comes along.
Is Dolly a sheep clone or a WOW clone? Wait I am confused..
In Bioware we trust!
Well, this is simply my opinion but I honestly don't believe there are ANY WOW clones as Blizzard did not actually invent most of what WOW does and it was not unique, just polished up and well put together for its time.
But this statement alone that I made was out of context. I was actually responding to the statement that TOR is a co-op game and not an MMO and then called a WOW clone in the same paragraph. How can it be a WOW clone (if such a thing exists) if it is not really an MMO?
Correct me if I mistate this but Bioware has noted a number of things supporting the above. One was that each class has some 200 hours of content outside PVP, social hubs, raids, etc. They also noted that Tatooine alone is the size of 8 zones in World of Warcraft. They said that TOR is the size of all of the Bioware games put together. That is fairly huge.
If the content is quality (being Bioware I am hoping for that) then it should keep people playing for some time.