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A very interesting quote on SOE and the future of sandbox gaming.
EndDream
Member Posts: 1,152
Followed is a question and answer from the article on massively talking about the closing of SWG (http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/24/exclusive-smedley-on-the-sunsetting-of-star-wars-galaxies/):
So you don't think that sandboxes (and sandbox systems) are dead for SOE? Will you ever make a new sandbox with SWG's pioneering features?
The answer is... stay tuned on the subject of sandboxes. We're super excited about the future of sandbox gaming. Let me just leave it at that!
This implies that SOE will be making a sandbox game... will it be EQ3??? Perhaps SOE is realizing its not a good idea to directly compete with WoW.
Remember Old School Ultima Online
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An updated graphics / game play EQ1 with more sandbox elements, maybe a random dungeon system sorta like Lost Dungeons was; and I'd be set for the rest of my days. Which are numbered.
Lets just hope it's not anymore Free Realms Bull-S%*t type game they are thinking. I am skeptical SOE can come up with anything new or good again, they only have whats good from the past like EQ, and remaking EQ with EQNext is only possible because 90% of the team involved came from EQ. So it leaves me with some questions as to what they can make to possibly be so great without resorting to developers who are from original projects AKA Everquest.
Free Realms was a tween, teen BS title, if that is what they are capable of making only now it's sad really. What have they made since EQ that was so good? They bought most of the current titles they have now. *Ponders that questions*
Edit: EQ2 doesn't count as that is for carebears and easy mode players via the lava ducts of the casual gamers. EQ2 was built using many from EQ also so it's still a debatable and good question, can they actually make anything decent.
Considering that EQ was basically a themepark with a lot less quests, EQ2 was a themepark through and through, lets just say I'd be really surprised if EQ3 is anything but a themepark game. That doesn't mean they can't make a sandbox game and EQ3 could have some features, but i'm not expecting a tale in the desert sandbox out of it. I'm expecting closer to EQ1 style with more quests.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I said this in another thread.
SWG isnt a SANDBOX.... its a Hybrid.
And Everquest has always been THEMEPARK. it pave the way for current generation of Themeparks. No Everquest = translated= no Current generation of Themeparks, everything would be UO clones.
that sounds terrible. I can see why Everquest took off like it did.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
SWG was a sandbox but after the NGE it became a hybrid. Just needed to correct you on that.
Woah Woah Woah there...
I never said EQ1 was a sandbox. And I think everyone is aware that is paved the way for WoW.
I am saying that the quote by the head decision maker at SOE implies that they will be working on a sandbox game. Also, EQ2, did poorly vs WoW even though it was the premier MMORPG IP at the time. Also, EQ has an older fanbase that your average game. I may be wrong, but I don't think it would be a stretch to say they might take a different approach with EQ3 because they don't want to be in direct competition with WoW AND SWTOR. Why make the same game and loose?
Maybe they are making a sandbox with another IP, it looks like they are making something. I think EQ3 would be a great decision to go with though.
Edit: just want to say that it would have been AWESOME if we were flooded with UO clones right now...
Remember Old School Ultima Online
Wasn't posting about your post. It's all good.
I enjoy sandbox games but I would advise against subscribing to any MMO put out by SOE. MMOs by SOE seem to fall into ruin as the result of greed. This is not to say other companies aren't guilty of the same but SOE almost has it down to an art.
Smedley in that very interview also said he was excited for Star Wars fans getting to play TOR. So Smedley saying, "We're super excited about the future of sandbox gaming. Let me just leave it at that!" could mean anything.
Not sure what you mean.... SWTOR isnt a sandbox by any stretch.
Remember Old School Ultima Online
....and though I am not an SOE hater.....who would really believe anything Smedley has to say at this point. Read what Smedley had to say...check. Grain of Salt.....check.
SOE is irrelevant. Its just a fact.
They're going to have to prove to me that they even understand what a Sandbox game is.
SWG was a hybrid from the start, too much "leveling" like game play to be a true Sandbox. But it did have lots of Sandbox elements, and lots of other good ideas too.
Actually, I went back to it after I just got fed up with UO's changes, but the NGE had hit. I didn't stay long. Had they fixed what they started with, and added from there, I think they'd still be doing fairly well today.
Once upon a time....
Disagree, at the start it was Sand Box, with the introduction of Jedi it turned into a hybryd grinder. At the start, you level your template, and started playing the game. With Jedi is became a hologrind & Jedi grind.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
Exactly this. SWG was a sandbox until publish 9.
Before the Dark Times. Before the Jedi takeover of the game.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
OP you have to know something: there is only one thing SOE is interested in, and that's the $$$ you have in your wallet.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
one more MMO from SOE? I promise one thing: I'll not buy it from such a company of track record even if they manage to produce the best one. They'll surely destroy it becouse of some company politics
You would have to be clinically insane to touch another SOE product, whether it is a sandbox or not.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
And also in reply to these guys....
You are all saying the same thing, that the games are Sandbox, and that my stance on "level grind" is overstated.
I understand your point, but I still disagree. I think when you get into "levels" in advancement, there's a line where it goes too far and removes important aspects of "Sandbox". You guys obviously put that line higher up the bar than I do.
But here's where I come from on this. When skills lead to better swords, or guns, or metal ores (beyond soft, hard, rust resistant, malleable, whatever different properites as in RL), then you get into level advanced things that are only better because the game makes them better because of levels. This screws up "Sandbox". And it starts causing things like "zones for levels", ways to separate players by their level capability. It devalues things only because of this artificial level system added.
You probably don't see this, or agree with it. But I think that's because you see the "game feature" in it. But for a really true "Sandbox", I think we need to change game play from that thinking. It needs to be about the game world instead of levels. It needs to be about what happens in that world instead of levelling up to the next tier.
And I think that makes for a much more exciting experience than level grind. And you have level grind as a core in both SWG and Darkfall. As proof, ask yourselves this. What was your first thing to do in these games? Level up? Any other answer gets a buzzer.
That's my opinion, anyways.
Once upon a time....
planetside style EQ :O
I think the thing you are describing is "tiered content," and I completely agree that tiered content is characteristic of theme parks.
Games can have content for different levels/skill/whatever players and still remain sandboxes. For example, if there is a cave with dragons that should probably only be attempted by high level/skill players, then that doesn't make the game not a sandbox.
On the other hand, when you make the power gap between levels so extreme as to force certain level ranges into certain zones then you get this "tiered content" phenomenon. With this design, most of the world is pretty much "shut off" to the player except for the zones that are close to their level. This is far different from just having content of varying difficulty levels in different places.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Well, yes, but expand that into the arena of other game play. Trade skills is the easiest to understand here. You know, a sword should be a sword. Add magical enhancements, yes, but keep it still a sword, and keep the "levels" of enhancements within reason in that view.
I like a simple percentile system as a base. I think stats should be a big part of that. So start with an ability to hit equal to your dexterity and agility, add weapon skill 1-100 to hit, and subtract targets agility stat and defensive skill (dodge or parry or other...allow a choice here). Have negative and positive modifiers based on gear (both weapon and armor) and circumstances (rear attacks, cover, etc.) and magical influences.
This keeps it simple and intuative, makes it more immersive in a "my character" point of view, and within a range that's more realistic.
Hit Points should not change except with stat increases, and those should be limited too, maybe something like 1.5 times starting point.
Then make the game about the world and what goes on in it, and interactions between players and their clans, guilds, cities, through trade, alliances, etc. And push the boundaries of GM interaction and events.
Once upon a time....
Basically sounds like D&D that uses a D100 instead of a D20 for determining hit/miss
. But yeah that wouldn't be half bad. One of my big gripes with current MMO's is that they make a level 40 basically inconceivably stronger than a level 30 and force players into these "tiers." It sounds like your system doesn't have these huge power gaps.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?