So you're saying the player bases can never be compared due to different revenue models? And yet the MMO community compares them all the time.
As far as active numbers go yes I can log into SWTOR and then GW2 and say one or the other has more players playing at the time. However that is not indicative of the success of the overall game.
Here's the simple difference between the two, a F2P or B2p is bound to have more players playing, this has always been the case. Just look at games that went from being Sub based to F2P. The barrier of entry is lowered thus more people enter. It's really that simple.
Of course the metrics in which they are judged are also different with F2p or B2P, as no account ever becomes inactive. They're always active, and will be for the lifespan of the game. This is not the case in a sub based game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
I played the original Guild Wars for 5+ years and still doing so. The original Guild Wars has considerably less content than what GW2 offers. So it is pretty much a no-brainer millions of fans will continue to play GW2 for many years just like they did with the original.
GW2 brings dynamic events, personal story, a beautiful world to play in and it does not copy WoW. The Guild Wars ip is really popular now and lets be honest, the Rytlock dungeon intro was more appleaing than anything TOR has shown thus far.
The Return trailer puts that trailer to shame.
.... a CGI trailer by Blur put that to shame? Yeah, it did. It was phenomenal. Sadly, I can't play a game that looks like that CGI trailer.
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
The number 1 feature of GW2 to me is its payment modelbecause it is representative of the company's philosophy for which I hold the utmost respect.That, and I have never played a game that cost $15/mo to play that was more fun or engaging than GW, so why should I now?
If you neglect to acknowledge why someone might have voted the way they did in that poll, you are doomed to never understand what makes GW so beloved by its fans, nor whatever measure of success GW2 ultimately attains. But do carry on.
The philosphy of "Our game isn't worth a montly fee, but lets pretend that we have some greater, more noble purpose in being B2p? Is that what you're talking about?
I'm sorry, but GW1 sucked. I paid only 7 bucks for my copy, adding to their overinflated sales figures, and I feel I paid far too much.
Its more the philosphy of "We want to prove that a subscription is unnecessary for a great game".
And just because you didn't like GW1 didn't mean it sucked.
That's correct, GW1 sucked regardless of wether I liked it or not, thus laughing thin the face of their own philosophy.
God yes GW1 sucked. And people use GW1 as the example of how arenanet makes great games, yet Bioware, who have made numerous GOTY games, gets this "They can't make an MMO, they only have made singe player games" which is a lie. Heck GW1 was basically a single player load fest.
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
I played the original Guild Wars for 5+ years and still doing so. The original Guild Wars has considerably less content than what GW2 offers. So it is pretty much a no-brainer millions of fans will continue to play GW2 for many years just like they did with the original.
GW2 brings dynamic events, personal story, a beautiful world to play in and it does not copy WoW. The Guild Wars ip is really popular now and lets be honest, the Rytlock dungeon intro was more appleaing than anything TOR has shown thus far.
The Return trailer puts that trailer to shame.
.... a CGI trailer by Blur put that to shame? Yeah, it did. It was phenomenal. Sadly, I can't play a game that looks like that CGI trailer.
He said the dungeon video, which only showed minor gameplay, which just looked like a bunch od DBZ particle effects and people just standing around.
I played the original Guild Wars for 5+ years and still doing so. The original Guild Wars has considerably less content than what GW2 offers. So it is pretty much a no-brainer millions of fans will continue to play GW2 for many years just like they did with the original.
GW2 brings dynamic events, personal story, a beautiful world to play in and it does not copy WoW. The Guild Wars ip is really popular now and lets be honest, the Rytlock dungeon intro was more appleaing than anything TOR has shown thus far.
The Return trailer puts that trailer to shame.
The "trailer" he speaks of is actually a cutscene, so comparing the two is not quite fair. Maybe if GW2 had a trailer like that we could compare but we don't so... yea....
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
The number 1 feature of GW2 to me is its payment modelbecause it is representative of the company's philosophy for which I hold the utmost respect.That, and I have never played a game that cost $15/mo to play that was more fun or engaging than GW, so why should I now?
If you neglect to acknowledge why someone might have voted the way they did in that poll, you are doomed to never understand what makes GW so beloved by its fans, nor whatever measure of success GW2 ultimately attains. But do carry on.
The philosphy of "Our game isn't worth a montly fee, but lets pretend that we have some greater, more noble purpose in being B2p? Is that what you're talking about?
I'm sorry, but GW1 sucked. I paid only 7 bucks for my copy, adding to their overinflated sales figures, and I feel I paid far too much.
Its more the philosphy of "We want to prove that a subscription is unnecessary for a great game".
And just because you didn't like GW1 didn't mean it sucked.
That's correct, GW1 sucked regardless of wether I liked it or not, thus laughing thin the face of their own philosophy.
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
I played the original Guild Wars for 5+ years and still doing so. The original Guild Wars has considerably less content than what GW2 offers. So it is pretty much a no-brainer millions of fans will continue to play GW2 for many years just like they did with the original.
GW2 brings dynamic events, personal story, a beautiful world to play in and it does not copy WoW. The Guild Wars ip is really popular now and lets be honest, the Rytlock dungeon intro was more appleaing than anything TOR has shown thus far.
The Return trailer puts that trailer to shame.
.... a CGI trailer by Blur put that to shame? Yeah, it did. It was phenomenal. Sadly, I can't play a game that looks like that CGI trailer.
He said the dungeon video, which only showed minor gameplay, which just looked like a bunch od DBZ particle effects and people just standing around.
Everything from ArenaNet has been in-game footage. There is no gimmick here to get people excited about a flashy trailer just to get a subscription.
Sadly all this is going to cause is GW2 to come under even bigger attack then it already is, having people nitpicking everything and GW2 coming out in front.
GW2 has gotten some flak over time but it's been pretty clear when people had SW:ToR to look at. Now that GW2 is getting more of the limelight now, the people who like to go after the big dog as it appears will just try and tear it down.
All this accomplish in doing is causing hard feelings and now people will go after GW2 even more then they normally would. Which means fans of that game are going to be defending the game over a graphic flickering in the background.
IT will make my talking about that one video where all the people stood still seem minor in comparision to the problems this game will have when it trys and goes into the limelight.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Should I list all of Bioware's awards? I am sure I would run out of room.
As soon as somebody says 'Bioware's older games sucked', and tries to pass it off as some sort of objective standard, then yes. Please do. Feel free to start collating them so you can cut and paste it when that happens.
Until then, please don't, because then it's some sort of weird 'my game company has a larger wang than yours' kind of contest, and that would personally make me feel uncomfortable. The list of awards was a response to 'GW1 sucks', not as a method of proving Bioware sucks.
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
I played the original Guild Wars for 5+ years and still doing so. The original Guild Wars has considerably less content than what GW2 offers. So it is pretty much a no-brainer millions of fans will continue to play GW2 for many years just like they did with the original.
GW2 brings dynamic events, personal story, a beautiful world to play in and it does not copy WoW. The Guild Wars ip is really popular now and lets be honest, the Rytlock dungeon intro was more appleaing than anything TOR has shown thus far.
The Return trailer puts that trailer to shame.
.... a CGI trailer by Blur put that to shame? Yeah, it did. It was phenomenal. Sadly, I can't play a game that looks like that CGI trailer.
He said the dungeon video, which only showed minor gameplay, which just looked like a bunch od DBZ particle effects and people just standing around.
What are you even talking about? Re-read and try again, because you are not referring to the correct anything.
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
I played the original Guild Wars for 5+ years and still doing so. The original Guild Wars has considerably less content than what GW2 offers. So it is pretty much a no-brainer millions of fans will continue to play GW2 for many years just like they did with the original.
GW2 brings dynamic events, personal story, a beautiful world to play in and it does not copy WoW. The Guild Wars ip is really popular now and lets be honest, the Rytlock dungeon intro was more appleaing than anything TOR has shown thus far.
The Return trailer puts that trailer to shame.
.... a CGI trailer by Blur put that to shame? Yeah, it did. It was phenomenal. Sadly, I can't play a game that looks like that CGI trailer.
He said the dungeon video, which only showed minor gameplay, which just looked like a bunch od DBZ particle effects and people just standing around.
Everything from ArenaNet has been in-game footage. There is no gimmick here to get people excited about a flashy trailer just to get a subscription.
How is a flashy trailer any different from publishing a book that tries to get people excited just to get them to buy a game? Unfortunately for GW2, the TOR books were also superior. Only read the first GW2 book, couldn't get myself to read the second.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Sadly all this is going to cause is GW2 to come under even bigger attack then it already is, having people nitpicking everything and GW2 coming out in front.
GW2 has gotten some flak over time but it's been pretty clear when people had SW:ToR to look at. Now that GW2 is getting more of the limelight now, the people who like to go after the big dog as it appears will just try and tear it down.
All this accomplish in doing is causing hard feelings and now people will go after GW2 even more then they normally would. Which means fans of that game are going to be defending the game over a graphic flickering in the background.
IT will make my talking about that one video where all the people stood still seem minor in comparision to the problems this game will have when it trys and goes into the limelight.
... but you'll come running to defend GW2 because it's so unfair when SW:ToR is picked on for stupid stuff, so you know the feeling, right?
I knew you would. Comrades in arms! I say good things about SW:ToR, you know.
God yes GW1 sucked. And people use GW1 as the example of how arenanet makes great games, yet Bioware, who have made numerous GOTY games, gets this "They can't make an MMO, they only have made singe player games" which is a lie. Heck GW1 was basically a single player load fest.
Oh so then if I say DA2 sucks and that proves TOR will suck and that Bioware is becoming a failed company, you would accept that as true. After all you TOR fans want everyone to take your opinion of ANet as fact, well then you need to take this as fact too. Or are you a hypocrite that is just defending his love child of a game?
Bioware has Numerous GOTY games with millions of box sales, Arenanet has made 1 game with expansions. I will take Bioware's track record any day over arenanet.
God yes GW1 sucked. And people use GW1 as the example of how arenanet makes great games, yet Bioware, who have made numerous GOTY games, gets this "They can't make an MMO, they only have made singe player games" which is a lie. Heck GW1 was basically a single player load fest.
Oh so then if I say DA2 sucks and that proves TOR will suck and that Bioware is becoming a failed company, you would accept that as true. After all you TOR fans want everyone to take your opinion of ANet as fact, well then you need to take this as fact too. Or are you a hypocrite that is just defending his love child of a game?
Bioware has Numerous GOTY games with millions of box sales, Arenanet has made 1 game with expansions. I will take Bioware's track record any day over arenanet.
ArenaNet is nothing but a division within NCSoft... and look at all the amazing games they produce!
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
I played the original Guild Wars for 5+ years and still doing so. The original Guild Wars has considerably less content than what GW2 offers. So it is pretty much a no-brainer millions of fans will continue to play GW2 for many years just like they did with the original.
GW2 brings dynamic events, personal story, a beautiful world to play in and it does not copy WoW. The Guild Wars ip is really popular now and lets be honest, the Rytlock dungeon intro was more appleaing than anything TOR has shown thus far.
The Return trailer puts that trailer to shame.
.... a CGI trailer by Blur put that to shame? Yeah, it did. It was phenomenal. Sadly, I can't play a game that looks like that CGI trailer.
He said the dungeon video, which only showed minor gameplay, which just looked like a bunch od DBZ particle effects and people just standing around.
Everything from ArenaNet has been in-game footage. There is no gimmick here to get people excited about a flashy trailer just to get a subscription.
Ok then just watch the Eternity Vault trailer that has in game footage it looks more action packed then what I saw in that trailer.
Sadly all this is going to cause is GW2 to come under even bigger attack then it already is, having people nitpicking everything and GW2 coming out in front.
GW2 has gotten some flak over time but it's been pretty clear when people had SW:ToR to look at. Now that GW2 is getting more of the limelight now, the people who like to go after the big dog as it appears will just try and tear it down.
All this accomplish in doing is causing hard feelings and now people will go after GW2 even more then they normally would. Which means fans of that game are going to be defending the game over a graphic flickering in the background.
IT will make my talking about that one video where all the people stood still seem minor in comparision to the problems this game will have when it trys and goes into the limelight.
Unlike the other games that had these "problems" most of the information about GW2 is readily available to the average fan and I believe every one of those fans has enough information and liiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnkssss to back up whatever they say. So in truth no matter how many flak shooters arise, all you'll need is a link and a video and you're done. If that doesn't work, then we know those people are beyond saving.
God yes GW1 sucked. And people use GW1 as the example of how arenanet makes great games, yet Bioware, who have made numerous GOTY games, gets this "They can't make an MMO, they only have made singe player games" which is a lie. Heck GW1 was basically a single player load fest.
Oh so then if I say DA2 sucks and that proves TOR will suck and that Bioware is becoming a failed company, you would accept that as true. After all you TOR fans want everyone to take your opinion of ANet as fact, well then you need to take this as fact too. Or are you a hypocrite that is just defending his love child of a game?
Bioware has Numerous GOTY games with millions of box sales, Arenanet has made 1 game with expansions. I will take Bioware's track record any day over arenanet.
By all means, DO THAT. No, seriously, TAKE IT.
You'll note that no-one here is claiming that Bioware sucks. It's only the lashing out of SW:TOR fans who have to fill this thread with negative (and spurious, and disingenuous) comments about their assumed competitor. It's only SW:TOR fans who are treating this as a zero-sum game.
Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
It's also the same guy who has several statements of his been debunked as false or incorrect, among those debunked statements the 300 million dollar budget claim he made, which makes him as unreliable a source and fortune teller (bc of his emotional, embittered ranting) as you can get.
It does make him unreliable source but as it turns out it seems even the unreliable can be true sometimes too.
True, every broken clock can be right twice a day, just like any madman can say some words that sound right once in a while.
I don't make it a habit to daily listen to madmen for advice or wisdom though, and I'm even pretty cautious regarding people who do have that habit.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
God yes GW1 sucked. And people use GW1 as the example of how arenanet makes great games, yet Bioware, who have made numerous GOTY games, gets this "They can't make an MMO, they only have made singe player games" which is a lie. Heck GW1 was basically a single player load fest.
Oh so then if I say DA2 sucks and that proves TOR will suck and that Bioware is becoming a failed company, you would accept that as true. After all you TOR fans want everyone to take your opinion of ANet as fact, well then you need to take this as fact too. Or are you a hypocrite that is just defending his love child of a game?
Bioware has Numerous GOTY games with millions of box sales, Arenanet has made 1 game with expansions. I will take Bioware's track record any day over arenanet.
Hey, if any of those GOTYs include a CO-RPG that can be considered an MMO then let me know.
Comments
As far as active numbers go yes I can log into SWTOR and then GW2 and say one or the other has more players playing at the time. However that is not indicative of the success of the overall game.
Here's the simple difference between the two, a F2P or B2p is bound to have more players playing, this has always been the case. Just look at games that went from being Sub based to F2P. The barrier of entry is lowered thus more people enter. It's really that simple.
Of course the metrics in which they are judged are also different with F2p or B2P, as no account ever becomes inactive. They're always active, and will be for the lifespan of the game. This is not the case in a sub based game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
.... a CGI trailer by Blur put that to shame? Yeah, it did. It was phenomenal. Sadly, I can't play a game that looks like that CGI trailer.
God yes GW1 sucked. And people use GW1 as the example of how arenanet makes great games, yet Bioware, who have made numerous GOTY games, gets this "They can't make an MMO, they only have made singe player games" which is a lie. Heck GW1 was basically a single player load fest.
In Bioware we trust!
He said the dungeon video, which only showed minor gameplay, which just looked like a bunch od DBZ particle effects and people just standing around.
In Bioware we trust!
The "trailer" he speaks of is actually a cutscene, so comparing the two is not quite fair. Maybe if GW2 had a trailer like that we could compare but we don't so... yea....
This is not a game.
I think I've come up with a fair impartial way to determine which MMO 'beats' the other.
In 6 years, do a google search of 'GW2 clone' vs. 'SW:ToR clone'.
Whichever game gets the most hits wins.
... they also lose.
Should I list all of Bioware's awards? I am sure I would run out of room.
In Bioware we trust!
Everything from ArenaNet has been in-game footage. There is no gimmick here to get people excited about a flashy trailer just to get a subscription.
Sadly all this is going to cause is GW2 to come under even bigger attack then it already is, having people nitpicking everything and GW2 coming out in front.
GW2 has gotten some flak over time but it's been pretty clear when people had SW:ToR to look at. Now that GW2 is getting more of the limelight now, the people who like to go after the big dog as it appears will just try and tear it down.
All this accomplish in doing is causing hard feelings and now people will go after GW2 even more then they normally would. Which means fans of that game are going to be defending the game over a graphic flickering in the background.
IT will make my talking about that one video where all the people stood still seem minor in comparision to the problems this game will have when it trys and goes into the limelight.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
This all from Prophecies only I believe.
But of course you would list all awards from Bioware games. Just like how you have to compare an in-game cutscene to a CGI trailer. Derp.
As soon as somebody says 'Bioware's older games sucked', and tries to pass it off as some sort of objective standard, then yes. Please do. Feel free to start collating them so you can cut and paste it when that happens.
Until then, please don't, because then it's some sort of weird 'my game company has a larger wang than yours' kind of contest, and that would personally make me feel uncomfortable. The list of awards was a response to 'GW1 sucks', not as a method of proving Bioware sucks.
What are you even talking about? Re-read and try again, because you are not referring to the correct anything.
How is a flashy trailer any different from publishing a book that tries to get people excited just to get them to buy a game? Unfortunately for GW2, the TOR books were also superior. Only read the first GW2 book, couldn't get myself to read the second.
I was also talking about the flashpoint and Operations videos as well, not the CG trailer, in my former post, just to make it clear.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Are you saying there isn't an abundance of SWTOR gameplay to see?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
... but you'll come running to defend GW2 because it's so unfair when SW:ToR is picked on for stupid stuff, so you know the feeling, right?
I knew you would. Comrades in arms! I say good things about SW:ToR, you know.
Bioware has Numerous GOTY games with millions of box sales, Arenanet has made 1 game with expansions. I will take Bioware's track record any day over arenanet.
In Bioware we trust!
Don't even start. He just wanted to prove that GW1 wasn't a failure.
ArenaNet is nothing but a division within NCSoft... and look at all the amazing games they produce!
Ok then just watch the Eternity Vault trailer that has in game footage it looks more action packed then what I saw in that trailer.
In Bioware we trust!
Unlike the other games that had these "problems" most of the information about GW2 is readily available to the average fan and I believe every one of those fans has enough information and liiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnkssss to back up whatever they say. So in truth no matter how many flak shooters arise, all you'll need is a link and a video and you're done. If that doesn't work, then we know those people are beyond saving.
This is not a game.
By all means, DO THAT. No, seriously, TAKE IT.
You'll note that no-one here is claiming that Bioware sucks. It's only the lashing out of SW:TOR fans who have to fill this thread with negative (and spurious, and disingenuous) comments about their assumed competitor. It's only SW:TOR fans who are treating this as a zero-sum game.
True, every broken clock can be right twice a day, just like any madman can say some words that sound right once in a while.
I don't make it a habit to daily listen to madmen for advice or wisdom though, and I'm even pretty cautious regarding people who do have that habit.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Hey, if any of those GOTYs include a CO-RPG that can be considered an MMO then let me know.
This is not a game.
It really hurts my feelings to realize that even though you're reading our posts, you're not actually listening to any of us.