Truth be told, Biowares games never get into the detail of emotional conflict, of situations where "you can only go wrong, there is no right" or explore at least the protagonists closest NPCs' motivations, why they do things, they don't even DO things that surprise you. All the NPCs are shallow cliché substitutes, they're rock solid and not ever hesitating for seconds.
M
I disagree.
In Mass Effect one of the character "Garrus" disliked how C-Sec was handleing, and thus he dicided to join up with you in order to do things his own way, as you talk with him you find out why he hates doing things by they book and you see his motavations behind his "Shoot first ask questions later" way of thinking.
Games like The Witcher its easy to go into more depth over the main character simple because you don't get to edit your background in the Witcher, (Never played the game myself) thus if your shepard is an War Hero from earth, your motavatoins are going to be different then a shepard who was a colonist sole surviver.
DAO: your stripped of all your armour, awakening in a prison cell. Your character is powerless.
You find yourself in a Dream state, how do you get out?
Morrigan wants you to kill her mother. What will happen?
KOTOR: you are a Jedi in training.....then you begin to remember your dark past....
Your good friend Bastilla turns to the darkside, can you turn her back?
Jade Empire: Your struggle the whole game to free your master from captivity, only to find hes something totally unexpecrted.
"who are these enemys"
ME: you touch the Conduit and some piece of vision appears of some vast society that returns every millenium to purge the worlds of civilization.
ME2: what are these bee things attacking people? Collectors?
DA 1+2: who are these darkspawn? Who is the Darkspawn leader?
KOTOR 1+2: former friends turned Sith
Well first off, you know you CAN kill everyone in the room and not get arrested? Least that's what I did and I was welcomed back like a hero, so nice, thanks BIoware for not caring about me butchering 20 police officers in broad daylight... => And well, what happens is: You dungeon crawl through, kill the a boss, and oh joy, you all get up healthy and awake. How unexpected. And Morrigan: You can go there and kill Flemeth. Period. Now that's a surprise, wow.
And saying "it's all been done before" is just not true. Any one of you seen "A serbian movie"? That had not been done before and people said "torture porn" had gone anywhere it could. Or "a slim chance", a croatian short movie about a war veteran returning to his family, so emotionally intense (without a single scene of violence in it) that it made me cry, not wet my eye, cry like a baby (and I didn't cry over "a serbian movie"). Not done before.
Now I don't expect fat burger-laden geeks in full A/Ced uptown offices to come up with anything artisticly valuable. But claiming they... well, I'd repeat myself, they're producing cheap magazine fiction, at the very least they don't reach me emotionally, at all.
DAO: your stripped of all your armour, awakening in a prison cell. Your character is powerless.
You find yourself in a Dream state, how do you get out?
Morrigan wants you to kill her mother. What will happen?
KOTOR: you are a Jedi in training.....then you begin to remember your dark past....
Your good friend Bastilla turns to the darkside, can you turn her back?
Jade Empire: Your struggle the whole game to free your master from captivity, only to find hes something totally unexpecrted.
"who are these enemys"
ME: you touch the Conduit and some piece of vision appears of some vast society that returns every millenium to purge the worlds of civilization.
ME2: what are these bee things attacking people? Collectors?
DA 1+2: who are these darkspawn? Who is the Darkspawn leader?
KOTOR 1+2: former friends turned Sith
Well first off, you know you CAN kill everyone in the room and not get arrested? Least that's what I did and I was welcomed back like a hero, so nice, thanks BIoware for not caring about me butchering 20 police officers in broad daylight... => And well, what happens is: You dungeon crawl through, kill the a boss, and oh joy, you all get up healthy and awake. How unexpected. And Morrigan: You can go there and kill Flemeth. Period. Now that's a surprise, wow.
And saying "it's all been done before" is just not true. Any one of you seen "A serbian movie"? That had not been done before and people said "torture porn" had gone anywhere it could. Or "a slim chance", a croatian short movie about a war veteran returning to his family, so emotionally intense (without a single scene of violence in it) that it made me cry, not wet my eye, cry like a baby (and I didn't cry over "a serbian movie"). Not done before.
Now I don't expect fat burger-laden geeks in full A/Ced uptown offices to come up with anything artisticly valuable. But claiming they... well, I'd repeat myself, they're producing cheap magazine fiction, at the very least they don't reach me emotionally, at all.
M
A movie about a soldier suffering at home over a war?
I'm not "amazed" by Bioware's stories. I just like playing through them with the excellent game play that also seems to accompany the stories. Take out all the story and I would still like the gameplay. The story is just a great addition imo.
It's funny to me, but bioware/ea have been putting a lot of rhetoric out about their massively multimillion dollar game. It's all rhetoric though, if there i something new that this game offers they haven't shown or talked or written about it yet to the public.
No doubt the game will be spit pollished to an insain degree, and will be great for what it does do. It will no doubt be a mishmash clone of other mmorpgs that came before it.
So back to the topic of the thread, my response to that is;
I'm not "amazed" by Bioware's stories. I just like playing through them with the excellent game play that also seems to accompany the stories. Take out all the story and I would still like the gameplay. The story is just a great addition imo.
Exactly, that's why these games are good. Streamlined action, some adventure, looting stuff, and some easily digestible story as the icing on the cake. Perfectly fine. Like watching the newest Terminator movie *g*
Storytelling in general is very easy to predict. I always find that I am able to predict the outcome of pretty much every movie, book or game long before the end. That doesn't mean that I don't enjoy them. The same can be said for Bioware's stories. Sure, I usually know what is going to happen, but I still very much enjoy the ride.
In the case of KOTOR, I actually had no idea that the plot twist was going to happen the first time around and I was very satisfied as a result. It is still one of my favorite games EVER, so you can imagine I am pretty excited for SWTOR.
Basically it comes down to this: If you don't enjoy Bioware's stories, I suggest that you just don't play this game. It is clearly not going to be enjoyable for you.
DAO: your stripped of all your armour, awakening in a prison cell. Your character is powerless.
You find yourself in a Dream state, how do you get out?
Morrigan wants you to kill her mother. What will happen?
KOTOR: you are a Jedi in training.....then you begin to remember your dark past....
Your good friend Bastilla turns to the darkside, can you turn her back?
Jade Empire: Your struggle the whole game to free your master from captivity, only to find hes something totally unexpecrted.
"who are these enemys"
ME: you touch the Conduit and some piece of vision appears of some vast society that returns every millenium to purge the worlds of civilization.
ME2: what are these bee things attacking people? Collectors?
DA 1+2: who are these darkspawn? Who is the Darkspawn leader?
KOTOR 1+2: former friends turned Sith
Well first off, you know you CAN kill everyone in the room and not get arrested? Least that's what I did and I was welcomed back like a hero, so nice, thanks BIoware for not caring about me butchering 20 police officers in broad daylight... => And well, what happens is: You dungeon crawl through, kill the a boss, and oh joy, you all get up healthy and awake. How unexpected. And Morrigan: You can go there and kill Flemeth. Period. Now that's a surprise, wow.
And saying "it's all been done before" is just not true. Any one of you seen "A serbian movie"? That had not been done before and people said "torture porn" had gone anywhere it could. Or "a slim chance", a croatian short movie about a war veteran returning to his family, so emotionally intense (without a single scene of violence in it) that it made me cry, not wet my eye, cry like a baby (and I didn't cry over "a serbian movie"). Not done before.
Now I don't expect fat burger-laden geeks in full A/Ced uptown offices to come up with anything artisticly valuable. But claiming they... well, I'd repeat myself, they're producing cheap magazine fiction, at the very least they don't reach me emotionally, at all.
M
A Serbian Movie was not original in plot/story which is the point of the thread.
It's believed by many that all stories that have been told, have been told. It's an age old question in cinema and literature. All you can do, is give the actors a new hat, and have them have the same Drama in different settings and under differnet circumstances.
A lot of people in this thread are talking out of their buttocks. To really understand what is going on with Bioware's stories is that they are interactive story. No, Mass Effect is not Catcher in the Rye in space, and thank the flying spagetti monster for that.
It's a well understood notion that gaming fiction is not very good. The best stories tend to come from those that don't blast their audience, like Fumito Ueda (Ico, Shadow of the Colossus). A story can be told without words, instead of hammering down one liners.
But what do you expect, when we live in a world, where Inception is considered smart and intelligent?
I wouldn't ever go as far to say amazed, but they usually keep me playing, and continuously without losing interest enough to pop in another game in before it's complete.
There are still some games I still havn't gotten through due to lack of interest, some started 5-6years ago, and I can't say i've ever not finished a Bioware game (out of the one's I have played anyways).
But what do you expect, when we live in a world, where Inception is considered smart and intelligent?
QFT! lol
I could not believe people thought it's plot was so confusing, and that it required multiple viewings, especially when they spend the entire movie EXPLAINING it all to you!
To the OP - I have to ask. Do you actually follow any of the stories, or do you just click through the cutscenes / quest text as quickly as possible to get on with splatting things?
You have to actually follow the story to immerse yourself in it. If you dont even read the story, how can you possibly enjoy it
Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom
There's only 3 themes after all, when it comes to music, litteracy, movies... Life, Death and Time.. After more than 3000 years of creation, mankind do need to revisit old stuff to make it seem new..
And yes, I do think that Bioware is generally doing a good job with their stories.. I loved Kotor and am hoping for the same quality from TOR..
DAO: your stripped of all your armour, awakening in a prison cell. Your character is powerless.
You find yourself in a Dream state, how do you get out?
Morrigan wants you to kill her mother. What will happen?
KOTOR: you are a Jedi in training.....then you begin to remember your dark past....
Your good friend Bastilla turns to the darkside, can you turn her back?
Jade Empire: Your struggle the whole game to free your master from captivity, only to find hes something totally unexpecrted.
"who are these enemys"
ME: you touch the Conduit and some piece of vision appears of some vast society that returns every millenium to purge the worlds of civilization.
ME2: what are these bee things attacking people? Collectors?
DA 1+2: who are these darkspawn? Who is the Darkspawn leader?
KOTOR 1+2: former friends turned Sith
Well first off, you know you CAN kill everyone in the room and not get arrested? Least that's what I did and I was welcomed back like a hero, so nice, thanks BIoware for not caring about me butchering 20 police officers in broad daylight... => And well, what happens is: You dungeon crawl through, kill the a boss, and oh joy, you all get up healthy and awake. How unexpected. And Morrigan: You can go there and kill Flemeth. Period. Now that's a surprise, wow.
And saying "it's all been done before" is just not true. Any one of you seen "A serbian movie"? That had not been done before and people said "torture porn" had gone anywhere it could. Or "a slim chance", a croatian short movie about a war veteran returning to his family, so emotionally intense (without a single scene of violence in it) that it made me cry, not wet my eye, cry like a baby (and I didn't cry over "a serbian movie"). Not done before.
Now I don't expect fat burger-laden geeks in full A/Ced uptown offices to come up with anything artisticly valuable. But claiming they... well, I'd repeat myself, they're producing cheap magazine fiction, at the very least they don't reach me emotionally, at all.
M
A Serbian Movie was not original in plot/story which is the point of the thread.
It's believed by many that all stories that have been told, have been told. It's an age old question in cinema and literature. All you can do, is give the actors a new hat, and have them have the same Drama in different settings and under differnet circumstances.
A lot of people in this thread are talking out of their buttocks. To really understand what is going on with Bioware's stories is that they are interactive story. No, Mass Effect is not Catcher in the Rye in space, and thank the flying spagetti monster for that.
It's a well understood notion that gaming fiction is not very good. The best stories tend to come from those that don't blast their audience, like Fumito Ueda (Ico, Shadow of the Colossus). A story can be told without words, instead of hammering down one liners.
But what do you expect, when we live in a world, where Inception is considered smart and intelligent?
Well, I think it was (A serbian movie). At least it had moments (I wont go into details for PEGI-reasons) where I sat there, awestruck, wondering if they are _actually_ depicting THIS right now. It was not sensational plotwise, but it took twists, for example the ending scene, that you just didn't expect, nobody did (from the people I watched it with, which I'd call ... erm "my special stomach-hardened horror friends")
And if anything had been told, how come trash-movies like "the human centipede" rake in so much attention. In my opinion, because there _are_ some ideas that just have not yet been told and people have not yet come up with. Sure, the director constructed a trash, predictable movie around it, but the original idea was genuine, inspired maybe, but genuine.
It is unfortunate that i have to refer to the horror-genre all the time, but sociodramas and horror movies are the only ones I have a certain degree of experience with and I can sincerely say that in these genres, there have been plenty of interesting, genuine ideas during the last decade.
And concerning the last line. Inception is a hollywood movie. I really don't expect anything from anyone who considers mainstream movies smart and intelligent. They're not, success and depth mostly exclude each other...
To the OP - I have to ask. Do you actually follow any of the stories, or do you just click through the cutscenes / quest text as quickly as possible to get on with splatting things?
You have to actually follow the story to immerse yourself in it. If you dont even read the story, how can you possibly enjoy it
I always read the text and watch the cut scenes. I try to pick the answer that's most aligned with the light side--my character screen in KOTOR had a super bright glowing background lol. I didn't finish the game because it glitched on me--not sure if my disc was damaged (rather old) or if it's because I was playing it on the 360.
Some of the posters here have done a great job of describing how they view Bioware's games(story-wise), and many have said it better than I could. I guess my question sounds too "anti-Bioware", but I just don't see (based on my experience with KOTOR & ME) how they got the reputation for being "amazing" storytellers--so much so, that they developed their MMO around it...it's like not only do the consumers believe they are great in this regard, but they also feel it's their strong point--I had to know if this really is the general consensus (especially after reading those webcomics, that I'm guessing are setting the stage for the story we're about to experience).
Someone posted a link to a video about ME2. I've played and beaten both ME & ME2. At the beginning of ME2 you're asked a bunch of questions about what happened in ME...I couldn't remember any of it so I guessed. Watching that video about ME2, I was like "Oh yeah, that's what that game was about"--I had completely forgotten most of it as well. I've never replayed either of them. KOTOR I had started on the old XBOX but never completed, but maybe a year and a half ago I decided to play it all the way through (trying to get in the right frame of mind for this game)...so I put it in my 360 and fired it up--it got beyond the reveal and then glitched--couldn't play further. I did not "hate" or even dislike these stories--they just didn't make an impression on me that I would equate Bioware with "amazing/immersive/great story"--rather, it was Bioware with "choice of dialog"...it wasn't enough to make me replay the games to see "what if I said this instead of that". Now, I've replayed "The Force Unleashed" about 5 or 6 times--not because of the story, but because at max level, sometimes you just want to be a bad mutha....!!!! LOL
And I guess that's why I can't dismiss concerns people have over "story" being a long term motivator for playing this game. I think Bioware envisions people replaying other classes for the story, or trying their class again, but making different light/dark choices--I'm almost positive that some will in fact do that--if it's that great of a story, I might as well--but given my experience with these types of games, I'll be lucky if I remember half of the story.
I hope this game will be a huge success, and because I don't have much (other than it's star wars) to hang my expectations on, I'm really hoping it's crazy fun--but if it's not my thing, one thing is for sure, for those of you that are fans of Bioware and it's story-driven attempt at an MMORPG, if it's not as popular as they'd hoped it would be...I hope and pray that they don't ruin your game to make it appeal to the less-story crowd.
I understand what you're saying Scout, but I look at it a bit differently. I don't connect "memorable" with "good" just because remembering what happened in each game has nothing to do with the quality of storytelling to me. It just means my memory is terrible sometimes. It seems like you are saying because it wasn't memorable, it must've not been very good even though you didn't stop playing it. I can remember the fun I had without connecting it to a specific plot development.
When I play a Bioware game, I really enjoy it and get immersed in it. I know I won't remember it a year from now (or a week from now for that matter), nor will I have any interest at all in replaying their games. I completely enjoy it and feel I get my money's worth from one immersive playthrough, then I move on to another game. I also know that after playing KOTOR, ME, DA, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Nevewinter Nights, etc. that I'll likely have a great experience every time I play their games, albeit unmemorable for personal reasons. I connect the experience with what I felt was a great immersive story at the time, otherwise I would've just quit and read a book.
It kinda feels like you are wondering why you're not enjoying it in the same way others enjoy it, even though you are enjoying their games enough to complete each of the games you've played, read comics based on their stories, buy and play sequels... They really couldn't be doing a better job if they have you buying and reading everything they make lol I wouldn't worry about how others play it or enjoy it, which seems like a recurring theme in your comments. You don't need to have the desire to play it a couple times to see different outcomes, or remember the story in great detail for it to be a fun story. That's one of the other great things I connect with Bioware is giving you choices with how you want to play it. There are a lot of games out there that if you play the first ten minutes and don't enjoy it, you won't ever play it again because it's just torturous with no alternate paths. If you enjoyed one playthrough and feel it was worth the purchase then that is all that is important and Bioware must be doing something right, whether it be via storytelling, entertaining mini games, character development, entertaining cutscenes or music, etc.
I've read a lot of great books too, but I couldn't write a single book review on any of them without going back to remind myself of the plot. I still follow certain authors though because all I need to know is it kept me reading till the end and I walked away satisfied and ready to read the next book in the series. The only times I would question the author's storytelling ability is if I never made it past the first chapter and never went back to it again. We're all going to have different opinions on the quality of the storytelling, but you don't need to be 'amazed', or drawn to replay it a dozen times, or remember everything about it for it to still be a good story. It seems like Bioware's efforts have been just as successful with you as it has been any of their other fans. The story was good enough to keep you playing, instead of going to play something else and ditching their RPGs. I think they get the reputation they have because of that simple fact. Relative to other RPGs on the market, they have been one of the most successful RPG developers in the industry so they are in the position to brag a little at this point. They know SWTOR will be a success if they succeed in bringing their storytelling and game elements to an MMO because that's been successful for them for many years now.
EDIT: Admittedly, I read more of your most recent post then your original post so some of what I said contradicted your experience a bit. Sorry about that, but my main point is my last comment. They have gained the reputation for great storytelling because of their success with all their RPGs, even though there will always be differing opinions. They won't please everyone, but their success is pretty indisputable at this point so that's been the direction of their marketing for SWTOR.
It's this, when I had a 360, I tried playing a brand new copy of the game on it, nothing but issues, from popping sounds to broken parts of the game. Your best bet is to just pay like 5 bucks on steam or D2D and dl it from there and play on a PC, even then you're going to have issues, before you can even play you have to DL a dll file to make it work. Unless you're still using XP of course.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Can't say if you are the only one, but I defintely love the Bioware stories. DA2 was a BIT an exception. Didn't like that so much. But everything else... yes.
I expect great things of the TOR stories.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
To the OP - I have to ask. Do you actually follow any of the stories, or do you just click through the cutscenes / quest text as quickly as possible to get on with splatting things?
You have to actually follow the story to immerse yourself in it. If you dont even read the story, how can you possibly enjoy it
I always read the text and watch the cut scenes. I try to pick the answer that's most aligned with the light side--my character screen in KOTOR had a super bright glowing background lol. I didn't finish the game because it glitched on me--not sure if my disc was damaged (rather old) or if it's because I was playing it on the 360.
Some of the posters here have done a great job of describing how they view Bioware's games(story-wise), and many have said it better than I could. I guess my question sounds too "anti-Bioware", but I just don't see (based on my experience with KOTOR & ME) how they got the reputation for being "amazing" storytellers--so much so, that they developed their MMO around it...it's like not only do the consumers believe they are great in this regard, but they also feel it's their strong point--I had to know if this really is the general consensus (especially after reading those webcomics, that I'm guessing are setting the stage for the story we're about to experience).
It's maybe good to remember the 3 SWTOR cinematic videos, many people have said after seeing them that a movie should be made of them because they're better than the 2nd trilogy of Lucas and some said even better than the 3rd movie. That wasn't merely because of the visuals, all Lucas' movies had strong graphics and visuals, however the SWTOR cinematics gave a stronger Star Wars impression than Lucas' 3rd trilogy did to a lot of people.
Blur only provided the graphics for that, the storyboards, script, setting, dialogue and all the little details came from Bioware's people. So if they can manage to provide such an overall atmosphere and storyboards behind the cinematic videos, then I'd say it's just another example that they're better in providing the right Star Wars feel and atmosphere in their works than Lucas did.
And I guess that's why I can't dismiss concerns people have over "story" being a long term motivator for playing this game. I think Bioware envisions people replaying other classes for the story, or trying their class again, but making different light/dark choices--I'm almost positive that some will in fact do that--if it's that great of a story, I might as well--but given my experience with these types of games, I'll be lucky if I remember half of the story.
I think you'll always have different tastes for different people, what one person likes another person will dislike or be indifferent about. Like with the story in BW games, a lot of people like them and respect BW for their storytelling capacity but of course not everyone likes their games or the way BW tells their stories in their games, different tastes and all that.
But they were also behind KOTOR and the SWTOR cinematic trailers, and all those were filled with a strong SW atmosphere and story sense.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Maybe I bumped my head, fell through a wormhole, and landed on another planet but... what other game producer has put out as many story rpgs as Bioware, with a variety of different stories that aren't cliche?
*look left*
*look right*
*look under my feet*
Granted some of Bioware's stories are a little cliche but there are levels of cliche people! From someone who likes a little bit of depth from time to time in their story, Bioware is one of the few developers that I can actually see a track record of providing some 3-dimensional depth in their storytelling. Who else is there?
I have finished every Bioware game I have started and I have played most of them. There is no other developer I can say that about. The stories aren't always completely original I admit but few books/movies/games are. Although it is possible to sometimes guess what the final outcome will be BW seems to make the rod there entertaining. This is an amazing feat especialy when the conversations can change depending on the players choices. I have just finished the first SWTOR novel to get a feel of the universe and was impressed. Not the best written but a good example of the story options. It really showed off a bit of each character class that will be available as well as the type of choices that we will be making.
but you get bored with the narrative and then start making a game out of not playing the darn game...that's why I loved the first Assassin's Creed--playing it like it was meant to be played was rather boring, but you could have fun just being a mass murderer and then piling up the streets with dead guards and civilians, or simply just running along rooftops and whatnot--screw the story lol.
You realize you just said volumes right there.
It's not about being "amazed" at anyone's storytelling.
It's about you wanting a more sandbox type of game. As above.
Which of course points to you not necessarily buying into bioware's stories.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
If I want to read a Book, guess what, I will buy 1 and read it. I will pay $5 for a Paperback book...once..and read it multiple times if I want too.
Am I willing to pay $15 every month to read the same book over and over? No
Even with varying story lines, I RARELY READ THE "CONTENT" THAT IS THE "STORY" IN MMOS THAT I PLAY!
I play to play, not read.
wow, what to say.
I'ts ok for games to be more than movign right, left, up and down and hitting attack buttons. I suppose it's ok that you aren't interested in information being passed on to the player but if all games were just essentially space invaders then I think that might get a bit stale.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Comments
Everything you see, watch, play is cliche. It has all been done before. There is no originality anywhere be it games, music, movies, books, anything.
Where Bioware wins is presentation. Yet to see anyone else making their games almost like interactive movies.
I disagree.
In Mass Effect one of the character "Garrus" disliked how C-Sec was handleing, and thus he dicided to join up with you in order to do things his own way, as you talk with him you find out why he hates doing things by they book and you see his motavations behind his "Shoot first ask questions later" way of thinking.
Games like The Witcher its easy to go into more depth over the main character simple because you don't get to edit your background in the Witcher, (Never played the game myself) thus if your shepard is an War Hero from earth, your motavatoins are going to be different then a shepard who was a colonist sole surviver.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Well first off, you know you CAN kill everyone in the room and not get arrested? Least that's what I did and I was welcomed back like a hero, so nice, thanks BIoware for not caring about me butchering 20 police officers in broad daylight... => And well, what happens is: You dungeon crawl through, kill the a boss, and oh joy, you all get up healthy and awake. How unexpected. And Morrigan: You can go there and kill Flemeth. Period. Now that's a surprise, wow.
And saying "it's all been done before" is just not true. Any one of you seen "A serbian movie"? That had not been done before and people said "torture porn" had gone anywhere it could. Or "a slim chance", a croatian short movie about a war veteran returning to his family, so emotionally intense (without a single scene of violence in it) that it made me cry, not wet my eye, cry like a baby (and I didn't cry over "a serbian movie"). Not done before.
Now I don't expect fat burger-laden geeks in full A/Ced uptown offices to come up with anything artisticly valuable. But claiming they... well, I'd repeat myself, they're producing cheap magazine fiction, at the very least they don't reach me emotionally, at all.
M
A movie about a soldier suffering at home over a war?
HOLY COW WHAT AN ORIGINAL CONCEPT!!!!
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
I'm not "amazed" by Bioware's stories. I just like playing through them with the excellent game play that also seems to accompany the stories. Take out all the story and I would still like the gameplay. The story is just a great addition imo.
It's funny to me, but bioware/ea have been putting a lot of rhetoric out about their massively multimillion dollar game. It's all rhetoric though, if there i something new that this game offers they haven't shown or talked or written about it yet to the public.
No doubt the game will be spit pollished to an insain degree, and will be great for what it does do. It will no doubt be a mishmash clone of other mmorpgs that came before it.
So back to the topic of the thread, my response to that is;
No your not the only one.
Sic Luceat Lux
Exactly, that's why these games are good. Streamlined action, some adventure, looting stuff, and some easily digestible story as the icing on the cake. Perfectly fine. Like watching the newest Terminator movie *g*
Storytelling in general is very easy to predict. I always find that I am able to predict the outcome of pretty much every movie, book or game long before the end. That doesn't mean that I don't enjoy them. The same can be said for Bioware's stories. Sure, I usually know what is going to happen, but I still very much enjoy the ride.
In the case of KOTOR, I actually had no idea that the plot twist was going to happen the first time around and I was very satisfied as a result. It is still one of my favorite games EVER, so you can imagine I am pretty excited for SWTOR.
Basically it comes down to this: If you don't enjoy Bioware's stories, I suggest that you just don't play this game. It is clearly not going to be enjoyable for you.
A Serbian Movie was not original in plot/story which is the point of the thread.
It's believed by many that all stories that have been told, have been told. It's an age old question in cinema and literature. All you can do, is give the actors a new hat, and have them have the same Drama in different settings and under differnet circumstances.
A lot of people in this thread are talking out of their buttocks. To really understand what is going on with Bioware's stories is that they are interactive story. No, Mass Effect is not Catcher in the Rye in space, and thank the flying spagetti monster for that.
It's a well understood notion that gaming fiction is not very good. The best stories tend to come from those that don't blast their audience, like Fumito Ueda (Ico, Shadow of the Colossus). A story can be told without words, instead of hammering down one liners.
But what do you expect, when we live in a world, where Inception is considered smart and intelligent?
I wouldn't ever go as far to say amazed, but they usually keep me playing, and continuously without losing interest enough to pop in another game in before it's complete.
There are still some games I still havn't gotten through due to lack of interest, some started 5-6years ago, and I can't say i've ever not finished a Bioware game (out of the one's I have played anyways).
QFT! lol
I could not believe people thought it's plot was so confusing, and that it required multiple viewings, especially when they spend the entire movie EXPLAINING it all to you!
To the OP - I have to ask. Do you actually follow any of the stories, or do you just click through the cutscenes / quest text as quickly as possible to get on with splatting things?
You have to actually follow the story to immerse yourself in it. If you dont even read the story, how can you possibly enjoy it
Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom
There's only 3 themes after all, when it comes to music, litteracy, movies... Life, Death and Time.. After more than 3000 years of creation, mankind do need to revisit old stuff to make it seem new..
And yes, I do think that Bioware is generally doing a good job with their stories.. I loved Kotor and am hoping for the same quality from TOR..
Well, I think it was (A serbian movie). At least it had moments (I wont go into details for PEGI-reasons) where I sat there, awestruck, wondering if they are _actually_ depicting THIS right now. It was not sensational plotwise, but it took twists, for example the ending scene, that you just didn't expect, nobody did (from the people I watched it with, which I'd call ... erm "my special stomach-hardened horror friends")
And if anything had been told, how come trash-movies like "the human centipede" rake in so much attention. In my opinion, because there _are_ some ideas that just have not yet been told and people have not yet come up with. Sure, the director constructed a trash, predictable movie around it, but the original idea was genuine, inspired maybe, but genuine.
It is unfortunate that i have to refer to the horror-genre all the time, but sociodramas and horror movies are the only ones I have a certain degree of experience with and I can sincerely say that in these genres, there have been plenty of interesting, genuine ideas during the last decade.
And concerning the last line. Inception is a hollywood movie. I really don't expect anything from anyone who considers mainstream movies smart and intelligent. They're not, success and depth mostly exclude each other...
M
I always read the text and watch the cut scenes. I try to pick the answer that's most aligned with the light side--my character screen in KOTOR had a super bright glowing background lol. I didn't finish the game because it glitched on me--not sure if my disc was damaged (rather old) or if it's because I was playing it on the 360.
Some of the posters here have done a great job of describing how they view Bioware's games(story-wise), and many have said it better than I could. I guess my question sounds too "anti-Bioware", but I just don't see (based on my experience with KOTOR & ME) how they got the reputation for being "amazing" storytellers--so much so, that they developed their MMO around it...it's like not only do the consumers believe they are great in this regard, but they also feel it's their strong point--I had to know if this really is the general consensus (especially after reading those webcomics, that I'm guessing are setting the stage for the story we're about to experience).
Someone posted a link to a video about ME2. I've played and beaten both ME & ME2. At the beginning of ME2 you're asked a bunch of questions about what happened in ME...I couldn't remember any of it so I guessed. Watching that video about ME2, I was like "Oh yeah, that's what that game was about"--I had completely forgotten most of it as well. I've never replayed either of them. KOTOR I had started on the old XBOX but never completed, but maybe a year and a half ago I decided to play it all the way through (trying to get in the right frame of mind for this game)...so I put it in my 360 and fired it up--it got beyond the reveal and then glitched--couldn't play further. I did not "hate" or even dislike these stories--they just didn't make an impression on me that I would equate Bioware with "amazing/immersive/great story"--rather, it was Bioware with "choice of dialog"...it wasn't enough to make me replay the games to see "what if I said this instead of that". Now, I've replayed "The Force Unleashed" about 5 or 6 times--not because of the story, but because at max level, sometimes you just want to be a bad mutha....!!!! LOL
And I guess that's why I can't dismiss concerns people have over "story" being a long term motivator for playing this game. I think Bioware envisions people replaying other classes for the story, or trying their class again, but making different light/dark choices--I'm almost positive that some will in fact do that--if it's that great of a story, I might as well--but given my experience with these types of games, I'll be lucky if I remember half of the story.
I hope this game will be a huge success, and because I don't have much (other than it's star wars) to hang my expectations on, I'm really hoping it's crazy fun--but if it's not my thing, one thing is for sure, for those of you that are fans of Bioware and it's story-driven attempt at an MMORPG, if it's not as popular as they'd hoped it would be...I hope and pray that they don't ruin your game to make it appeal to the less-story crowd.
I understand what you're saying Scout, but I look at it a bit differently. I don't connect "memorable" with "good" just because remembering what happened in each game has nothing to do with the quality of storytelling to me. It just means my memory is terrible sometimes. It seems like you are saying because it wasn't memorable, it must've not been very good even though you didn't stop playing it. I can remember the fun I had without connecting it to a specific plot development.
When I play a Bioware game, I really enjoy it and get immersed in it. I know I won't remember it a year from now (or a week from now for that matter), nor will I have any interest at all in replaying their games. I completely enjoy it and feel I get my money's worth from one immersive playthrough, then I move on to another game. I also know that after playing KOTOR, ME, DA, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Nevewinter Nights, etc. that I'll likely have a great experience every time I play their games, albeit unmemorable for personal reasons. I connect the experience with what I felt was a great immersive story at the time, otherwise I would've just quit and read a book.
It kinda feels like you are wondering why you're not enjoying it in the same way others enjoy it, even though you are enjoying their games enough to complete each of the games you've played, read comics based on their stories, buy and play sequels... They really couldn't be doing a better job if they have you buying and reading everything they make lol I wouldn't worry about how others play it or enjoy it, which seems like a recurring theme in your comments. You don't need to have the desire to play it a couple times to see different outcomes, or remember the story in great detail for it to be a fun story. That's one of the other great things I connect with Bioware is giving you choices with how you want to play it. There are a lot of games out there that if you play the first ten minutes and don't enjoy it, you won't ever play it again because it's just torturous with no alternate paths. If you enjoyed one playthrough and feel it was worth the purchase then that is all that is important and Bioware must be doing something right, whether it be via storytelling, entertaining mini games, character development, entertaining cutscenes or music, etc.
I've read a lot of great books too, but I couldn't write a single book review on any of them without going back to remind myself of the plot. I still follow certain authors though because all I need to know is it kept me reading till the end and I walked away satisfied and ready to read the next book in the series. The only times I would question the author's storytelling ability is if I never made it past the first chapter and never went back to it again. We're all going to have different opinions on the quality of the storytelling, but you don't need to be 'amazed', or drawn to replay it a dozen times, or remember everything about it for it to still be a good story. It seems like Bioware's efforts have been just as successful with you as it has been any of their other fans. The story was good enough to keep you playing, instead of going to play something else and ditching their RPGs. I think they get the reputation they have because of that simple fact. Relative to other RPGs on the market, they have been one of the most successful RPG developers in the industry so they are in the position to brag a little at this point. They know SWTOR will be a success if they succeed in bringing their storytelling and game elements to an MMO because that's been successful for them for many years now.
EDIT: Admittedly, I read more of your most recent post then your original post so some of what I said contradicted your experience a bit. Sorry about that, but my main point is my last comment. They have gained the reputation for great storytelling because of their success with all their RPGs, even though there will always be differing opinions. They won't please everyone, but their success is pretty indisputable at this point so that's been the direction of their marketing for SWTOR.
It's this, when I had a 360, I tried playing a brand new copy of the game on it, nothing but issues, from popping sounds to broken parts of the game. Your best bet is to just pay like 5 bucks on steam or D2D and dl it from there and play on a PC, even then you're going to have issues, before you can even play you have to DL a dll file to make it work. Unless you're still using XP of course.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Can't say if you are the only one, but I defintely love the Bioware stories. DA2 was a BIT an exception. Didn't like that so much. But everything else... yes.
I expect great things of the TOR stories.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I think you'll always have different tastes for different people, what one person likes another person will dislike or be indifferent about. Like with the story in BW games, a lot of people like them and respect BW for their storytelling capacity but of course not everyone likes their games or the way BW tells their stories in their games, different tastes and all that.
But they were also behind KOTOR and the SWTOR cinematic trailers, and all those were filled with a strong SW atmosphere and story sense.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Maybe I bumped my head, fell through a wormhole, and landed on another planet but... what other game producer has put out as many story rpgs as Bioware, with a variety of different stories that aren't cliche?
*look left*
*look right*
*look under my feet*
Granted some of Bioware's stories are a little cliche but there are levels of cliche people! From someone who likes a little bit of depth from time to time in their story, Bioware is one of the few developers that I can actually see a track record of providing some 3-dimensional depth in their storytelling. Who else is there?
I have finished every Bioware game I have started and I have played most of them. There is no other developer I can say that about. The stories aren't always completely original I admit but few books/movies/games are. Although it is possible to sometimes guess what the final outcome will be BW seems to make the rod there entertaining. This is an amazing feat especialy when the conversations can change depending on the players choices. I have just finished the first SWTOR novel to get a feel of the universe and was impressed. Not the best written but a good example of the story options. It really showed off a bit of each character class that will be available as well as the type of choices that we will be making.
I can't wait to see what BW does with this game.
You realize you just said volumes right there.
It's not about being "amazed" at anyone's storytelling.
It's about you wanting a more sandbox type of game. As above.
Which of course points to you not necessarily buying into bioware's stories.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If I want to read a Book, guess what, I will buy 1 and read it. I will pay $5 for a Paperback book...once..and read it multiple times if I want too.
Am I willing to pay $15 every month to read the same book over and over? No
Even with varying story lines, I RARELY READ THE "CONTENT" THAT IS THE "STORY" IN MMOS THAT I PLAY!
I play to play, not read.
Oh, and if I remember right, someone named Nancy once said "Reading was bad"...
Guess what happened when that descision was made...
wow, what to say.
I'ts ok for games to be more than movign right, left, up and down and hitting attack buttons. I suppose it's ok that you aren't interested in information being passed on to the player but if all games were just essentially space invaders then I think that might get a bit stale.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo