it ruins a player created economy, let alone crafting. just because you dont like that, doesnt mean others dont either.
Never ever let god of money to rule the world. We can see this unfortunately everyday in our real world and it is nto different in gaming. Agree completely with op. Nothing ruins so much gameing as gold buying does. Imo.
IF the game company is able to sell the game currency at a LOWER price than it is profitable for a botter to run the opperation...then you've effectively undercut the gold farmer and removed the opprotunity for them to be in the market.
Remember botters use in-game features to earn gold , they farm resources , kill mobs ,etc bots are operating for multiple hours doing only this. So in order to make it not profitable you would have to sell gold INSANELY cheaply.
That will make inflation enormous. Inflation mean = gathered , crafted ,etc things you can program bot to do will sell for higher price. If they sell for higher price gold sellers bots are profitable again.
Not to mention such high inflation will make insane QQ from players that will whine that there is not enough gold dropping from monsters. Result see above.
Economy 101.
I never said it was my prefered method of handling gold farmers.
And yes, everything you said is accurate.
My way of tackling gold farmers is to just remove much of the demand. If Gold is HARD to get, a market for people who would rather spend real life dollars instead of spending real life hours will be born.....and gold farmers will fill the void.
Remove much of the dependency on items in game (thereby lowering their value) and increase gold drops on monsters in a balanced way that it doesn't not create inflation.....but doesn't ever really present a real challenge of getting gold.
I think a certian group of MMO gamers will always apply a dollar value to their time in effort to justify RMTs. But I think you can keep a vast majority of normal regular MMORPG players from dipping their toe into the RMT black market by relaxing the gold sinks a bit.
My previous post was just about that game companies selling gold themselves DON'T help with gold sellers. It just don't work for reasons in previous posts. Only permament way to get rid of gold sellers is to get rid of player driven economy completly ,no crafting , no resources ,no trading items between players. Well effective but horrid idea.
I agree with gold sinks though.
Well I've not been very interested in mmorpg economies until recently so cannot argue from experience, but I suspect actually if devs sell in-game gold, that WILL HELP reduce gold-sellers problem in virtual economies.
Simply make it part of the game, in an accessible, secure and sensibly priced format in combination with other factors *not mentioned* and I think that will dampen gold-sellers profits notably?
Game companies selling gold only stops the farmers if the price the game company is selling gold at is LOWER than it is profitable for the gold farming organization to operate. The game company essentially has to undercut the gold farmers.
Gold farmers, by nature, run a very efficient business so thats pretty challenging to do, while not creating a situation where you have economic inflation (as the poster above has pointed out) And incase you didn't know, Inflation is BAD. You don't want to spend 100,000 of an ingame currency for a consumable that gives you a small buff for 30 min.
And as for the idiot that called for taxation to fix the gold farming problem.....while I agree that social engineering should be regulated to video games and not world economies, the idea of punishing people for excelling and rewarding people for not is rediculous...especially in a video game. There are no disabilities in video games that prevent you from doing stuff in the game that others can.
Some people enjoy amassing wealth in a game. Its a measure of achievement just like leveling or getting the best gear. The fix for this is simple... don't buy from them and they will go away.
Game companies selling gold only stops the farmers if the price the game company is selling gold at is LOWER than it is profitable for the gold farming organization to operate. The game company essentially has to undercut the gold farmers. Gold farmers, by nature, run a very efficient business so thats pretty challenging to do, while not creating a situation where you have economic inflation (as the poster above has pointed out) And incase you didn't know, Inflation is BAD. You don't want to spend 100,000 of an ingame currency for a consumable that gives you a small buff for 30 min.
And as for the idiot that called for taxation to fix the gold farming problem.....while I agree that social engineering should be regulated to video games and not world economies, the idea of punishing people for excelling and rewarding people for not is rediculous...especially in a video game. There are no disabilities in video games that prevent you from doing stuff in the game that others can.
People will more likely trust the company running the game when looking to buy gold. Even if the gold seller can sell the gold cheaper, they aren't necessarily trustworthy. You can't make gold selling impossible, but you can make it less profitable.
We're not talking about the real world, we're talking far more limited (or unlimited) game worlds. In the real world, you have to have direct person to person transactions available. You don't need this for an in game economy to work. You can funnel all transactions through an in game market where you will simply receive the lowest price items currently in the market. A person (gold seller) would never be able to transfer large amounts of currency, because nobody would every buy the highest priced item used to transfer the currency. I'm not saying this is the best or only way to handle things, but you have options available in a game that you don't have in the real world.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
People will more likely trust the company running the game when looking to buy gold. Even if the gold seller can sell the gold cheaper, they aren't necessarily trustworthy. You can't make gold selling impossible, but you can make it less profitable.
It still WON'T solve gold sellers problem + it will destroy in game economy MUCH MORE than gold sellers do atm.
I am still amazed that this idea keep coming back when there are proofs that this is not going to solve gold sellers problem.
Gold selling by companies should be in topic : "how to milk players easily?"
Originally posted by Sulaa Originally posted by lizardbones
People will more likely trust the company running the game when looking to buy gold. Even if the gold seller can sell the gold cheaper, they aren't necessarily trustworthy. You can't make gold selling impossible, but you can make it less profitable.
It still WON'T solve gold sellers problem + it will destroy in game economy MUCH MORE than gold sellers do atm. I am still amazed that this idea keep coming back when there are proofs that this is not going to solve gold sellers problem. Gold selling by companies should be in topic : "how to milk players easily?"
Where has it been proven that selling gold to your players ruins the economy?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
People will more likely trust the company running the game when looking to buy gold. Even if the gold seller can sell the gold cheaper, they aren't necessarily trustworthy. You can't make gold selling impossible, but you can make it less profitable.
It still WON'T solve gold sellers problem + it will destroy in game economy MUCH MORE than gold sellers do atm.
I am still amazed that this idea keep coming back when there are proofs that this is not going to solve gold sellers problem.
Gold selling by companies should be in topic : "how to milk players easily?"
Thats a whole other ball of wax. There would be a good amount of unintended consequences for selling in game currency.....basicly take the argument that people make against item shops and extrapolate that.
Players with more discretional income will have more power and access than players who actually have more time to play the game. As MMORPGs are primarily competitive among its inhabitants.....this would create an unfair scenario where all the most wealthy players dominate. (See Lineage 2)
Thats why you address the problem at its root.......cost to the gamer.
I'm no economics major, but flooding uncontrolled amounts of cash into any economy causes inflation and the devaluation of currency. Pretty much destroying the economy.
Thats why you address the problem at its root.......cost to the gamer.
Price don't really matter. If you set price low more players will buy it , there will be more gold in game economy = insane inflation = money lose value = price of gold getting high.
You set price of gold high = big cost to gamer and and like you said:
Originally posted by RajCaj
As MMORPGs are primarily competitive among its inhabitants.....this would create an unfair scenario where all the most wealthy players dominate. (See Lineage 2)
So setting initial cost of gold to low levels won't solve anything , this price will get high with inflation.
Really 'printing money' haven't solved anything never. It just never work.
Besides it is boring but I will say that again = we 'are in topic "Simple way to stop gold farming". Game companies selling gold WILL NOT solve gold farmers. They will still be there and possibly making even more money.
Most of these ideas here do one thing I cant agree with. It punishes the player in an attempt to stop gold farming. Limiting gold a character can get doesnt seem like a big deal to most, but what about that level 35 rogue who loves to work the AH and make profit. He can exchange a massive amount of gold in and out buying and selling, making profits that would make a max toon Drool. In an attempt to thwart gold farmers, you would limit the thing he loves to do.
The gold farming problem sucks for virtual economies, but it doesnt hinder gameplay im most cases. If your attempt to fix it does, its not worth doing. To fix the problem companys have to take a proactive stance on it. They need to punish those who farm via ip and subnet bans.
They wont though, because gold farmers are customers too in the eyes of business men.
Only way to stop gold farming is making international laws about it, ofc this would imply laws over chinese ppl, and their multi billion dollar industry, if gold was treated as internet currency that could activly affect the companies player base/income thro devaluation of gameplay, and these companies/gold farmers had to pay fines(bigger than their revenue) to the affected company then we'd see a very fast decline on gold farming and selling
Originally posted by Ihmotepp The easiest way to stop gold farming, is to simply stop it. Why are you making gold in an MMORPG? to buy things your character needs, right? Do you need more gold than that? No, you don't. So simply put caps on player gold, jsut like you do with Mobs that are low level. When you gain enough levels, in many games the lower level mobs go grey. They no longer give you xp or drop loot or gold. Why is that? To stop you from getting powerful, and just slaughtering low level Mobs with one hit to level all the way to the cap. The game makes you go on to more challenging content. Why not do the same with gold? When you have enough gold for the armor you need, repairs, expendables, then you stop getting gold. You can't horde it, and farm it. You will start to make copper pieces, until you spend the gold you have, or begin to need more because you need to upgrade armor, etc. You can easily build in enough reserve so you can hand over a few gold pieces here and there to help out guildmates, lower level players, etc. What about saving up for a big purchase like a Mount, or a Castle? Easy. You simply choose from a menu what you are going to purchase, and a certain amount of your gold goes towards that purchase till it's paid off. You still can't horde it, and sell it. How would this cause the normal player that isn't a gold farmer any problems?
You will be still spending money thus there will be a demand for money.
Originally posted by TruthXHurts Do away with gold completely and go to the barter system. Either that or we just stop letting China play our MMO's.
There are already IP blocks in place in many cases. It's just not a real effective way to block people who really want to play a game for profit. Also, you could gold farm with illegal immigrants or prisoners in the United States just fine.
You are right in that the only true way to get rid of 'gold' farming is to remove the gold. Then you'd have barter farmers...but they aren't as profitable.
I think there needs to be a systemic change in how currency is used between players. Allow people to exchange currency for goods, but remove the ability to do it between individuals - using a Market system (not Auction House system). You can buy X number of items, and they'll be given to you at the cheapest price available on the market, but you can't buy from any specific individual. Global Agenda has this kind of system in place.
Currency cannot be exchanged between players but you still allow items to be traded player to player, allowing bartering and gifts. This won't eliminate farming, but it'll make it less viable as a business, which is the issue.
@Fir3line - I don't like using a 'slippery slope' argument because it's just a bad way to debate someone, but in the case of government regulation, I think it applies. There are things I want the government to get involved in, but my online games are not one of them. It will never be enough for our government(s) to make just one law regarding online gaming.
As far as inflation goes, you're going to get inflation no matter what. You are literally farming in game currency from nothing. The game company is pumping money into the system out of nowhere anyway. Changing the source of the money from the belly of a monster to an item shop isn't going to change the way the money in the game inflates.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Usually when people sell items, they try to put the price the same, or slightly lower than the other person that is selling it, dropping the prices.
They dont say "Hey, hes selling that chest piece for 150, so im going to ask 175!"
ok there are only 5 of this "rare" item in the server (lets call it rareium)
so there are only 5 people on the server who have 1 unit of rareium
3 decide to keep it in their banks and 2 decide to sell it since they dont want/need it or need the gold more
now i have lots of gold, and by lots i mean a metric shit ton! so i go on the market and see that there is only 2 for sale for say 1 million gold. i say oh alright! ill take...... oh damn 10 other people want them too.... so i contact the seller and tell him that if he takes it off the market and sell it to me ill pay 5 million. i get a reply from him saying that x other guy offererd him 7 million. and so on! so there you go something worth 100k is now worth 7 million...
go take a economy course (basic course is all you need) and then we can talk
edit:
or another scenario, i buy all chest pieces in the market for 150 a pop and then put them back on the market at 500 a pop, the next person will see that and try to get as much as he can for HIS chest plates he crafted so he will put his at 499, with all the profit ill be making, i can now turn around and BUY ALL 450-499 chest plates and sell them back on the market at 1000
Comments
Never ever let god of money to rule the world. We can see this unfortunately everyday in our real world and it is nto different in gaming. Agree completely with op. Nothing ruins so much gameing as gold buying does. Imo.
Game companies selling gold only stops the farmers if the price the game company is selling gold at is LOWER than it is profitable for the gold farming organization to operate. The game company essentially has to undercut the gold farmers.
Gold farmers, by nature, run a very efficient business so thats pretty challenging to do, while not creating a situation where you have economic inflation (as the poster above has pointed out) And incase you didn't know, Inflation is BAD. You don't want to spend 100,000 of an ingame currency for a consumable that gives you a small buff for 30 min.
And as for the idiot that called for taxation to fix the gold farming problem.....while I agree that social engineering should be regulated to video games and not world economies, the idea of punishing people for excelling and rewarding people for not is rediculous...especially in a video game. There are no disabilities in video games that prevent you from doing stuff in the game that others can.
Some people enjoy amassing wealth in a game. Its a measure of achievement just like leveling or getting the best gear. The fix for this is simple... don't buy from them and they will go away.
I self identify as a monkey.
Gold farmers, by nature, run a very efficient business so thats pretty challenging to do, while not creating a situation where you have economic inflation (as the poster above has pointed out) And incase you didn't know, Inflation is BAD. You don't want to spend 100,000 of an ingame currency for a consumable that gives you a small buff for 30 min.
And as for the idiot that called for taxation to fix the gold farming problem.....while I agree that social engineering should be regulated to video games and not world economies, the idea of punishing people for excelling and rewarding people for not is rediculous...especially in a video game. There are no disabilities in video games that prevent you from doing stuff in the game that others can.
People will more likely trust the company running the game when looking to buy gold. Even if the gold seller can sell the gold cheaper, they aren't necessarily trustworthy. You can't make gold selling impossible, but you can make it less profitable.
We're not talking about the real world, we're talking far more limited (or unlimited) game worlds. In the real world, you have to have direct person to person transactions available. You don't need this for an in game economy to work. You can funnel all transactions through an in game market where you will simply receive the lowest price items currently in the market. A person (gold seller) would never be able to transfer large amounts of currency, because nobody would every buy the highest priced item used to transfer the currency. I'm not saying this is the best or only way to handle things, but you have options available in a game that you don't have in the real world.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It still WON'T solve gold sellers problem + it will destroy in game economy MUCH MORE than gold sellers do atm.
I am still amazed that this idea keep coming back when there are proofs that this is not going to solve gold sellers problem.
Gold selling by companies should be in topic : "how to milk players easily?"
I am still amazed that this idea keep coming back when there are proofs that this is not going to solve gold sellers problem.
Gold selling by companies should be in topic : "how to milk players easily?"
Where has it been proven that selling gold to your players ruins the economy?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Thats a whole other ball of wax. There would be a good amount of unintended consequences for selling in game currency.....basicly take the argument that people make against item shops and extrapolate that.
Players with more discretional income will have more power and access than players who actually have more time to play the game. As MMORPGs are primarily competitive among its inhabitants.....this would create an unfair scenario where all the most wealthy players dominate. (See Lineage 2)
Thats why you address the problem at its root.......cost to the gamer.
I'm no economics major, but flooding uncontrolled amounts of cash into any economy causes inflation and the devaluation of currency. Pretty much destroying the economy.
Of course I could be wrong...
Price don't really matter. If you set price low more players will buy it , there will be more gold in game economy = insane inflation = money lose value = price of gold getting high.
You set price of gold high = big cost to gamer and and like you said:
So setting initial cost of gold to low levels won't solve anything , this price will get high with inflation.
Really 'printing money' haven't solved anything never. It just never work.
Besides it is boring but I will say that again = we 'are in topic "Simple way to stop gold farming". Game companies selling gold WILL NOT solve gold farmers. They will still be there and possibly making even more money.
@hpisti
Agreed.
Most of these ideas here do one thing I cant agree with. It punishes the player in an attempt to stop gold farming. Limiting gold a character can get doesnt seem like a big deal to most, but what about that level 35 rogue who loves to work the AH and make profit. He can exchange a massive amount of gold in and out buying and selling, making profits that would make a max toon Drool. In an attempt to thwart gold farmers, you would limit the thing he loves to do.
The gold farming problem sucks for virtual economies, but it doesnt hinder gameplay im most cases. If your attempt to fix it does, its not worth doing. To fix the problem companys have to take a proactive stance on it. They need to punish those who farm via ip and subnet bans.
They wont though, because gold farmers are customers too in the eyes of business men.
Only way to stop gold farming is making international laws about it, ofc this would imply laws over chinese ppl, and their multi billion dollar industry, if gold was treated as internet currency that could activly affect the companies player base/income thro devaluation of gameplay, and these companies/gold farmers had to pay fines(bigger than their revenue) to the affected company then we'd see a very fast decline on gold farming and selling
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
Do away with gold completely and go to the barter system. Either that or we just stop letting China play our MMO's.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
You will be still spending money thus there will be a demand for money.
Your suggestion won't solve anything.
There are already IP blocks in place in many cases. It's just not a real effective way to block people who really want to play a game for profit. Also, you could gold farm with illegal immigrants or prisoners in the United States just fine.
You are right in that the only true way to get rid of 'gold' farming is to remove the gold. Then you'd have barter farmers...but they aren't as profitable.
I think there needs to be a systemic change in how currency is used between players. Allow people to exchange currency for goods, but remove the ability to do it between individuals - using a Market system (not Auction House system). You can buy X number of items, and they'll be given to you at the cheapest price available on the market, but you can't buy from any specific individual. Global Agenda has this kind of system in place.
Currency cannot be exchanged between players but you still allow items to be traded player to player, allowing bartering and gifts. This won't eliminate farming, but it'll make it less viable as a business, which is the issue.
@Fir3line - I don't like using a 'slippery slope' argument because it's just a bad way to debate someone, but in the case of government regulation, I think it applies. There are things I want the government to get involved in, but my online games are not one of them. It will never be enough for our government(s) to make just one law regarding online gaming.
As far as inflation goes, you're going to get inflation no matter what. You are literally farming in game currency from nothing. The game company is pumping money into the system out of nowhere anyway. Changing the source of the money from the belly of a monster to an item shop isn't going to change the way the money in the game inflates.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Oh yeah, because you cannot sell virtual goods for real money...
ok there are only 5 of this "rare" item in the server (lets call it rareium)
so there are only 5 people on the server who have 1 unit of rareium
3 decide to keep it in their banks and 2 decide to sell it since they dont want/need it or need the gold more
now i have lots of gold, and by lots i mean a metric shit ton! so i go on the market and see that there is only 2 for sale for say 1 million gold. i say oh alright! ill take...... oh damn 10 other people want them too.... so i contact the seller and tell him that if he takes it off the market and sell it to me ill pay 5 million. i get a reply from him saying that x other guy offererd him 7 million. and so on! so there you go something worth 100k is now worth 7 million...
go take a economy course (basic course is all you need) and then we can talk
edit:
or another scenario, i buy all chest pieces in the market for 150 a pop and then put them back on the market at 500 a pop, the next person will see that and try to get as much as he can for HIS chest plates he crafted so he will put his at 499, with all the profit ill be making, i can now turn around and BUY ALL 450-499 chest plates and sell them back on the market at 1000
and so on and on and on
Maybe you could take the course and educated yourself about what market actually is...
been there done that, its called offer and demand
also real life market and video game market is not identical so some differences may be noticed