Yes! How dare a game company focus on story line and mechanics! It's all about the eye candy! Just ask Square Enix, Sony Entertainment (who went SO overboard that only the leetest of their players could afford a rig to even play the damned game), or NCSoft. They went heavy on the eyecandy and light on those things no one wants......ability to run the game, mechanics......fun.
If you want to reach a wide audience, you don't put system crippling visuals in a game and expect to make a ton of money. I'll take fun factor over "ooh purty" factor anyday.
PS - It's not like there has ever been a cartoony graphics MMO that has consistently held over 8 million subs or anything......oh wait...
DING! DING! DING!
A winner is you.
Seriously. IMO, TOR looks fine, not mind blowing like AoC but fine. Good art, good asthetics, average/above average graphics and I'm cool with that. I really just want my hundreds of hours of single player storyline combined with a full fledged universe to explore and quest on with my RL friends and NPC companions.
DING! DING! DING!
A looser is you.
Ever heard about graphics scaling? Check out LOTRO for example! It can run on pretty much any system! Yet people who like "shiny" graphics and invested in a good rig can max out the graphics and enjoy the game in full glory!
I'm not saying SW:TOR looks crap... it doesn't and looks decent, BUT! The Hero Engine they licensed is capable of more and better... so it's a missed opportunity in my book.
Especially since they are already bragging about a 15 year roadmap. Well sorry, but in a couple years from now this game is going to look extremely dated already! So they will have to start investing in updating the graphics sooner than later.
One thing I still can not find is the system requirements for this game. So basically we have no idea what kind of set up will be needed NOR do we know if the graphics will be scale-able. Granted, they could have said something by now, but they could also be saving that for the pre-launch advertising buildup. It would be a nice little treat after all and even you admit the Hero Engine is capable of it.
As for the 15 year quote, you might want to go check that little bit of info out. It seemed a pretty clear case of hyperbole to me when read in the context of the interview.
So who is the real looser here? The person that thinks he will be happy with what he is getting or the person that is making assumptions with no actual evidence to back them up?
from the SWToR website:
System Requirements
OSWindows XP, Vista/7 CPUAMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 4000+ or better · Intel Core 2 Duo Processor 2.0GHz or better RAMWindows XP: 1.5GB · Windows Vista and Windows 7: 2GB · PCs using a built-in graphical chipset, 2GB RAM recommended. VideoATI X1800 or better* · nVidia 7800 or better* · Intel 4100 Integrated Graphics or better*
DVD-ROM8x or better *Minimum of 256MB of on-board RAM and Shader 3.0 or better support.
Awesome, I didn't realise they had posted this finally. So basically the game only requires a very basic computer which leaves (potentially) a huge amount of room for graphical scaling. Thanks for the find Foomerang.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
i'd beg to differ there are sources out there is you do your research the game is set on a 5 yr old graphical standard that doesn't scale very much it's a stylized art in the way wow is, and i've seen wow on killer rigs and it doesn't scale up neither does stwor.
Don't hold your breath for 200-300hr of storyline for each char. They would have to be VERY similar.
Story alone will most likely be 20-30h, the rest will be level grinding. Unless you count all quests as storyline? Going by that wow has like 1000hr worth of storyline ;p
Go here, and listen to the comic con panel, skip ahead to 8:17 and Dallas Dickenson says it plain as day "several hundred hours of unique content per class"
And sure, there may be a ton of locations and areas, and NPCs that are overlapped with each class, but keep in mind that it'll more than likely be from a different view-point based on the decisions you've made prior and thereafter. I believe in Bioware to pull it off. Really why would they keep saying that the game is larger than every Bioware game that came before combined if they limited each class to only 20-30 hrs.
Don't hold your breath for 200-300hr of storyline for each char. They would have to be VERY similar.
Story alone will most likely be 20-30h, the rest will be level grinding. Unless you count all quests as storyline? Going by that wow has like 1000hr worth of storyline ;p
Go here, and listen to the comic con panel, skip ahead to 8:17 and Dallas Dickenson says it plain as day "several hundred hours of unique content per class"
And sure, there may be a ton of locations and areas, and NPCs that are overlapped with each class, but keep in mind that it'll more than likely be from a different view-point based on the decisions you've made prior and thereafter. I believe in Bioware to pull it off. Really why would they keep saying that the game is larger than every Bioware game that came before combined if they limited each class to only 20-30 hrs.
This doesn't prove me wrong at all.
content=/=story line.
Story line is just some part of content but it isnt the same as being the whole content itself.
BioWare had problem pumping 20-30hours of storyline into Mass Effect 2/Dragon Age/Dragon age 2. Do you honestly believe they will have 200-300 hours worth of quality storyline per each class? Nope.
It will either be very small stories, variations, shared quests etc.
I wish they made single player RPG with awesome storyline that would last at least 50 hours. That is all the more reason why 1600-2400 hours [8*200-300] of storyline is....impossible.
Don't hold your breath for 200-300hr of storyline for each char. They would have to be VERY similar.
Story alone will most likely be 20-30h, the rest will be level grinding. Unless you count all quests as storyline? Going by that wow has like 1000hr worth of storyline ;p
Go here, and listen to the comic con panel, skip ahead to 8:17 and Dallas Dickenson says it plain as day "several hundred hours of unique content per class"
And sure, there may be a ton of locations and areas, and NPCs that are overlapped with each class, but keep in mind that it'll more than likely be from a different view-point based on the decisions you've made prior and thereafter. I believe in Bioware to pull it off. Really why would they keep saying that the game is larger than every Bioware game that came before combined if they limited each class to only 20-30 hrs.
This doesn't prove me wrong at all.
content=/=story line.
Story line is just some part of content but it isnt the same as being the whole content itself.
BioWare had problem pumping 20-30hours of storyline into Mass Effect 2/Dragon Age/Dragon age 2. Do you honestly believe they will have 200-300 hours worth of quality storyline per each class? Nope.
It will either be very small stories, variations, shared quests etc.
I wish they made single player RPG with awesome storyline that would last at least 50 hours. That is all the more reason why 1600-2400 hours [8*200-300] of storyline is....impossible.
They said it takes 200 hours to finish up your class story and level up to 50.
can we please stop with the Korean grind phrase? its offensive and not even accurate. Of the few Korean MMOs ive played (before NA release), none had a huge xp grind. That was added later for the NA release. And besides, American devs were the ones that invented the infinite xp grind. All they are doing in Korea is trying to give Americans what they want. Im just getting tired of seeing people write Asian game or Korean grinder in a derogatory way. I wish the mods would step in when they see this but whatev.
Ever hear of a little game called Lineage 2 or even Aion? Both were scaled down in the US from the Korean versions.
point is tons of mmos are grinders and they come from every country. just call it a grindfest or something. no need to bring a nationality into it. it can be seen as offensive.
Story line is just some part of content but it isnt the same as being the whole content itself.
BioWare had problem pumping 20-30hours of storyline into Mass Effect 2/Dragon Age/Dragon age 2. Do you honestly believe they will have 200-300 hours worth of quality storyline per each class? Nope.
It will either be very small stories, variations, shared quests etc.
I wish they made single player RPG with awesome storyline that would last at least 50 hours. That is all the more reason why 1600-2400 hours [8*200-300] of storyline is....impossible.
Actually, it took 40-50 hours on a 1st time playthrough on average to complete KOTOR and 100+ hours in Dragon Age if you were a completionist, so yes, I certainly can see them do it. As for the stories, we already know that they're very, very different from eachother with a totally different and distinct feel to them per class.
That said, of course not all the 200+ hours per class uo to level cap will be fully unique, after all they already stated several times that you'll also be doing shared quests, World Quests and such, on your route to level cap.
As for content, they already explained what was included in them, it should be regarded as 'questing content' in this context, all the stuff you do while quest leveling and doing some specific quest content.
Originally posted by daveospice
This game just seems like it's building off hype and the star wars name. All the trailers I've seen, all the videos... really leave me with this feeling of "cheesy and another cash cow". It doesn't leave me with this degree of OMG this game is perfection and totally going to kick ass. Reading the features, and keeping up on the game itself... only eight classes, space combat is a joke, and yeah... another korean grind to make you pay money monthly long enough to milk ya. Sigh. I've got it preordered because I'm an idiot lol
Bottom line is I've seen very little in the ways of "this is what other mmo's do, we're going to take that and build on it and improve it in this way" Instead I'm seeing, "AWESOME LIGHTSABER FIGHT!" and what star wars things will be in the game.
It's actually 16 classes, you should see the advanced classes as actual classes, like how it was at EQ2 in the beginning or how in AoC 3 very different classes like Barbarian, Ranger and Assassin were all part of the same main class, Rogue. It's the same in SWTOR.
As for space combat, it's a minigame right now, but that doesn't mean it'll always be just that, besides SWG didn't have any space combat at all at launch but added it later on too.
'another korean grind' is just pure nonsense and factually incorrect.
As for improvements, they actually added quite a lot if you paid attention but the basic gameplay is still themepark design, so yeah, if that's not your thing or you've grown sick of themepark gameplay then I can understand how you'd also ignore the improvements or own versions they made of those features.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
can we please stop with the Korean grind phrase? its offensive and not even accurate. Of the few Korean MMOs ive played (before NA release), none had a huge xp grind. That was added later for the NA release. And besides, American devs were the ones that invented the infinite xp grind. All they are doing in Korea is trying to give Americans what they want. Im just getting tired of seeing people write Asian game or Korean grinder in a derogatory way. I wish the mods would step in when they see this but whatev.
Why should the term not be used?! Thats the real question, apart from who invented what , Korean grind ist the correct term for games that require an almost infinite XP amount so that you can jump from one level to the other.. as SWToR isn't out yet we cannot hold out the possibility ( altough i do not believe it to be the case ).
And imo Korean style games are boring, unimaginative for its most part and the amount of grind required is almost inhuman, a trend that unfortunately everyone seems to follow this days just because ZOMG ITS KOREAN! ....
I want to like it so much because I'm a huge star wars fan and I loved galaxies and I will buy it regardless because I'm a huge star wars nerd...
but I'm also a veteran MMO player. I've played UO, Shadowbane, Eve, DAOC, EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, WoW, Rift, and more....
This game just seems like it's building off hype and the star wars name. All the trailers I've seen, all the videos... really leave me with this feeling of "cheesy and another cash cow". It doesn't leave me with this degree of OMG this game is perfection and totally going to kick ass. Reading the features, and keeping up on the game itself... only eight classes, space combat is a joke, and yeah... another korean grind to make you pay money monthly long enough to milk ya. Sigh. I've got it preordered because I'm an idiot lol
Bottom line is I've seen very little in the ways of "this is what other mmo's do, we're going to take that and build on it and improve it in this way" Instead I'm seeing, "AWESOME LIGHTSABER FIGHT!" and what star wars things will be in the game.
Wow... a fanboy that actually has a brain.. thats rare these days.. not that it means much but you got my respect for seeing SW:ToR for what it really is while being a big fan of Starwars or Bioware. I like Bioware myself but i'm not a big fan that i'll run out and buy anything with their name on it. When I seen some of the videos I was also left very unimpressed, the game looks like another run of the mill world of warcraft clone, hell it even has the cartoony-like graphics WoW does. Combat looks exactly like wow from the UI, to the combat flow, hell I bet like rift, some of the skill tips are pulled right from wow with the exact same wording, it works but it leaves a taste that the devs were lazy in my mouth. Mind you when a dev team pretty much just copies wow like Rift and SW:ToR and just puts a diffrent skin over it without doing much diffrent, that doesn't sit well with me. At least GW2 though it'll be simmlar to wow combat wise, they have done some things to the system to make it feel a bit diffrent. Also before you yell GW2 fanboy at me, I hated GW1, Played a trial and just did not care for the game at all, but to me GW2 just sounds alot more intersting than SW:ToR does.
MMORPG players like me aren't asking for a totally unique game, its alright if it uses existing systems, but at least take the effort to try to do something new with it, like GW2 does. SW: ToR and rift, pretty much just copy and pasted the combat system and its flow from world of warcraft and pasted it in their game. I'm more of a killer in mmorpg's I love to kill things, so the combat system is a major part of me enjoying a mmo. games like Rift, and SW:ToR just don't/won't feel fresh enough. I'll still try SW:ToR when their is a trial, but I won't hold my breath of it being anything that isin't run of the mill. Bioware is gonna make a killing on box sales though, but I bet a large number will quit before their free month is up once they relize the game is just world of warcraft/generic mmorpg #7563654 in a star wars skin. Then again I may buy SW:ToR.. I might get someone to get it for me as a gift for the hell of it, not my money being wasted on it.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Oh and btw. I agree with the fact it looks like crap but graphics mean nothing compared to game-play, and unfortunately there doesn't seem to much in that department either.
YaYa ok you get allot of choices and story talking but do you honestly believe at 50 hours in, 75 hours, 100 hours in you'll even have the slightest idea what was going on 20 hours back and what decisions you made??? You'll be so numbed out with boredom at this point even if you did you wont give a rats butt.
In a nutshell this is a single player game with a monthly fee. I too would have much prefered a single player kotor 3 with ME graphics and ui.
In a nutshell, this is 100% incorrect as well, I advise you to do more research instead of just spreading misinformation on purpose.
SWTOR is an MMORPG, a themepark MMO, deal with it, and it's a themepark MMO that instead of the traditional textbased questing that we're familiar with in current MMO's will have story immersive quests that'll have VO, cinematic cutscenes and your decisions influence the outcome of quests and the follow up quests you receive.
To name a few other examples, GW2 and TSW will have story heavy quests with VO and cutscenes too, does that make those games singleplayer games? No, and neither does it make SWTOR one.
Jeez, you really start to wonder if a number of mmorpg.com posters actually have any concrete experience with themepark MMO's or if they just leave their brains at the door as soon as they start posting here, this constant BS about SWTOR being a 'singleplayer game'
Originally posted by rt33
Oh and btw. I agree with the fact it looks like crap but graphics mean nothing compared to game-play, and unfortunately there doesn't seem to much in that department either.
YaYa ok you get allot of choices and story talking but do you honestly believe at 50 hours in, 75 hours, 100 hours in you'll even have the slightest idea what was going on 20 hours back and what decisions you made??? You'll be so numbed out with boredom at this point even if you did you wont give a rats butt.
Bullshit. If you dislike SWTOR then don't play it. If you hate quest leveling like SWTOR will implement it, I suggest you try other MMO's where you can mob grind for 100-300 hours to level cap or where you just do textbased quests. It sounds like just the type of MMO's for you.
As for gameplay, instead of people talking nonsense who never even played the game, the majority of people who actually spend time in SWTOR playing the game were happy or positive about the gameplay they experienced, from the few hours they played up to tens of hours of gameplay.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I want to like it so much because I'm a huge star wars fan and I loved galaxies and I will buy it regardless because I'm a huge star wars nerd...
but I'm also a veteran MMO player. I've played UO, Shadowbane, Eve, DAOC, EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, WoW, Rift, and more....
This game just seems like it's building off hype and the star wars name. All the trailers I've seen, all the videos... really leave me with this feeling of "cheesy and another cash cow". It doesn't leave me with this degree of OMG this game is perfection and totally going to kick ass. Reading the features, and keeping up on the game itself... only eight classes, space combat is a joke, and yeah... another korean grind to make you pay money monthly long enough to milk ya. Sigh. I've got it preordered because I'm an idiot lol
Bottom line is I've seen very little in the ways of "this is what other mmo's do, we're going to take that and build on it and improve it in this way" Instead I'm seeing, "AWESOME LIGHTSABER FIGHT!" and what star wars things will be in the game.
You'll never be satisfied if you're looking for perfection. Typical problem with 'MMO Vets'. It's like the first time you do a serious narcotic drug, you won't be able to experience that "new omg" feeling again.
I simply don't understand the mentality of wearing yourself out on something and expecting the genre to change to meet your new demands.
I was like you, burned out on themepark MMOs and couldn't stand the thought of questing and leveling up. This was about a year ago, since then I started playing EVE and staying away from themeparks.
The time off has 'refreshed' me so-to-speak and I feel like I'll be able to go into TOR with renewed vigor.
If you've been eating steak for years and you've burned out on it, I don't care if the best chef in the world makes you the best steak in the world, you won't want it anymore.
Let MMOs and themeparks go for a while and you might be surprised to learn that you were as much a part of the problem as the genre was.
I want to like it so much because I'm a huge star wars fan and I loved galaxies and I will buy it regardless because I'm a huge star wars nerd...
but I'm also a veteran MMO player. I've played UO, Shadowbane, Eve, DAOC, EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, WoW, Rift, and more....
This game just seems like it's building off hype and the star wars name. All the trailers I've seen, all the videos... really leave me with this feeling of "cheesy and another cash cow". It doesn't leave me with this degree of OMG this game is perfection and totally going to kick ass. Reading the features, and keeping up on the game itself... only eight classes, space combat is a joke, and yeah... another korean grind to make you pay money monthly long enough to milk ya. Sigh. I've got it preordered because I'm an idiot lol
Bottom line is I've seen very little in the ways of "this is what other mmo's do, we're going to take that and build on it and improve it in this way" Instead I'm seeing, "AWESOME LIGHTSABER FIGHT!" and what star wars things will be in the game.
If you say that then you havn't been watching many interviews on this game have you. If you have had any hands on with the game you would see that is exactly what they are doing, its only the fans that are going "AWSOME LIGHSABER FIGHT!".
Wow... a fanboy that actually has a brain.. thats rare these days.. not that it means much but you got my respect for seeing SW:ToR for what it really is while being a big fan of Starwars or Bioware. I like Bioware myself but i'm not a big fan that i'll run out and buy anything with their name on it. When I seen some of the videos I was also left very unimpressed, the game looks like another run of the mill world of warcraft clone, hell it even has the cartoony-like graphics WoW does. Combat looks exactly like wow from the UI, to the combat flow, hell I bet like rift, some of the skill tips are pulled right from wow with the exact same wording, it works but it leaves a taste that the devs were lazy in my mouth. Mind you when a dev team pretty much just copies wow like Rift and SW:ToR and just puts a diffrent skin over it without doing much diffrent, that doesn't sit well with me. At least GW2 though it'll be simmlar to wow combat wise, they have done some things to the system to make it feel a bit diffrent. Also before you yell GW2 fanboy at me, I hated GW1, Played a trial and just did not care for the game at all, but to me GW2 just sounds alot more intersting than SW:ToR does.
MMORPG players like me aren't asking for a totally unique game, its alright if it uses existing systems, but at least take the effort to try to do something new with it, like GW2 does. SW: ToR and rift, pretty much just copy and pasted the combat system and its flow from world of warcraft and pasted it in their game. I'm more of a killer in mmorpg's I love to kill things, so the combat system is a major part of me enjoying a mmo. games like Rift, and SW:ToR just don't/won't feel fresh enough. I'll still try SW:ToR when their is a trial, but I won't hold my breath of it being anything that isin't run of the mill. Bioware is gonna make a killing on box sales though, but I bet a large number will quit before their free month is up once they relize the game is just world of warcraft/generic mmorpg #7563654 in a star wars skin. Then again I may buy SW:ToR.. I might get someone to get it for me as a gift for the hell of it, not my money being wasted on it.
Oh look a GW2 fanboy...
Trust me when I say this, If you didn't like GW1 then you won't care much for GW2.
I want to like it so much because I'm a huge star wars fan and I loved galaxies and I will buy it regardless because I'm a huge star wars nerd...
but I'm also a veteran MMO player. I've played UO, Shadowbane, Eve, DAOC, EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, WoW, Rift, and more....
This game just seems like it's building off hype and the star wars name. All the trailers I've seen, all the videos... really leave me with this feeling of "cheesy and another cash cow". It doesn't leave me with this degree of OMG this game is perfection and totally going to kick ass. Reading the features, and keeping up on the game itself... only eight classes, space combat is a joke, and yeah... another korean grind to make you pay money monthly long enough to milk ya. Sigh. I've got it preordered because I'm an idiot lol
Bottom line is I've seen very little in the ways of "this is what other mmo's do, we're going to take that and build on it and improve it in this way" Instead I'm seeing, "AWESOME LIGHTSABER FIGHT!" and what star wars things will be in the game.
Wow... a fanboy that actually has a brain.. thats rare these days.. not that it means much but you got my respect for seeing SW:ToR for what it really is while being a big fan of Starwars or Bioware. I like Bioware myself but i'm not a big fan that i'll run out and buy anything with their name on it. When I seen some of the videos I was also left very unimpressed, the game looks like another run of the mill world of warcraft clone, hell it even has the cartoony-like graphics WoW does. Combat looks exactly like wow from the UI, to the combat flow, hell I bet like rift, some of the skill tips are pulled right from wow with the exact same wording, it works but it leaves a taste that the devs were lazy in my mouth. Mind you when a dev team pretty much just copies wow like Rift and SW:ToR and just puts a diffrent skin over it without doing much diffrent, that doesn't sit well with me. At least GW2 though it'll be simmlar to wow combat wise, they have done some things to the system to make it feel a bit diffrent. Also before you yell GW2 fanboy at me, I hated GW1, Played a trial and just did not care for the game at all, but to me GW2 just sounds alot more intersting than SW:ToR does.
MMORPG players like me aren't asking for a totally unique game, its alright if it uses existing systems, but at least take the effort to try to do something new with it, like GW2 does. SW: ToR and rift, pretty much just copy and pasted the combat system and its flow from world of warcraft and pasted it in their game. I'm more of a killer in mmorpg's I love to kill things, so the combat system is a major part of me enjoying a mmo. games like Rift, and SW:ToR just don't/won't feel fresh enough. I'll still try SW:ToR when their is a trial, but I won't hold my breath of it being anything that isin't run of the mill. Bioware is gonna make a killing on box sales though, but I bet a large number will quit before their free month is up once they relize the game is just world of warcraft/generic mmorpg #7563654 in a star wars skin. Then again I may buy SW:ToR.. I might get someone to get it for me as a gift for the hell of it, not my money being wasted on it.
Guees your into the anime graphics of GW2, the backgrounds are beautiful in that game, the character models not so much.
In a nutshell this is a single player game with a monthly fee. I too would have much prefered a single player kotor 3 with ME graphics and ui.
In a nutshell, this is 100% incorrect as well, I advise you to do more research instead of just spreading misinformation on purpose.
SWTOR is an MMORPG, a themepark MMO, deal with it, and it's a themepark MMO that instead of the traditional textbased questing that we're familiar with in current MMO's will have story immersive quests that'll have VO, cinematic cutscenes and your decisions influence the outcome of quests and the follow up quests you receive.
To name a few other examples, GW2 and TSW will have story heavy quests with VO and cutscenes too, does that make those games singleplayer games? No, and neither does it make SWTOR one.
Jeez, you really start to wonder if a number of mmorpg.com posters actually have any concrete experience with themepark MMO's or if they just leave their brains at the door as soon as they start posting here, this constant BS about SWTOR being a 'singleplayer game'
I'm almost positive he didn't literally mean a single player game. Probably more along the lines of....yes it's an MMO, but everyone will probably solo.
You'll never be satisfied if you're looking for perfection. Typical problem with 'MMO Vets'. It's like the first time you do a serious narcotic drug, you won't be able to experience that "new omg" feeling again.
I simply don't understand the mentality of wearing yourself out on something and expecting the genre to change to meet your new demands.
I was like you, burned out on themepark MMOs and couldn't stand the thought of questing and leveling up. This was about a year ago, since then I started playing EVE and staying away from themeparks.
The time off has 'refreshed' me so-to-speak and I feel like I'll be able to go into TOR with renewed vigor.
If you've been eating steak for years and you've burned out on it, I don't care if the best chef in the world makes you the best steak in the world, you won't want it anymore.
Let MMOs and themeparks go for a while and you might be surprised to learn that you were as much a part of the problem as the genre was.
+1 for using common sense and reason, all arguments in this post made sense.
Originally posted by jonesing22
I'm almost positive he didn't literally mean a single player game. Probably more along the lines of....yes it's an MMO, but everyone will probably solo.
I know he didn't mean 'singleplayer game' literally. But then he might as well say that all themepark MMORPG's are singleplayer games, so I stand by my statement that people saying that about SWTOR either have little experience with themepark MMO's or they hate or dislike them.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
it doesnt look like crap it looks like Global Agenda.
wile there are better looking games ( like Aion and Tera) if the game play is fun and the worlds are large and immersive it wont really matter. the most succesfull mmo to date (WoW) did fine even without the best graphics of it's time.
I want to like it so much because I'm a huge star wars fan and I loved galaxies and I will buy it regardless because I'm a huge star wars nerd...
but I'm also a veteran MMO player. I've played UO, Shadowbane, Eve, DAOC, EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, WoW, Rift, and more....
This game just seems like it's building off hype and the star wars name. All the trailers I've seen, all the videos... really leave me with this feeling of "cheesy and another cash cow". It doesn't leave me with this degree of OMG this game is perfection and totally going to kick ass. Reading the features, and keeping up on the game itself... only eight classes, space combat is a joke, and yeah... another korean grind to make you pay money monthly long enough to milk ya. Sigh. I've got it preordered because I'm an idiot lol
Bottom line is I've seen very little in the ways of "this is what other mmo's do, we're going to take that and build on it and improve it in this way" Instead I'm seeing, "AWESOME LIGHTSABER FIGHT!" and what star wars things will be in the game.
Dude i have so much respect for you.
Yes i'm on here posting and kinda negative because first this game already let all my kids down, they were looking forward to this for i think 2 years now.
When the "this is how stupid we think the fans are" price of $150 hit i told my kids to research this.
Remember they are target market and they came back with something about it being a shallow i win button kotor game. Hearing it's like kotor well i'm a big fan of kotor, but even myself am not sure if I'll waste any of my time on this even for free the more i've looked into it and i'm a star wars fan, not a nut just a fan.
Bioware made mistake.
I love mmo's and i know what i like from them, and i love single player rpg's and i know what i like from them as well. So when i read about AoC i thought nirvana however it was complete opposite, at level 18 i could not wait for the MMO to start and the thought of taking an alt through all the talking bla bla bla, just to get into the mmo, well that was it. They don't mix.
Think about this as I've mentioned before, there is no conclusive ending, so you don't get that satisfaction of a finish or accomplishment, and there is no mmo part either, it's an endless cycle of story with no ending, YAWN!
Immersive... lol, can someone please explain what passes for "immersive story and graphics" these days?
I don't like the word immersive as it's subjective from person to person. There really is no standard in MMOs since so many people value so many different features.
I want to like it so much because I'm a huge star wars fan and I loved galaxies and I will buy it regardless because I'm a huge star wars nerd...
but I'm also a veteran MMO player. I've played UO, Shadowbane, Eve, DAOC, EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, WoW, Rift, and more....
This game just seems like it's building off hype and the star wars name. All the trailers I've seen, all the videos... really leave me with this feeling of "cheesy and another cash cow". It doesn't leave me with this degree of OMG this game is perfection and totally going to kick ass. Reading the features, and keeping up on the game itself... only eight classes, space combat is a joke, and yeah... another korean grind to make you pay money monthly long enough to milk ya. Sigh. I've got it preordered because I'm an idiot lol
Bottom line is I've seen very little in the ways of "this is what other mmo's do, we're going to take that and build on it and improve it in this way" Instead I'm seeing, "AWESOME LIGHTSABER FIGHT!" and what star wars things will be in the game.
If you've ever played a Bioware game, you should know what to expect from it. An epic, interactive story (or in this case, 8 stories, 1 for each class), and fairly basic gameplay. Also there may only be 8 starting classes, but in total there are actually 16 since at level 10 each class gets to choose one of two advanced classes.
Also, I'm not sure where the Korean grind idea comes from, since this will probably be one of the least grindy MMOs to come out. Seeing as how you can basically level through your personal story all the way to level cap, or mostly at least. Gameplay won't be revolutionary as it will be mostly more of the same with Bioware style story added in.
You may have heard the term "WoW in space", and while that's a gross overgeneralization, for the most part it's true. Combat, style, end game, pvp, etc. Some things will be a bit different obviously, like companions, companion crafting, and instead of grinding meaningless kill and gather quests, you're following an interactive story. And that will be the games main draw other than the IP, is the story.
Comments
Awesome, I didn't realise they had posted this finally. So basically the game only requires a very basic computer which leaves (potentially) a huge amount of room for graphical scaling. Thanks for the find Foomerang.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
i'd beg to differ there are sources out there is you do your research the game is set on a 5 yr old graphical standard that doesn't scale very much it's a stylized art in the way wow is, and i've seen wow on killer rigs and it doesn't scale up neither does stwor.
so say we all
Go here, and listen to the comic con panel, skip ahead to 8:17 and Dallas Dickenson says it plain as day "several hundred hours of unique content per class"
And sure, there may be a ton of locations and areas, and NPCs that are overlapped with each class, but keep in mind that it'll more than likely be from a different view-point based on the decisions you've made prior and thereafter. I believe in Bioware to pull it off. Really why would they keep saying that the game is larger than every Bioware game that came before combined if they limited each class to only 20-30 hrs.
This doesn't prove me wrong at all.
content=/=story line.
Story line is just some part of content but it isnt the same as being the whole content itself.
BioWare had problem pumping 20-30hours of storyline into Mass Effect 2/Dragon Age/Dragon age 2. Do you honestly believe they will have 200-300 hours worth of quality storyline per each class? Nope.
It will either be very small stories, variations, shared quests etc.
I wish they made single player RPG with awesome storyline that would last at least 50 hours. That is all the more reason why 1600-2400 hours [8*200-300] of storyline is....impossible.
They said it takes 200 hours to finish up your class story and level up to 50.
This includes all of the combat walk ect ect.
It were the GERMANS i tell you!
Thanks OP because if there was something missing on the mmorpg.com forums, it was ONE more thread like this one.
lol.
In a nutshell this is a single player game with a monthly fee. I too would have much prefered a single player kotor 3 with ME graphics and ui.
Actually, it took 40-50 hours on a 1st time playthrough on average to complete KOTOR and 100+ hours in Dragon Age if you were a completionist, so yes, I certainly can see them do it. As for the stories, we already know that they're very, very different from eachother with a totally different and distinct feel to them per class.
That said, of course not all the 200+ hours per class uo to level cap will be fully unique, after all they already stated several times that you'll also be doing shared quests, World Quests and such, on your route to level cap.
As for content, they already explained what was included in them, it should be regarded as 'questing content' in this context, all the stuff you do while quest leveling and doing some specific quest content.
It's actually 16 classes, you should see the advanced classes as actual classes, like how it was at EQ2 in the beginning or how in AoC 3 very different classes like Barbarian, Ranger and Assassin were all part of the same main class, Rogue. It's the same in SWTOR.
As for space combat, it's a minigame right now, but that doesn't mean it'll always be just that, besides SWG didn't have any space combat at all at launch but added it later on too.
'another korean grind' is just pure nonsense and factually incorrect.
As for improvements, they actually added quite a lot if you paid attention but the basic gameplay is still themepark design, so yeah, if that's not your thing or you've grown sick of themepark gameplay then I can understand how you'd also ignore the improvements or own versions they made of those features.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Why should the term not be used?! Thats the real question, apart from who invented what , Korean grind ist the correct term for games that require an almost infinite XP amount so that you can jump from one level to the other.. as SWToR isn't out yet we cannot hold out the possibility ( altough i do not believe it to be the case ).
And imo Korean style games are boring, unimaginative for its most part and the amount of grind required is almost inhuman, a trend that unfortunately everyone seems to follow this days just because ZOMG ITS KOREAN! ....
Wow... a fanboy that actually has a brain.. thats rare these days.. not that it means much but you got my respect for seeing SW:ToR for what it really is while being a big fan of Starwars or Bioware. I like Bioware myself but i'm not a big fan that i'll run out and buy anything with their name on it. When I seen some of the videos I was also left very unimpressed, the game looks like another run of the mill world of warcraft clone, hell it even has the cartoony-like graphics WoW does. Combat looks exactly like wow from the UI, to the combat flow, hell I bet like rift, some of the skill tips are pulled right from wow with the exact same wording, it works but it leaves a taste that the devs were lazy in my mouth. Mind you when a dev team pretty much just copies wow like Rift and SW:ToR and just puts a diffrent skin over it without doing much diffrent, that doesn't sit well with me. At least GW2 though it'll be simmlar to wow combat wise, they have done some things to the system to make it feel a bit diffrent. Also before you yell GW2 fanboy at me, I hated GW1, Played a trial and just did not care for the game at all, but to me GW2 just sounds alot more intersting than SW:ToR does.
MMORPG players like me aren't asking for a totally unique game, its alright if it uses existing systems, but at least take the effort to try to do something new with it, like GW2 does. SW: ToR and rift, pretty much just copy and pasted the combat system and its flow from world of warcraft and pasted it in their game. I'm more of a killer in mmorpg's I love to kill things, so the combat system is a major part of me enjoying a mmo. games like Rift, and SW:ToR just don't/won't feel fresh enough. I'll still try SW:ToR when their is a trial, but I won't hold my breath of it being anything that isin't run of the mill. Bioware is gonna make a killing on box sales though, but I bet a large number will quit before their free month is up once they relize the game is just world of warcraft/generic mmorpg #7563654 in a star wars skin. Then again I may buy SW:ToR.. I might get someone to get it for me as a gift for the hell of it, not my money being wasted on it.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
Oh and btw. I agree with the fact it looks like crap but graphics mean nothing compared to game-play, and unfortunately there doesn't seem to much in that department either.
YaYa ok you get allot of choices and story talking but do you honestly believe at 50 hours in, 75 hours, 100 hours in you'll even have the slightest idea what was going on 20 hours back and what decisions you made??? You'll be so numbed out with boredom at this point even if you did you wont give a rats butt.
In a nutshell, this is 100% incorrect as well, I advise you to do more research instead of just spreading misinformation on purpose.
SWTOR is an MMORPG, a themepark MMO, deal with it, and it's a themepark MMO that instead of the traditional textbased questing that we're familiar with in current MMO's will have story immersive quests that'll have VO, cinematic cutscenes and your decisions influence the outcome of quests and the follow up quests you receive.
To name a few other examples, GW2 and TSW will have story heavy quests with VO and cutscenes too, does that make those games singleplayer games? No, and neither does it make SWTOR one.
Jeez, you really start to wonder if a number of mmorpg.com posters actually have any concrete experience with themepark MMO's or if they just leave their brains at the door as soon as they start posting here, this constant BS about SWTOR being a 'singleplayer game'
Bullshit. If you dislike SWTOR then don't play it. If you hate quest leveling like SWTOR will implement it, I suggest you try other MMO's where you can mob grind for 100-300 hours to level cap or where you just do textbased quests. It sounds like just the type of MMO's for you.
As for gameplay, instead of people talking nonsense who never even played the game, the majority of people who actually spend time in SWTOR playing the game were happy or positive about the gameplay they experienced, from the few hours they played up to tens of hours of gameplay.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You'll never be satisfied if you're looking for perfection. Typical problem with 'MMO Vets'. It's like the first time you do a serious narcotic drug, you won't be able to experience that "new omg" feeling again.
I simply don't understand the mentality of wearing yourself out on something and expecting the genre to change to meet your new demands.
I was like you, burned out on themepark MMOs and couldn't stand the thought of questing and leveling up. This was about a year ago, since then I started playing EVE and staying away from themeparks.
The time off has 'refreshed' me so-to-speak and I feel like I'll be able to go into TOR with renewed vigor.
If you've been eating steak for years and you've burned out on it, I don't care if the best chef in the world makes you the best steak in the world, you won't want it anymore.
Let MMOs and themeparks go for a while and you might be surprised to learn that you were as much a part of the problem as the genre was.
Oh look a GW2 fanboy...
Trust me when I say this, If you didn't like GW1 then you won't care much for GW2.
Guees your into the anime graphics of GW2, the backgrounds are beautiful in that game, the character models not so much.
In Bioware we trust!
+1 for using common sense and reason, all arguments in this post made sense.
I know he didn't mean 'singleplayer game' literally. But then he might as well say that all themepark MMORPG's are singleplayer games, so I stand by my statement that people saying that about SWTOR either have little experience with themepark MMO's or they hate or dislike them.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
it doesnt look like crap it looks like Global Agenda.
wile there are better looking games ( like Aion and Tera) if the game play is fun and the worlds are large and immersive it wont really matter. the most succesfull mmo to date (WoW) did fine even without the best graphics of it's time.
Immersive... lol, can someone please explain what passes for "immersive story and graphics" these days?
Dude i have so much respect for you.
Yes i'm on here posting and kinda negative because first this game already let all my kids down, they were looking forward to this for i think 2 years now.
When the "this is how stupid we think the fans are" price of $150 hit i told my kids to research this.
Remember they are target market and they came back with something about it being a shallow i win button kotor game. Hearing it's like kotor well i'm a big fan of kotor, but even myself am not sure if I'll waste any of my time on this even for free the more i've looked into it and i'm a star wars fan, not a nut just a fan.
Bioware made mistake.
I love mmo's and i know what i like from them, and i love single player rpg's and i know what i like from them as well. So when i read about AoC i thought nirvana however it was complete opposite, at level 18 i could not wait for the MMO to start and the thought of taking an alt through all the talking bla bla bla, just to get into the mmo, well that was it. They don't mix.
Think about this as I've mentioned before, there is no conclusive ending, so you don't get that satisfaction of a finish or accomplishment, and there is no mmo part either, it's an endless cycle of story with no ending, YAWN!
I don't like the word immersive as it's subjective from person to person. There really is no standard in MMOs since so many people value so many different features.
Why don't you enlighten us? because everyone has their own idea of what they find immersive in a MMO.
If you've ever played a Bioware game, you should know what to expect from it. An epic, interactive story (or in this case, 8 stories, 1 for each class), and fairly basic gameplay. Also there may only be 8 starting classes, but in total there are actually 16 since at level 10 each class gets to choose one of two advanced classes.
Also, I'm not sure where the Korean grind idea comes from, since this will probably be one of the least grindy MMOs to come out. Seeing as how you can basically level through your personal story all the way to level cap, or mostly at least. Gameplay won't be revolutionary as it will be mostly more of the same with Bioware style story added in.
You may have heard the term "WoW in space", and while that's a gross overgeneralization, for the most part it's true. Combat, style, end game, pvp, etc. Some things will be a bit different obviously, like companions, companion crafting, and instead of grinding meaningless kill and gather quests, you're following an interactive story. And that will be the games main draw other than the IP, is the story.