Its a fun game eh? But im only doing it cause im bored...
Yes, his statement had nothing to do with Server issues and lag, but....Taking forever to level while doing nothing but Grinding.. is bad..... Bots... are bad...Its universal that everyone knows that, save 1....
Completely irrelevant to the discussion, but regardless, It was designed to be a grind.
I didnt say anything in my post to justify or contradict the game mechanics of Lineage II by suggesting it was or was not designed to be a grind. I did however imply that because it carries the heavy amount of bots and incredibly repetitive fighting ( grinding ) it is therefore, bad. So, I'll say again, this time a little different. Its universal that everyone knows that, save 2...
No players in an MMO? I'd say thats a bad thing... I wouldnt want to play.... Also... Content Lacks perhaps is what he meant? Use your imagination instead of being a jackass
Now your guessing, what he typed didnt even come close to content lacks. Lack of players is not a sign of a bad launch do to hardware or software. The only one looking like a jackass is you.
Now im guessing? Your right, I had to guess, because these were his exact words... "Planetside(no players, continent locks, lag, etc)" So what I have to go on here is the phrase Continent Locks... Your right, Im guessing that instead of meaning Continent Locks, perhaps he meant Content Lacks when is what i suggested and you deliberatly questioned for whatever reason...So Continent locks is not even close to Content Lacks?.. hmmm Anyway, Lack of players is not a sign of a bad launch.. correct... but it is an MMO... you do know what that stands for right? Hmm check back with me when you figure that out...
Those games dont have nearly as much players as WoW does.. or the amount of servers... Thank you
As you said, they have more servers, the populations per server are limited (or so blizzard found out quickly), so I barely see your point on this. SWG had a rather large launch however, WoW's being bigger is pure speculation.
Ok, the issue was refering to the comment made about an x-list of games that involved issues that "were not happening after 2 months of release" Than i replied with "Those games dont have nearly as much players as WoW does.. blah blah " So i guess, when i said that, I was implying that because their are more people and more servers, their is a heavier load and more of a strain perhaps on the servers? Yes... yes... thats what i was getting at! I dont have to prove anything considering you implied it for me in your statement... "The populations per server are limited ( or so blizzard found out quickly) " .. by that you meant.. a very large amount of people were getting into the game and taking up a large amount of servers no?
Have you found a point yet? .. no? Not clicking yet? Also, not once in any post I have ever written did I speculate, guess, write, or imply that SWG's Launch was bigger than WoW's....I did however say that WoW's Player base is larger, which has nothing to do with a Launch.
"I fear no enemy! For the Khala is my strength! I fear not death. For our strength is eternal!" - Fenix
Originally posted by Vercades Sorry about topic straying but, why do all the "whiner" type threads have the most hits? I mean seriously nothing comes out of it or, none of the whiner threads I've participated in got me anything out of it.
Simple, it's a chance for people to flame others and feel justified about it.
Ahhh, I see. Well I did get something out of this thread, not to visit it no more.
It's getting too sloppy to quote everything, though, so I'll just rant about some random stuff you said.
I still don't understand how having more players is an excuse you're willing to accept because of these server issues. Yes, it's harder to handle that many players, but guess what.. I don't care. I pay the same amount of money no matter how many people are playing, and I want smooth servers, just like in any other game. If Blizzard has twice as many players than other games, then they have twice as much money to spend on their servers.
And he specifically said continent locks. Not content lacks. A continent lock is when you have too many people playing on one continent. Do you see the contradiction yet? No people playing, yet there are so many people playing that there are continent locks.
And bots, macros, adena-farmers, lack of content and repetitive grinding doesn't mean the game had a bad launch.. it just means the game sucks.
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." -- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
Let them whine. If they aren't happy about WoW and how Blizzard is fixing up the game, let them cancel their accounts so the servers will be less laggy!
It's not WoW is lacking population, there are too many! if only a couple servers could lose 1000 players each, the game would run so much smoother. There may also be a chance that the immature players (Who are the main whiners) might cancel their accounts too, and the community will be a lot better.
Originally posted by jimothypetro 3 can play this game. It's getting too sloppy to quote everything, though, so I'll just rant about some random stuff you said. I still don't understand how having more players is an excuse you're willing to accept because of these server issues. Yes, it's harder to handle that many players, but guess what.. I don't care. I pay the same amount of money no matter how many people are playing, and I want smooth servers, just like in any other game. If Blizzard has twice as many players than other games, then they have twice as much money to spend on their servers. And he specifically said continent locks. Not content lacks. A continent lock is when you have too many people playing on one continent. Do you see the contradiction yet? No people playing, yet there are so many people playing that there are continent locks. And bots, macros, adena-farmers, lack of content and repetitive grinding doesn't mean the game had a bad launch.. it just means the game sucks.
Lol Im tired of playing, I wanna go home!
Anyway, with the whole thing about the servers and messing up, and yes, were all paying 14.99 or .95 a month, whatever it is, I too want a smooth server to play on, but the game is still in its infancy and with the increased server load over the holiday, stress has built up. So yeah, while we all got the game in November, it ran just fine until the holiday when what, 600k got the game? something like that? So there was a larger boost of people after the game had already been out. So even though the game came out in November, it was like the game came out again in Christmas... So it was like starting all over again. Anyway, the game is still early on, and im sure we'll see problems for the next x-amount of time to come, but this is their main hurdle, they just need to warm up to it.
Now refering to the infamous "Content locks" statement we've so infomously argued over, I was more defending the guy from the first jackass that came along belching his firey breath. While I see the contradiction in his overall statement, I continued to defend myself in the likeness of the two terms.
and finally, bots, macros.. adena-fag...farmers... Yes, That does make the game bad, I agree whole-heartedly
"I fear no enemy! For the Khala is my strength! I fear not death. For our strength is eternal!" - Fenix
Get off the high pop servers and you won't have problems. %99 of the problems stem from this.
I play on a medium/high pop server for 2 months now, I never lag except IF, the game runs like butter. Even in IF it's tolerable. My machine thrashes for a few seconds to draw the 5000 people standing around, then I can move around and do my trading.
When you first login to the game, it RECOMMENDS a server of the type you request that has a LOW population.
But alot of people bypassed this recommendation, and demanded to jump on the High pop servers. This happened during the first week, and it's still happening. Basically Blizzard was un-prepared for all the people who abuse the server picking screen by jumping on an already overcrowded server.
In the beginning, these overcrowdings were causing servers to crash. Now you have to wait in line, but once you get on the game is silky smooth. I dunno what all these people are talking about "problems", so far I have experienced 2 rollbacks of 10 minutes apiece, and that's basically it.
Just get on a lower pop server and everything is fine.
If Blizzard would have put in the server system like FFXI has, then server problems won't be a problem. Where is that if a new player is joining, it automatically puts that person on the LOWEST populated server. I should to that person that came up with that.
Yeah, I'm complaining. So what, I have every right to.
Also, don't reply saying that it's not fair if they do that, because I want to be with my friends. I would want to have better servers, than to play with my friends any day. I will just make new ones on the server.
600,000(Amount of subscriptions)X50(Cost of game)X15(Monthly Charge)=45,000,000 I believe. Now thats not how much they make but that is the amount of money very very very roughly spent on Blizzard for WoW. Id really think with all of the money they are making they would have the servers upgraded or fixed or something.
Originally posted by Nimrod4154 600,000(Amount of subscriptions)X50(Cost of game)X15(Monthly Charge)=45,000,000 I believe. Now thats not how much they make but that is the amount of money very very very roughly spent on Blizzard for WoW. Id really think with all of the money they are making they would have the servers upgraded or fixed or something.
Even with millions and billions of dollars... we still have one fundamental flaw.... were all human.
"I fear no enemy! For the Khala is my strength! I fear not death. For our strength is eternal!" - Fenix
christ, you people complain a lot about WoW. I have it, and love it. Only time i really get lag is in Ironforge.
If you dont like the lag or can't control your whining...go play everquest 2, or whatever other game you see as being better than WoW. bitching about it on a message board isnt gonna make it go away...
Originally posted by Viceryn christ, you people complain a lot about WoW. I have it, and love it. Only time i really get lag is in Ironforge. If you dont like the lag or can't control your whining...go play everquest 2, or whatever other game you see as being better than WoW. bitching about it on a message board isnt gonna make it go away...
Just like bitching about the people bitching isn't going to make them go away.
Im on the server Kil Jaden which is one of the highest populated servers yet I havent expierienced any lag in a LONG time. Yes the server boots me sometimes but its no big deal. No reason to go nuts over it just do somethin else.
This game has done what me and my friends have been waiting for in a LONG time. They made a game with PvP that WORKS which means... alot more MMOs will be released with PvP.
I am sick of these crappy companies making all the full pvp games.
Oh and :
Planetside having no players and continent locks everywhere does mean that it had a crappy release. I mean no one was playing it! Does that mean its a GOOD release?!? No that means it is BAD! That game has been dieing ever since it was released. I was there in beta when tons of people played it and the game was GREAT but then they had the smart idea for continent locks and it went down hill.
SWG had tons of missing content and TONS of bugs. It was boring and dull for the majority. They released to early and ruined the game (except for the Star Wars fans who keep fighting for its survival)
Shadowbane had a wonderful first few weeks of fun for me since im a fan of full pvp even with the graphics and lag problems. I gave it my full support but the game just got worse and worse as the days went by until it died. R.I.P. -bad release
Anarchy Online... well lets just not talk about that one before I start banging my head against the wall again.
Lineage II was ridiculous. I mean come on there was another bot every few feet that would PvP you on site sometimes and not one that but the leveling took days to get a level. The economy got screwed in the ass by all the EBAY people and well... it was a real dissapointing release!
Theres more I just dont want to go into them... WoW has done good so far in my opinion.
First, if you are denying that there are server issues, you are just straight up not telling the truth. Thousands of players have gone for DAYS at a time not being able to play. Blizzard admits that 20 severs have had days where the "blackout" time was much, much greater than the actual play time. I have characters on one of those servers, so I know what I'm talking about.
I spend a majority of my time on a server not included in the "20", and for good reason. However, even on that server during MEDIUM load times I have seen numerous shut downs (unscheduled), mobs disappearing, disconnects from the server that cost me thousands of experience, etc. So these issues aren't just on "20" of the servers.
Now these are facts. If I talk about this release versus others, that would be my opinion, but everything I just listed above is factual and accurate. It cannot be disputed, by anybody. It all happened. However, facts aren't always as fun as opinions, so I'll give mine...
Gameplay
WoW is an outstanding game. It is very solo friendly. I find the quest system to be very rewarding and entertaining. The best items in the game come from Instances, but even solo, through quests, crafting, and the auction house, you can buy everything you could need. The quest and general loot drops are good enough to allow any character to solo above their level, and the gear you can make and find in instances can make you that much stronger.
In addition, this game is a casual gamer's dream (naturally when its working). You earn rested experience when you don't play the game that effectively give you double exp for your next several kills. This is substantial. After taking a week vacation in December, I came back to around a level and a half worth of "double" exp. Its nice to have that everynight when you login and know when you logout you'll be able to make quick progress the next evening.
One last note. The UI customization in this game enhances the gameplay even more. Its wonderful. I haven't found a system out there as flexible as this one. I can't say enough about the custom UI options as well as the people who have come up with some great add-ons. Its just outstanding.
Community
Okay, here is where I'm going to get into trouble. The community is the pits. It just stinks. I'll give you the tale of two games. In another title I started playing with only one other person who I knew. It wasn't long at all before I met some great people and joined their guild. I eventually came to know a huge majority of the people on the server. This game I came INTO it with a guild. However, the quality of people you are likely to run across for the first time is sporatic at best. There are TONS of kids. And although there are tons of "normal" or "mature" people, it only takes a small minority to ruin it for everybody else. I will bet my last nickel one of them posts and flames me for saying this. And unlike above, this is simply my opinion. However, there aren't many adults that I know who come from various games who would disagree.
Blizzard's Customer Service Another unpopular opinion coming. The Customer Service is aweful. If you are coming from EQ, sure, I'll give you a pat on the back...you've seen worse. But if you are coming from just about any other game out there and you can get the blizzard of stars out of your eyes, you have to admit that the CS is the pits. Blizzard is tight-lipped, slow to respond, and in some cases gets their priorities mixed up. Blizzard tells us nothing for weeks, outside of a few apologies and an apology from the president of the company about what is going on with the servers. Then you will read a "responce" to Penny Arcade where they take the time to talk about what has been going on with very little spin involved. This was after Arcade released a harsh article talking about some of the negatives for the game.
In addition to that, they should have taken an exterminator to those forums of theirs a long time ago. First, they need to fix them so that you can actually log in on a regular basis. Second, they need to start banning people left and right and clean that place up quite a bit. Its almost as bad as it can get in here with all of the fanboys behavior and angry geek rants with no substance going on. Its just out of control. It speaks some to the horrible community I mentioned above, but it speaks more to the lack of management by the company.
As far as priorities are concerned. More people have been banned for calling a kid an "idiot" in two months than probably every game put together all time. People have had their charater's name changed for simply having the same letter appear twice. Blizzard is on you like a tall dog if you even look like you called somebody a name or might be close to the line with your character name, but if you ask them a question about the non-working servers, they all go Helen Keller on you.
Closing
It isn't all doom and gloom. I'm not suggesting for a second that Blizzard has sacrificed years of great customer service and proven competancy as a result of WoW and two months. I'm not even hinting at that. However, I will not turn a blind eye to the problems that exist simply because they are Blizzard. There isn't anything that has been done to date to give Blizzard a good name with this game. They need to drastically change their postion on a lot of things. People like to point to the "free" time they are giving everybody because of the server issues. For those of us with the worst servers, it comes out to seven days. Well at $15/month that comes out to around $3.38. That is $3.38 for hours and hours of downtime, and more importantly game time. The difference is, I'm not always effected by the downtime. However, with a busy schedule, I can miss out on a substantial portion of my limited game or play time. And let's face it, $3.38 isn't anything. I'd make 10x that in an hour at work. What Blizzard doesn't understand, and my point here, it isn't the money. It isn't he $3.38 we are being "given", its the time lost without a good explanation that sits so wrongly with so many.
Trust me, I know Blizzard wants to fix this problem. They are a great company. In fact they aren't making any more copies of the game UNTIL the problems are fixed. That's all one needs to know right there. They are a good company and they aren't just trying to make a buck. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that they have been a little short-sighted and rather obtuse with their current customer base.
Mature debate always welcomed, but I can assure you kids who didn't read half of what I said who have already typed in your flames the only thing you'll get from me is laughs .
Originally posted by Ponzini Games with MUCH worse releases: Anarchy Online(lag was HORRIBLE you couldnt do jack) Everquest (back when it came out it was BAD) Shadowbane(SB.exe errors and quickly died) Planetside(no players, continent locks, lag, etc) Star Wars Galaxies(bugs, lots of content not in, proffessions not working, etc) Lineage II(TONS and TONS of macro bots that completly ruined the game and the fact that it took days to level and was extremly boring) etc etc etc Every MMO has been hell to start out for me and ive played 75% of them when they were released. WoW has had very very little problems these recent issues will pass and it will go back to its perfection again. Oh and I dont get what u mean by u were ok with the first month because I didnt find one bug or have any lag the first month of playing this game minus the first few days which had lag.
Hmm, I agree with you on a couple. AO worst launch ever. L2 just plain sucks anyway. SWG maybe. But not the others. WoW doesnt have the amount of bugs that the others did. But the SERVER DOWNTIME is just atrocius. AND they dont seem to test their patches on a test server, so they just HOPE AND PRAY that their crappy patches work and they dont. So then that = more server downtime. Its just plain stupidity or maybe ignorance on their part. Yeah they gave us 2 free days. OMFG yay! Thats like what.... 35 cents? That doesnt help me any.
Originally posted by Braed First, if you are denying that there are server issues...
I partialy agree with you on the customer service issue and server issues. It can use a boost in responce time. Regarding everything else... It seems that you are taking the extre side. Yes, some servers are having troubles, yes, some people may be immature and act childish, but thats not all the game is. You dont judge the book by a cover. There are easy ways to avoid most of those problems you mentioned. Immature people can be ignored or in a worst case scenario reported. You can join another server so you can play. Some people may say its not the best way to solve the problem and they will be right, its shouldnt be that way. You may have guildies or friends playing on your server, why should u leave? The answer is, you shouldnt. But life and the world around us is not perfect. Things out of our control can and will happen. What we can do is try to avoid it and/or find a reasonable alternative. In my opinion, a reasonable alternative is to start a new class/race character of the opposing faction on another server. Trust me, it will be very interesting for you to play horde if your main is allianace. I joined dif server just so that I can make chars of all races/genders to hear their jokes! Playing a bit, trying those new classes will take a few days and maybe by that time your main char will be playable again. I think that is a resonable alternative to waiting in queues or feeling down because you couldnt join your server. I got lucky, I joined a dif server when my main char was very low so I wasnt realy frustrated from loosing all my exp and releveling from scratch. Add a wonderful gameplay to this and you may like your new character so much taht you will leave your main for weeks and maybe even months! I know several friends that made horde chars for fun and liked them so much they left their 45+ chars to play their new chars on a new server full time. Anywa, like i said, its a reasonable temporary solution to the server problem, do you agree?
Community.. I hear a lot of stuff about how community is bad and such... I personaly think that problem is being WAY overhyped by immature fanbois. I already stated this so many timed, how hard is it to type /ignore <name> or /leave 1 ? That gets rid of the chatter. To get rid of someone who annoys you "physicaly" in WoW then its very easy to report him, or just log of for 5 mins. The worst thing that happend to me was once some guy just looted everything, even though we asked him not to, and loot only what he could use...we booted him from the group, problem solved. The other time this guy kept trying to mine my resource node... it was annoying but it only happened few times, after 1-2 minutes he just left... On the server I play (Magtheridon) community is nothing but great! people buffing each other, people helping kill mobs, people act very mature in groups etc. Community is not worse then any other regular game like EQ or SWG.
Well I respect your opinion. Hopefully if you have the time (I know I was long winded) you will go back and read what I said a second time. I have some VERY complimentary things to say about Blizzard along with the bad and I dedicated twice the space with glowing reviews on the actual gameplay of WoW. I spent basically a paragraph talking about the community.
I've played for extended amounts of time, EQ, DAOC, CoH, and Horizons. WoW without a doubt has the worst community BY FAR. I'm well aware that these people can be ignored. Where I come from, if something sucks you say it sucks. You don't pretend everything is rosey because you have a way to deal with it.
My ignore list is quite extensive in WoW. I'm not sure that I even had a single name on my ignore list after two years of DAOC. I might have ignored one person in EQ. It takes a lot to get that far under my skin. And believe me, with WoW, you get a lot.
However, this has nothing to do with the actual game itself. That much I agree with you on. 100%. But to be fair, this website asks people to grade the community and lets face it, it isn't an 8.3 or whatever. It isn't even a 5, as you'll be hard pressed to find five in ten people worth grouping with. In EVERY other game I have played, after two months I've had a list a mile long of people who I liked, who liked me, and were fun to be around. There are so many kids and idiots playing this game that the decent people are hiding. Game to game there are just as many decent people playing WoW, but with such a HUGE subscription base, and given the popularity of Diablo and SC with the kiddies, you have to get past some of the other layers before they can be found. They are there, its just going to take time.
And I can't believe any "Fanboi" would overhype the community issue. Maybe its just me but I've always characterized "fanbois" as people who blindly turn their head to reality just because company or game X is involved. From the "fanbois" that I see, Blizzard has great communication skills, the community is full of upstanding citizens, and the graphics are a 9.0 (give me a freaking break). In their mind Blizzard can do know wrong, and they ignore logic like us Beta Testers complaing in Open Beta about loot lag when there were 30 servers and 500,000 people and being told to "stfu" and wait for release. Of course now with 600,000 people and 88 servers the problem is still there. Oh, but we were told, "stfu its only release". Well two months is well past "release".
These comments ARE fair, because they are the truth. This doesn't make Blizzard a bad company though. They are going to soon announce the opening of another 80+ servers AND a one time character transfer. Again, like I said before, there are problems, their communication sucks and they've lost control of the community....however, they are a great company, not out looking to make a quick buck, and I have all the faith in the world that these issues will all be resolved in the not to distant future.
A rose bush will grow out of this, but right now its just a lot of promise surrounded by manure.
Braed, Very well said. You won't be poplular on the WoW forum. People seem to hate the idea that a game they like could have a flaw, so they deny and flame anyone who says it does. They can't accept the fact that they can like a game dispite its flaws (Heck I still like SWG, and you want to talk about flaws). You want even more hatred, suggest another game might have done something better (graphics for instance), and watch the place go up in flames.
Ok I dont want to make it seem like im a warcraft fanboi here because im not. I really have had no issues thus far with this game and its been nothin but fun. Theres always something to do and they are updating it further with battlegrounds already.
Now if you have a problem with making friends in the community thats your fault because I know alot of cool people that arent just little kids in the game and usually they tend to be higher level like me. You just got to find them.
Being on one of the highest populated servers (kil jaden) and on full graphics I have no problems at all with lag, gameplay, community, etc.
Thanks Jodo...People are free to attack my opinions all day long. They are just my opinions, and they mean nothing more than the options of anybody else. And as you know, and I'll explain the the poster below you...you can be a supporter of the game and not be a "fanboi" (and I can't tell you how much I hate that term by the way).
Ponzini, first liking or enjoying the game shouldn't put you into any negative category. Again, as I've said several times now on this page...I'm a huge fan of the game, I support and have supported Blizzard for years, and I have all the confidence in the world that a year from now, if I'm play MMORPGs still, this will be the one. We have both had fun with the game. We certainly have that in common.
But a couple things...
First, on the issue of Battlegrounds. This was suppose to be in at release. It was pushed back and that is fine. I don't think Blizzard should receive bad marks for not having it in at release, but I wouldn't exactly give them praise for putting it in down the road either. You make it sound like battlegrounds are coming soon. What would you classify as soon? In the next four weeks? By early Spring? What if I told you late Spring/Early Summer?? I'll tell you what...pick a date, one that is "soon", and then I'll pick a date and we'll bookmark this thread.
Second, I knew somebody would try to throw the friends argument in my face, I just didn't expect it so soon! I never said that I didn't know anybody. I believe I said that my friends list by this time in a game is a mile long. I didn't say I haven't met anybody. And those I have met pretty much to a person agree that most of the decent people are still in "hiding". That is all that I said. And you are definately right...at the higher levels some of the "problem" is diminished. However, nobody in their right mind could deny the overall state of the community, yet after 2000+ votes, on this website, they are getting some of the highest marks out there?? Explain that one to me.
And no, I'm not going to respond to every post made in this thread. Message boards aren't platforms for thought conversion or anything like that. I only post here because I know there are some people out there looking for good honest feedback on this game. I have provided that. Again, my opinions are their own and you are free to have your own, and they aren't any less valid than mine.
Originally posted by Braed However, nobody in their right mind could deny the overall state of the community, yet after 2000+ votes, on this website, they are getting some of the highest marks out there?? Explain that one to me.
This one is easy to explain: It goes back to the whole ego thing. If they mark anything other than 10 than it will bring the rating down, and heaven forbid another game get a higher score. This is probably the worst site if you're looking for accurate ratings.
Interesting. So, at the same time, do these people post poor ratings for games made by competitors, even if they haven't played them? For example, I couldn't imagine somebody who played WoW, having never played EQ2, posting a review on EQ2 and giving them bad ratings for the sake of trying to make a competitor to a game they play look bad. Does this really happen?
EDIT: And if there was any doubt left...check out this link...
That is a thread with 320 responces already. The topic has absolutely nothing to do with playing a video game, and you can see for yourselves all of the great mature posts in that thread.
I'll back up jimothypetro here, and agree that WoW has been the worse release in regard to the server lag.
I bet you never played half of those games at release, anyway.
Lineage 2 - Because it took forver to level it was a bad release? Because there were bots?
PS - So there were no players and continent locks? lol
Everquest - The first few days were bad, but these kind of problems weren't happening after 2 months of release.
SWG, AO, SB - Not in regards to server lag it wasn't worse than WoW's.
I beg to differ, the lag is almost non-existant. What server are you playing on anyway? I look for servers with "low" or "medium" population, such as Silvermoon. It's your problem if you chose a slow and overpopulated server and judged the game's performance to that. SWG was by far the worst lag i've ever had in any MMO; try Bria or Ahazi or even Gorath, they're the worst.
You have to joking or delusional not to acknolwedge that AO was the laggiest MMO created to date.
Comments
"I fear no enemy! For the Khala is my strength! I fear not death. For our strength is eternal!" - Fenix
2 can play this game
Its a fun game eh? But im only doing it cause im bored...
Completely irrelevant to the discussion, but regardless, It was designed to be a grind.
I didnt say anything in my post to justify or contradict the game mechanics of Lineage II by suggesting it was or was not designed to be a grind. I did however imply that because it carries the heavy amount of bots and incredibly repetitive fighting ( grinding ) it is therefore, bad. So, I'll say again, this time a little different. Its universal that everyone knows that, save 2...
Now your guessing, what he typed didnt even come close to content lacks. Lack of players is not a sign of a bad launch do to hardware or software. The only one looking like a jackass is you.
Now im guessing? Your right, I had to guess, because these were his exact words... "Planetside(no players, continent locks, lag, etc)" So what I have to go on here is the phrase Continent Locks... Your right, Im guessing that instead of meaning Continent Locks, perhaps he meant Content Lacks when is what i suggested and you deliberatly questioned for whatever reason...So Continent locks is not even close to Content Lacks?.. hmmm Anyway, Lack of players is not a sign of a bad launch.. correct... but it is an MMO... you do know what that stands for right? Hmm check back with me when you figure that out...
As you said, they have more servers, the populations per server are limited (or so blizzard found out quickly), so I barely see your point on this. SWG had a rather large launch however, WoW's being bigger is pure speculation.
Ok, the issue was refering to the comment made about an x-list of games that involved issues that "were not happening after 2 months of release" Than i replied with "Those games dont have nearly as much players as WoW does.. blah blah " So i guess, when i said that, I was implying that because their are more people and more servers, their is a heavier load and more of a strain perhaps on the servers? Yes... yes... thats what i was getting at! I dont have to prove anything considering you implied it for me in your statement... "The populations per server are limited ( or so blizzard found out quickly) " .. by that you meant.. a very large amount of people were getting into the game and taking up a large amount of servers no?
Have you found a point yet? .. no? Not clicking yet? Also, not once in any post I have ever written did I speculate, guess, write, or imply that SWG's Launch was bigger than WoW's....I did however say that WoW's Player base is larger, which has nothing to do with a Launch.
"I fear no enemy! For the Khala is my strength! I fear not death. For our strength is eternal!" - Fenix
Simple, it's a chance for people to flame others and feel justified about it.
Ahhh, I see. Well I did get something out of this thread, not to visit it no more.
3 can play this game.
It's getting too sloppy to quote everything, though, so I'll just rant about some random stuff you said.
I still don't understand how having more players is an excuse you're willing to accept because of these server issues. Yes, it's harder to handle that many players, but guess what.. I don't care. I pay the same amount of money no matter how many people are playing, and I want smooth servers, just like in any other game. If Blizzard has twice as many players than other games, then they have twice as much money to spend on their servers.
And he specifically said continent locks. Not content lacks. A continent lock is when you have too many people playing on one continent. Do you see the contradiction yet? No people playing, yet there are so many people playing that there are continent locks.
And bots, macros, adena-farmers, lack of content and repetitive grinding doesn't mean the game had a bad launch.. it just means the game sucks.
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
Let them whine. If they aren't happy about WoW and how Blizzard is fixing up the game, let them cancel their accounts so the servers will be less laggy!
It's not WoW is lacking population, there are too many! if only a couple servers could lose 1000 players each, the game would run so much smoother. There may also be a chance that the immature players (Who are the main whiners) might cancel their accounts too, and the community will be a lot better.
___________ ___ __ _ _ _
Stealth - Ambush - Hemorrhage - Sinister Strike x2 - Cold Blood - Eviscerate - Vanish - Preparation - Cold Blood - Ambush - ... you're dead! :P
It allso seems the koreans are having problems with WoW.
http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=general&t=100341&p=1&tmp=1#new100341
Lol Im tired of playing, I wanna go home!
Anyway, with the whole thing about the servers and messing up, and yes, were all paying 14.99 or .95 a month, whatever it is, I too want a smooth server to play on, but the game is still in its infancy and with the increased server load over the holiday, stress has built up. So yeah, while we all got the game in November, it ran just fine until the holiday when what, 600k got the game? something like that? So there was a larger boost of people after the game had already been out. So even though the game came out in November, it was like the game came out again in Christmas... So it was like starting all over again. Anyway, the game is still early on, and im sure we'll see problems for the next x-amount of time to come, but this is their main hurdle, they just need to warm up to it.
Now refering to the infamous "Content locks" statement we've so infomously argued over, I was more defending the guy from the first jackass that came along belching his firey breath. While I see the contradiction in his overall statement, I continued to defend myself in the likeness of the two terms.
and finally, bots, macros.. adena-fag...farmers... Yes, That does make the game bad, I agree whole-heartedly
"I fear no enemy! For the Khala is my strength! I fear not death. For our strength is eternal!" - Fenix
Get off the high pop servers and you won't have problems. %99 of the problems stem from this.
I play on a medium/high pop server for 2 months now, I never lag except IF, the game runs like butter. Even in IF it's tolerable. My machine thrashes for a few seconds to draw the 5000 people standing around, then I can move around and do my trading.
When you first login to the game, it RECOMMENDS a server of the type you request that has a LOW population.
But alot of people bypassed this recommendation, and demanded to jump on the High pop servers. This happened during the first week, and it's still happening. Basically Blizzard was un-prepared for all the people who abuse the server picking screen by jumping on an already overcrowded server.
In the beginning, these overcrowdings were causing servers to crash. Now you have to wait in line, but once you get on the game is silky smooth. I dunno what all these people are talking about "problems", so far I have experienced 2 rollbacks of 10 minutes apiece, and that's basically it.
Just get on a lower pop server and everything is fine.
If Blizzard would have put in the server system like FFXI has, then server problems won't be a problem. Where is that if a new player is joining, it automatically puts that person on the LOWEST populated server. I should
to that person that came up with that.
Yeah, I'm complaining. So what, I have every right to.
Also, don't reply saying that it's not fair if they do that, because I want to be with my friends. I would want to have better servers, than to play with my friends any day. I will just make new ones on the server.
600,000(Amount of subscriptions)X50(Cost of game)X15(Monthly Charge)=45,000,000 I believe. Now thats not how much they make but that is the amount of money very very very roughly spent on Blizzard for WoW. Id really think with all of the money they are making they would have the servers upgraded or fixed or something.
"I fear no enemy! For the Khala is my strength! I fear not death. For our strength is eternal!" - Fenix
christ, you people complain a lot about WoW. I have it, and love it. Only time i really get lag is in Ironforge.
If you dont like the lag or can't control your whining...go play everquest 2, or whatever other game you see as being better than WoW. bitching about it on a message board isnt gonna make it go away...
haha, good point...
Im on the server Kil Jaden which is one of the highest populated servers yet I havent expierienced any lag in a LONG time. Yes the server boots me sometimes but its no big deal. No reason to go nuts over it just do somethin else.
This game has done what me and my friends have been waiting for in a LONG time. They made a game with PvP that WORKS which means... alot more MMOs will be released with PvP.
I am sick of these crappy companies making all the full pvp games.
Oh and :
Planetside having no players and continent locks everywhere does mean that it had a crappy release. I mean no one was playing it! Does that mean its a GOOD release?!? No that means it is BAD! That game has been dieing ever since it was released. I was there in beta when tons of people played it and the game was GREAT but then they had the smart idea for continent locks and it went down hill.
SWG had tons of missing content and TONS of bugs. It was boring and dull for the majority. They released to early and ruined the game (except for the Star Wars fans who keep fighting for its survival)
Shadowbane had a wonderful first few weeks of fun for me since im a fan of full pvp even with the graphics and lag problems. I gave it my full support but the game just got worse and worse as the days went by until it died. R.I.P. -bad release
Anarchy Online... well lets just not talk about that one before I start banging my head against the wall again.
Lineage II was ridiculous. I mean come on there was another bot every few feet that would PvP you on site sometimes and not one that but the leveling took days to get a level. The economy got screwed in the ass by all the EBAY people and well... it was a real dissapointing release!
Theres more I just dont want to go into them... WoW has done good so far in my opinion.
First, if you are denying that there are server issues, you are just straight up not telling the truth. Thousands of players have gone for DAYS at a time not being able to play. Blizzard admits that 20 severs have had days where the "blackout" time was much, much greater than the actual play time. I have characters on one of those servers, so I know what I'm talking about.
I spend a majority of my time on a server not included in the "20", and for good reason. However, even on that server during MEDIUM load times I have seen numerous shut downs (unscheduled), mobs disappearing, disconnects from the server that cost me thousands of experience, etc. So these issues aren't just on "20" of the servers.
Now these are facts. If I talk about this release versus others, that would be my opinion, but everything I just listed above is factual and accurate. It cannot be disputed, by anybody. It all happened. However, facts aren't always as fun as opinions, so I'll give mine...
Gameplay
WoW is an outstanding game. It is very solo friendly. I find the quest system to be very rewarding and entertaining. The best items in the game come from Instances, but even solo, through quests, crafting, and the auction house, you can buy everything you could need. The quest and general loot drops are good enough to allow any character to solo above their level, and the gear you can make and find in instances can make you that much stronger.
In addition, this game is a casual gamer's dream (naturally when its working). You earn rested experience when you don't play the game that effectively give you double exp for your next several kills. This is substantial. After taking a week vacation in December, I came back to around a level and a half worth of "double" exp. Its nice to have that everynight when you login and know when you logout you'll be able to make quick progress the next evening.
One last note. The UI customization in this game enhances the gameplay even more. Its wonderful. I haven't found a system out there as flexible as this one. I can't say enough about the custom UI options as well as the people who have come up with some great add-ons. Its just outstanding.
Community
Okay, here is where I'm going to get into trouble. The community is the pits. It just stinks. I'll give you the tale of two games. In another title I started playing with only one other person who I knew. It wasn't long at all before I met some great people and joined their guild. I eventually came to know a huge majority of the people on the server. This game I came INTO it with a guild. However, the quality of people you are likely to run across for the first time is sporatic at best. There are TONS of kids. And although there are tons of "normal" or "mature" people, it only takes a small minority to ruin it for everybody else. I will bet my last nickel one of them posts and flames me for saying this. And unlike above, this is simply my opinion. However, there aren't many adults that I know who come from various games who would disagree.
Blizzard's Customer Service
Another unpopular opinion coming. The Customer Service is aweful. If you are coming from EQ, sure, I'll give you a pat on the back...you've seen worse. But if you are coming from just about any other game out there and you can get the blizzard of stars out of your eyes, you have to admit that the CS is the pits. Blizzard is tight-lipped, slow to respond, and in some cases gets their priorities mixed up. Blizzard tells us nothing for weeks, outside of a few apologies and an apology from the president of the company about what is going on with the servers. Then you will read a "responce" to Penny Arcade where they take the time to talk about what has been going on with very little spin involved. This was after Arcade released a harsh article talking about some of the negatives for the game.
In addition to that, they should have taken an exterminator to those forums of theirs a long time ago. First, they need to fix them so that you can actually log in on a regular basis. Second, they need to start banning people left and right and clean that place up quite a bit. Its almost as bad as it can get in here with all of the fanboys behavior and angry geek rants with no substance going on. Its just out of control. It speaks some to the horrible community I mentioned above, but it speaks more to the lack of management by the company.
As far as priorities are concerned. More people have been banned for calling a kid an "idiot" in two months than probably every game put together all time. People have had their charater's name changed for simply having the same letter appear twice. Blizzard is on you like a tall dog if you even look like you called somebody a name or might be close to the line with your character name, but if you ask them a question about the non-working servers, they all go Helen Keller on you.
Closing
It isn't all doom and gloom. I'm not suggesting for a second that Blizzard has sacrificed years of great customer service and proven competancy as a result of WoW and two months. I'm not even hinting at that. However, I will not turn a blind eye to the problems that exist simply because they are Blizzard. There isn't anything that has been done to date to give Blizzard a good name with this game. They need to drastically change their postion on a lot of things. People like to point to the "free" time they are giving everybody because of the server issues. For those of us with the worst servers, it comes out to seven days. Well at $15/month that comes out to around $3.38. That is $3.38 for hours and hours of downtime, and more importantly game time. The difference is, I'm not always effected by the downtime. However, with a busy schedule, I can miss out on a substantial portion of my limited game or play time. And let's face it, $3.38 isn't anything. I'd make 10x that in an hour at work. What Blizzard doesn't understand, and my point here, it isn't the money. It isn't he $3.38 we are being "given", its the time lost without a good explanation that sits so wrongly with so many.
Trust me, I know Blizzard wants to fix this problem. They are a great company. In fact they aren't making any more copies of the game UNTIL the problems are fixed. That's all one needs to know right there. They are a good company and they aren't just trying to make a buck. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that they have been a little short-sighted and rather obtuse with their current customer base.
Mature debate always welcomed, but I can assure you kids who didn't read half of what I said who have already typed in your flames the only thing you'll get from me is laughs
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I partialy agree with you on the customer service issue and server issues. It can use a boost in responce time. Regarding everything else... It seems that you are taking the extre side. Yes, some servers are having troubles, yes, some people may be immature and act childish, but thats not all the game is. You dont judge the book by a cover. There are easy ways to avoid most of those problems you mentioned. Immature people can be ignored or in a worst case scenario reported. You can join another server so you can play. Some people may say its not the best way to solve the problem and they will be right, its shouldnt be that way. You may have guildies or friends playing on your server, why should u leave? The answer is, you shouldnt. But life and the world around us is not perfect. Things out of our control can and will happen. What we can do is try to avoid it and/or find a reasonable alternative. In my opinion, a reasonable alternative is to start a new class/race character of the opposing faction on another server. Trust me, it will be very interesting for you to play horde if your main is allianace. I joined dif server just so that I can make chars of all races/genders to hear their jokes! Playing a bit, trying those new classes will take a few days and maybe by that time your main char will be playable again. I think that is a resonable alternative to waiting in queues or feeling down because you couldnt join your server. I got lucky, I joined a dif server when my main char was very low so I wasnt realy frustrated from loosing all my exp and releveling from scratch. Add a wonderful gameplay to this and you may like your new character so much taht you will leave your main for weeks and maybe even months! I know several friends that made horde chars for fun and liked them so much they left their 45+ chars to play their new chars on a new server full time.
Anywa, like i said, its a reasonable temporary solution to the server problem, do you agree?
Community.. I hear a lot of stuff about how community is bad and such... I personaly think that problem is being WAY overhyped by immature fanbois. I already stated this so many timed, how hard is it to type /ignore <name> or /leave 1 ? That gets rid of the chatter. To get rid of someone who annoys you "physicaly" in WoW then its very easy to report him, or just log of for 5 mins. The worst thing that happend to me was once some guy just looted everything, even though we asked him not to, and loot only what he could use...we booted him from the group, problem solved. The other time this guy kept trying to mine my resource node... it was annoying but it only happened few times, after 1-2 minutes he just left...
On the server I play (Magtheridon) community is nothing but great! people buffing each other, people
helping kill mobs, people act very mature in groups etc. Community is not worse then any other regular game like EQ or SWG.
Peace
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Well I respect your opinion. Hopefully if you have the time (I know I was long winded) you will go back and read what I said a second time. I have some VERY complimentary things to say about Blizzard along with the bad and I dedicated twice the space with glowing reviews on the actual gameplay of WoW. I spent basically a paragraph talking about the community.
I've played for extended amounts of time, EQ, DAOC, CoH, and Horizons. WoW without a doubt has the worst community BY FAR. I'm well aware that these people can be ignored. Where I come from, if something sucks you say it sucks. You don't pretend everything is rosey because you have a way to deal with it.
My ignore list is quite extensive in WoW. I'm not sure that I even had a single name on my ignore list after two years of DAOC. I might have ignored one person in EQ. It takes a lot to get that far under my skin. And believe me, with WoW, you get a lot.
However, this has nothing to do with the actual game itself. That much I agree with you on. 100%. But to be fair, this website asks people to grade the community and lets face it, it isn't an 8.3 or whatever. It isn't even a 5, as you'll be hard pressed to find five in ten people worth grouping with. In EVERY other game I have played, after two months I've had a list a mile long of people who I liked, who liked me, and were fun to be around. There are so many kids and idiots playing this game that the decent people are hiding. Game to game there are just as many decent people playing WoW, but with such a HUGE subscription base, and given the popularity of Diablo and SC with the kiddies, you have to get past some of the other layers before they can be found. They are there, its just going to take time.
And I can't believe any "Fanboi" would overhype the community issue. Maybe its just me but I've always characterized "fanbois" as people who blindly turn their head to reality just because company or game X is involved. From the "fanbois" that I see, Blizzard has great communication skills, the community is full of upstanding citizens, and the graphics are a 9.0 (give me a freaking break). In their mind Blizzard can do know wrong, and they ignore logic like us Beta Testers complaing in Open Beta about loot lag when there were 30 servers and 500,000 people and being told to "stfu" and wait for release. Of course now with 600,000 people and 88 servers the problem is still there. Oh, but we were told, "stfu its only release". Well two months is well past "release".
These comments ARE fair, because they are the truth. This doesn't make Blizzard a bad company though. They are going to soon announce the opening of another 80+ servers AND a one time character transfer. Again, like I said before, there are problems, their communication sucks and they've lost control of the community....however, they are a great company, not out looking to make a quick buck, and I have all the faith in the world that these issues will all be resolved in the not to distant future.
A rose bush will grow out of this, but right now its just a lot of promise surrounded by manure.
Braed,
Very well said. You won't be poplular on the WoW forum. People seem to hate the idea that a game they like could have a flaw, so they deny and flame anyone who says it does. They can't accept the fact that they can like a game dispite its flaws (Heck I still like SWG, and you want to talk about flaws). You want even more hatred, suggest another game might have done something better (graphics for instance), and watch the place go up in flames.
Good luck you're gonna need it
Ok I dont want to make it seem like im a warcraft fanboi here because im not. I really have had no issues thus far with this game and its been nothin but fun. Theres always something to do and they are updating it further with battlegrounds already.
Now if you have a problem with making friends in the community thats your fault because I know alot of cool people that arent just little kids in the game and usually they tend to be higher level like me. You just got to find them.
Being on one of the highest populated servers (kil jaden) and on full graphics I have no problems at all with lag, gameplay, community, etc.
I am not a blizzard or warcraft fanboi!
Thanks Jodo...People are free to attack my opinions all day long. They are just my opinions, and they mean nothing more than the options of anybody else. And as you know, and I'll explain the the poster below you...you can be a supporter of the game and not be a "fanboi" (and I can't tell you how much I hate that term by the way).
Ponzini, first liking or enjoying the game shouldn't put you into any negative category. Again, as I've said several times now on this page...I'm a huge fan of the game, I support and have supported Blizzard for years, and I have all the confidence in the world that a year from now, if I'm play MMORPGs still, this will be the one. We have both had fun with the game. We certainly have that in common.
But a couple things...
First, on the issue of Battlegrounds. This was suppose to be in at release. It was pushed back and that is fine. I don't think Blizzard should receive bad marks for not having it in at release, but I wouldn't exactly give them praise for putting it in down the road either. You make it sound like battlegrounds are coming soon. What would you classify as soon? In the next four weeks? By early Spring? What if I told you late Spring/Early Summer?? I'll tell you what...pick a date, one that is "soon", and then I'll pick a date and we'll bookmark this thread.
Second, I knew somebody would try to throw the friends argument in my face, I just didn't expect it so soon! I never said that I didn't know anybody. I believe I said that my friends list by this time in a game is a mile long. I didn't say I haven't met anybody. And those I have met pretty much to a person agree that most of the decent people are still in "hiding". That is all that I said. And you are definately right...at the higher levels some of the "problem" is diminished. However, nobody in their right mind could deny the overall state of the community, yet after 2000+ votes, on this website, they are getting some of the highest marks out there?? Explain that one to me.
And no, I'm not going to respond to every post made in this thread. Message boards aren't platforms for thought conversion or anything like that. I only post here because I know there are some people out there looking for good honest feedback on this game. I have provided that. Again, my opinions are their own and you are free to have your own, and they aren't any less valid than mine.
Interesting. So, at the same time, do these people post poor ratings for games made by competitors, even if they haven't played them? For example, I couldn't imagine somebody who played WoW, having never played EQ2, posting a review on EQ2 and giving them bad ratings for the sake of trying to make a competitor to a game they play look bad. Does this really happen?
EDIT: And if there was any doubt left...check out this link...
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.aspx?fn=wow-general
That is a thread with 320 responces already. The topic has absolutely nothing to do with playing a video game, and you can see for yourselves all of the great mature posts in that thread.
I bet you never played half of those games at release, anyway.
Lineage 2 - Because it took forver to level it was a bad release? Because there were bots?
PS - So there were no players and continent locks? lol
Everquest - The first few days were bad, but these kind of problems weren't happening after 2 months of release.
SWG, AO, SB - Not in regards to server lag it wasn't worse than WoW's.
I beg to differ, the lag is almost non-existant. What server are you playing on anyway? I look for servers with "low" or "medium" population, such as Silvermoon. It's your problem if you chose a slow and overpopulated server and judged the game's performance to that. SWG was by far the worst lag i've ever had in any MMO; try Bria or Ahazi or even Gorath, they're the worst.
You have to joking or delusional not to acknolwedge that AO was the laggiest MMO created to date.