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World of Tanks: A Different Kind of Tanking

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  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Those are all great points Grumpy.  Wish those things didn't exist in the game. 

    Edit:  I don't think the advantages are as big as having an extra pawn or player in a football game.  Still think they are very minor and I've never noticed it, but still good points.

  • comicazecomicaze Member Posts: 147

    Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

    "Pay to Win"  is any feature or function bought with real cash that provides an advantage in gameplay over another player who has not spent such cash.

    It's like playing chess with an extra pawn or football with an extra man on the field.

    Ammo that features extra penetration power, tanks that have better statistics or consumables that can be used in combat are all examples of "pay 2 win".

    This would be opposed to cash shop items that would be purely cosmetic in nature like a fancy paint job, or a commanders flag on an antenna or a custom decal..... or things that provide the player with more play opportunities like content (special maps to play on) or different modes of play.... which may enhance a player enjoyment of the game but don't effect the players ability to compete.

    "Pay 2 Win" is bad enough in PVE focused games, but in pure PvP games it's the anthesis of what a PvP game should be about...which is sportsmanship and fair and freindly competition. In such games, the only difference between the players should be the skills they bring to the field....and their determination to win. It's why football teams have to play with the same number of players on the field and baseball players aren't allowed to "cork" thier bats.

    IMO, saying something is only "slightly" pay to win is kinda like saying someone is "slightly" no longer a virgin. Either you are or you aren't. The idea that the advantages may only be rather small is no excuse when it comes to fair competition.

    In games, when did "winning" or the ability of a company to make money start to take precedence over sportsmanship?  There is nothing wrong with companies wanting to make money....and many have and do that without compromising the principles of fair play. However as gamers, our highest goal should be maintaining the ideal of good "sportsmanship"..... and when game companies start sacrificing the principle in order to make money....our response should be a firm "no thank you. That's not how WE want to play games."

    The INDUSTRY may be concerned with maximizing profits.....but as gamers and hobbiests....our interests aught to be preserving the integrity and purity of game play.  /rant.

     

    This is a nice theory, but in practice it looks quite different.



    First of all, the very definition of the "win" in WoT is rather vague. In one match I got killed at the very first seconds of the battle just by a blind artillery shot, but my team won. Did I win or lose?

    Another match I made 7 kills, got Top Gun, Sniper and Steel Wall, but our base was captured and our team lost. Did I personally win or lose?



    There are game ratings across 10 statistical categories, plus secondary measures, like hit and survaval ratio, plus global rating, which I have no idea how it's calculated, plus a wide range of achievements of very different values. Some of them don't even require to shoot or take any shots, but extremely sought for, like Raider, for example.

    People incline to look at the win/loss ratio first, because it's the easiest to interpret. But most personal rates in this category fall within a very narrow range.



    Speaking about gold consumables and ammo, they don't have any reliable effect at all for a single match. You can get a team of complete noobs and/or stock config tanks and all your money go directly to waste.



    To achieve any noticeable effect players have to buy gold stuff consistently across hundreds of matches. And it is



    1. Very expensive for this kind of entertainment. I can't tell you exact figures, but my 30 bucks evaporated in a few hours of gameplay, when I tried the gold ammo.

    2. Returns are very deferred. You can feel any outcome only after, at least, a few weeks of paying and playing.



    People are very hesitant to pay for something they can't unwrap or scroll through immediately after the CC transaction confirmation screen.



    And in reality, I am speaking from my somewhat considerable WoT experience, people using gold consumables and ammo are very, very rare.

  • comicazecomicaze Member Posts: 147

    Originally posted by finnmacool1

    I wasnt talking meduims vs td specifically. I was talking lopside unbalanced teams. One side with a bunch of one vehicle type and the other having few to none which the matchmaker tries to make up for by overloading a different vehicle type on the opposing side.

    You gave an example where one side was at a very clear disadvantage. It happens very rarely, especially recently.

    Nothing wrong with unbalanced by type teams in general. In "all meds vs all heavies" or "all TDs vs all heavies" situations both sides can win, tactics and personal skills will decide.

     


    Originally posted by finnmacool1

    Where  i shoot from has nothing to do with an enemy one shoting me period. Tanks have 360 degree firing arc, if im manuevering behind a heavy in my medium and shooting the rear close range it is no less able to one shot me than if im firing point blank from the front. The only thing my position affects is MY ability to do damage.

    Again, it has everything to do with your position. Most of the games heavies are spending thier time, simplistically speaking, facing each other, and it's not a bid deal to shoot a med in front, but if you are flanking, to shoot you they have to turn and most likely expose weak spots to the opposing heavies. If you get into one-on-one with a heavy, which you can't circle safely, you are again doing it wrong.

  • RavenmaneRavenmane Member Posts: 246

    In my honest opinion...I like it.  I can't say loved because it does have it's flaws but after you actually get a feel for the game it's hard to not like it.  I thought the review was spot on.  I have a beast of a PC I play this on so I don't really recognise the issues with the higher graphical settings. 

    Being an avid MMO gamer I wouldn't really call this an MMO.  There's really nothing Massive about this.  It'd be like calling Team Fortress 2 an MMO.  The battles don't involve a massive amount of players but it's just the right number to make it interesting.  It is a brutally unforgiving game for the newbie, though.  Prepare to die...a lot.  I think I have survived only 12% of the battles I've fought in.  My buddy had probably died 25 times before getting his first kill.  The game does have a steep learning curve as it requires some thought.  There will also be instances if you're new where you're in your new shiney Tier 1 tank and a Tiger rolls up on you.  Not much you can do but just accept the fact you will not win that fight.

    But there is a little hope.  If you spend the money, premium offers 50% xp and money gained from rounds as well as offer a nice big hangar for your tanks.  But if you don't want to spend the money the Tank Destroyer class tanks are the money makers.  I am currently in a Tier 5 heavy but my garage holds my Tier 3 Artillery (good for picking off incoming tanks to your base, especially if you have upgraded radios), my Tier 4 Tank Destoryer (think Tank Sniper), the aforementioned Tier 5 Heavy Russian, and my Tier 3 Light tank I use when I'm playing with the newer players in my clan.  And that's about 2 weeks of casual playing.

    Once you get into the game it's a lot of fun.  I suggest everyone to at least try it.  It gets better as you go up in Tier and get the more powerful tanks.

    "If at first you don't succeed, excessive force is probably the answer."
  • RustybucketRustybucket Member Posts: 4

    Game had potential but is not living up to its billing. Maps and tanks graphicly are excellant Play is severly laking and hampered by a host of glitches and bugs that at times makes the game extremely frustrating. The maps for the scale of the tanks are just to small. the play focuses on heavy expensive tanks slugging it out on a postage stanp piece of land and the biggest and strongest wins the rest are left as burning wrecks. The other factor that leaves the game disappointing is the fact the Russian tanks are Buffed to the max and German and American are nerfed to aasure a less then 50% success rate in head to head. Clan Wars for the majority of players costs a minimum of 20-30 US dollars a week and to get to the top tiers to compete you are spending real money every week for a premium account. Other wise your month away from a tank tier that a group would even allow on the field. The premise was a good one the current package is not maybe with a little customer service and a more objective balance or historical balnace the game may last. But for now it is just a game of the week and save your pennies for something that has more promise.

  • comicazecomicaze Member Posts: 147

    Originally posted by Rustybucket

    Game had potential but is not living up to its billing. Maps and tanks graphicly are excellant Play is severly laking and hampered by a host of glitches and bugs that at times makes the game extremely frustrating. The maps for the scale of the tanks are just to small. the play focuses on heavy expensive tanks slugging it out on a postage stanp piece of land and the biggest and strongest wins the rest are left as burning wrecks. The other factor that leaves the game disappointing is the fact the Russian tanks are Buffed to the max and German and American are nerfed to aasure a less then 50% success rate in head to head. Clan Wars for the majority of players costs a minimum of 20-30 US dollars a week and to get to the top tiers to compete you are spending real money every week for a premium account. Other wise your month away from a tank tier that a group would even allow on the field. The premise was a good one the current package is not maybe with a little customer service and a more objective balance or historical balnace the game may last. But for now it is just a game of the week and save your pennies for something that has more promise.

    You forgot to say about the broken abysmal matchmaker.

  • Cirn0Cirn0 Member Posts: 162

     Successfully brings FPS and RPG elements together = FPS with lots of grind, not that much of a pros... Dont forget that you'll often face enemies few tiers higher to get your face rolled just so you feel weak and grind for next tier. You might be the top tank sometimes but is it what most people want? To beat kids in a kindergarden? bleh

     

    Men of War > WoT in all aspects of tank warfare and its RTS...

    IZI MODO?! Ha-ha-ha!

  • finnmacool1finnmacool1 Member Posts: 453

    Originally posted by comicaze

    Originally posted by Rustybucket

    Game had potential but is not living up to its billing. Maps and tanks graphicly are excellant Play is severly laking and hampered by a host of glitches and bugs that at times makes the game extremely frustrating. The maps for the scale of the tanks are just to small. the play focuses on heavy expensive tanks slugging it out on a postage stanp piece of land and the biggest and strongest wins the rest are left as burning wrecks. The other factor that leaves the game disappointing is the fact the Russian tanks are Buffed to the max and German and American are nerfed to aasure a less then 50% success rate in head to head. Clan Wars for the majority of players costs a minimum of 20-30 US dollars a week and to get to the top tiers to compete you are spending real money every week for a premium account. Other wise your month away from a tank tier that a group would even allow on the field. The premise was a good one the current package is not maybe with a little customer service and a more objective balance or historical balnace the game may last. But for now it is just a game of the week and save your pennies for something that has more promise.

    You forgot to say about the broken abysmal matchmaker.

    Not broken, just abysmal.

  • trash656trash656 Member UncommonPosts: 361

    *shakes head* This game isn't an MMO. This game is a instanced tank simulation game played with other people just like most fps games. Theres nothing about this game that makes it an MMO. I think the people working at mmorpg really need to start doing some research of their own. No offence.

  • trash656trash656 Member UncommonPosts: 361

    Originally posted by GrumpyMel2



    "Pay to Win"  is any feature or function bought with real cash that provides an advantage in gameplay over another player who has not spent such cash.



    It's like playing chess with an extra pawn or football with an extra man on the field.



    Ammo that features extra penetration power, tanks that have better statistics or consumables that can be used in combat are all examples of "pay 2 win".



    This would be opposed to cash shop items that would be purely cosmetic in nature like a fancy paint job, or a commanders flag on an antenna or a custom decal..... or things that provide the player with more play opportunities like content (special maps to play on) or different modes of play.... which may enhance a player enjoyment of the game but don't effect the players ability to compete.



    "Pay 2 Win" is bad enough in PVE focused games, but in pure PvP games it's the anthesis of what a PvP game should be about...which is sportsmanship and fair and freindly competition. In such games, the only difference between the players should be the skills they bring to the field....and their determination to win. It's why football teams have to play with the same number of players on the field and baseball players aren't allowed to "cork" thier bats.



    IMO, saying something is only "slightly" pay to win is kinda like saying someone is "slightly" no longer a virgin. Either you are or you aren't. The idea that the advantages may only be rather small is no excuse when it comes to fair competition.



    In games, when did "winning" or the ability of a company to make money start to take precedence over sportsmanship?  There is nothing wrong with companies wanting to make money....and many have and do that without compromising the principles of fair play. However as gamers, our highest goal should be maintaining the ideal of good "sportsmanship"..... and when game companies start sacrificing the principle in order to make money....our response should be a firm "no thank you. That's not how WE want to play games."



    The INDUSTRY may be concerned with maximizing profits.....but as gamers and hobbiests....our interests aught to be preserving the integrity and purity of game play.  /rant.



     


     

    grumpy you are the most educated gamer here. I think maybe if mmorpg hired you maybe you could give some of these 20 year olds a history lesson.

  • randmprandmp Member Posts: 54

    I have been playing this game for about a month and from playing it that amount of time I have to say  It is the biggest pile of cow dung i have played!!!!

    If anyone remember's APB when RTW had it, The mtachmaking system was a total fail. Well this game has almost the same matchmaking system and it is 2 times as bad as APB was. 

    I dont see it being around much longer. No one wants to play a game where you have no chance of doing any damage to the other tanks and you get one shooted when you try and take on any tank form the other side.

    /rant

  • rnohsrnohs Member Posts: 1

    I am playing this game since its beta release.

     

    1) Whether its MMO or not? Well I am not the only one playing it at one particular instance of time..and ya I need internet connection to play... so well ya its MMO... Some1 pointed it as co-op.. i aint playing with a couple of friends on LAN.

    2) learning curve and online tutorials: its not that big of a learning curve.. very simple controls and click to shoot.... Getting a kill is tough and that shouldnt be thought of as learning curve... its more about players tactics and skill.

    3) the graphics: absolutely awesome, notice the dust from the tracks, the holes in the tank when shells come right through them.

     

    About this review: Its a bad review.

     

    Whats really painful about this game is long grinding to get the necessary  credits for research when you reach tier 5 (for f2p).

    Other than that its a perfect game. There is a strategy involved for each kind of tank..How skilled you are in playing that makes the difference.

     

     

     

     

  • howardbhowardb Member Posts: 286

    This game has nothing to do with a simulation as it says in the mmorpg newsletter. I remember being very excited about WoT when I first heard of it. That's until I got to try it myself that is. This game is a heresy to anyone who knows only just a little about WWII.

    Let me recap a few points:

    - hitpoints. Tanks shouldn't have hitpoints. You either hit and penetrate or you don't. If you penetrate you do x amount of damage depending on shell, where you hit, what kind of vehicle and the chance factor. I'm also impressed at how your crew manage to repair your tracks within seconds.

    - The game is set during WWII as apparent by the locations. Mixing up tanks from all different nations is ridiculous. You have battles where your side has tigers, jagdpanthers, IS and Shermans. It's just dumb and totally breaks immersion. It should've been broken down into different eras and sides. You pick the german side you will only have german tanks available to you etc.

    - There's prototype tanks everywhere. It's stupid. Most of these tanks didn't even get off the drawing board. Hell if your side has 5 tiger tanks you will probably loose because in this company that's like a light tank. And anything Soviet is über. Russian devs so I guess that explains itself. It does make their product worse nevertheless.

    - Artillery in this game is just incredibly gay. It uses some kind of GPS system to target enemy tanks. Artillery shouldn't be used in a direct capacity like you do in WoT at all.

    There's a lot more about this game that is retarded. I really wanted to enjoy the game but the lack of realism prevented me no matter how much I tried.

  • cibetkacibetka Member UncommonPosts: 7

    I played dozens of MMOs, and World of Tanks is one of my favorites. And yes, its a MMO. You realize this once you get really involved into it. Its not just a combat, there are clans, with team speak, forums, FB groups, there is world map where clans battle for territories, there are diplomacy forums, espionage and many other things. I got more MMO experience from this game, then some 'real' MMOs I played. Its true that for casual player out of clan or in small clan this may not seem so, but once you get involved, it changes.

    The game component is awsome. You cant get bored of it. Even random battles have that CS element, that its always different no metter how many times you play particular map. Hundreds of different tanks, tactics and infinite possible situations. And its also very dynamic if you know what you are doing. And in clan and company battles, there is whole new element of tactics and organization into it.

    Finaly, learning curve might be slow, we were all nubs once, and tank strength metters ofc, but none of this is crucial. Once you master the game, and reach top tank tiers, its all about skill and outwiting enemy, not the tank. Spending money is not a must, although it helps save time. Premium ammo now can be bought with in-game credits, so everyone can use it. You can buy one premium vehicle once and earn enough credits with it forever, and if you are in good clan, they all earn premium currency by holding territories on clan war map. Comparing this to 'free to play' games like SWToR and others, this game wins by far, cause you can get everything with hard work, and nothing is unreachable.

  • Teran1987Teran1987 Member UncommonPosts: 202

    This guy play the game game I played? >.>

     

    "Successfully brings FPS and RPG elements together" - Uh, what RPG aspect?

    This is NOT an MMO...this is a P2W game. The community is much like that of LoL or Counter-Strike. And it's a huge grindfest.

    "Life is not judged by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away."

  • IchmenIchmen Member UncommonPosts: 1,228

    while i have played WoT since its closed beta days... i can honestly say this review is a tad strange. 

    while i found the tiers above 5 boring as hell given some hit boxes on tanks and the really annoying "penetrate = 0 damage" of some shells. i cant fathom why they would paint WoT as this super great game. 

    its fun sure... but its also pretty heavy P2W as well. while recently they did switch gold rounds to normal credits (abit massively expensive for their usage) the game is still very heavy cashshopped from some of the harder to hit cash shop tanks, to the fact most clans are heavy cash spenders. any one who is remotely casual freedium is pretty much screwed. as clans do not take on people who arent max tanked or who dont spend cash on the game. as they simply cant compete.  when the repair kits for cash are loads better then the standard kits or the fact almost every clan focuses on gold rounds (sure they arent really needed. but when you hit a maus and the standard shell will only pen and do 0 damage... you will want gold rounds to actually damage it)

     

    all in all the game is ok if you treat it like a FPS and just login blow stuff up for abit then logout.  i havent touched it in a month or two now. not since they put in the physics which while nice... make the game a zerg ram fest more then an actual tank game.

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