you don't need to do full loot, just partial loot. Asheron's Call did it right when you died, and you lost 3 or so of your most expensive items. It also depends on your level, the higher lvl the more items you drop, the lower level, the less items. This made it exciting and a sense of danger. Death Items becamse a popular thing so when you died you would drop these higher value items, and they were fun to collect and keep to protect you from dropping your good armor and weapons. MIss that damn game !
ehhhh....the partial loot system AC used just led to DI farming....it was just tedious at some points...vets rarely droped anything of real value to them.
i like Darkfalls loot system, in AC vets could do careless or just straight dumb stuff and get owned and not have been impacted very much if at all....not the case in DF.
I just hope you're not basing your OP soley on something like DFO or MO. Back in UO there was a truly diverse community, where both reds and normals lived in the same world, PK's were hunted down and dealt with, this doesn't really happen in DFO or those games because all who play are basically reds, who prey on the weak.
Yeah i agree....The type of full loot sandbox being offered right now are games designed from the ground up strictly to be Full loot PvP sandboxes, where as the games that they drew there inspirations from were built from the ground up to be pure sandboxes...EvE is the exception but sadly doesnt appeal to people as much as a fantasy sandbox would.
But il take it however i can get it at this point.
I haven't read the rest of the thread just thought I'd pop an idea that came into mind after seeing forum title.
Wild West PvP Full loot with fps mechanics - open world, limited weapons/technology. Instead of vast open boring freedom I'm thinking small towns linked with packed terrain. Player housing (within pre-existing towns) so you can store all your loot. Stored loot can't be taken away from you so at least you got something to go home to. Of course some sort of in game bounty system as well where you can offer up gold into an npc pool where infamous players can be hunted down! Perhaps hunt your own bounty haha.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
you don't need to do full loot, just partial loot. Asheron's Call did it right when you died, and you lost 3 or so of your most expensive items. It also depends on your level, the higher lvl the more items you drop, the lower level, the less items. This made it exciting and a sense of danger. Death Items becamse a popular thing so when you died you would drop these higher value items, and they were fun to collect and keep to protect you from dropping your good armor and weapons. MIss that damn game !
I played Ashrons Call for more than two years. At the time, I quite enjoyed it. But I would NOT want to go back to corpse runs and lost gear. I remember having to keep two or three sets of armor and weapons in the vault, just so I'd have a *chance* of getting my gear back. Some times, you just had to write it off. I remember death items. I also remember the Dev's continued attempt to make sure that it was your gear that dropped, rather than the most expensive things you had with you. ^^
I simply will not play games that have gear loss these days. I'm also well past my being willing to play MMO PvP type games. Life is too short to waste time entertaining the Goonies of the world. ^^
PvP is not fun or exciting for me if there is no risk or potential for loss.
sounds like somebody who puts very little value on their real life free time. the only way they can feel like they lost something is if they lose virtual items in addition to all the real life time they lost.
For me it's the feeling of risk vs reward, I put my neck on the line, to be rewarded.
When Darkfall first launched, I still remember killing a dude with a raft on him, it was me and a buddy of mine vs 3 people, and this was when rafts sold for a lot.
I saw someone mention the frustration it must cause, but what I do is this...
Whatever I take with me when I intend to go kill other players, I already count as lossed, Only the stuff in my bank is really mine, and when you die you gotta think positive like, -"You win some, you lose some".
Because you are gonna die sooner or later, it's just a matter of time.
I love FFA PvP, but there has to be a good system to make people think about attacking some stranger.
Darkfalls system was horrible though, was just a big arena with nothing else to do but kill eachother which is part of the reason why I left, that and the fact that you had to macro to keep up with everyone else, and abusing of bugs like the acid pits, lol.
But as others have said, the sense of danger is amazing, venturing into an area you know is gonna be trouble, now that is exploring!
I'm curious as to what makes this appealing to some people.
From my perspective, it sounds like it would be a real pain in the arse. You spend 'X' amount of hours crafting/finding "gear", someone/something kills you, you die, and someone takes all your stuff. Making the time you put into getting your "gear" useless.
Now, I know people say in these types of games to "only use what you can afford to lose." But, what then is the point to get anything better? If there's an "Epic Sword of Uber Doom" or a "Super Ship of Mega Awesomeness", that take days/weeks/months to aqquire, what's the point if you're never going to use it, or risk losing it if you do?
All that said, I could be looking at this all wrong and am just missing the point. But from where I'm standing, it seems like a huge time waster.
Thoughts?
-Z
If you really want to understand the appeal of something like that, go play a roguelike game. You can spend hours/days working your way through the game, building up your character, and then one careless momemt and BAM. You're dead. Game over and you need to start from scratch. You would think that would become frustrating but the reality is it makes it so much more fun. You need the game to be designed with lots of replayability though for this to work...
the problem is Zolgar's view of the game,
clearely he has not played a Full loot PvP game if he believes you spend x amount of time getting your gear only to lose it to some pk.
full loot pvp games are not about gear (you change gear as fast as yo uchange underwear. swords break, armor rusts.) , they are about your character skills, friends, alliances, territory control, and the big one, HOW SMART ARE YOU? i mean seriously, you need to think twice before attacking that legendary dragon, cuz you know you will die if you are not careful.
these types of games simply make you think about what you do and not mindlessly ME SMASH EVERYTHING, MOAR SMASH FOR ME!! caveman mentality.
I'm curious as to what makes this appealing to some people.
From my perspective, it sounds like it would be a real pain in the arse. You spend 'X' amount of hours crafting/finding "gear", someone/something kills you, you die, and someone takes all your stuff. Making the time you put into getting your "gear" useless.
Now, I know people say in these types of games to "only use what you can afford to lose." But, what then is the point to get anything better? If there's an "Epic Sword of Uber Doom" or a "Super Ship of Mega Awesomeness", that take days/weeks/months to aqquire, what's the point if you're never going to use it, or risk losing it if you do?
All that said, I could be looking at this all wrong and am just missing the point. But from where I'm standing, it seems like a huge time waster.
Thoughts?
-Z
If you really want to understand the appeal of something like that, go play a roguelike game. You can spend hours/days working your way through the game, building up your character, and then one careless momemt and BAM. You're dead. Game over and you need to start from scratch. You would think that would become frustrating but the reality is it makes it so much more fun. You need the game to be designed with lots of replayability though for this to work...
the problem is Zolgar's view of the game,
clearely he has not played a Full loot PvP game if he believes you spend x amount of time getting your gear only to lose it to some pk.
full loot pvp games are not about gear (you change gear as fast as yo uchange underwear. swords break, armor rusts.) , they are about your character skills, friends, alliances, territory control, and the big one, HOW SMART ARE YOU? i mean seriously, you need to think twice before attacking that legendary dragon, cuz you know you will die if you are not careful.
these types of games simply make you think about what you do and not mindlessly ME SMASH EVERYTHING, MOAR SMASH FOR ME!! caveman mentality.
Dude probably thinks you have to grind raids for 2 months at 10 hours a day and then you die and have to start over on the raids.
But really sandboxes are all about crafted gear and it doesn't take that long to replace. Hell in real sandbox games gears dies even if you win every time.
Its all about perspective. He cannot conceive of the joys of full loot pvp in sandboxes because he is so messed up by themepark brainwashing and gear score grinding that he doesn't realize it hasn't got to be like that.
clearely he has not played a Full loot PvP game if he believes you spend x amount of time getting your gear only to lose it to some pk.
full loot pvp games are not about gear (you change gear as fast as yo uchange underwear. swords break, armor rusts.) , they are about your character skills, friends, alliances, territory control, and the big one, HOW SMART ARE YOU? i mean seriously, you need to think twice before attacking that legendary dragon, cuz you know you will die if you are not careful.
these types of games simply make you think about what you do and not mindlessly ME SMASH EVERYTHING, MOAR SMASH FOR ME!! caveman mentality.
Smart players win in every game so full-loot games are no different in that respect. But I'd say full-loot systems are actually harmful for PvP because how it changes player behavior. Combat becomes scarce and one-sided and good fights become rare. You can't help it: players are cowards. That is not good in my book.
Other than that, I've not seen a full-loot game with advanced encounter mechanics demanding more thought than games that don't have it. Full-loot is a tack-on to make encounters interesting when they really are not that different from other games. Often worse. Tank 'n' spank doesn't require much thought with or without full loot -> The "legendary" dragon is as dumb as a rock with or without full-loot.
I'd much rather see a game with interesting encounters rather than mediocre/dull encounters boosted feebly with harsh death penalty.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
clearely he has not played a Full loot PvP game if he believes you spend x amount of time getting your gear only to lose it to some pk.
full loot pvp games are not about gear (you change gear as fast as yo uchange underwear. swords break, armor rusts.) , they are about your character skills, friends, alliances, territory control, and the big one, HOW SMART ARE YOU? i mean seriously, you need to think twice before attacking that legendary dragon, cuz you know you will die if you are not careful.
these types of games simply make you think about what you do and not mindlessly ME SMASH EVERYTHING, MOAR SMASH FOR ME!! caveman mentality.
Smart players win in every game so full-loot games are no different in that respect. But I'd say full-loot systems are actually harmful for PvP because how it changes player behavior. Combat becomes scarce and one-sided and good fights become rare. You can't help it: players are cowards. That is not good in my book.
Other than that, I've not seen a full-loot game with advanced encounter mechanics demanding more thought than games that don't have it. Full-loot is a tack-on to make encounters interesting when they really are not that different from other games. Often worse. Tank 'n' spank doesn't require much thought with or without full loot -> The "legendary" dragon is as dumb as a rock with or without full-loot.
I'd much rather see a game with interesting encounters rather than mediocre/dull encounters boosted feebly with harsh death penalty.
disagree with pretty much everything you jsut said. fullloot open pvp creates encounters, Example roaming in the wilderness and coming across another loanly player. can you trust him? should you work together or travel together? is he gonig to lead you into an ambush? is he just gonig to attacvk you? should you attack him? is there anything of his you consider valuable? possibly you should contact some freinds to come close by just incase? should you start running? the possibilities open pvp and full loot open from simple mundane encounters and the potential for interesting events make it one of THE most important features that take advantage of the rpg/massively multiplayer side of mmorpgs.
in these knid of games, you are never turely safe. from either thieves, robbers, murderers etc.. but at the same time theres plenty of chance encounters and heroic deeds that play out over the course of each and everyday.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
clearely he has not played a Full loot PvP game if he believes you spend x amount of time getting your gear only to lose it to some pk.
full loot pvp games are not about gear (you change gear as fast as yo uchange underwear. swords break, armor rusts.) , they are about your character skills, friends, alliances, territory control, and the big one, HOW SMART ARE YOU? i mean seriously, you need to think twice before attacking that legendary dragon, cuz you know you will die if you are not careful.
these types of games simply make you think about what you do and not mindlessly ME SMASH EVERYTHING, MOAR SMASH FOR ME!! caveman mentality.
Smart players win in every game so full-loot games are no different in that respect. But I'd say full-loot systems are actually harmful for PvP because how it changes player behavior. Combat becomes scarce and one-sided and good fights become rare. You can't help it: players are cowards. That is not good in my book.
Other than that, I've not seen a full-loot game with advanced encounter mechanics demanding more thought than games that don't have it. Full-loot is a tack-on to make encounters interesting when they really are not that different from other games. Often worse. Tank 'n' spank doesn't require much thought with or without full loot -> The "legendary" dragon is as dumb as a rock with or without full-loot.
I'd much rather see a game with interesting encounters rather than mediocre/dull encounters boosted feebly with harsh death penalty.
disagree with pretty much everything you jsut said. fullloot open pvp creates encounters, Example roaming in the wilderness and coming across another loanly player. can you trust him? should you work together or travel together? is he gonig to lead you into an ambush? is he just gonig to attacvk you? should you attack him? is there anything of his you consider valuable? possibly you should contact some freinds to come close by just incase? should you start running? the possibilities open pvp and full loot open from simple mundane encounters and the potential for interesting events make it one of THE most important features that take advantage of the rpg/massively multiplayer side of mmorpgs.
in these knid of games, you are never turely safe. from either thieves, robbers, murderers etc.. but at the same time theres plenty of chance encounters and heroic deeds that play out over the course of each and everyday.
when you actually have risk, yes the encounters are far more interesting.
granted, it might happen that you are going to place A and on the way you run into a group farminx x thing, and you get slaughtered before you have the chance to say "OH SH.."
but also you have war. when people start forming alliances and have territory control, you spend your time building up an army (the better alliances will be able to equip their soldiers) you defend your keep, territory, while also amassing troops for war.
can you imagine 200 v 200 at the same time? and contrary to general belief, people will not go out fighting with sticks and wooden swords, they will wear their finest armor and their finest swords to maximise their chances of surviving the war. (also note since gear is not central to the game, they probably have 4 other sets of the same gear in the bank, AND the alliance most likely has a couple of hundreds more in storage)
if you die? oh well, you had a blast while it lasted, you just go to the bank get your spare gear and place an order to your alliance blacksmith who will craft you 3 other sets for the price of 1.
The thing to me is I wouldn't play a full loot pvp game unless all I want to do is pvp. It take alot of other element from the game, I wouldn't want to go out and mine etc, just to have my items taken. Dungeons and raids etc plays alot lesser part in this kind of game too etc.
if you die? oh well, you had a blast while it lasted, you just go to the bank get your spare gear and place an order to your alliance blacksmith who will craft you 3 other sets for the price of 1.
Ok great, then where is the risk?
Some people keep saying this is risk. This is not risk.
There is absolutely no risk if your gear can easily be replaced.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
if you die? oh well, you had a blast while it lasted, you just go to the bank get your spare gear and place an order to your alliance blacksmith who will craft you 3 other sets for the price of 1.
Ok great, then where is the risk?
Some people keep saying this is risk. This is not risk.
There is absolutely no risk if your gear can easily be replaced.
the risk is when you cant easily replace it...
except according to his post, all one has to do it to ask the clan crafters to make a few more.
If you are going to have risk then as you say, all gear should be hard to replace and spare gear should be just the minimum to get you by.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I would rather have perma death over full loot. Grabbing loot through pvp encourages mindless gank sytle pvp. Eve has the right idea. If you loose your ship it gone and you have to get another.
I would rather have perma death over full loot. Grabbing loot through pvp encourages mindless gank sytle pvp. Eve has the right idea. If you loose your ship it gone and you have to get another.
In EVE your destroyed ship also drops your equipment you put into it, which is often more expensive than the ship itself.
I've played a full-loot... limited gear... with death penalties... open pvp game. It was glorious.
But here is what made it work.
1) Getting gear from PvE wasn't obnoxious. Load rates were high and plentiful. Characters frequently had extra sets of gear strored in their banks... though at a point, it started to cost money to store the gear... so it also made a good economic factor.
2) Players had a quick escape option... and it could be used by players on one another... say your group gets jumped and one of your best guildmates is targetted... you could zap him right out of battle back to home saving the rare limit gear he might have.
3) Stealth characters were more of the scout/intel/utility variety - not the
I've played a full-loot... limited gear... with death penalties... open pvp game. It was glorious.
But here is what made it work.
1) Getting gear from PvE wasn't obnoxious. Load rates were high and plentiful. Characters frequently had extra sets of gear strored in their banks... though at a point, it started to cost money to store the gear... so it also made a good economic factor.
2) Players had a quick escape option... and it could be used by players on one another... say your group gets jumped and one of your best guildmates is targetted... you could zap him right out of battle back to home saving the rare limit gear he might have.
3) Stealth characters were more of the scout/intel/utility variety - not the
I think it has to do with the game's mechanics. If most of the lost loot can be obtained or replaced without huge trouble it wouldnt hurt so much loosing it. Most ppl when they think of full lot pvp they resemble upon their own expiriences from the mmorpg's they played. Yes if u raided hard or pvp in arenas in wow for example and someone took your loot yes i agree its ridiculous.Full loot wont fit there.
If we imagine though an mmorpg with gear not adding huge stats on players stats for example, most of the gear craftable also, obtain good random generated gear by just killing random mobs in the wild or inside dungeons i dont think full loot would be a problem.
Besides frustration is apart of a game especially when when it involves competition. hell u should see frustration in the guild after wiping in simple bosses in x raid. Success brings joy failure,wipes,dying in pvp does not. Thats natural.
A game is succesfull when it borns strong fewlings on players,good or bad ,joy,or sadness, thats proof we r still humane right guys? we aint zombies or something. A game without strong excitements though is boring.
Comments
ehhhh....the partial loot system AC used just led to DI farming....it was just tedious at some points...vets rarely droped anything of real value to them.
i like Darkfalls loot system, in AC vets could do careless or just straight dumb stuff and get owned and not have been impacted very much if at all....not the case in DF.
Yeah i agree....The type of full loot sandbox being offered right now are games designed from the ground up strictly to be Full loot PvP sandboxes, where as the games that they drew there inspirations from were built from the ground up to be pure sandboxes...EvE is the exception but sadly doesnt appeal to people as much as a fantasy sandbox would.
But il take it however i can get it at this point.
Scoreboard
FFA Full PvP games popularity, longevity and profitablity almost zero.
Non Full Loot games popularity, longevity and profitabiity sky high.
Not many people like to play in the gutter.
I haven't read the rest of the thread just thought I'd pop an idea that came into mind after seeing forum title.
Wild West PvP Full loot with fps mechanics - open world, limited weapons/technology. Instead of vast open boring freedom I'm thinking small towns linked with packed terrain. Player housing (within pre-existing towns) so you can store all your loot. Stored loot can't be taken away from you so at least you got something to go home to. Of course some sort of in game bounty system as well where you can offer up gold into an npc pool where infamous players can be hunted down! Perhaps hunt your own bounty haha.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
Successfull Full Loot PvP MMO's = AC1,UO,EVE,DF
Not so Successfull Full Loot PvP MMO"S= Shadowbane,Mortal Online
Successfull Non Full Loot PvP MMO's = DAOC
Not so Successfull Non Full Loot PvP MMO's = AOC,Warhammer,DCUO,
No im not putting WOW or TOR as any kind of PvP mmo because there just not lol.
I played Ashrons Call for more than two years. At the time, I quite enjoyed it. But I would NOT want to go back to corpse runs and lost gear. I remember having to keep two or three sets of armor and weapons in the vault, just so I'd have a *chance* of getting my gear back. Some times, you just had to write it off. I remember death items. I also remember the Dev's continued attempt to make sure that it was your gear that dropped, rather than the most expensive things you had with you. ^^
I simply will not play games that have gear loss these days. I'm also well past my being willing to play MMO PvP type games. Life is too short to waste time entertaining the Goonies of the world. ^^
sounds like somebody who puts very little value on their real life free time. the only way they can feel like they lost something is if they lose virtual items in addition to all the real life time they lost.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
I'm a fan of looting everything that is not equipped. However, any cash that is on your character and whatever is in your backpack is fair game.
This encourages more city use, which I really like. People will be more apt to return home to bank whatever gold they find and/or rare items.
For me it's the feeling of risk vs reward, I put my neck on the line, to be rewarded.
When Darkfall first launched, I still remember killing a dude with a raft on him, it was me and a buddy of mine vs 3 people, and this was when rafts sold for a lot.
I saw someone mention the frustration it must cause, but what I do is this...
Whatever I take with me when I intend to go kill other players, I already count as lossed, Only the stuff in my bank is really mine, and when you die you gotta think positive like, -"You win some, you lose some".
Because you are gonna die sooner or later, it's just a matter of time.
I love FFA PvP, but there has to be a good system to make people think about attacking some stranger.
Darkfalls system was horrible though, was just a big arena with nothing else to do but kill eachother which is part of the reason why I left, that and the fact that you had to macro to keep up with everyone else, and abusing of bugs like the acid pits, lol.
But as others have said, the sense of danger is amazing, venturing into an area you know is gonna be trouble, now that is exploring!
the problem is Zolgar's view of the game,
clearely he has not played a Full loot PvP game if he believes you spend x amount of time getting your gear only to lose it to some pk.
full loot pvp games are not about gear (you change gear as fast as yo uchange underwear. swords break, armor rusts.) , they are about your character skills, friends, alliances, territory control, and the big one, HOW SMART ARE YOU? i mean seriously, you need to think twice before attacking that legendary dragon, cuz you know you will die if you are not careful.
these types of games simply make you think about what you do and not mindlessly ME SMASH EVERYTHING, MOAR SMASH FOR ME!! caveman mentality.
Dude probably thinks you have to grind raids for 2 months at 10 hours a day and then you die and have to start over on the raids.
But really sandboxes are all about crafted gear and it doesn't take that long to replace. Hell in real sandbox games gears dies even if you win every time.
Its all about perspective. He cannot conceive of the joys of full loot pvp in sandboxes because he is so messed up by themepark brainwashing and gear score grinding that he doesn't realize it hasn't got to be like that.
Smart players win in every game so full-loot games are no different in that respect. But I'd say full-loot systems are actually harmful for PvP because how it changes player behavior. Combat becomes scarce and one-sided and good fights become rare. You can't help it: players are cowards. That is not good in my book.
Other than that, I've not seen a full-loot game with advanced encounter mechanics demanding more thought than games that don't have it. Full-loot is a tack-on to make encounters interesting when they really are not that different from other games. Often worse. Tank 'n' spank doesn't require much thought with or without full loot -> The "legendary" dragon is as dumb as a rock with or without full-loot.
I'd much rather see a game with interesting encounters rather than mediocre/dull encounters boosted feebly with harsh death penalty.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
disagree with pretty much everything you jsut said. fullloot open pvp creates encounters, Example roaming in the wilderness and coming across another loanly player. can you trust him? should you work together or travel together? is he gonig to lead you into an ambush? is he just gonig to attacvk you? should you attack him? is there anything of his you consider valuable? possibly you should contact some freinds to come close by just incase? should you start running? the possibilities open pvp and full loot open from simple mundane encounters and the potential for interesting events make it one of THE most important features that take advantage of the rpg/massively multiplayer side of mmorpgs.
in these knid of games, you are never turely safe. from either thieves, robbers, murderers etc.. but at the same time theres plenty of chance encounters and heroic deeds that play out over the course of each and everyday.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
when you actually have risk, yes the encounters are far more interesting.
granted, it might happen that you are going to place A and on the way you run into a group farminx x thing, and you get slaughtered before you have the chance to say "OH SH.."
but also you have war. when people start forming alliances and have territory control, you spend your time building up an army (the better alliances will be able to equip their soldiers) you defend your keep, territory, while also amassing troops for war.
can you imagine 200 v 200 at the same time? and contrary to general belief, people will not go out fighting with sticks and wooden swords, they will wear their finest armor and their finest swords to maximise their chances of surviving the war. (also note since gear is not central to the game, they probably have 4 other sets of the same gear in the bank, AND the alliance most likely has a couple of hundreds more in storage)
if you die? oh well, you had a blast while it lasted, you just go to the bank get your spare gear and place an order to your alliance blacksmith who will craft you 3 other sets for the price of 1.
The thing to me is I wouldn't play a full loot pvp game unless all I want to do is pvp. It take alot of other element from the game, I wouldn't want to go out and mine etc, just to have my items taken. Dungeons and raids etc plays alot lesser part in this kind of game too etc.
To instill the fear of death back into the gamer.
In theory... (I'm really starting to hate the lack of unicode on these forums)
Ok great, then where is the risk?
Some people keep saying this is risk. This is not risk.
There is absolutely no risk if your gear can easily be replaced.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
except according to his post, all one has to do it to ask the clan crafters to make a few more.
If you are going to have risk then as you say, all gear should be hard to replace and spare gear should be just the minimum to get you by.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You still need to farm the material which takes maybe 30m, 1hr, 2 hr etc. I think that's what he mean.
As compare to wow if you loss your epic xxx, which takes you month to get.
I would rather have perma death over full loot. Grabbing loot through pvp encourages mindless gank sytle pvp. Eve has the right idea. If you loose your ship it gone and you have to get another.
In EVE your destroyed ship also drops your equipment you put into it, which is often more expensive than the ship itself.
Doesn't fix anything.
I've played a full-loot... limited gear... with death penalties... open pvp game. It was glorious.
But here is what made it work.
1) Getting gear from PvE wasn't obnoxious. Load rates were high and plentiful. Characters frequently had extra sets of gear strored in their banks... though at a point, it started to cost money to store the gear... so it also made a good economic factor.
2) Players had a quick escape option... and it could be used by players on one another... say your group gets jumped and one of your best guildmates is targetted... you could zap him right out of battle back to home saving the rare limit gear he might have.
3) Stealth characters were more of the scout/intel/utility variety - not the
WTFIJUSTAPPEAREDFROMNOWHEREANDDID123W4123DPSTOYOUANDNOWYOUAREDEADANDIDISAPPEAR-variety.
Sounds cool, whats the game?
If you say SWG pre-NGE im going to hang someone...
Adrenaline.
I think it has to do with the game's mechanics. If most of the lost loot can be obtained or replaced without huge trouble it wouldnt hurt so much loosing it. Most ppl when they think of full lot pvp they resemble upon their own expiriences from the mmorpg's they played. Yes if u raided hard or pvp in arenas in wow for example and someone took your loot yes i agree its ridiculous.Full loot wont fit there.
If we imagine though an mmorpg with gear not adding huge stats on players stats for example, most of the gear craftable also, obtain good random generated gear by just killing random mobs in the wild or inside dungeons i dont think full loot would be a problem.
Besides frustration is apart of a game especially when when it involves competition. hell u should see frustration in the guild after wiping in simple bosses in x raid. Success brings joy failure,wipes,dying in pvp does not. Thats natural.
A game is succesfull when it borns strong fewlings on players,good or bad ,joy,or sadness, thats proof we r still humane right guys? we aint zombies or something. A game without strong excitements though is boring.