My question would be why have anyone die, knocked out, or defeated then at all? The idea / mechanic itself is to represent the consequences of failure. If there are no consequences, why even have the mechanism for failure?
While you might be sarcastic in your comments, I don't care to guess your intentions, I think there is an interesting question here.
I tend to prefer a death penalty, but as you point out, if a game lacks the real sense of failure, perhaps a completely different kind of mechanic is in order. It sounds like there isn't much of a mechanic at all here to account for failure, which is unfrotunate, and makes you one ask why there is the chance of this "non-failure" failure at all.
I'm sure with enough time and thought most of us could come up with a mechanic that would remove the death animation (as it sounds like that's really all this is) and replace it with a system that is tied into the game-play style more. Perhaps as you approach 0 health you are forced out of the action in some other method (incapcitated, covered in debris, etc) so that you cannot add to the fight until your health reaches X level. Or your character is forced to retreat and again removed from the action until X health is regenerated.
I understand that the more you use the med droid the longer it takes to get the chance to use them again, but again that seems like adding failure into a system that doesn't really account for failure.
It works pretty much like in Rift, you have a Soulwalk ability to ress on the same spot, but if you die again it takes some minutes to allow you to use it again.
Theres no penalty but the armor takes some durability loss and you eventually have to repair it. Pretty much a normal system, dont get all this fuss
Well, it does specifically say that a 'medical droid' will ressurect you, but doesn't go into any more detail. So maybe there will be a 1hr cooldown on its use, or maybe you have to purchase these droids and can only hold so many ~ 3 max sounds good to me?
Still though, I've always been one in favor of a death penalty,{including substantial XP loss} though it doesn't have to be like in the past running through multiple zones nekid as a jay bird, trying to locate where you frantically died at. Or in more worse occasions having to call in your high level friend or a GM to drag your corpse from the bottom of the ocean or river of lava...ah those were the days...le sigh
No more EQ1 toil. I do not enjoy spending my off hours at night trying a corpse run.
Call me whatever if you need to, I see games as vehicles for relaxed moments after work. At this moment in life, I enjoy a game in which I can walk away anytime and come back to resume, like chess. I find it ridiculous to play a game in which I need more uninterruptible attention, or I need to spend a few hours to recover from some stupid penalty imposed on me, and worst of all, I am paying money to be punished, to be strapped to my computer chair.
No thanks, life at work is stressful enough.
That is why I am playing solo RPG now, I can press esc anytime and talk to people, family, friends whenever they need me to, or whenever I want to.
Come to think of it, I understand why I dropped EQ1/DAoC for CoX/WoW, there are enough semi solo things to do, particularly in WoW, when I cannot afford the continuous time for a group venture. Maybe eventually Sw:ToR will fill in the void now, if they managed to make that game diversed and fun.
I really thought that bore repeating! A great many people (myself included) do not require a ridiculous 'death penalty' for a game to be considered fun. In fact, it's the opposite. I don't pay to play a game for the 'honor' of spending 10 minutes running back to my corpse and hoping that my 'stuff' hasn't been eaten by the server monster. Been through that 20 years ago thankyouverymuch, and in no way do I want to go back to that game model!
Well, it does specifically say that a 'medical droid' will ressurect you, but doesn't go into any more detail. So maybe there will be a 1hr cooldown on its use, or maybe you have to purchase these droids and can only hold so many ~ 3 max sounds good to me?
Still though, I've always been one in favor of a death penalty,{including substantial XP loss} though it doesn't have to be like in the past running through multiple zones nekid as a jay bird, trying to locate where you frantically died at. Or in more worse occasions having to call in your high level friend or a GM to drag your corpse from the bottom of the ocean or river of lava...ah those were the days...le sigh
There will be an increasing cooldown of sorts. The more you die, the longer you will have to wait to resurrect, making it more time efficient to just return to your bind point after a while. Just how steep the cooldown will be remains to be seen, however.
Personally, I hate the old school uber death penalties (major loss of EXP and potentially all of your gear as well), but I definitely feel some penalty must exist. Exploration of dangerous, potentially deadly territory or experimentation with crazy combat tactics should not be discouraged, but neither should stupid, bad play be encouraged.
So, I was defending this game earlier today. But NO Penalty is hilarious and freaking lame. Even though I have RL friends playing this, my excitement is waning by the announcement (didn't know this before this post even though others knew this in june). I'm trying understand how they thought this was a good idea?? They are clearly trying to out easy WoW. This game is making WoW look like MO or Darkfall hahaha.
Afraid to lose even one paying customer at the expense of making the game mildly thrilling....
If you are so brave, you can impose your own death penalty.
If you are braver than brave, you can delete your own toon every time you die.
There is no need for any penalty, you can have as much penalty as you can bear by imposing them yourself.
I guess I can't really comment on it until I experience it's implementation first hand.
I'm tempted to say that it's lame, that you should at LEAST have to respawn back at the cloning point. But Bioware may surprise me and pull this off in a way that doesn't take the thrill and challenge completely out of the game.
One MMO did some serious polling of players, and found that the biggest death penalty effect was from the delay getting back into the action. Losses of other things were of much lower concern (though granted this wasn't a raid-til-you-get-a-rare-drop game). Their take on it was that the time spent getting back into the fight was the most serious death penalty they could impose.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I guess I can't really comment on it until I experience it's implementation first hand.
I'm tempted to say that it's lame, that you should at LEAST have to respawn back at the cloning point. But Bioware may surprise me and pull this off in a way that doesn't take the thrill and challenge completely out of the game.
thats how it used to be but they changed it due to tester feedback
And the response from Georg is ridiculous as well. You took away corpse runs because beat testers didn't like it? Of course the beta testers didn't like corpse running... nobody does. That's why it's called a PENALTY for death.
Honestly, they may as well rename this game Carebears in Space if they plan on caving to every players request.
No. I'm a bit amazed (just kidding, this is the internet) that you think we would operate like that. But yes - if 95% of testers tell you that you have a problem, you listen. You don't shut your ears and sing to yourself 'they're carebears, they hate any penalty'.
We added this option because the impact of the 'walk back from medcenter' penalty, in our game, is huge - worse than in comparable MMOs. Here's why:
The distances in a world that is built to scale, on planets like Tatooine, are vast.
A lot of the content is not instanced and is open world and you don't enjoy fighting your way back deep into the objective areas when you die. We're not talking about 1-3 minutes of walking. In some cases, we're talking about 10-15 minutes of repeating content. That's not fun.
As Daniel explained, we're not shy of making challenging content that is interesting to overcome.
But content does not get more challenging by giving it a harsh, repetitive death penalty - penalties just happen after the fact and do not, in any way or form, make the content more challenging, fun or even difficult.
The only challenge a really harsh death penalty adds is to player's patience or tolerance to repeating the same content over and over. Most people don't find that fun, and we don't either.
By adding this system, we are able to create content that kills the player once or twice until they figure out how to overcome it. We can create challenges and players are given a chance to overcome them. They can afford to fail, regroup and try again instead of spending 15 minutes sitting around while some player tries to make his way back to the group.
If you are looking for hardcore and punishing death penalties that weed out the weak players (e.g. the ones that don't have infinite patience and time), The Old Republic will not be your game. That does not mean we're attempting to make an extremely easy game with no challenge.
My take on death penalty is that it should be designed to encourage and help the player finish the content.
Take chess. When we play with a junior, after he make a mistake, we let him take back a move or 2 and figure out a better move. We do not throw away the board and have him run around the courtyard picking up the chess pieces here and there, do 100 press ups and restart a new game. That defeats the purpose of a game.
And I do not see how a lenient treatment and helpful "death" treatment fails to encourage enjoyment of the gaming session. Flogging a toddler after he falls from his first few steps will not provide additional "gaming thrill".
Games are for fun. Even as an adult, and, for those of us exploring a new content a new game, we are somehow "new" to the game, just like a learner.
Harsh death penalties have no place in themeparks anyways.
Having lighter death penalties (or no death penalties) means they can make bosses a lot harder. Ie, for an inexperienced group, expect to die 10+ times before failing the mission.
Like in Vindictus, where there's 0 death penalty, the newest boss that just got added was so hard for casual players that many people were unable to beat it even after 12+ attempts on the first day (each attempt usually takes 30 minutes to an hour). Usualy these entail 4-5+ deaths per attempt.
However, after 2 weeks most people have the experience of fighting him, and even casual players could probably find a PUG that can beat it after a few failed attempts.
That sound resonable if the world is that massive i would rather have it that way. and the more you die the longer the timer gets so it is a penalty if you die multiple times.
But games have removed to much death penalty in games, i hated corpse running in wow also. Not from instance runs as those was short but there could be a long run in the world. At the same time i do not want to not have any penalty as that make games lame.
Just like 1st person games with that god awfull inbuilt godmode comeon, for real. i dont even need to enter a code to get godmode??? >_<
There is something like to much deathpenalty but there can also be to little off it.
I will need to try Tor befor i can realy comment as it sounds reasonable, Anet actualy have a worse look on this and is boreding on what we see in 1st person games. Stil im gonna play gw2 and realy looking forward to it but i dont agree at all with theyr no death penalty opinion.
the way it works is that it rez you at low health and you get a 12 second stealth that lets you move away from the mob so you won't aggro right away. then you need to heal back up. and everytime you use it within a certain amount of time, it takes longer to rez.
Then comes a huge load of information
hope all this helps
Thank you very much Gaou. That should settle the topic.
P.S.
Originally posted by LisXia
If you are so brave, you can impose your own death penalty.
If you are braver than brave, you can delete your own toon every time you die.
There is no need for any penalty, you can have as much penalty as you can bear by imposing them yourself.
BRAVO! I would love to see how many Death Penalty lovers would do this.
I recall when the emasculation of mmo's began several years ago, as convenience replaced risk, as one story goes.
I faintly recall some thorough research finding there to be a better appreciative balance between a harsh and non-existent death penalty, as we might expect in SW:TOR being non-existent. I'll have to find it. Certianly the lack of those components of death risk hasn't persuaded 60-70% of mmorpg box purchasers, over the last several years, to remain in a themepark mmorpg world within their first 3-6 months on most occasions
But in the meantime, from Wolfshead, Twelve starving men sat down at a table. Before them was placed a sumptuous banquet. Then one of the men protested: “I don’t like salt…”. So in order not to offend him the others agreed to remove the salt from the table. Then another man exclaimed: “I detest pepper…”. So in order not to anger him they all consented to remove the pepper from the table. Each remaining man rose in turn and protested yet another ingredient until there was nothing left on the table. With nothing left to eat the twelve men died of hunger.
My question would be why have anyone die, knocked out, or defeated then at all? The idea / mechanic itself is to represent the consequences of failure. If there are no consequences, why even have the mechanism for failure?
While you might be sarcastic in your comments, I don't care to guess your intentions, I think there is an interesting question here.
I tend to prefer a death penalty, but as you point out, if a game lacks the real sense of failure, perhaps a completely different kind of mechanic is in order. It sounds like there isn't much of a mechanic at all here to account for failure, which is unfrotunate, and makes you one ask why there is the chance of this "non-failure" failure at all.
I'm sure with enough time and thought most of us could come up with a mechanic that would remove the death animation (as it sounds like that's really all this is) and replace it with a system that is tied into the game-play style more. Perhaps as you approach 0 health you are forced out of the action in some other method (incapcitated, covered in debris, etc) so that you cannot add to the fight until your health reaches X level. Or your character is forced to retreat and again removed from the action until X health is regenerated.
I understand that the more you use the med droid the longer it takes to get the chance to use them again, but again that seems like adding failure into a system that doesn't really account for failure.
I wasn't being sarcastic and I might add it'd serve you well in life not to guess the intentions of others. Asking instead of assuming (which others on this thread clearly have chosen the latter) paints you in brighter colors. The question was a serious, direct one.
Even in Mario brothers you had a finite amount of lives before you had to start over. Unless you cheated and got infinite lives.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Originally posted by Cik_Asalin I recall when the emasculation of mmo's began several years ago, as convenience replaced risk, as one story goes. I faintly recall some thorough research finding there to be a better appreciative balance between a harsh and non-existent death penalty, as we might expect in SW:TOR being non-existent. I'll have to find it. Certianly the lack of those components of death risk hasn't persuaded 60-70% of mmorpg box purchasers, over the last several years, to remain in a themepark mmorpg world within their first 3-6 months on most occasions But in the meantime, from Wolfshead, Twelve starving men sat down at a table. Before them was placed a sumptuous banquet. Then one of the men protested: I dont like salt . So in order not to offend him the others agreed to remove the salt from the table. Then another man exclaimed: I detest pepper . So in order not to anger him they all consented to remove the pepper from the table. Each remaining man rose in turn and protested yet another ingredient until there was nothing left on the table. With nothing left to eat the twelve men died of hunger.
Its... a video game. What do you want the death penalty to be? When video games came out, death meant you inserted 25 cents to continue. Its a game. Its entertainment. Is there an mmo out there thats handing death penalties the way you prefer?
I recall when the emasculation of mmo's began several years ago, as convenience replaced risk, as one story goes.
I faintly recall some thorough research finding there to be a better appreciative balance between a harsh and non-existent death penalty, as we might expect in SW:TOR being non-existent. I'll have to find it. Certianly the lack of those components of death risk hasn't persuaded 60-70% of mmorpg box purchasers, over the last several years, to remain in a themepark mmorpg world within their first 3-6 months on most occasions
But in the meantime, from Wolfshead, Twelve starving men sat down at a table. Before them was placed a sumptuous banquet. Then one of the men protested: “I don’t like salt…”. So in order not to offend him the others agreed to remove the salt from the table. Then another man exclaimed: “I detest pepper…”. So in order not to anger him they all consented to remove the pepper from the table. Each remaining man rose in turn and protested yet another ingredient until there was nothing left on the table. With nothing left to eat the twelve men died of hunger.
Its... a video game. What do you want the death penalty to be? When video games came out, death meant you inserted 25 cents to continue. Its a game. Its entertainment. Is there an mmo out there thats handing death penalties the way you prefer?
I recall when the emasculation of mmo's began several years ago, as convenience replaced risk, as one story goes.
I faintly recall some thorough research finding there to be a better appreciative balance between a harsh and non-existent death penalty, as we might expect in SW:TOR being non-existent. I'll have to find it. Certianly the lack of those components of death risk hasn't persuaded 60-70% of mmorpg box purchasers, over the last several years, to remain in a themepark mmorpg world within their first 3-6 months on most occasions
But in the meantime, from Wolfshead, Twelve starving men sat down at a table. Before them was placed a sumptuous banquet. Then one of the men protested: “I don’t like salt…”. So in order not to offend him the others agreed to remove the salt from the table. Then another man exclaimed: “I detest pepper…”. So in order not to anger him they all consented to remove the pepper from the table. Each remaining man rose in turn and protested yet another ingredient until there was nothing left on the table. With nothing left to eat the twelve men died of hunger.
Maybe mmo's have just passed you by and you should look for a new hobby.
Nobody is dying, the mmo market is getting bigger and more lucrative as time passes.
Originally posted by gaou Originally posted by Foomerang
Originally posted by Cik_Asalin I recall when the emasculation of mmo's began several years ago, as convenience replaced risk, as one story goes.
I faintly recall some thorough research finding there to be a better appreciative balance between a harsh and non-existent death penalty, as we might expect in SW:TOR being non-existent. I'll have to find it. Certianly the lack of those components of death risk hasn't persuaded 60-70% of mmorpg box purchasers, over the last several years, to remain in a themepark mmorpg world within their first 3-6 months on most occasions But in the meantime, from Wolfshead, Twelve starving men sat down at a table. Before them was placed a sumptuous banquet. Then one of the men protested: I dont like salt . So in order not to offend him the others agreed to remove the salt from the table. Then another man exclaimed: I detest pepper . So in order not to anger him they all consented to remove the pepper from the table. Each remaining man rose in turn and protested yet another ingredient until there was nothing left on the table. With nothing left to eat the twelve men died of hunger.
Its... a video game. What do you want the death penalty to be? When video games came out, death meant you inserted 25 cents to continue. Its a game. Its entertainment. Is there an mmo out there thats handing death penalties the way you prefer?
RMT!!!! lol arcade games are just old school cash shops. maybe thats what we need in an mmo. when you die, your credit card gets charged 25 cents.
I tend to agree with Khalathwyr, what's the point of having character death at all if the only penalty is having to wait longer after consequetive deaths to respawn? Why not cut out the middle man entirely? Did they leave death in TOR simply to make the world feel more realistic?
When I heard Reid say it was a corrective treatment, I couldn't help but laugh a little. It's completely baffling to me in a comical sort of way, and it almost reminds me of the LEGO games for consoles, in which you have a health bar but no life/restart system. You simply die, and respawn. I'm also a bit puzzled by my own reaction, and I'm curious why I find it so odd to do this. Personally, I think it's just the conditioning from older games speaking here, but I thought dying was supposed to be a bad thing?
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
My question would be why have anyone die, knocked out, or defeated then at all? The idea / mechanic itself is to represent the consequences of failure. If there are no consequences, why even have the mechanism for failure?
While you might be sarcastic in your comments, I don't care to guess your intentions, I think there is an interesting question here.
I tend to prefer a death penalty, but as you point out, if a game lacks the real sense of failure, perhaps a completely different kind of mechanic is in order. It sounds like there isn't much of a mechanic at all here to account for failure, which is unfrotunate, and makes you one ask why there is the chance of this "non-failure" failure at all.
I'm sure with enough time and thought most of us could come up with a mechanic that would remove the death animation (as it sounds like that's really all this is) and replace it with a system that is tied into the game-play style more. Perhaps as you approach 0 health you are forced out of the action in some other method (incapcitated, covered in debris, etc) so that you cannot add to the fight until your health reaches X level. Or your character is forced to retreat and again removed from the action until X health is regenerated.
I understand that the more you use the med droid the longer it takes to get the chance to use them again, but again that seems like adding failure into a system that doesn't really account for failure.
I wasn't being sarcastic and I might add it'd serve you well in life not to guess the intentions of others. Asking instead of assuming (which others on this thread clearly have chosen the latter) paints you in brighter colors. The question was a serious, direct one.
Even in Mario brothers you had a finite amount of lives before you had to start over. Unless you cheated and got infinite lives.
I think the question needs to be asked that if death really isn't the intention of such systems and not what these games want to really include, than why don't they replace it with a different mechanic one the more suits their intentions with the game.
While not really a directly related to the discussion of death penality, I am reminded of my first play through of Shadow of Colossus, and how it took me a good hour to realize that I was basically just playing a platform game. All the mechanics were there, just appeared different. Once I accepted that, the game made sense on a completely different level.
Sometimes I think developers don't want to admit that the mechanics they have picked are not exactly the mechanics that match the game they want to make.
If I'm not mistaken, when you use the probe it takes longer to recharge for the next use. And then there is the durability penalty.
I don't know about anyone else but I don't have a HUGE problem with this. I mean sure it makes it easier (unless you die a lot) but I don't play games to run around for hours as a ghost trying to rez...
It works pretty much like in Rift, you have a Soulwalk ability to ress on the same spot, but if you die again it takes some minutes to allow you to use it again.
Theres no penalty but the armor takes some durability loss and you eventually have to repair it. Pretty much a normal system, dont get all this fuss
Yeah, it takes 30 minutes before you can Soulwalk again. Unless they have changed it.
I guess it just blows my mind that people find systems like EQs and Asheron's Call's vitae system so debilitating that, "<*sigh* and raise a hand to the forehead like Miss Scarlet> I just don't know what I'll ever do now. I surely can't play the game anymore."
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I wasn't being sarcastic and I might add it'd serve you well in life not to guess the intentions of others. Asking instead of assuming (which others on this thread clearly have chosen the latter) paints you in brighter colors. The question was a serious, direct one.
Even in Mario brothers you had a finite amount of lives before you had to start over. Unless you cheated and got infinite lives.
Now doesn't the way in which the medical probe is set up, basically offer such a device? You have a set amount of chances before you're better off just going back to square one (cloning in a facility).
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
Comments
While you might be sarcastic in your comments, I don't care to guess your intentions, I think there is an interesting question here.
I tend to prefer a death penalty, but as you point out, if a game lacks the real sense of failure, perhaps a completely different kind of mechanic is in order. It sounds like there isn't much of a mechanic at all here to account for failure, which is unfrotunate, and makes you one ask why there is the chance of this "non-failure" failure at all.
I'm sure with enough time and thought most of us could come up with a mechanic that would remove the death animation (as it sounds like that's really all this is) and replace it with a system that is tied into the game-play style more. Perhaps as you approach 0 health you are forced out of the action in some other method (incapcitated, covered in debris, etc) so that you cannot add to the fight until your health reaches X level. Or your character is forced to retreat and again removed from the action until X health is regenerated.
I understand that the more you use the med droid the longer it takes to get the chance to use them again, but again that seems like adding failure into a system that doesn't really account for failure.
It works pretty much like in Rift, you have a Soulwalk ability to ress on the same spot, but if you die again it takes some minutes to allow you to use it again.
Theres no penalty but the armor takes some durability loss and you eventually have to repair it. Pretty much a normal system, dont get all this fuss
I really thought that bore repeating! A great many people (myself included) do not require a ridiculous 'death penalty' for a game to be considered fun. In fact, it's the opposite. I don't pay to play a game for the 'honor' of spending 10 minutes running back to my corpse and hoping that my 'stuff' hasn't been eaten by the server monster. Been through that 20 years ago thankyouverymuch, and in no way do I want to go back to that game model!
There will be an increasing cooldown of sorts. The more you die, the longer you will have to wait to resurrect, making it more time efficient to just return to your bind point after a while. Just how steep the cooldown will be remains to be seen, however.
Personally, I hate the old school uber death penalties (major loss of EXP and potentially all of your gear as well), but I definitely feel some penalty must exist. Exploration of dangerous, potentially deadly territory or experimentation with crazy combat tactics should not be discouraged, but neither should stupid, bad play be encouraged.
If you are so brave, you can impose your own death penalty.
If you are braver than brave, you can delete your own toon every time you die.
There is no need for any penalty, you can have as much penalty as you can bear by imposing them yourself.
I guess I can't really comment on it until I experience it's implementation first hand.
I'm tempted to say that it's lame, that you should at LEAST have to respawn back at the cloning point. But Bioware may surprise me and pull this off in a way that doesn't take the thrill and challenge completely out of the game.
One MMO did some serious polling of players, and found that the biggest death penalty effect was from the delay getting back into the action. Losses of other things were of much lower concern (though granted this wasn't a raid-til-you-get-a-rare-drop game). Their take on it was that the time spent getting back into the fight was the most serious death penalty they could impose.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
thats how it used to be but they changed it due to tester feedback
GeorgZoeller
Joined: May 2010
06.08.2011 , 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDreason
And the response from Georg is ridiculous as well. You took away corpse runs because beat testers didn't like it? Of course the beta testers didn't like corpse running... nobody does. That's why it's called a PENALTY for death.
Honestly, they may as well rename this game Carebears in Space if they plan on caving to every players request.
No. I'm a bit amazed (just kidding, this is the internet) that you think we would operate like that. But yes - if 95% of testers tell you that you have a problem, you listen. You don't shut your ears and sing to yourself 'they're carebears, they hate any penalty'.
We added this option because the impact of the 'walk back from medcenter' penalty, in our game, is huge - worse than in comparable MMOs. Here's why:
The distances in a world that is built to scale, on planets like Tatooine, are vast.
A lot of the content is not instanced and is open world and you don't enjoy fighting your way back deep into the objective areas when you die. We're not talking about 1-3 minutes of walking. In some cases, we're talking about 10-15 minutes of repeating content. That's not fun.
As Daniel explained, we're not shy of making challenging content that is interesting to overcome.
But content does not get more challenging by giving it a harsh, repetitive death penalty - penalties just happen after the fact and do not, in any way or form, make the content more challenging, fun or even difficult.
The only challenge a really harsh death penalty adds is to player's patience or tolerance to repeating the same content over and over. Most people don't find that fun, and we don't either.
By adding this system, we are able to create content that kills the player once or twice until they figure out how to overcome it. We can create challenges and players are given a chance to overcome them. They can afford to fail, regroup and try again instead of spending 15 minutes sitting around while some player tries to make his way back to the group.
If you are looking for hardcore and punishing death penalties that weed out the weak players (e.g. the ones that don't have infinite patience and time), The Old Republic will not be your game. That does not mean we're attempting to make an extremely easy game with no challenge.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6674889#post6674889
so people can thank testers for it
My take on death penalty is that it should be designed to encourage and help the player finish the content.
Take chess. When we play with a junior, after he make a mistake, we let him take back a move or 2 and figure out a better move. We do not throw away the board and have him run around the courtyard picking up the chess pieces here and there, do 100 press ups and restart a new game. That defeats the purpose of a game.
And I do not see how a lenient treatment and helpful "death" treatment fails to encourage enjoyment of the gaming session. Flogging a toddler after he falls from his first few steps will not provide additional "gaming thrill".
Games are for fun. Even as an adult, and, for those of us exploring a new content a new game, we are somehow "new" to the game, just like a learner.
Harsh death penalties have no place in themeparks anyways.
Having lighter death penalties (or no death penalties) means they can make bosses a lot harder. Ie, for an inexperienced group, expect to die 10+ times before failing the mission.
Like in Vindictus, where there's 0 death penalty, the newest boss that just got added was so hard for casual players that many people were unable to beat it even after 12+ attempts on the first day (each attempt usually takes 30 minutes to an hour). Usualy these entail 4-5+ deaths per attempt.
However, after 2 weeks most people have the experience of fighting him, and even casual players could probably find a PUG that can beat it after a few failed attempts.
That sound resonable if the world is that massive i would rather have it that way. and the more you die the longer the timer gets so it is a penalty if you die multiple times.
But games have removed to much death penalty in games, i hated corpse running in wow also. Not from instance runs as those was short but there could be a long run in the world. At the same time i do not want to not have any penalty as that make games lame.
Just like 1st person games with that god awfull inbuilt godmode comeon, for real. i dont even need to enter a code to get godmode??? >_<
There is something like to much deathpenalty but there can also be to little off it.
I will need to try Tor befor i can realy comment as it sounds reasonable, Anet actualy have a worse look on this and is boreding on what we see in 1st person games. Stil im gonna play gw2 and realy looking forward to it but i dont agree at all with theyr no death penalty opinion.
cause a corpse run that wastes 10-15 minutes is so much more challenging
Thank you very much Gaou. That should settle the topic.
P.S.
BRAVO! I would love to see how many Death Penalty lovers would do this.
I recall when the emasculation of mmo's began several years ago, as convenience replaced risk, as one story goes.
I faintly recall some thorough research finding there to be a better appreciative balance between a harsh and non-existent death penalty, as we might expect in SW:TOR being non-existent. I'll have to find it. Certianly the lack of those components of death risk hasn't persuaded 60-70% of mmorpg box purchasers, over the last several years, to remain in a themepark mmorpg world within their first 3-6 months on most occasions
But in the meantime, from Wolfshead, Twelve starving men sat down at a table. Before them was placed a sumptuous banquet. Then one of the men protested: “I don’t like salt…”. So in order not to offend him the others agreed to remove the salt from the table. Then another man exclaimed: “I detest pepper…”. So in order not to anger him they all consented to remove the pepper from the table. Each remaining man rose in turn and protested yet another ingredient until there was nothing left on the table. With nothing left to eat the twelve men died of hunger.
I wasn't being sarcastic and I might add it'd serve you well in life not to guess the intentions of others. Asking instead of assuming (which others on this thread clearly have chosen the latter) paints you in brighter colors. The question was a serious, direct one.
Even in Mario brothers you had a finite amount of lives before you had to start over. Unless you cheated and got infinite lives.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
For me, I like it.. the less 'penalties' the better..
RMT!!!!
Maybe mmo's have just passed you by and you should look for a new hobby.
Nobody is dying, the mmo market is getting bigger and more lucrative as time passes.
Its... a video game. What do you want the death penalty to be? When video games came out, death meant you inserted 25 cents to continue. Its a game. Its entertainment. Is there an mmo out there thats handing death penalties the way you prefer?
RMT!!!!
lol arcade games are just old school cash shops. maybe thats what we need in an mmo. when you die, your credit card gets charged 25 cents.
I tend to agree with Khalathwyr, what's the point of having character death at all if the only penalty is having to wait longer after consequetive deaths to respawn? Why not cut out the middle man entirely? Did they leave death in TOR simply to make the world feel more realistic?
When I heard Reid say it was a corrective treatment, I couldn't help but laugh a little. It's completely baffling to me in a comical sort of way, and it almost reminds me of the LEGO games for consoles, in which you have a health bar but no life/restart system. You simply die, and respawn. I'm also a bit puzzled by my own reaction, and I'm curious why I find it so odd to do this. Personally, I think it's just the conditioning from older games speaking here, but I thought dying was supposed to be a bad thing?
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
I think the question needs to be asked that if death really isn't the intention of such systems and not what these games want to really include, than why don't they replace it with a different mechanic one the more suits their intentions with the game.
While not really a directly related to the discussion of death penality, I am reminded of my first play through of Shadow of Colossus, and how it took me a good hour to realize that I was basically just playing a platform game. All the mechanics were there, just appeared different. Once I accepted that, the game made sense on a completely different level.
Sometimes I think developers don't want to admit that the mechanics they have picked are not exactly the mechanics that match the game they want to make.
If I'm not mistaken, when you use the probe it takes longer to recharge for the next use. And then there is the durability penalty.
I don't know about anyone else but I don't have a HUGE problem with this. I mean sure it makes it easier (unless you die a lot) but I don't play games to run around for hours as a ghost trying to rez...
Yeah, it takes 30 minutes before you can Soulwalk again. Unless they have changed it.
I guess it just blows my mind that people find systems like EQs and Asheron's Call's vitae system so debilitating that, "<*sigh* and raise a hand to the forehead like Miss Scarlet> I just don't know what I'll ever do now. I surely can't play the game anymore."
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Now doesn't the way in which the medical probe is set up, basically offer such a device? You have a set amount of chances before you're better off just going back to square one (cloning in a facility).
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
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