I think the OP just had these grand illusions of what they game could be when it was announced, and over the past 3+ years they've been telling us what actually is and it just doesn't so happen to fit with the illusions the OP created when TOR was announced, and as such, feels disappointed.
Which is natural, yet illogical.
Well not only the OP, in 2008 and 2009 the general feeling was that SWTOr was the second coming of Jesus in MMOs. Hell, even now that guy in the video is still saying that SWTOR will change MMOs forever.
I doubt in a big way, but some MMO's often bring something small that becomes integrated in to the universe of MMO's. Good ideas that are taken and improved.
Thing is, I don't see TOR changing much : Maybe the story-mode segments of some MMO's, but I just can't see much changing. After all, TOR looks like many games before it.
Now, I'm not saying it will be better (though I'm thinking so, but keep in mind this is my opinion, so don't get your panties in a twist gents), GW2 is more likely change the MMO scene if it does well. It isn't the highest hyped game we've seen for no reason. Clearly others believe it will be one hell of a game.
Don't get me wrong. I think TOR will be okay, but I just don't see it being amazing anymore.
You know, when I go to a burger joint, say In and Out or McDonalds, I know what to expect. Later, I might find a new place that has burgers. If I go in and the hamburger doesn't resemble a hamburger, I will not be happy about it. If the person who is behind the business thinks doing a wildly different burger is a good thing, then I think he missed the point of hamburger joints.
MMORPGS can't stray too far. You expect to have characters, a world to move about in and have adventure or interaction, online, blah blah blah. Vastly different isn't good.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
This thread was a lot more interesting when it contained animals/people in tin foil hats...maybe we could start a thread about that? It would be more productive than rehashing the same argument, yes?
I agree. The tin foil hats was much more interesting than the blather that started this thread.
That's why my evil plan is to sabotage the thread with tinfoil! mwahahah! Darn..now that I've revealed myself, someone is going to end up stopping me (at least that's what happens in TV shows/movies/etc)
lol! It makes you wonder sometimes how people come up with ideas for these pcitures or why they exist in the first place...either way, it's awesome for us ^_^
This is not really uncommon in games. WAR was also supposed to be rather different from what the devs originally said it would be, not to mention Darkfall.
For the combat mechanics I assume that they tried out a few different versions and they just didn't feel fun. Whiole the holy Trinity EQ style isn't that innovative it works and if your other ideas just isn't fun when you try them out you have little choice.
IMHO the devs had really nice ideas behind their head but it ended as AoC original combo system: too complex for the more casual gamer so back to system that works.
The pets are a rest from KOTOR and I assume that they were planned from the start.
More than probable. What went wrong is playing without a companion, in solo mode, sets you in hard mode so not really an option for most players.
Space combat and crafting were probably compromizes, they wanted them in but didn't had the time to put too much work into them. The good news is that these are actually things that can be revamped later on.
Been knowing since the first annoucement about supposedly heroic crafting that it was PR bull*. I was among the group of people expecting an enhanced Kotor II crafting system.
For space combat the main issue lied, once again, in the wrongly done, PR. They knew space sim fans would find the tunnel shooter lame and most non space sim fan not really enthusiamed either.
The number of features doesn't tell you if a game is good or bad. Tetris is still the most brilliant game ever made and it have close to zero features.
Agreed. Space invaders... even Pong are great games!
That the game is on rails (or more on a tree that branches out actually) should be no surprise, this game is a multiplayer version of KOTOR and anyone assuming Bioware would make this so different from all their other games are jsut naive, if you don't like it you should probably stay clear of Bioware both now and in the future, but many people do like this.
Seems to me, for an MMO, it's a mistake to make a game that much on rails. The issue lies in the fact that choice was supposed to matter. But it should not have been nearly all choices are made once you choose your character class.
And yes, the art is rather weak. I am not really sure why they made it like they did and I am not too impressed by it, but art is a matter of personal preferances. I prefer Da Vinci before Michelangelo, that doesn't mean he was better just that I like him better.
Not very fond of the cartoonish art but what's really killing me is the blatant copy of Wow art. Remove the LS and the blasters and at some point you would think you are playing Wow. This is disappointing for the least.
No MMO turns out to be exactly what the devs originally intended. That can be good or bad. I can tell you that Wow were very different when Strain got the idea and persuaded Blizzard to put a small team working on it as well. Some things doesn't work out, others sounds fun in theory but is boring when you try them out, so e are impossible to implement and in some cases you just don't have the time or money to implement the stuff.
Right. if you dig upthe first leaked documents you'd see quite a few things have changed since 2005 and well some for good and some... not sure
Actually the most accurate and well thought post, kudos to Loke666, see comments in text.
This is not really uncommon in games. WAR was also supposed to be rather different from what the devs originally said it would be, not to mention Darkfall.
For the combat mechanics I assume that they tried out a few different versions and they just didn't feel fun. Whiole the holy Trinity EQ style isn't that innovative it works and if your other ideas just isn't fun when you try them out you have little choice.
IMHO the devs had really nice ideas behind their head but it ended as AoC original combo system: too complex for the more casual gamer so back to system that works.
The pets are a rest from KOTOR and I assume that they were planned from the start.
More than probable. What went wrong is playing without a companion, in solo mode, sets you in hard mode so not really an option for most players.
Space combat and crafting were probably compromizes, they wanted them in but didn't had the time to put too much work into them. The good news is that these are actually things that can be revamped later on.
Been knowing since the first annoucement about supposedly heroic crafting that it was PR bull*. I was among the group of people expecting an enhanced Kotor II crafting system.
For space combat the main issue lied, once again, in the wrongly done, PR. They knew space sim fans would find the tunnel shooter lame and most non space sim fan not really enthusiamed either.
The number of features doesn't tell you if a game is good or bad. Tetris is still the most brilliant game ever made and it have close to zero features.
Agreed. Space invaders... even Pong are great games!
That the game is on rails (or more on a tree that branches out actually) should be no surprise, this game is a multiplayer version of KOTOR and anyone assuming Bioware would make this so different from all their other games are jsut naive, if you don't like it you should probably stay clear of Bioware both now and in the future, but many people do like this.
Seems to me, for an MMO, it's a mistake to make a game that much on rails. The issue lies in the fact that choice was supposed to matter. But it should not have been nearly all choices are made once you choose your character class.
And yes, the art is rather weak. I am not really sure why they made it like they did and I am not too impressed by it, but art is a matter of personal preferances. I prefer Da Vinci before Michelangelo, that doesn't mean he was better just that I like him better.
Not very fond of the cartoonish art but what's really killing me is the blatant copy of Wow art. Remove the LS and the blasters and at some point you would think you are playing Wow. This is disappointing for the least.
No MMO turns out to be exactly what the devs originally intended. That can be good or bad. I can tell you that Wow were very different when Strain got the idea and persuaded Blizzard to put a small team working on it as well. Some things doesn't work out, others sounds fun in theory but is boring when you try them out, so e are impossible to implement and in some cases you just don't have the time or money to implement the stuff.
Right. if you dig upthe first leaked documents you'd see quite a few things have changed since 2005 and well some for good and some... not sure
Actually the most accurate and well thought post, kudos to Loke666, see comments in text.
P.S love the new pics. Dinos with lasers lol!
If you can't see the difference I don't what to tell you.
This is not really uncommon in games. WAR was also supposed to be rather different from what the devs originally said it would be, not to mention Darkfall.
For the combat mechanics I assume that they tried out a few different versions and they just didn't feel fun. Whiole the holy Trinity EQ style isn't that innovative it works and if your other ideas just isn't fun when you try them out you have little choice.
IMHO the devs had really nice ideas behind their head but it ended as AoC original combo system: too complex for the more casual gamer so back to system that works.
The pets are a rest from KOTOR and I assume that they were planned from the start.
More than probable. What went wrong is playing without a companion, in solo mode, sets you in hard mode so not really an option for most players.
Space combat and crafting were probably compromizes, they wanted them in but didn't had the time to put too much work into them. The good news is that these are actually things that can be revamped later on.
Been knowing since the first annoucement about supposedly heroic crafting that it was PR bull*. I was among the group of people expecting an enhanced Kotor II crafting system.
For space combat the main issue lied, once again, in the wrongly done, PR. They knew space sim fans would find the tunnel shooter lame and most non space sim fan not really enthusiamed either.
The number of features doesn't tell you if a game is good or bad. Tetris is still the most brilliant game ever made and it have close to zero features.
Agreed. Space invaders... even Pong are great games!
That the game is on rails (or more on a tree that branches out actually) should be no surprise, this game is a multiplayer version of KOTOR and anyone assuming Bioware would make this so different from all their other games are jsut naive, if you don't like it you should probably stay clear of Bioware both now and in the future, but many people do like this.
Seems to me, for an MMO, it's a mistake to make a game that much on rails. The issue lies in the fact that choice was supposed to matter. But it should not have been nearly all choices are made once you choose your character class.
And yes, the art is rather weak. I am not really sure why they made it like they did and I am not too impressed by it, but art is a matter of personal preferances. I prefer Da Vinci before Michelangelo, that doesn't mean he was better just that I like him better.
Not very fond of the cartoonish art but what's really killing me is the blatant copy of Wow art. Remove the LS and the blasters and at some point you would think you are playing Wow. This is disappointing for the least.
No MMO turns out to be exactly what the devs originally intended. That can be good or bad. I can tell you that Wow were very different when Strain got the idea and persuaded Blizzard to put a small team working on it as well. Some things doesn't work out, others sounds fun in theory but is boring when you try them out, so e are impossible to implement and in some cases you just don't have the time or money to implement the stuff.
Right. if you dig upthe first leaked documents you'd see quite a few things have changed since 2005 and well some for good and some... not sure
Actually the most accurate and well thought post, kudos to Loke666, see comments in text.
P.S love the new pics. Dinos with lasers lol!
If you can't see the difference I don't what to tell you.
Why did that paladin get beastslaying on his weapon in the bottom picture?
Currently playing - FF14ARR Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.
Nothing did go wrong in my eyes sure they going for the convetional route and not realy invent alot of new things but their is another mmo that we all know where it worked for them .
For me the story , voice over companions and a non fantasy setting are enough . I rather have a polished game than one that feels not done , think alot of ppl dont know how much work it is to make a fully fleshed out polished mmo like wow did for example .
Games like the pre nge swg where great for their ideas but in the end the game was buggy and not done at all think some ppl are forgetting that , yeh they did have huge planets etc but in the end they where just empty huge places or some copy paste stuff. Sure maybe in the future their will be a game like that to with full polish but its a very risky move since its involves loads of money.
I like how the fanboys quote 3 million pre orders sold.. So the game must not be fail.
Let's do the math.
3,000,000 pre-orders (assuming this is true)
10% will cancel before actual launch, for whatever reasons such as want beta access to resell the beta account. Not care, play beta and hate it or realize BF3 was the right game for them.
2,700,000 pre-orders.
10% wil cancel because of system compatibility, unplayable problems
2,430,000 pre-orders
10% of the bulk credit cards will fail upon charge date
2,187,000 pre-orders.
15% of the pre-orders were for gaming review and media companies needing to cash in on the hype thus need copies
1,755,675 pre-orders
5% of the pre-orders are those looking to resell sold out hard copies of the collectors edition game, in hopes to cash in on a hype market
1667891 pre-orders
Already lost about a million.... ship is sinking? j/k
This is Star Wars, not War of Stars..... Star wars has what 30+ years of story telling and exploiting brainwashers pounding their way at kids and fans worldwide... 3 million is a small number compared to that. It has nothing to do with Bioware....
I like how the fanboys quote 3 million pre orders sold.. So the game must not be fail.
Let's do the math.
3,000,000 pre-orders (assuming this is true)
10% will cancel before actual launch, for whatever reasons such as want beta access to resell the beta account. Not care, play beta and hate it or realize BF3 was the right game for them.
2,700,000 pre-orders.
10% wil cancel because of system compatibility, unplayable problems
2,430,000 pre-orders
10% of the bulk credit cards will fail upon charge date
2,187,000 pre-orders.
15% of the pre-orders were for gaming review and media companies needing to cash in on the hype thus need copies
1,755,675 pre-orders
5% of the pre-orders are those looking to resell sold out hard copies of the collectors edition game, in hopes to cash in on a hype market
1667891 pre-orders
Already lost about a million.... ship is sinking? j/k
This is Star Wars, not War of Stars..... Star wars has what 30+ years of story telling and exploiting brainwashers pounding their way at kids and fans worldwide... 3 million is a small number compared to that. It has nothing to do with Bioware....
I believe those who are saying there are 3 million pre-orders are mistaken. The deal is that based on pre-orders and how other games sold based on pre-orders they are estimating about 3 million games purchased upon release. I can't recall who exactly calculated this but it was one of those accountant type organizations, I'm sure you know the type.
1. They did stay away from the trinity. Each class is capable of multiple roles. Everyone can DPS, and everyone can either tank, heal, or control.
2.Combat is epic because everyone is involved. There's a lot of times where every single player will be fighting a different enemy, there's much less gathering them up AoEing to death.
3. Huttball, one word. your point?
4. If you mean everyone has companions, that's true. But there are a lot of other things companions can do if they aren't with you, so while everyone will have the option of a 'pet' as you put it, I believe very few will have them.
5. Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindbogglingly big it is...
6. It's heroic because it doesn't get 'power levelled' in a weekend. Things are crafted in, dare I say, real time? Thank the valar our companions can do it, even while we're offline.
7. And yet, in reality...
8. Pazaak, really? Most Expensive Video Game ever made and you are complaining you can't play a glorified version of War? Would you like a "pong" simulator as well?
9. I suppose you've read / played through the "storyline" then? It's BioWare. Best writers on the planet.
10. Or, you know, classes. You do know there are 8 completely different story lines, yeah? That each take about 200 hours?
11. So, since WoW had robes, Jedi need to wear what, kilts?
12. It's stylized realism... you know... characitures.
13. There's a ton of rewards for exploration and finding Holocrons. Also the most rewarding quests are found off the beaten path. If you only do what you're told to do, you're missing a LOT of content.
On paper SWTOR has less features than games years older.
So... what went wrong?
Your sense of the time/space continuum.
Games that are years older have had years to add content/features/mechanics etc. Comparing a game's content at release to one years in development live is unfair at best, ridiculous at worst. Now, compare TOR with EQ at release, EQ2 at release, WoW at release and I think it should be obvious to anyone that the bar has been raised as far as what is available in TOR at release.
Besides that - for the most part, I'm pretty sure they still have all the stuff they talked about in 2008 - so, really, what gets you is that you don't like how those ideas have been implemented. And of course, as i'm sure I'm not the first to say this in the thread, but what is most amazing is that you are dead certain that you won't like the features, even though you haven't played it yet.
Or take heart that you found enough imformation prior to making a purchase that you can make an informed decision. But ya know what? I bet you still buy it and play it.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
10. Or, you know, classes. You do know there are 8 completely different story lines, yeah? That each take about 200 hours?
Just going to pick that one: If you really think there's 200h for each class you might be really disappointed. If I remember well from the official statements class story is only about 10-15% of the supposedly (no official confirmation) 200ish hours of story per faction.
10. Or, you know, classes. You do know there are 8 completely different story lines, yeah? That each take about 200 hours?
Just going to pick that one: If you really think there's 200h for each class you might be really disappointed. If I remember well from the official statements class story is only about 10-15% of the supposedly (no official confirmation) 200ish hours of story per faction.
I believe that is wrong. Pretty sure I saw them say your class story is around 50-75% of the content on starter worlds dropping to 10-15% on other planets. Chapter 1 is about 3x average KOTOR length. Chapter 2 and 3 maybe smaller but with that said it won't be far from 200hrs for the class story.
1. They did stay away from the trinity. Each class is capable of multiple roles. Everyone can DPS, and everyone can either tank, heal, or control.
They may be capable of multiple roles but you can only choose one of those roles, or go with a hybrid. I still think they have something of a soft trinity, but just exactly how soft is the question. Part of the reason for companions originally was to fill those roles and they did want to avoid going with a trinity system, however it's clear that through testing it wasn't really working out the way they hoped. I much prefer they pay attention to the info that comes out of testing instead of sticking to an idea that doesn't work.
10. Or, you know, classes. You do know there are 8 completely different story lines, yeah? That each take about 200 hours?
Just going to pick that one: If you really think there's 200h for each class you might be really disappointed. If I remember well from the official statements class story is only about 10-15% of the supposedly (no official confirmation) 200ish hours of story per faction.
I believe that is wrong. Pretty sure I saw them say your class story is around 50-75% of the content on starter worlds dropping to 10-15% on other planets. Chapter 1 is about 3x average KOTOR length. Chapter 2 and 3 maybe smaller but with that said it won't be far from 200hrs for the class story.
Yep, he's wrong, but keep in mind that 200 hours is an average, there are those who may have done it at a much shorter time while others took much longer. But yeah, it's 200 hours average per class.
That's what's happened, not to mention Bioware is going down like the titanic.
This is my best guess.
Bioware used to make instant classics. I didnt think much about the EA buyout thing when it happened. I read about how EA was going to give incredible freedom to Bioware and let them do their thing so I shrugged and said good deal. Why mess with something that aint broken?
It was only much later I started to notice that I was no longer impressed by Bioware games. The last Bioware game I was absolutely in love with was Mass Effect (and pretty much every other Bioware game before that). After that I havent really enjoyed a single one of their games. That includes Mass Effect 2.
And then it hit me. Hey.....Bioware used to lay golden eggs. Whats going on here? Oh yea, they got bought out by EA didnt they! And that was exactly around the time I noticed their games started to lack that special something. Now I wouldnt go so far as to say they are sinking like the Titanic. They make passable games these days. They're not awful. I just wouldnt go as far to say they're good. Mediocre is what Id call it.
As for Swtor, I really dont know what the game was supposed to be originally compared to now. But it seems to lack the incredible vision of past games. Its mind boggling for me to see my once favorite developer begin to tarnish. This is Bioware for crying out loud. But I dont think its the Bioware it once was. And thats a damn shame.
If you were any more wrong your name would be G.W. Bush.
First of all Mass Effect and DA2 were both great games. You are definitely in the minority with your observations there.
Secondly nobody here knows exactly what the finished product is going to be because MMOs aren't finished even when they're released. This is our fault because we allowed the industry to do this. So any conclusions jumped to here are based on nothing but speculation and ignorance.
Comments
You know, when I go to a burger joint, say In and Out or McDonalds, I know what to expect. Later, I might find a new place that has burgers. If I go in and the hamburger doesn't resemble a hamburger, I will not be happy about it. If the person who is behind the business thinks doing a wildly different burger is a good thing, then I think he missed the point of hamburger joints.
MMORPGS can't stray too far. You expect to have characters, a world to move about in and have adventure or interaction, online, blah blah blah. Vastly different isn't good.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
That's why my evil plan is to sabotage the thread with tinfoil! mwahahah! Darn..now that I've revealed myself, someone is going to end up stopping me
(at least that's what happens in TV shows/movies/etc)
Do you want some cheese with that whine?
Lol! That's AWESOME!
Do you want some cheese with that whine?
I have no words for how amazing this picture is
Do you want some cheese with that whine?
lol! It makes you wonder sometimes how people come up with ideas for these pcitures or why they exist in the first place...either way, it's awesome for us ^_^
Do you want some cheese with that whine?
Actually the most accurate and well thought post, kudos to Loke666, see comments in text.
P.S love the new pics. Dinos with lasers lol!
If you can't see the difference I don't what to tell you.
Why did that paladin get beastslaying on his weapon in the bottom picture?
Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.
Nothing did go wrong in my eyes sure they going for the convetional route and not realy invent alot of new things but their is another mmo that we all know where it worked for them .
For me the story , voice over companions and a non fantasy setting are enough . I rather have a polished game than one that feels not done , think alot of ppl dont know how much work it is to make a fully fleshed out polished mmo like wow did for example .
Games like the pre nge swg where great for their ideas but in the end the game was buggy and not done at all think some ppl are forgetting that , yeh they did have huge planets etc but in the end they where just empty huge places or some copy paste stuff. Sure maybe in the future their will be a game like that to with full polish but its a very risky move since its involves loads of money.
I like how the fanboys quote 3 million pre orders sold.. So the game must not be fail.
Let's do the math.
3,000,000 pre-orders (assuming this is true)
10% will cancel before actual launch, for whatever reasons such as want beta access to resell the beta account. Not care, play beta and hate it or realize BF3 was the right game for them.
2,700,000 pre-orders.
10% wil cancel because of system compatibility, unplayable problems
2,430,000 pre-orders
10% of the bulk credit cards will fail upon charge date
2,187,000 pre-orders.
15% of the pre-orders were for gaming review and media companies needing to cash in on the hype thus need copies
1,755,675 pre-orders
5% of the pre-orders are those looking to resell sold out hard copies of the collectors edition game, in hopes to cash in on a hype market
1667891 pre-orders
Already lost about a million.... ship is sinking? j/k
This is Star Wars, not War of Stars..... Star wars has what 30+ years of story telling and exploiting brainwashers pounding their way at kids and fans worldwide... 3 million is a small number compared to that. It has nothing to do with Bioware....
Regards,
Nobotters - A better gaming experience
Don't focus on the red glowing thing... yes keep going you can do it!
Use the force, open your mind!
See... the shape of a w a r l o k is slowing surfacing.
Nice try, though
I believe those who are saying there are 3 million pre-orders are mistaken. The deal is that based on pre-orders and how other games sold based on pre-orders they are estimating about 3 million games purchased upon release. I can't recall who exactly calculated this but it was one of those accountant type organizations, I'm sure you know the type.
1. They did stay away from the trinity. Each class is capable of multiple roles. Everyone can DPS, and everyone can either tank, heal, or control.
2.Combat is epic because everyone is involved. There's a lot of times where every single player will be fighting a different enemy, there's much less gathering them up AoEing to death.
3. Huttball, one word. your point?
4. If you mean everyone has companions, that's true. But there are a lot of other things companions can do if they aren't with you, so while everyone will have the option of a 'pet' as you put it, I believe very few will have them.
5. Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindbogglingly big it is...
6. It's heroic because it doesn't get 'power levelled' in a weekend. Things are crafted in, dare I say, real time? Thank the valar our companions can do it, even while we're offline.
7. And yet, in reality...
8. Pazaak, really? Most Expensive Video Game ever made and you are complaining you can't play a glorified version of War? Would you like a "pong" simulator as well?
9. I suppose you've read / played through the "storyline" then? It's BioWare. Best writers on the planet.
10. Or, you know, classes. You do know there are 8 completely different story lines, yeah? That each take about 200 hours?
11. So, since WoW had robes, Jedi need to wear what, kilts?
12. It's stylized realism... you know... characitures.
13. There's a ton of rewards for exploration and finding Holocrons. Also the most rewarding quests are found off the beaten path. If you only do what you're told to do, you're missing a LOT of content.
Your sense of the time/space continuum.
Games that are years older have had years to add content/features/mechanics etc. Comparing a game's content at release to one years in development live is unfair at best, ridiculous at worst. Now, compare TOR with EQ at release, EQ2 at release, WoW at release and I think it should be obvious to anyone that the bar has been raised as far as what is available in TOR at release.
Besides that - for the most part, I'm pretty sure they still have all the stuff they talked about in 2008 - so, really, what gets you is that you don't like how those ideas have been implemented. And of course, as i'm sure I'm not the first to say this in the thread, but what is most amazing is that you are dead certain that you won't like the features, even though you haven't played it yet.
Or take heart that you found enough imformation prior to making a purchase that you can make an informed decision. But ya know what? I bet you still buy it and play it.
Interesting, how the mind works from one person to another
So, tell me, what shape do you see slowly surfacing when you 'open your mind' and 'use the force' from these pics:
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Just going to pick that one: If you really think there's 200h for each class you might be really disappointed. If I remember well from the official statements class story is only about 10-15% of the supposedly (no official confirmation) 200ish hours of story per faction.
O.M.G - WoW Clone!!!!
I believe that is wrong. Pretty sure I saw them say your class story is around 50-75% of the content on starter worlds dropping to 10-15% on other planets. Chapter 1 is about 3x average KOTOR length. Chapter 2 and 3 maybe smaller but with that said it won't be far from 200hrs for the class story.
They may be capable of multiple roles but you can only choose one of those roles, or go with a hybrid. I still think they have something of a soft trinity, but just exactly how soft is the question. Part of the reason for companions originally was to fill those roles and they did want to avoid going with a trinity system, however it's clear that through testing it wasn't really working out the way they hoped. I much prefer they pay attention to the info that comes out of testing instead of sticking to an idea that doesn't work.
Yep, he's wrong, but keep in mind that 200 hours is an average, there are those who may have done it at a much shorter time while others took much longer. But yeah, it's 200 hours average per class.
I knew you could do better!
Here a teaser
How do you like my blood elve?
Come on, you can troll better than that.
See you at launch.
If you were any more wrong your name would be G.W. Bush.
First of all Mass Effect and DA2 were both great games. You are definitely in the minority with your observations there.
Secondly nobody here knows exactly what the finished product is going to be because MMOs aren't finished even when they're released. This is our fault because we allowed the industry to do this. So any conclusions jumped to here are based on nothing but speculation and ignorance.