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Arrested for Selling Lemonade - That's Absurd
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" The cost of doing business" IS a huge part of the crisis in this nation. People cannot afford to do for themselves and until we fix that they will be dependant on others to support them in order to survive.
They were protesting in the city, and state where the law was made. They were protesting on public property, and aiming it at all levels of government that are promoting oppressive laws. I am not " mad" or " hate" , I just worry for all of those in this nation who are struggling to survive and oppose laws that prevent them from doing so. It is not a matter of hatred, but rather a matter of humanity. They were just powerless kids, no matter what they do, even this isn;t going to change the law, the best they can hope for is to gain support by making their cause known. Yes, there are other ways to go about it, but them being so few, this appears to have served their purpose. They were sacrificing themselves in the hopes of one day people changing this. Though I see this as a futile effort, I applaud them for their convictions.
You are promoting supression through force for victimless crimes. I cannot support that. Who exactly was being harmed by their actions? Is someone traumatized by their lemonade selling? LOL
The City is the PEOPLE who live in that city. They pay for these things themselves through taxes. The people ARE liable, that includes everyone in the city. The " city" is not some seperate entity that rules over the people. It is the PEOPLE who live there, all of them.
This is where I have a problem with the way government is viewed. The government is the people, not a ruling entity above them. I see the people and the government as equal, the same. The people are who decides what is best for that city, but that should not include imposing unjust laws and beliefs onto others, that is when it becomes unjust. That is why the indivudual rights must be protected from the mob if there is no victim. I believe that includes the poor and the few as well.
And yes, If you sue the city you live in, and have paid your taxes, and continue to pay your taxes, you are in fact suing yourself and your neighbors because that is the source of revenue for your city. You and your neighbors pay for every lawsuit.
Whats funny is those morons that got arrested probably think the people watching it give a damn or something, they don't. it's just something to watch and make fun of later on haha.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
LOL! Yes it was a half assed lame attempt at a protest, and they just messed up their criminal records for a stunt they really did not pull of very well and that will not result in anything other than humiliation.
There is nothing we can do to change the oppressive laws in this nation. It has gone on too long and too far to have any hope of " liberty and justice for all". Was a nice dream.
Green: No it's not. That's a sensationalist argument. The facts speak louder than your words. The police gave them multiple chances to leave without being criminals. They decided to thumb their nose at the police. Thus, leaving the police having to enforce the law. Therefore, they became criminals. They had the power... but they decided to become criminals. They also have the power to go through the proper channels of getting the law changed. But, they decided to become criminals.
Blue: No, I am not. Again, sensationalism and now attacks against me as I was not supporting any form of suppression.
Facts remain: They violated the law because they hated the law they were violating. And, instead of actually going through the proper channels to change that law, they ignored the law and became criminals. And, you are supporting them
No. The city is not the "PEOPLE". The city is, in fact, a separate entity that the people have a voice in how it does things. That is the distinction that you don't get.
If the city was truly the people only, then there would be mass anarchy as anyone could do anything to change the city at a whim because that person owned the city. But, they don't. That is why it is an entity all on it's own that the people have a word in how it does things.
Funniest part is, the laws that you have a problem with were voted in by the people. The people spoke and the city listened. So, truthfully, it is just some people who hated the law and didn't think their voices were heard that decided to become criminals instead of actually try and go through the proper channels to get the law changed. So, they are fighting against the people.
Green: Sensationalism. These cities' "oppressive" laws were voted in by the people. The people told their cities what to do and the cities did it. So, you are mad at the people.
Don't give me that sensationalism crap, I actually feel sad about this. After working with Homeless and dealing with people that feel they have no options everyday, it really hits home that if we do not change these types of laws that keep people from helping themselves, we are condeming them. The kids should have been arrested. That is what they went down there to do. That was the whole point. Proper channels are nonsense and you know it as well as I do. They have Zer0 chance of getting anything accomplished through channles or by being arrested either way. They only brought attention to it, nothing more, and not enough that will ever amount to anything. Like I said, I agreed with the officer, their fight wasn;t with them, it was with the lawmakers. They decided to become criminals to make a statement. It isn;t the first time we have allowed people to be locked up for victimless crimes in this nation and is far from the last.
I have just opened my eyes to what has happened to our nation and realize the efforts are futile. This is how it is going to be and the best we can do is teach people how to survive in it and help them when we are able to do so.
I am supporting their convictions to stand up for what they believe in, and agree that victimless crimes have no place in a free nation. I agree with breaking laws that should have never been laws in the first place. For example, in Dallas here owning realistic dildos are against the law. I fully support breaking that law as well and they can arrest all the self pleasuring women they wish, and we will continue to buy them and become lawbreakers until they remove such ridiculous laws. Some laws need to be broken to prove a point, and I see the lemonade law as one of them.
If they passed a law stating I could not wear my bikini on the beach I would still do so. If they made a law stating I could not give out halloween candy on halloween I would still do so. If they made a law stating I could not dance in public I still would, and would be considered a lwbreaker as well. Sometimes it is better to be a lawbreaker than a coward.
Unjust laws are still unjust regardless of if they were implemented via Mob rule. Failing to protect everyones right to justice and liberty is no better than anarchy.
If a law is blatantly infringing upon basic Liberty, it should be broken, and broken by the masses until they correct it.
"The People" is mob rule. The majority of what the people want is what the people get. THAT is how city and state governments work!
You can't argue for "the people" owning a city and not believe in mob rule.
Green: That is false. No liberties are being broken.
Hate to break it to you, but " Law abiding upstanding citizens" break ridiculous laws every day. There are plenty of ridiculous laws on the books in every state. How many people would you estimate that take more than 3 sips of beer while standing? Would that suddenly make you a criminal just because technically it is against the law? LOL
These kids are no criminals and it is a terrible misuse of our resources and justice system to treat them as such.
Liberties are being taken. The government exists to protect the indivuduals rights from the mob. The poor are having their rights taken from them to appease the mob. When you make a law that prevents those with less resources from doing for themselves their liberties are being infringed upon.
Ok I seem to notice that people in this thread seem to be seperating 'The City' and 'The People' into two seperate groups which is both right and wrong. The USA is what is called a 'Representative Democracy'. This means that we vote for people to represent us in government. These people in turn represent us by determining the laws that we all abide by. Sometimes Laws are considered controversial enough that they are put to a direct vote of the people. Either way the people have a direct or indirect influence on every law passed. They affect laws directly by voting on them and indirectly by voting into office those that vote on them. If you have an issue the best way to get heard is to talk to your representative directly and if that doesn't work try to get someone else into his/her office that will 'do the right thing' at the next election. This needs to have the majority of 'The People' backing it though to succeed. Also most municipalities have 'Town Hall' meetings so people can gather and complaints can be heard directly by the entire elected City Council all at once.
The upshot of all of this is there are many ways to change what you feel isn't right without breaking any laws. People like these lemonade sellers most probably don't even vote much less know how government works or they wouldn't have tried this bonehead stunt in the first place. They have to realize that this Law was put into place either directly or indirectly by the people of Washington D.C. themselves. That is after all how our government works.
Bren
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Yes, they are criminals. They blatantly broke the law and thumbed their noses at the police when the police gave them a chance to leave without facing prosecution. They wanted to be criminals... they became criminals... and now they'll be the ones that, hopefully, be slapped with heavy fines for their criminal actions.
Also, I never said that there was not any nonsensical state laws. There's quite a few. However, if the people find them nonsensical, then they need to go through the proper channels to get rid of those laws.
That is false. Either you are for "The People", which is mob rule. Or, you are for the government as an entity that protects the citizens from mob rule.
Blue: Are you actually arguing that capitalism violates the poor's liberties?
As I stated, the City is its own entity that can be told what to do by the people. When I say "City" I am also including the Representatives (City Council) as they are a part of the City when they are voted in by the people. This distinction protects the people from true mob rule and Anarchy by allowing a separate entity to govern while still allowing the people to have a voice as to what gets done by the governing entity.
As to the rest, I agree.
That's the whole point of a Representative Democracy. The people indirectly still govern but it's by proxy(the elected Representative). If the people don't like what their Representative is doing for them they have several options. They can voice their concerns to them directly, they can voice their concerns to a 'Town Hall Meeting' or they can simply replace them with someone they think will do a better job representing their interests. All of which is perfectly legal and is the right way to bring about change. Going out and getting arrested because you don't agree with a law is just plain stupid and does absolutely nothing to change it.
Bren
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Exactly. That is the proper channels that I was talking about. The same proper channels that devilicious claimed were "nonsense"
And if the police had ignored these guys selling lemonade to the public, and then reports of people being poisoned or even worse because the police hadnt done there job. Your reaction would be?
just saying
LMAO! They are nonsense. Have you ever tried to use them? Have you taken on an active role in your community? Have you ever been elected to do anything? You learn these things the hard way. Corruption is at all levels of our government. City, state, Federal- It doesn't matter. The only things you can change are for publicity stunts and the things that don't matter. Try to make a real difference and you will will get nowhere because that is the reality of how it works. Our judges are bought off, our regulators bought off, Hell even the EPA is bought off. It is a joke. I really do think that our elected officials should be forced to wear their sponsors on their uniforms like Indy car drivers so you get the real picture of who they work for.
Been there. Done that. Burned that shirt.
At that point there would be victims, and they would be criminals. Hate to break it to you- but healthcode inspections, permits, and licensese do nothing to protect you if someone wishes to cause you harm. How you like those you tube videos of dudes putting their balls on your sandwiches before they deliver them? How bout look up the FDA lists of things they have found in your hot dogs? Bandaids, human fingers anyone? Do you really know what that guy who made your salad dressing put in it?
Employees at a local pizza place here claimed they witnessed their boss, yes the owner of the place, whacking off on the pizzas because he didn't like the customers. But yea they had all of the required inspections, permits, and licences, so you should feel safe now. LOL