Arrested for Selling Lemonade - That's Absurd

Vato26

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by Brenelael

Ok I seem to notice that people in this thread seem to be seperating 'The City' and 'The People' into two seperate groups which is both right and wrong. The USA is what is called a 'Representative Democracy'. This means that we vote for people to represent us in government. These people in turn represent us by determining the laws that we all abide by. Sometimes Laws are considered controversial enough that they are put to a direct vote of the people. Either way the people have a direct or indirect influence on every law passed. They affect laws directly by voting on them and indirectly by voting into office those that vote on them. If you have an issue the best way to get heard is to talk to your representative directly and if that doesn't work try to get someone else into his/her office that will 'do the right thing' at the next election. This needs to have the majority of 'The People' backing it though to succeed. Also most municipalities have 'Town Hall' meetings so people can gather and complaints can be heard directly by the entire elected City Council all at once.

 

The upshot of all of this is there are many ways to change what you feel isn't right without breaking any laws. People like these lemonade sellers most probably don't even vote much less know how government works or they wouldn't have tried this bonehead stunt in the first place. They have to realize that this Law was put into place either directly or indirectly by the people of Washington D.C. themselves. That is after all how our government works.

 

Bren

As I stated, the City is its own entity that can be told what to do by the people.  When I say "City" I am also including the Representatives (City Council) as they are a part of the City when they are voted in by the people.  This distinction protects the people from true mob rule and Anarchy by allowing a separate entity to govern while still allowing the people to have a voice as to what gets done by the governing entity.

As to the rest, I agree.

That's the whole point of a Representative Democracy. The people indirectly still govern but it's by proxy(the elected Representative). If the people don't like what their Representative is doing for them they have several options. They can voice their concerns to them directly, they can voice their concerns to a 'Town Hall Meeting' or they can simply replace them with someone they think will do a better job representing their interests. All of which is perfectly legal and is the right way to bring about change. Going out and getting arrested because you don't agree with a law is just plain stupid and does absolutely nothing to change it.

 

Bren

Exactly.  That is the proper channels that I was talking about.  The same proper channels that devilicious claimed were "nonsense"

 LMAO! They are nonsense. Have you ever tried to use them? Have you taken on an active role in your community? Have you ever been elected to do anything? You learn these things the hard way. Corruption is at all levels of our government. City, state, Federal- It doesn't matter.  The only things you can change are for publicity stunts and the things that don't matter. Try to make a real difference and you will will get nowhere because that is the reality of how it works. Our judges are bought off, our regulators bought off, Hell even the EPA is bought off.  It is a joke.  I really do think that our elected officials should be forced to wear their sponsors on their uniforms like Indy car drivers so you get the real picture of who they work for.

Been there. Done that. Burned that shirt.

... Your cynicism speaks volumes of your intentions.

Fact remains, the proper channels are there for a reason.

Amana

Guys, we closed down R&P. Let's not deviate too far from discussion of the story itself into policy/morality/ from here on in. Thanks.

deviliscious

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by Brenelael

Ok I seem to notice that people in this thread seem to be seperating 'The City' and 'The People' into two seperate groups which is both right and wrong. The USA is what is called a 'Representative Democracy'. This means that we vote for people to represent us in government. These people in turn represent us by determining the laws that we all abide by. Sometimes Laws are considered controversial enough that they are put to a direct vote of the people. Either way the people have a direct or indirect influence on every law passed. They affect laws directly by voting on them and indirectly by voting into office those that vote on them. If you have an issue the best way to get heard is to talk to your representative directly and if that doesn't work try to get someone else into his/her office that will 'do the right thing' at the next election. This needs to have the majority of 'The People' backing it though to succeed. Also most municipalities have 'Town Hall' meetings so people can gather and complaints can be heard directly by the entire elected City Council all at once.

 

The upshot of all of this is there are many ways to change what you feel isn't right without breaking any laws. People like these lemonade sellers most probably don't even vote much less know how government works or they wouldn't have tried this bonehead stunt in the first place. They have to realize that this Law was put into place either directly or indirectly by the people of Washington D.C. themselves. That is after all how our government works.

 

Bren

As I stated, the City is its own entity that can be told what to do by the people.  When I say "City" I am also including the Representatives (City Council) as they are a part of the City when they are voted in by the people.  This distinction protects the people from true mob rule and Anarchy by allowing a separate entity to govern while still allowing the people to have a voice as to what gets done by the governing entity.

As to the rest, I agree.

That's the whole point of a Representative Democracy. The people indirectly still govern but it's by proxy(the elected Representative). If the people don't like what their Representative is doing for them they have several options. They can voice their concerns to them directly, they can voice their concerns to a 'Town Hall Meeting' or they can simply replace them with someone they think will do a better job representing their interests. All of which is perfectly legal and is the right way to bring about change. Going out and getting arrested because you don't agree with a law is just plain stupid and does absolutely nothing to change it.

 

Bren

Exactly.  That is the proper channels that I was talking about.  The same proper channels that devilicious claimed were "nonsense"

 LMAO! They are nonsense. Have you ever tried to use them? Have you taken on an active role in your community? Have you ever been elected to do anything? You learn these things the hard way. Corruption is at all levels of our government. City, state, Federal- It doesn't matter.  The only things you can change are for publicity stunts and the things that don't matter. Try to make a real difference and you will will get nowhere because that is the reality of how it works. Our judges are bought off, our regulators bought off, Hell even the EPA is bought off.  It is a joke.  I really do think that our elected officials should be forced to wear their sponsors on their uniforms like Indy car drivers so you get the real picture of who they work for.

Been there. Done that. Burned that shirt.

... Your cynicism speaks volumes of your intentions.

Fact remains, the proper channels are there for a reason.

 LOL! I have volumes to base my cynicism on. Yes, the proper channels are there for a reason. The reason they are there is to give the illusion that you have a chance in hell of making a difference, but that is it. The truth in politics is that it isn't about what the people want, not at all, it is about " getting yours" for those you put you there and giving yourself more authority over others.

 That was a  hard lesson learned for this once starry eyed hopeful girl that thought I could actually help people when they elected me. All I learned from that was that no matter how you try there are some things you are just powerless to change, and if you try too hard, and actually gain a chance in making a difference, you won't last long.  Sure, I could get some city beautification projects done, but dare try and help the unfortunate and you will get boxed in.

I would love for you to tell me about my volumes of intentions, since you seem to better understand them than I do. Tell you what,  you go out and try to change something that matters. I dare you. Then come back here and tell me about how my " cynicism speaks volumes" I would love to hear your first hand account on how you were able to make a difference, and how well the system worked for you. Of course pick an item that is very popular with the general population, something that is pretty obvious that most people feel is wrong, something important like I did, and see how far you get. Don't you dare back down either when they tell you," If you don't play the game you won't get anywhere" either. Even when you stay the course you just get burned. Give it a realistic, honest effort and then tell me about the " proper channels". LMAO 

 Kids do drastic things like " getting arrested for selling lemonade" because they feel they have no other way.

Vato26

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by Brenelael

Ok I seem to notice that people in this thread seem to be seperating 'The City' and 'The People' into two seperate groups which is both right and wrong. The USA is what is called a 'Representative Democracy'. This means that we vote for people to represent us in government. These people in turn represent us by determining the laws that we all abide by. Sometimes Laws are considered controversial enough that they are put to a direct vote of the people. Either way the people have a direct or indirect influence on every law passed. They affect laws directly by voting on them and indirectly by voting into office those that vote on them. If you have an issue the best way to get heard is to talk to your representative directly and if that doesn't work try to get someone else into his/her office that will 'do the right thing' at the next election. This needs to have the majority of 'The People' backing it though to succeed. Also most municipalities have 'Town Hall' meetings so people can gather and complaints can be heard directly by the entire elected City Council all at once.

 

The upshot of all of this is there are many ways to change what you feel isn't right without breaking any laws. People like these lemonade sellers most probably don't even vote much less know how government works or they wouldn't have tried this bonehead stunt in the first place. They have to realize that this Law was put into place either directly or indirectly by the people of Washington D.C. themselves. That is after all how our government works.

 

Bren

As I stated, the City is its own entity that can be told what to do by the people.  When I say "City" I am also including the Representatives (City Council) as they are a part of the City when they are voted in by the people.  This distinction protects the people from true mob rule and Anarchy by allowing a separate entity to govern while still allowing the people to have a voice as to what gets done by the governing entity.

As to the rest, I agree.

That's the whole point of a Representative Democracy. The people indirectly still govern but it's by proxy(the elected Representative). If the people don't like what their Representative is doing for them they have several options. They can voice their concerns to them directly, they can voice their concerns to a 'Town Hall Meeting' or they can simply replace them with someone they think will do a better job representing their interests. All of which is perfectly legal and is the right way to bring about change. Going out and getting arrested because you don't agree with a law is just plain stupid and does absolutely nothing to change it.

 

Bren

Exactly.  That is the proper channels that I was talking about.  The same proper channels that devilicious claimed were "nonsense"

 LMAO! They are nonsense. Have you ever tried to use them? Have you taken on an active role in your community? Have you ever been elected to do anything? You learn these things the hard way. Corruption is at all levels of our government. City, state, Federal- It doesn't matter.  The only things you can change are for publicity stunts and the things that don't matter. Try to make a real difference and you will will get nowhere because that is the reality of how it works. Our judges are bought off, our regulators bought off, Hell even the EPA is bought off.  It is a joke.  I really do think that our elected officials should be forced to wear their sponsors on their uniforms like Indy car drivers so you get the real picture of who they work for.

Been there. Done that. Burned that shirt.

... Your cynicism speaks volumes of your intentions.

Fact remains, the proper channels are there for a reason.

 LOL! I have volumes to base my cynicism on. Yes, the proper channels are there for a reason. The reason they are there is to give the illusion that you have a chance in hell of making a difference, but that is it. The truth in politics is that it isn't about what the people want, not at all, it is about " getting yours" for those you put you there and giving yourself more authority over others.

No, it's not.  You can believe what you want to believe all you want.  However, it doesn't make it reality.

 That was a  hard lesson learned for this once starry eyed hopeful girl that thought I could actually help people when they elected me. All I learned from that was that no matter how you try there are some things you are just powerless to change, and if you try too hard, and actually gain a chance in making a difference, you won't last long.  Sure, I could get some city beautification projects done, but dare try and help the unfortunate and you will get boxed in.

No.  You are only powerless if you believe you are powerless.  Self-fulfilling prophecy.

I would love for you to tell me about my volumes of intentions, since you seem to better understand them than I do. Tell you what,  you go out and try to change something that matters. I dare you. Then come back here and tell me about how my " cynicism speaks volumes" I would love to hear your first hand account on how you were able to make a difference, and how well the system worked for you. Of course pick an item that is very popular with the general population, something that is pretty obvious that most people feel is wrong, something important like I did, and see how far you get. Don't you dare back down either when they tell you," If you don't play the game you won't get anywhere" either. Even when you stay the course you just get burned. Give it a realistic, honest effort and then tell me about the " proper channels". LMAO 

My town already has.  About 10 years ago, we used to have a law that people couldn't drink alcohol within, I believe, 50ft from a Church.  It was a law from a long era.  Despite our large population percentage of elderly, it was repealed by the City Council when someone went around and got signed petitions.

Proper channels... they work.

 Kids do drastic things like " getting arrested for selling lemonade" because they feel they have no other way.

killerTwinkie

A time comes when silence is betrayal. That time has come for us, even when pressed by the demands of inner truth. Men do not easily assume the task of opposing their government's policy, especially in times of war.



I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence today: my own government.



What do they think as we test out our latest weapon on them, just as the Germans on the concentration camps of Europe. Now ther is little left to build on...say bitterness. We are met by deep but understandable mistrust. To speak for them is to explain this lack of confidence in western words. Especially their mistrust of American intentions now.



This way of settling differences is not just. A nation that continues year, after year, to spend more on Military defense instead of social uplift, is approaching spiritual death. Somehow this madness must cease. We must stop now. I speak as one...who loves America.



To the leaders of our own nation: The great innitiative in this war is ours. The innitiative to stop it must be ours.

-- Martin Luther King, Jr.

This discussion trivializes their message.

Their message: We must ALL be spirited in the defense of our liberties, our freedoms. And in this, I support their cause. Not their actions.

Vato26

Originally posted by killerTwinkie

A time comes when silence is betrayal. That time has come for us, even when pressed by the demands of inner truth. Men do not easily assume the task of opposing their government's policy, especially in times of war.



I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence today: my own government.



What do they think as we test out our latest weapon on them, just as the Germans on the concentration camps of Europe. Now ther is little left to build on...say bitterness. We are met by deep but understandable mistrust. To speak for them is to explain this lack of confidence in western words. Especially their mistrust of American intentions now.



This way of settling differences is not just. A nation that continues year, after year, to spend more on Military defense instead of social uplift, is approaching spiritual death. Somehow this madness must cease. We must stop now. I speak as one...who loves America.



To the leaders of our own nation: The great innitiative in this war is ours. The innitiative to stop it must be ours.

-- Martin Luther King, Jr.

This discussion trivializes their message.

Their message: We must ALL be spirited in the defense of our liberties, our freedoms. And in this, I support their cause. Not their actions.

No, MLK Jr's message does not apply to this situation.

No liberties are being infringed upon with permits to do business in DC.

Amana

Locking this after the warning above was apparently not sufficient.