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Tyranids: To Be or Not to Be?
richarddoyle
Member UncommonPosts: 84
So I have to ask the question that I'm sure everyone has probably considered at least once when mulling over Dark Millenium.
Should Tyranids be playable?
What does everybody think?
Personally, I say yes. Now, firstly I'd like to say I'm not a 40k 'lore buff'. I've only ever seen someone else play the original table-top game, I started the series with the Dawn of War games. I know some of the lore, mostly I'm interested in Chaos Space Marine lore, but not a whole lot.
Therefore mostly I expect the people to shoot down the idea are the fans faithful to the lore, who say that Tyranids won't work because they're hive-minded and it doesn't make sense to be able to control a single unit.
However, personally I think they could make it work without completeing BSing the lore ( though MMO makers usually choose that route anyway to make it easier ) and to me the advantages would outweigh the disadvantages.
I'd love to see a truly original, interesting, non-humanoid race in an MMO. The only MMO-- I know of-- that has this is actually Istaria, and I only know of that obscure little MMO because I know someone who played it personally.
I can say, with complete certainty, that including the Tyranids would draw a large number of players who normally would not have thought twice about the game. I mean, it would be awesome to play something DIFFERENT than the same-old-same-old.
But I'm interesting in what people think of this. Is it viable?
On the other hand, I really don't believe at all even in the slightest that this will ever happen, due to the developers not wanting to bother with it. I'm not sure about this, but I think I've heard at least rumors that Tyranids will only show up as NPC enemies... and perhaps Necrons as well. I think that's a mistake... I loved Necrons, they're just bad-ass. I mean, come on, undead robots? Bad. Ass.
Though I guess I could settle for playing as Chaos Space Marines.
.... or you know... the whole game could suck, which is also very likely.... but I can always hope... since... even if I've never played the table-top game, I love the 40k universe. Some of the best lore I've ever seen in a game.
Played: DAoC, AC2, WoW, CoH, GW, GW2, WAR, AoC, Champions Online, Rift, Dragon Nest, Vindictus, Warframe, Neverwinter, Dungeon Fighter Online
Currently Playing: Dungeon Fighter Online Global
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Comments
My two favorite races are the Necrons and the Tyranids. I dont see how either one of them could be put into the game story wise ;(
The tyranids (and the necrons for that matter) could never, EVER be part of a 2-faction storyline. The Necrons will flat out murder anything that isn't a Necron. Period.
The Tyranids are about the same. They get subtle enough to occasionally infest a society with Genestealers first.
Mind you I'm still barely able to stretch Chaos Marines, Dark Eldar, and Orks working together...and they're mmore like thatn the Imperium having an alliance with anyone. Yes, I know it's happened, but they'd be just more likely to fight a war on two Xenos fronts and Emperor protect us all.
Um you do realise the developers have repeatedly said they are huge fans of WoW right ? so dont expect anything new or ground breaking in this MMO. Its probably more realistic to expect WoW with 40K assets.
Tyranids are part of a "Hive Mind" and as I understood id there is not much room for individual thought there. So making them a playable race would kinda fly in the face of what they are as a race. Necrons would be much the same.
The game needs 3 factions minimum & think they could get away with dividing most of the races into one of 3 categories.
1) Good: Space Marines, Edlar, Tau etc
2) Evil: Chaos Marines, Dark Eldar etc
3) Self Serving: Orcs, Tyrannids etc
Sure I know, Tyrannids & Orcs would never work together, but neithere would any of the other groups co-operate long term. My outline Is not perfect since ideally each race would be its own independant faction but 3 factions beats the hell out of 2.
Its a shame Relic are not involved, Dawn of War series & now WH 40k Space marine have all been awesome and stayed very true to the source material.
Yeah... I suppose it just wouldn't work out with the story and the 2 factions... and even if it would work somehow, they wouldn't implement them anyway out of laziness.
Space Marines are pretty bad-ass, and don't get me wrong I love me some Orks, but I mean, they're in basically every 40k PC/console game. I would have liked to see some of the not-so-common factions get into the MMO, but it's just not gonna happen.
Bahhh. D;
Originally posted by TheCrow2k
1) Good: Space Marines, Edlar, Tau etc
2) Evil: Chaos Marines, Dark Eldar etc
3) Self Serving: Orcs, Tyrannids etc
I guess that could work.
Though I dunno if I agree with the "good, evil" thing.
I mean, I don't think that any faction in the 40k universe is really good or evil, they all just have their own beliefs.
Well, I guess Chaos and Dark Eldar are probably the worst, you're going to suffer the most at their hands, not just die but like... suffer eternally, so yeah pretty evil.
But I wouldn't say the Space Marines are good, nor the Eldar or Tau, they all just have their own motives.
Like Space Marines will basically kill anyone who's an alien, right? Destroy the alien, kill the mutant, burn the heretic? Right? So basically anyone who doesn't agree with them dies. Definitely not 'good' so much as a totalitarian force.
Eldar... not really good either, they're always working towards their own goals other usually don't understand right? Plus they've got Khaine, who is definitely not the most friendly deity.
Tau pretty much seem to just want to conquer everything for the oh-so-vague 'Greater Good' which basically means whatever is good for THEIR Empire, not necessarily good for anyone else.
That's why it's hard to group Warhammer or 40k factions together
It's not black and white in 40k lore. It's not "bad guys and good guys"
It's much deeper than that. Sometimes Chaos will side with Orks, because it's easy to use Orks as a distraction... so there' s a temporary faction. Maybe Space Marines and Imperial Guard will team up, or as in the Dawn of War games end up at odds and fight.
It's fluid, so trying to group the factions is just kind of confusing.
Played: DAoC, AC2, WoW, CoH, GW, GW2, WAR, AoC, Champions Online, Rift, Dragon Nest, Vindictus, Warframe, Neverwinter, Dungeon Fighter Online
Currently Playing: Dungeon Fighter Online Global
Waiting for: None
One thing I've wondered about more is the IG.
OK we know the marines are in. Solo or small-team based units with near godlike power compared to the normal human. And maybe the Tau and Eldar will get in there. I can see an elite unit from either standing side-by-side with a marine. By a Guardsman? Even Storm Troopers can't match. The IG was all about numbers. But yet I'd love to play a frail, overly human Guardsman stuck in this mess surrounded by Xenos and Marines.
I'd like to see Tyranids as a playable race, though I don't see it happening. It was said somewhere in that great internet of ours that everything in Dark Millennium Online will become canon in the Warhammer 40k Universe. With that in mind, they have to tread extra careful and be very thankful that Games Workshop doesn't write naked mailbox dancing stories into their codices. :O
But having Tyranids as a playable race would add yet another fast-mover to the field. I very much enjoy the idea of certain classes moving faster than others, because why not? Balance? Pish-posh! Balance is the idea that everyone is equal, and that is never the case regardless of their futile efforts. Get a frugal balance going and call it a day. Maybe shift power every once in a while to keep the players' diapers dry.
Blame Tyranid individuality on the Warp. They're pretty much sitting on Eye2, so they can easily blame anything on the Warp: Mesh clipping? The warp did it. Naked mailbox dancing? It was the warp. Server crash? Warp.
Or how about something stupidly lame to piss off the fans: "Yeah, well. The Technonerds tried to put this-here chip in that-there Tyranid. Yeah, the one playing chess. But you see, the chip had a side effect..." Always end your lorebreaking with an ellipse. It's the vineger and baking soda of the lore world.
In the trailers, there wasn't a single point where a Guardsman stood solo. They may make a class where you control a squad of Guardsmen rather than a single one. From my experience in MMOs (Grenado Espada, Allods Online) where they players controlling more than a single unit, I've found the immersion factor to be much lower than usual. The tabletop game may be about armies, but MMOs are about individuality (and that deserves a thread all its own. :P). Despite my dislike for the idea of controlling a squad, however, it does seem like the best choice. I'm curious how they'll do gear with such a system. :P
Sarcasm is not a crime!
Indeed, only as a faction of its own.
Would be awesome, but alas. Nids lend themselves for some pretty serious and sweet customization.
O_o Where?
I said "Guardsman," which is the generic footman type unit. Do you mean to say that you saw a solo Guardsman somewhere in the video? I just watched it over again a few times to make sure, and couldn't find any. I saw plenty of Imperial Guard classes, but no solo Guardsman. Point it out to me please.
And yeah, Imperial Guard squads make sense, and there are plenty of benefits to doing it that way. It does make it far more believable, and it also makes battlefields more exciting due to the number of characters increasing. But most of all, it allows for some interesting differentiation from the generic battle we're used to seeing in MMOs.
If they go the stupid route and cause all Imperial Guard to take damage as a single unit, then it wouldn't add anything. If they took it the awesome route and made it so each and every squad member took their own damage, had their own damage output, etc, we can potentially see different weapons for each squad member, reinforcement similar to the RTS games, even separate control for each unit within the squad. That last one will probably be a no-go, but I don't see why they wouldn't add in the others. Another benefit is being faced with entirely different combat choices because you're fighting four or five guys/girls rather than a single player.
Of course, the developers might also just use them as a filler NPC race. I'm prepared for such things.
Sarcasm is not a crime!
I expect 100%, despite my wishes, the IG will be a background filler NPC race. My thoughts on the race/class layout will be this:
1) Two faction design (Already confirmed I believe)
2) Order side: Space Marines, Eldar, Tau
3) Destruction Side: Chaos Marines, Dark Eldar, Orks
Classes
Marines: Devastator (long range nuke), Tactical (tanks), Assault (Melee DPS), Apothecary (heals)
Don't feel like breaking down theories on classes for other races, cause I'd need to bust out a codex book or three.
Well the race is imperium of man not just space marines so we should see imperial guard, also im sure that i have read somewhere that there will not be devastators
What I meant by filler NPC race is the Guardsmen. Generic run of the mill guardsmen are an extremely likely candidate to clog up battles and make it seem more exciting. We the players are going to be the "heroes" (bleh), and those insignificant guardsmen are going to be the pawns to eat some damage before the real warriors step onto the field.
That's the idea anyway, and I hope they allow people to play whatever they want. I know I'm not the only one who dislikes being a "hero." Sometimes I just want to be the nameless guy in the corner.
In the IG video, I did see some player that looked like a Guardsman, but had a red (or some similar color) jacket on and was slightly more "fit for battle." He's the one throwing a grenade around 43s and at 1:06 into the video. I'm curious what class they are and how they'll fit in. My ignorance of the 40k universe hits a wall when I get past the generic unit types.
Sarcasm is not a crime!
They wouldn't work as a playable race in anything but an RTS. The have no personality, how would you make the gear progression on something that doesn't really have gear. They all look the same, they don't talk. They are a massive swarm of insects.
They are awsome, I only played tyranid in the table top game. Even have that old disturbing looking Carnifex, but I just don't see them working as a playable race.
Heh , some things in life are best left the way they are , and WarHammer is better off as a Table top game rather then a MMO. Now if the MMO would be a table top game feeling where you can play vs computers / players to level up to enlarge and equip your army , then it might be interesting and might be worth the wait. But if it's gonna be another WoW / Aion / LA2 / LoTro and hundreds more I can't think of right now , then it's better off being left as it is.
Agree, they are perfect for RTS, but for mmo I just cant see them as playble race. But they could manage it if they would made game more hybrid between RTS and RPG, Imo DoW2 was pretty close to RPG despite it being RTS game. But I doubt they will do it, it seems they have choosen safe route WoW like mmo
.
Necrons lose ego coherence as their memory engrams degrade everytime they ressurect. Plus they would never ally as their primary purpose is to harvest life force for their C'tan star gods.
I can't possibly see how 'nids can be a playable race. Who gets to play the Hive Mind?
And it saddens me that they are using the much maligned 2 faction system again in the warhammer setting. War in the grim future isn't about balance or any semblance of fairness. If most want to play, say Tau, and they have the numbers, no true servant of the God-Emperor complains. They just dig in.
WH40K is about forlorn hopes, heroic last stands in the face of certain doom. It is about heresy and war. It is about putting the bolter to the head of your enemy and blasting their brains out.
I wish the developers would embrace that idea and just make a multifaction game and to hell about things like class balance, faction populations and what not. Make the game about blood, honor and the apocalypse and I gauruntee you it will be fun. Anyone picking up the game and thinking "this sucks, we are overwhelmed" doesn't get the idea of the game. Because sometimes you get to be the side that says "This galaxy will be ours!"
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I say yes please nids in the game are a must. As a playable race it could be really cool and different if done right. That can be said of every race in40k tho. As a playable race nids could reinforce multiple sided conflicts if Vigil drops the 2 sided feature.
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well if you change the lore of every faction fighting with each other into 2 factions, the super racist, elitist, xenophobic space marines are now figting hand in hand with eldars etc... it will be super hit game! (/sarcasm off)
Another 2 faction WAR, when will they learn...
nids and necrons cant be playable. reason being nids are a horde army they only work as a swarm. where as orks can work solo/smaller scale, its very hard to pull that off with a nid unless you break out the synap units but then you wind up getting the OP complaints i mean how would a bulk marine kill a rampaging carn?? the odds of a 1 v 1 fight and the marine winning is next to nill.
as for necrons.. they allie with no one period they clense every thing of life.. so they would not work well in a "team" based mmo
you can get away with orks helping DE and chaos as there are storys in the fluff of orks being absorbed by chaos gods. making chaos worshiping orks though its rare as orks tend to kill the chaos ones. weirdboyz are a good example of chaotic orks.
heck in the first few misisons of DoW2 you deal with orks being used by eldar against imperials, so orks can work solo and team based. im sure the same is true for DE...
the "good" side is more iffy cause soo many refuse to work with either side.
though im a semi-retired TTer soo i would love to see a MMO that had every race or a FFA faction based war allow me to play gaurd or marine and form a temp ally with eldar or something then turn around and kill them
BUT then you get gameplay blance and all that crap
I've wondered why so many people think like this.
remove the concept of playing a single character. Imagine instead, playing a single group. You start play as a 3 Hormagaunts. together they make up your 'character'. As you advance in level your group evolves into larger numbers or just larger units. Instead of picking skills for your individual character you're picking new mods for your unit or different units.
To simulate the 'hive' mind, if you stay close to other nid players and work with them you'd get bonuses like + to hit, damage, or xp. There is no loot just new genetic mods available to your units.
Obviously you can't MAKE the nid players follow 'the hive mind' but then again, you can't make the IG stay in their 'squad' and not move around a bunch.
My main hope is they don't do anything uber silly like put necrons and nids on the same world. I'm willing to accept plently of lore 'bending' but since nids avoid any world with ANY necron presence no matter how much bio-mass there is, it would be too much of a break of the lore to have both on the same world.
Though I suppose it's theoretically possible for necrons to attack a world that's already being attacked by the nids.
We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alternately, you could do the necrons the same way. Start play at a trio or warriors. As you battle it out you gain more units, upgrades to current units, ect.
Again, to simulate the necron group mind you can award bonues for sticking with other necrons, not retreating or running for cover.
Imho I don't see reason nids or nocrons couldn't be a playable race. They would just have to be a private faction. Be honest, how many WOULDN'T want to at least try playing as a nid or necron?
We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
I want to be a Dalek! or is that the wrong game? Can i atleast be Robocop? thats Warhammer40k right? i'm sure we could discuss a way to fit it into the lore? right?...sheesh!!!!!!!!!!!
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There are issues with the two faction system enough. Adding in necrons or tyranid would be probably push the fans of the IP over the edge. They're already strained as it is. :P
Something interesting which you may like the sound of was posted here: Link
It could easily be expanded to handle a tyranid war or two, especially since it wouldn't interfere in the main game at all; just use the framework for it. You wouldn't be a full-time tyranid, running around singlemindedly killing and devouring flesh, but I doubt people would complain about a part time job for the sake of reliving epic battles the fluff itself has given us.
But in the game? No thanks. And this is from a person who wants everyone to huggle and be merry (while killing each other of course). :'(
Sarcasm is not a crime!
That 's an interesting concept but I'm not sure if I like the Idea of playing a character that I couldn't keep or advance. That only existed for the duration of the fight. That sounds like a FPS. fun in the short term but debatable in the long term.
We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
As I've said before, whatever decision they make people will be disappointed.
Tyranids just can't be a player race rofl. People wouldn't get used to them. Sure you could have 'biological' implants or extra limbs as 'gear' lol, but erm yeah...
Tyranid talks to Tyranid NPC or hell Another Race.
[Insert Riveting Conversation here]
Enuff said.
MAIM KILL BURN MAIM KILL BURN!!
I see where you're going on the conversation end of things. But I don't think it's a problem that can't be fixed. Most quests are phrased in a fashion like you have a choice.
For nids, give them the choice to choose but phrase it like they don't. For example, you see the quest and accept it. You then get a directive from the hive mind to go do the quest.
The hard part I think would be how would the players GET their quests. It would be awkward to have to go talk to an NPC nid with a question mark over his head. That wouldn't work for nids or necrons.
We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.