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Are RvR and territory control finally making a comeback and here to stay?
MMO.Maverick
Member CommonPosts: 7,619
Yeah, I know it has been done before: DAoC, EVE Online, DF, L1 and L2, all games where you can find RvR or strategic PvP with persistent impact like territory and base control in the open world.
Yet it wasn't seen that much at all in most AAA MMO's of the past 5-6 years.
However, when I look at the upcoming AAA titles, it looks like RvR or strategic PvP and territory control are coming back with a vengeance, in one form or the other:
- GW2, has World vs World PvP with RTS elements in an expansive fortnight-persistent region where the player populations of 3 servers will battle for keeps and resource hotspots.
- SWTOR, has RvR lakes and PvP planets, where Republic and Empire will try to conquer, claim and hold bases and turrets and fight over other objectives.
- The Secret World, will have open world hotspots where the 3 factions Illuminati, Templars and Dragon will fight to conquer them to gain control over those parts of the world and reap the faction wide benefits that come from them.
- Arche Age, will provide the possibility to build player towns, strongholds and castles with the option to lay siege and assault them.
I can't say how things will be for TERA and Firefall, but those are 4 of the biggest MMORPG titles that will appear in the upcoing 1-1.5 year and they all include some form of expanded PvP and RvR elements.
I think it's a good development, and the path that should be taken: PvP in MMO's should include more features and mechanics that add a strategic element to it because of longterm, persistent effects.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
Of those listed, I think only TSW has a chance to make a significant splash in this area. If done right, it could be the next big PvP MMO.
SW:TOR has a slim chance, but I don't think Bioware will pursue it heavily enough.
You may have a point. Truth is, RvR / strategic PvP has never really gone away. That list of yours could double if you open it up to all MMOs.
I do think though, that WAR put a spotlight on 2 things, though. First being the potentials of dynamic questing (which we are seeing more attempts at). Second being the potentials of RvR-type PvP. While the game itself is basically a failure, I think those two mechanics have raised a lot of eyebrows with developers, and we are seeing the first wave of that now.
I wouldn't be that pessimistic. Mythic is basically handling the PvP side of the game, while Bioware focuses on the PvE / Story progression.
If you liked PvP in WAR, it's looking to be very similar, but hopefully done a bit better.
Oh, it wasn't about that RvR was something new, just that it was seen (far too) rarely in MMO's that also had PvP as a feature.
As for WAR, it was my understanding that DAoC's RvR model was superior to that of WAR's in several aspects, but that's right, it should be included in my former list as well as one of the MMO's that had it.
I like the new wave of MMO's though where features like more meaningful PvP seems to be more commonly included.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I really hope so.
Raiding, to me, is very boring. I don't mind doing 5-mans with friends, questing, and the like. But if a game wants to keep me interested, theres nothing like territory control in my MMO. I never tire of it, if its done well. BGs and perhaps Arenas will hold my interest for awhile, but not like RvR
I hope not. Nothing marginalizes skill and decisions like PVP that's won by having more players online.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I think RvR will make a comback some way or another, but not exactly the same as it was in DaoC and similar games.
The RvR system of the future will probably not be so much about numbers as it was in the past.
It will be very interesting to see how CCP handles this in World of darkness online, the little I heard so far sounds promising.
The way I see it, WoD will probably be released even later than Titan or Defiance, considering its pre-production stage, the far smaller team and resource pool that CCP has compared to a Blizzard, and the rate of development that CCP has shown so far over the years, with announced new features appearing years later than was announced or expected.
I have removed WoD from my personal list of upcoming MMO's for 2012-2013. It'll see launch at the earliest in 2014 and probably even later. Believing anything else, that it'll arrive in 2013 or so, is wishful thinking.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
RVR is legally registered in some manner, so most games won't use the term however in the past 5-6 years, the games that meet your criteria of RvR or strategic PvP with persistent impact like territory and base control in the open world have been just as common.
PotBS
Auto Assault
Rift
Aion
STO (not familiar with the game myself, so going by this)
Those are some of the titles that meet your above criteria and fall under the umbrella of AAA as commonly defined - high dollar title backed by a publisher. If all MMO titles were included there would be a dozen or so more.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Rift doesn't fall in that list, neither do Auto Assault and STO.
Aion does, with the bases and such. The kind of RvR or 'territory control PvP' that I was referring to was what you see in DAoC, L2, EVE Online and such. The kind of PvP that you see reappear in upcoming MMO's like AA, SWTOR, GW2 and TSW.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yeah let's hope for fuck all variety out there in the mmo genre. That mmos aimed at bringing together masses of people don't try and use that for conflict and instead keep pushing out really, really, really shit versions of the kind of team pvp you can find in other games which specifically cater to that kind of thing....
I mean you would have to be some kind of frigging lunatic to want mass scale pvp in a game centred on bringing masses of people together amirite?
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Mav,
It seems like the devs are looking to add something into their games that current games are lacking. This is likely one of those things and one they can grow and try new things with. Lets just hope it's something they can do a great job at providing entertainment with rather than just another check on the product feature list.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
It should be obvious that Auto Assault's or STO's or Rift's 'RvR' or world PvP are nowhere near a DAoC or WAR.
If you can't see that, then I can't explain it to you
I suggest you play DAoC for a while to see how it is.
And yes, to me what new MMO's like GW2, SWTOR, AA and TSW are implementing come a lot closer to a DAoC model than those other MMO models like Rift and Auto Assault and such.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'd like to see attack and defend become more common in MMORPGs. Although not the most balanced form of PVP, it is something to do.
... and not having anything to do is a major source of boredom.
Despite its many bugs and flaws, you may have enjoyed Shadowbane. Sieging a city included different strategies on both the attacking and defending sides.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
All "upcoming MMOs" ..maybe goes without saying, but I dunno, its a little hard to muster any enthusiasm, when I feel like we've heard it all before. I'll have to see how they actually play, and by that, I mean more than just a few hours with a convention demo. RvR and territory control is an easy thing to cover just well enough to toss into bullet point list of game features, but making it deep enough to actually work is something else entirely.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Well, I think we'll still be waiting for a game to feel like DAoC again, but this newest crop of AAA games certainly comes close. Look for TOR's RvR to feel similar to WAR, though hopefully with a few improvements and polish. GW2 and TSW, I don't know enough about to really comment on, but the descriptions you've provided make them sound like good contenders. ArchAge might fit the bill, but there's also the possibility that it feels more like Darkfall. So we'll see.
The fact that TOR's RVR has only two sides will be a problem to me. GW2, imho, has the best chance of recapturing the DAoC feeling... not to say TOR won't have some fun moments in RVR lakes, but to me, the third side is really integral to capturing the DAoC feel.
I mostly wish I could incorporate DAoC's pvp system and setup into some of the existing MMOs today
http://www.primeonline.com/
More hyped about this game than any other. This is the return of open world pvp , not the ones listed.
I agree, just reading the message boards, it is flooded with exDAOC players, and it has Sanya as the community rep (from DAOC). I will prolly be released before a lot of other games like TSW and GW2.
Indeed, and pitchblack games even has a live stream weekly, doing q&a's, trivia giveaways, and new updates. The game has gone unnoticed, but I think any fans of pvp will be big fans of this game once it gets released. It has unique and interesting crafting, and a lot of pve content as well(though pvp is the main focus).
I'd forgotten about Prime, yes, that looks good too, though I'm not a big fan of their races. Still will try it when it comes out, hopefully getting into the beta first.
thats more detrimental than benefitial, tbh. the last thing a sleeper niche game from a small indie company needs is a elitist and gated community.
has the daoc community become elitist and gated? it didn't used to be, but then again, I haven't kept in touch with it since ToA, when I left the game.