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GW2 and its in-game shop
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There have been a few things like this, where it sounds like ArenaNet is actually talking about the...er...NCSoft Store and not the in-game store, where people have tried to make it about it being a cash shop.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
The irony of this thread is so thick you honestly could cut it with a knife like butter. People that have never played GW1 and have never experienced the PVE and PVP game telling people that have played both that GW1 is pay to win. Oh my god this is the funniest things I have ever seen in my life. Hey guys I have never been to space, but I am going to let you all know that everyone else is wrong space isn’t cold! Ah I see how fun that is; it is a blast to talk crap about something you have no knowledge to back up what you mouth is spewing.
/ I take my hat off to all the people in this thread that made GW1 sound like it was pay to win and people believed it. Congratulations you should go into politics since apparently you can get people to eat crap and say it was good afterwards!
This is the funniest post ever. It's great watching guild wars fans defending skill packs sold in cash shop and defending dungeons and potions being sold in cash shop.
You'll never get them to admit that gw2 is really just a f2p game but thier making you buy the box. You'll need the cash shop as much as ANY f2p game out there.
I even read a post a few pages back where a guy defended the selling of skill packs in gw1 by saying "yeah, but the guy that just bought it, instead of earning it, doesn't know how to use it, so its no advantage" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why make such a scientific debate out of a game with a cash shop. You can sugarcoat the cash shop all you want, it still stinks.
When buying an xp pot is considered "paying to win" there's not a whole lot of wiggle room in how the term applies to this. It's one or the other. Either using money to speed up the "grind" (read time) to reach a goal is paying to win or it isn't, you can't use such a "label" on a case by case basis, not in the way that is on display in this thread.
On top of that can someone point out to me exactly how B2P differentiates itself from F2P as far as cash shops are concerned? If it's value it most certainly goes to F2P considering there's no box fee to start playing or continue to do so..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You know, I have never bought anything from the GW1 store and my four characters are no less well-off than anyone elses. And no, I didn't have to sink hundreds of hours extra into the game to get them there.
I wonder why people do this.. they sit there with blinkers on and even when proved wrong the still think they know it all and that they are right.
Have you played GW1? How about you link us your HoM to prove you know the game and we can give you a shout in game to confirm it's you? Until then, take it from the people who play the game that the cash shop is fluff and fluff only. We don't want the game to be P2W anymore than you guys do, why don't you stop arguing semantics and read what we are writing without totally ignoring it thinking you know more about a game you don't play than it's own playerbase do.
Then again, having looked at the first few pages of your posting history, Travamars, it seems you're either butthurt about something or you're just a troll. My money is on both of them being correct.
You're right in one thing. Your post was the funniest post ever.
I don't think there is anything that seperates B2P and F2P cash shops, it's more to do with how the game studio is tbh.
Of course B2P games would be less likely to have P2W cash shops but that doesn't make the two things mutally exclusive.
And while I agree with you that potentially buying to reduce grind could be labeled as P2W it does need to be taken in context though. Paying to get rid of 100 hours of grind is pretty P2W while doing so to unlock the biggest, baddest character with the biggest baddest ship in EVE isn't really winning so much as it is failing. In the end what you paid for and what advantage you gained needs to be compared to the person who didn't buy it and then you have to judge for yourself if it is P2W or not. The only place you can really draw a line is buying something which gives you actual, statistical, advantage. Paying to save time is a grey area and needs to be treated as such.
As it was in GW1 the skill packs saved time for those who had no idea wtf they were doing and had no interest in learning the game and also didn't fancy running through the campaigns (Not many people at all), for everyone else they were more or less a complete waste of money and hardly saved any time at all in the long run.
well, if pvp is your concern the instance pvp your gear is set the same as everyone elses. ive read that the cash shop is mostly going to have cosmetics and im down with that.
I have yet to see a cash shop not evolve into a pay to win type thing in the games I have played. They start out with good intentions, but greed takes over and things change. I hope GW2 will be different...
I could see DLC and fluff (costumes, vanity pets). Once you go beyond that though...meh.
Some might argue that DLC could be considered P2W - since you are buying additional content that might provide better loot.
Sounds like an expansion, and people generally do not call them P2W do they...?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
The way ANET see gear it can't really be pay2win.
All lvl 80 gear is balanced against eachother just like skills so you can't really sell any uber gear, just better looking.
Balanced in PvP... but what about PvE? They had stated that there would be a greater emphasis on gear in GW2 compared to GW1...but that it would still be balanced for PvP. That still leaves the door open for PvE.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Ass I said, all gear is balanced against eachother and that goes both for PvE and PvP.
In PvP lower lvl gear is supposed to scale up, but max level gear is always balanced.
Balanced isn't exactly that all items are the same though. Some gear will be great for certain classes with certain skills and so on while just acceptable for other classes.
But no, GW2 will have very little gear stat focus, ANET have stated that many times.The idea is that there will be other things you want to do in the endgame than the old hamsterwheel.
Due to the fact that prof Porche were the guy who made the first WW (based on a drawing hitler made)?
Yeah, that is ironic. But hardly any dumber post than you can find 20 of every day.
The whole idea that something which cost more must be better is somewhat naive. Some Chinese kids probably made both the cheapest and most expensive jeans in the same sweat shop anyways.
Comnparing the development cost of the games would be at least somewhat fairer, Czek seems to think that the more they overprice the better, but even devolopment price is a poor measure of quality.
WAR was many times as expensive as Minecraft to make, and the game with over a million players still ain't WAR.
A great lead designer and a great lead programmer (which GW2 had Jeff Strain for both those things until 2 years ago at least) makes a lot more than the greatest budget ever.
As ultimate proof I will use 2 movies: Waterworld & Speed 2. 'Nuff said.
Was just going off the info from interviews and the wiki stating that equipment was going to matter more in GW2 than GW1...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
The folowing from another thread.
So travamars, are you for or against cash shops, because I'm reading that your a f2p fan/player. generally f2p games require you to spend a lot more than what your stating and you really dont want to be spending the equivilent of a box game at the start of playing a f2p. Most money spent is between mid to end game, but you never get to end game because they wait until the spending slows down and introduce new areas and level cap and new shop items. Take a look at the rune system on RoM and see how much you need to spend on runes to get the top tier runes you need, a lot lot lot more than $65. Basicly its a pay to win like most f2p games are.
GW2 will be eyecandy / fluff / cosmetic or whatever you like to call them, the selling of skills packs wasnt a pay to win because the skills required are so easy to obtain, the lazy people bought them.
And you can sugarcoat all the f2p games cash shops you want, the are pay to win.
I envision that even a single class will want different gear for different specs... Which would even allow for more flexibillity in building your characters... But all top level gear should be equally powerfull, but not all gear is fit for every build.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I dont know why you go to the trouble to investigate my posts and come up with this, but..
.in one post i'm showing how people cry about f2p and tell lies about how much they are forced to spend over p2p when that is not true at all....now if you want to start playing a f2p and rush and power level your way to the highest lvl yeah you'll spend more, but if you actually PLAY the game you wont. People complaining about how much they spent in LOTRO where the ones I was talking to there. I never spent a dime on that game and only PLAYED it and completed quest as i went along (never did i just grind anything) and i still earned enough money to buy a riding skill and mount from the store and unlock new areas when i was ready to enter them. So if people didn't try to get to max lvl in the first week they wouldn't have to pay much more than a p2p game (if any)
As for the post i made here it means what i said... GW2 has a cash shop. Everybody complains about f2p because of a cash shop and what they sell..but gw can sell SKILL PACKS....yes that what i wrote....SKILL PACKS. That means you can buy....say it with me now.....SKILLS...I find it very funny hearing how that doesn't matter. And the fact that they'll have maps, potions, and tons of other dlc people still find it great news.
So since your into investigating peoples old post you should look up how many people that are defending GW cash shops in this thread complained in my earlier post about how much they hated f2p and cash shops. Now that would be very interesting.
And to answer your question i'm not a big fan of f2p but i dont see the evil oozing from it other people claim. Most of the f2p games are just not good quality.
a subscription is not needed to make a profit and not every company is greedy a la blizzard.
I would not go so far as to say that. I have seen far worse statements on here. I hate to say it but the unwashed masses have the perception, in general terms, that because it cost more it is worth more or is better.
GW uses this non-sub model as a differentiator from the rest of the MMO market space, not because the game is not worthy of a sub. GW2 is going to be a solid game as was the first series. I am also sure that Anet is just as profit hungry (AKA: Greedy) as Blizzard or any other developer. While they might have a love for games these companies are created to make money. This is just the model they have chosen and it worked the first time around.
It all boils down to what you want from a game. Ive played GW, although not for long, and ive played several titles that were built on the P2P model as well as tried a F2P or two. Hows the quality of LOTRO content since Turbine started working on the F2P version? There will always be F2P / B2P games for those who will settle for less. Again I will ask, why will GW2 have a cash shop? According to your theory its certainly not needed, anymore than a sub fee is needed.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
Every company revolves around its bottom line. Every company, big or small, public or private, must answer to its investors. No company does anything without expecting profit.
Just like we go to work every day to feed our families, game companies make games to feed theirs.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Heh, never change, Corehaven.
I read your post history and I came to a different conclusion. That we should just stop replying to you.
Your greatest achievement in GW1 was apparently uninstalling it because it sucked, yet you still claim to have played it for 2 years.
I understand you don't like cash shops, you've made that abundantly clear.
We've stated several times in this thread that GW1 didn't offer anything that provided any kind of advantage until content development had stopped, and that the things that do are side effects of things with other goals. Skill packs were designed to allow players to catch up to established players. Mercenary heroes were clearly designed to appeal to vanity. Yet what we say doesn't matter.
There was an article a year ago where the interviewer totally made something up about xp potions, yet you're totally convinced GW2 is selling them despite all evidence to the contrary. ArenaNet has proclaimed time and again they won't sell power in their cash shop, and the circumstances that led to it in GW1 no longer apply (all skills in structured PVP, no heroes at all), yet this doesn't matter to you.
If you don't want to play the game because it has a cash shop, by all means don't. But if you're going to post here and have a "CASH SHOP BAD" response everytime anybody brings it up in any context, don't be surprised if people stop replying to you.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Actually the brand name Volkswagen literally means "people's car". So in theory, the brand was established to create a mass market for cars in Germany. This in turn meant that the cars produced by Volkswagen were envisioned to not be as expensive, as luxurious, and as good as a Porsche.
Furthermore, comparing Minecraft to Warhammer Online is as irrelevant as comparing Hello Kitty Online to Batman: Arkham Asylum. They're both extremely different games with extremely different concepts. In order to formulate a reasonable analysis based solely on numbers, you must stay within the logical parameters of the discussion.
Also, it is rather delusional and imprudent to think of money as something less than major in the development of any product. Creative thinking and idealistic mindsets can only get you so far (of course, there most certainly are, even though rarely, exceptions to this rule).
Presumably, Guild Wars 2 is not part of this exception and it most definitely lives off the capital it makes. You can't have a large business with small amounts of revenue coming in every month. You need to constantly push out content, maintain a healthy development team, perpetuate your infrastructure, support multitudes of online services, among other crucial factors.