I have to say I was sketchy about this MASSIVE change to the traditional talent system at first; but, after analyzing all of the points made in the arguments, I have to say it is truely a better way to go. I've played WoW since launch and I cannot deny that upon reaching end game I always went straight ot the forums to research that one special build that EVERYONE was using. So honestly, I see no real point in having such a messy/useless system.
On the subject of less choice in MMOs, my son showed me some f2p mmo the other day where you literally clicked the quest in the quest-log, and your toon pathed and ran to the next phase automatically?! unbelievable. Better to just watch a movie (2 hours) than to play the stuff most companies seem to be coming out with now.
On the subject of less choice in MMOs, my son showed me some f2p mmo the other day where you literally clicked the quest in the quest-log, and your toon pathed and ran to the next phase automatically?! unbelievable. Better to just watch a movie (2 hours) than to play the stuff most companies seem to be coming out with now.
less choice = epic fail.
That sounds like it has less to do about choices and more to do with automation. Letting the game play itself isn't the same as cutting out fat from a game. You still have choices with this new build; they just won't end up being the exact same as everyone else if you want a character that matters; because, these choices are purely cosmetic. Isn't that what cusomization should really be about in a game to begin with? Why should I have to choose between a talent tree that looks more appealing; but, does less than everyone else just to be different? See, in that case your choices are between being an individual and sucking at the game or doing what everyone else is doing for a win.
I dont understand why anyone would have an issue with this. Instead of having to research the must have talents for raiding or pvp u get them automaticly.
Sure u only get 6 things to choose from in 2.0 and it may seem like less choice but in reality u had to take all the same skills as everyone else and only had 1-4 pts max that u actually had any choice in cata trees. and pre cata it was even less it was pretty much raid with this or dont raid period u had no choice.
U either ran the best build people figured out or u didnt get to do end game stuff period. U had no ch oice at all. U basicly were stuck with the build that worked best for what u wanted.
At least in 2.0 u have 6 actualy choice. Thats more then cata and pre cata combined. it looks like all the choices will be basicly the same kinda skill in each level so no real advantage of one over the other. so u will at least have 6 choices to make of skills u perfer as opposed to finding out the ultimate build so u can raid.
At leats in 2.0 u have actualy choices that more then i can say before the chagnes coming in mop.
If you thought it was stale gaining 1 talent per level while leveling before and made you feel like you lacked any 'progression' in a level, the new talent system will make you feel like a level doesn't do jack at all.
Basically its not really creating any sense of 'choice', just robbing people of having something to 'invest' in as you level. Sure, talents didn't provide that large of a boost, but it made you feel like you just did something by dinging.
2.0 Talents won't make a large difference for people at max level, its pretty much a stupified talent tree from before which will have the same issue they claim of 'having choice' popping up as similiar trends will continue to follow with a 'superior' spec. Itsm those leveling that will suffer... and suffer horribly.
yea because auto matic traiing or new abilities as they beome available wont make u feel like u are accomplishing anything at all.
Please all the old talent system did was make me look up the correct build for my class. It didnt make me feel like i was gaiing anything until i got that one talent that was an actual ability , like riptide or hand of guildan the rest were just + this + that type skills
they were boring and didnt make me feel more powerful or like id accomplished anything. it was just a tedious process and in fact id go 2-3 levels alot of time and never acutally spend my pts cause i knew i wasnt gaining anything meaninfful
2.0 wont change anything i just get my spec talents and abliities automaticly at the appropriate level instead of having to put my pts in to get them.
you still need to spec to the respective tress you want, like warriors arms, fury and protection, and still have to choose the talents in them, this new "talents "is an addition , inregardless which tree you have chosen
you still need to spec to the respective tress you want, like warriors arms, fury and protection, and still have to choose the talents in them, this new "talents "is an addition , inregardless which tree you have chosen
That is...not technically correct...based on the posts over in the WoW forums (guesses all the same).
You choose your specialization. You do not choose a tree. You receive abilities as you level based on your specialization.
Your talents are actually selected from a "neutral" collection of trees.
It just seems weird to me that Blizzard thinks they CAN fix the problem of the "path of least resistance" or "opportunity cost"...
Those things are what happens not just in WoW, but occurs in nature, and in any system. Cookie-cutter build happens not because of a bad system but because of the best strategy (path of least resistance) and what's preceived as the choice with least negatives (opportunity cost). It happens in economy, it happens in nature, and it happens in MMO. It is NATURAL and it is not caused by a bad system, but by the nature of evolution and logical thinking itself.
Even with the new talent system cookie-cutter build is still going to happen. There will always be a better overall advantage to a certain build/strategy in a greater variety of situations as compare to others. You can't force a tiger to hunt a alligator. There are just somethings that are not worth the effort and some that are.
Blizzard must think that they can do a better job than nature or God if they think the can fix "path of least resistance" or "opportunity cost"... lol
In TBC you had alot of talents and i like it alot, some talents where useless, but you also had some unique builds.
WoW is dumping it down to monkey level where evry1 is the same, healers / tanks / dps all walking around with the same builds for their class -_-
props if you like it, but i like to have some choice in the matter and its all disapearing quickly with Ghostcrawler, maybe he wants his grandma to play wow and she was having a hard time to decide how to spec ?
MoP with pokemoen and kung fu panda's added aint my cup of tea either, props if you like it man realy.
But alot of the players dislike it also and they might realy get fed up with this stuff after the cataclysm failure.
How much can you take before calling it quits ?
GW2 and SWtor are on the horizon and i welcome those fresh mmo's.
Blizzard with lead designer Ghostcrawler did nothing but bad stuff in my eyes except queue from all around the world wich they stole from Warhammer.
And like they steal all ideas and never come up with anything themselves lately.
Blizzard stealing your money with retarded prices to change server with 10 chars when your server died due to many people leaving wow.
Man will they have a hard time holding on to the people who dislike MoP and dint like Cataclysm.
We started off with 3 talent trees that you could put points into ... nay tree at any time ... as you see fit.
The we went to a system that narrowed the choices forcing us inot a single tree until a higher level at which time you could chose talents ... though only a few ... fro the other 2 trees.
Now they want you to have a pick of only 1 out of three every 15 levels.
Wouldn't it be best if they just dumped the talent trees and just let a Ret Pally be a Ret Pally and Shadow Priest just a Shsdow Priest? This game gets more simple as time goes on. Remember when we had to train skills? Gone. Had to be carefull on which talents you picked? Gone. Hunters and ammo? Gone. Class quests? Gone. Rogues had to make poisons? Gone.
When is the line crossed between making the game more efficient vs insulting the intellegence of your players?
I'n many ways its similar to a talent system in a game called Knight Online
This was taken straight from GW and GW2 system. I guess the developers who made it into Anet's special test group actually decided to steal another great idea. We will see how this plays out and hopefully won't drive off more players like cata did.
Comments
I have to say I was sketchy about this MASSIVE change to the traditional talent system at first; but, after analyzing all of the points made in the arguments, I have to say it is truely a better way to go. I've played WoW since launch and I cannot deny that upon reaching end game I always went straight ot the forums to research that one special build that EVERYONE was using. So honestly, I see no real point in having such a messy/useless system.
YOU have the CHOICE to NOT use that path feature.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
That sounds like it has less to do about choices and more to do with automation. Letting the game play itself isn't the same as cutting out fat from a game. You still have choices with this new build; they just won't end up being the exact same as everyone else if you want a character that matters; because, these choices are purely cosmetic. Isn't that what cusomization should really be about in a game to begin with? Why should I have to choose between a talent tree that looks more appealing; but, does less than everyone else just to be different? See, in that case your choices are between being an individual and sucking at the game or doing what everyone else is doing for a win.
I dont understand why anyone would have an issue with this. Instead of having to research the must have talents for raiding or pvp u get them automaticly.
Sure u only get 6 things to choose from in 2.0 and it may seem like less choice but in reality u had to take all the same skills as everyone else and only had 1-4 pts max that u actually had any choice in cata trees. and pre cata it was even less it was pretty much raid with this or dont raid period u had no choice.
U either ran the best build people figured out or u didnt get to do end game stuff period. U had no ch oice at all. U basicly were stuck with the build that worked best for what u wanted.
At least in 2.0 u have 6 actualy choice. Thats more then cata and pre cata combined. it looks like all the choices will be basicly the same kinda skill in each level so no real advantage of one over the other. so u will at least have 6 choices to make of skills u perfer as opposed to finding out the ultimate build so u can raid.
At leats in 2.0 u have actualy choices that more then i can say before the chagnes coming in mop.
Said it once and I'll say it once before...
If you thought it was stale gaining 1 talent per level while leveling before and made you feel like you lacked any 'progression' in a level, the new talent system will make you feel like a level doesn't do jack at all.
Basically its not really creating any sense of 'choice', just robbing people of having something to 'invest' in as you level. Sure, talents didn't provide that large of a boost, but it made you feel like you just did something by dinging.
2.0 Talents won't make a large difference for people at max level, its pretty much a stupified talent tree from before which will have the same issue they claim of 'having choice' popping up as similiar trends will continue to follow with a 'superior' spec. Itsm those leveling that will suffer... and suffer horribly.
yea because auto matic traiing or new abilities as they beome available wont make u feel like u are accomplishing anything at all.
Please all the old talent system did was make me look up the correct build for my class. It didnt make me feel like i was gaiing anything until i got that one talent that was an actual ability , like riptide or hand of guildan the rest were just + this + that type skills
they were boring and didnt make me feel more powerful or like id accomplished anything. it was just a tedious process and in fact id go 2-3 levels alot of time and never acutally spend my pts cause i knew i wasnt gaining anything meaninfful
2.0 wont change anything i just get my spec talents and abliities automaticly at the appropriate level instead of having to put my pts in to get them.
RIP Orc Choppa
That is...not technically correct...based on the posts over in the WoW forums (guesses all the same).
You choose your specialization. You do not choose a tree. You receive abilities as you level based on your specialization.
Your talents are actually selected from a "neutral" collection of trees.
http://www.wowhead.com/mists-of-pandaria-talent-calculator#w
Pre-Cata: You could do some goofy (but fun) hybrid builds.
Cata: More focus - less choice.
MoP: Even more focus - quirky hybrid choices.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
It just seems weird to me that Blizzard thinks they CAN fix the problem of the "path of least resistance" or "opportunity cost"...
Those things are what happens not just in WoW, but occurs in nature, and in any system. Cookie-cutter build happens not because of a bad system but because of the best strategy (path of least resistance) and what's preceived as the choice with least negatives (opportunity cost). It happens in economy, it happens in nature, and it happens in MMO. It is NATURAL and it is not caused by a bad system, but by the nature of evolution and logical thinking itself.
Even with the new talent system cookie-cutter build is still going to happen. There will always be a better overall advantage to a certain build/strategy in a greater variety of situations as compare to others. You can't force a tiger to hunt a alligator. There are just somethings that are not worth the effort and some that are.
Blizzard must think that they can do a better job than nature or God if they think the can fix "path of least resistance" or "opportunity cost"... lol
I don't feel in the least bit excited or inspired by Blizzards new expansion pack.
In TBC you had alot of talents and i like it alot, some talents where useless, but you also had some unique builds.
WoW is dumping it down to monkey level where evry1 is the same, healers / tanks / dps all walking around with the same builds for their class -_-
props if you like it, but i like to have some choice in the matter and its all disapearing quickly with Ghostcrawler, maybe he wants his grandma to play wow and she was having a hard time to decide how to spec ?
MoP with pokemoen and kung fu panda's added aint my cup of tea either, props if you like it man realy.
But alot of the players dislike it also and they might realy get fed up with this stuff after the cataclysm failure.
How much can you take before calling it quits ?
GW2 and SWtor are on the horizon and i welcome those fresh mmo's.
Blizzard with lead designer Ghostcrawler did nothing but bad stuff in my eyes except queue from all around the world wich they stole from Warhammer.
And like they steal all ideas and never come up with anything themselves lately.
Blizzard stealing your money with retarded prices to change server with 10 chars when your server died due to many people leaving wow.
Man will they have a hard time holding on to the people who dislike MoP and dint like Cataclysm.
We started off with 3 talent trees that you could put points into ... nay tree at any time ... as you see fit.
The we went to a system that narrowed the choices forcing us inot a single tree until a higher level at which time you could chose talents ... though only a few ... fro the other 2 trees.
Now they want you to have a pick of only 1 out of three every 15 levels.
Wouldn't it be best if they just dumped the talent trees and just let a Ret Pally be a Ret Pally and Shadow Priest just a Shsdow Priest? This game gets more simple as time goes on. Remember when we had to train skills? Gone. Had to be carefull on which talents you picked? Gone. Hunters and ammo? Gone. Class quests? Gone. Rogues had to make poisons? Gone.
When is the line crossed between making the game more efficient vs insulting the intellegence of your players?
Wow Was offically pathetic with WoTLK.
It's just been going down hill ever since.
The best time in WoW was before the expansions started. If you missed that, you missed the good times.
That is really all that needs to be said here.
This was taken straight from GW and GW2 system. I guess the developers who made it into Anet's special test group actually decided to steal another great idea. We will see how this plays out and hopefully won't drive off more players like cata did.
It could be better this way... less abilities means less number crunching.
Member of Talon | www.lakexeno.com
RIFT: Redcameo, Warrior, Faemist Server
RIFT: Bluecameo, Mage, Faemist Server
VIVA Pandas !!! .. soz no but anyway ,, im playing skyrim !!