Lineage 2 has always been pay 2 win. People just don't like others having something they can't have. goldselling in this game destroyed the economy and you nearly had to buy gold just to stay in touch. The people complaining about this probably have never played lineage 2 and probably never would but they just want to rag on it now because it's free 2 play.
I played Lineage 2 for 4+ years, never bought a single Adena and earned everything in-game, by playing. I made money by playing the market some, flipping seal stones, cashing in on events, selling the rare full-drop, etc. I've known several others who did the same.
It has nothing to do with me "not liking others having something I can't". I can have anything in the game I want to get, just as I've gotten everything else I wanted.
I'm not a fan of power or advantage being sold on a cash shop.
But mostly, and the core point of this thread that some people keep ignoring, I'm not a fan of NCSoft flat out lying prior to the release by stating it would sell only fluff and xp-enhancement items, only to turn around and sell and/or promote those exact type of items from day 1.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
It was not a lie, they did tell they were selling buffs. And the weapon is also something they mentioned in their LIMITED booster packs.
You overreacted.
They said they would not sell anything that would give advantage in PvP.
+40% to MP and HP and a boost to both PAtk and Attack Speed can most certainly give an advantage in PvP. It could mean the difference between
They said they would sell buffs in the context of helping people to level up, such as xp boosts, etc... given that they stated items sold would not give an advantage in PvP.
However, the boosts they are selling (via the Zaken Swords and, yes, the S-grade weapon in certain circumstances), are not limited to "boosting xp". They can give a very real advantage in PvP and can mean the difference in someone winning a fight they would have otherwise lost. That difference will not have been earned in-game, but bought in a cash shop.
I'm not over-reacting at all. I'm seeing it for exactly what it is.
You, however, are spinning like a top.
By all means, continue spinning, distorting and trying to make it sound like something other than what ti is.
The proof is on their webpage, in full color, for all to see.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Lineage 2 has always been pay 2 win. People just don't like others having something they can't have. goldselling in this game destroyed the economy and you nearly had to buy gold just to stay in touch. The people complaining about this probably have never played lineage 2 and probably never would but they just want to rag on it now because it's free 2 play.
I played Lineage 2 for 4+ years, never bought a single Adena and earned everything in-game, by playing. I made money by playing the market some, flipping seal stones, cashing in on events, selling the rare full-drop, etc. I've known several others who did the same.
It has nothing to do with me "not liking others having something I can't". I can have anything in the game I want to get, just as I've gotten everything else I wanted.
I'm not a fan of power or advantage being sold on a cash shop.
But mostly, and the core point of this thread that some people keep ignoring, I'm not a fan of NCSoft flat out lying prior to the release by stating it would sell only fluff and xp-enhancement items, only to turn around and sell and/or promote those exact type of items from day 1.
The average gamer does not play the market like that. It is one item in a game thats free 2 play..costs you nothing at all, be happy or just don't play it. if you are a long time lineage 2 player RMT shouldn't bother you at all because it's at the very core of the game.
In GoD the accessories will have stats/item uses. So you may have to trade them in for the cash shop items. Also they didnt mention you could not get any of these buffs ingame. They did have these items in some events we have had. They have been in the game for some time now.
For years you have had the advantage of time to spend to your hearts content.
Why should I not be afforded the option to use my money to do the same?
I could care less what others what do with their time, is it possible that some can return the favor? Especially when speaking for a F2P model, P2W or whatever you want to call it. I smell so much hypocrisy when the shoe is on the other foot.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Lineage 2 has always been pay 2 win. People just don't like others having something they can't have. goldselling in this game destroyed the economy and you nearly had to buy gold just to stay in touch. The people complaining about this probably have never played lineage 2 and probably never would but they just want to rag on it now because it's free 2 play.
I played Lineage 2 for 4+ years, never bought a single Adena and earned everything in-game, by playing. I made money by playing the market some, flipping seal stones, cashing in on events, selling the rare full-drop, etc. I've known several others who did the same.
It has nothing to do with me "not liking others having something I can't". I can have anything in the game I want to get, just as I've gotten everything else I wanted.
I'm not a fan of power or advantage being sold on a cash shop.
But mostly, and the core point of this thread that some people keep ignoring, I'm not a fan of NCSoft flat out lying prior to the release by stating it would sell only fluff and xp-enhancement items, only to turn around and sell and/or promote those exact type of items from day 1.
The average gamer does not play the market like that. It is one item in a game thats free 2 play..costs you nothing at all, be happy or just don't play it. if you are a long time lineage 2 player RMT shouldn't bother you at all because it's at the very core of the game.
It's 2 items to start. Being sold on day 1. After weeks of NCSoft insisting they wouldn't be selling anything but fluff and xp enhancements. They even specifically mentioned xp scrolls, pets to fight along side you. They never mentioned anything like Zaken's Swords or full S-Grade weapons. I'm sure that was a calculated decision on their part.
A full S-grade weapon is not a "fluff item", or mere 'xp enhancement'. It's a full high-grade weapon. Who has it, or how many have it is irrelevant. What is relevant is that it's not a "fluff item" and NC are selling it.
The boosts from Zaken's Swords is not "a fluff item" or "mere xp enhancement". It's a significant buff that can clearly be used to get an advantage in PvP over another player without it.
It's very obvious, plain as day, clear as crystal. It's amazing how people are trying to spin it otherwise.
You don't speak for the "average gamer". You speak for yourself. And if the "average gamer" in L2 bought adena to get where they are, that doesn't mean it was "okay". It was still buying power, outside NCSoft's (admittedly horribly enforced) EULA.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Lineage 2 has always been pay 2 win. People just don't like others having something they can't have. goldselling in this game destroyed the economy and you nearly had to buy gold just to stay in touch. The people complaining about this probably have never played lineage 2 and probably never would but they just want to rag on it now because it's free 2 play.
I played Lineage 2 for 4+ years, never bought a single Adena and earned everything in-game, by playing. I made money by playing the market some, flipping seal stones, cashing in on events, selling the rare full-drop, etc. I've known several others who did the same.
It has nothing to do with me "not liking others having something I can't". I can have anything in the game I want to get, just as I've gotten everything else I wanted.
I'm not a fan of power or advantage being sold on a cash shop.
But mostly, and the core point of this thread that some people keep ignoring, I'm not a fan of NCSoft flat out lying prior to the release by stating it would sell only fluff and xp-enhancement items, only to turn around and sell and/or promote those exact type of items from day 1.
The average gamer does not play the market like that. It is one item in a game thats free 2 play..costs you nothing at all, be happy or just don't play it. if you are a long time lineage 2 player RMT shouldn't bother you at all because it's at the very core of the game.
It's 2 items to start. Being sold on day 1. After weeks of NCSoft insisting they wouldn't be selling anything but fluff and xp enhancements.
A full S-grade weapon is not a "fluff item", or mere 'xp enhancement'. It's a full high-grade weapon.
The boosts from Zaken's Swords is not "a fluff item" or "mere xp enhancement". It's a significant buff that can clearly be used to get an advantage in PvP over another player without it.
It's very obvious, plain as day, clear as crystal. It's amazing how people are trying to spin it otherwise.
You don't speak for the "average gamer". You speak for yourself. And if the "average gamer" in L2 bought adena to get where they are, that doesn't mean it was "okay". It was still buying power, outside NCSoft's (admittedly horribly enforced) EULA.
If there is a way to get this item in the game then by default your argument about an advantage is moot because in reality they are not selling an advantage. Also it seems like the people that are actually playing L2 are not concerned with such an underpowered bonus weapon. Are you a L2 player may I ask?
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
For years you have had the advantage of time to spend to your hearts content.
Why should I not be afforded the option to use my money to do the same?
... I think you're in the wrong thread. The argument of "time versus money" has nothing to do with this topic.
I could care less what others what do with their time, is it possible that some can return the favor? Especially when speaking for a F2P model, P2W or whatever you want to call it. I smell so much hypocrisy when the shoe is on the other foot.
... again. Wrong thread.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
For years you have had the advantage of time to spend to your hearts content.
Why should I not be afforded the option to use my money to do the same?
... I think you're in the wrong thread. The argument of "time versus money" has nothing to do with this topic.
I could care less what others what do with their time, is it possible that some can return the favor? Especially when speaking for a F2P model, P2W or whatever you want to call it. I smell so much hypocrisy when the shoe is on the other foot.
... again. Wrong thread.
But why are you questioning what they stock their store with? Maybe they have done their research and came to the conclusion that players like me would spend cash on low level advantages like this bonus weapon and buff, but not exp items and such. But you are crying foul and pointing fingers, yet you do not shop at their store at all. Yes, yes I know, they SAID they would not sell weapons and such in their store, but no one on the official forums are complaining at the level you seems to be. Is it maybe because:
They understand these tiems are irrelevant with the GoD update
The same items/benefits can be obtained within the game already
Better items are sought out when you've actually played the game for an extended amount of time
I've read all the responses and I still do not see why you are barking up this tree, unless like I stated, you have a problem with how others spend their money.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Lineage 2 has always been pay 2 win. People just don't like others having something they can't have. goldselling in this game destroyed the economy and you nearly had to buy gold just to stay in touch. The people complaining about this probably have never played lineage 2 and probably never would but they just want to rag on it now because it's free 2 play.
I played Lineage 2 for 4+ years, never bought a single Adena and earned everything in-game, by playing. I made money by playing the market some, flipping seal stones, cashing in on events, selling the rare full-drop, etc. I've known several others who did the same.
It has nothing to do with me "not liking others having something I can't". I can have anything in the game I want to get, just as I've gotten everything else I wanted.
I'm not a fan of power or advantage being sold on a cash shop.
But mostly, and the core point of this thread that some people keep ignoring, I'm not a fan of NCSoft flat out lying prior to the release by stating it would sell only fluff and xp-enhancement items, only to turn around and sell and/or promote those exact type of items from day 1.
The average gamer does not play the market like that. It is one item in a game thats free 2 play..costs you nothing at all, be happy or just don't play it. if you are a long time lineage 2 player RMT shouldn't bother you at all because it's at the very core of the game.
It's 2 items to start. Being sold on day 1. After weeks of NCSoft insisting they wouldn't be selling anything but fluff and xp enhancements.
A full S-grade weapon is not a "fluff item", or mere 'xp enhancement'. It's a full high-grade weapon.
The boosts from Zaken's Swords is not "a fluff item" or "mere xp enhancement". It's a significant buff that can clearly be used to get an advantage in PvP over another player without it.
It's very obvious, plain as day, clear as crystal. It's amazing how people are trying to spin it otherwise.
You don't speak for the "average gamer". You speak for yourself. And if the "average gamer" in L2 bought adena to get where they are, that doesn't mean it was "okay". It was still buying power, outside NCSoft's (admittedly horribly enforced) EULA.
If there is a way to get this item in the game then by default your argument about an advantage is moot because in reality they are not selling an advantage. Also it seems like the people that are actually playing L2 are not concerned with such an underpowered bonus weapon. Are you a L2 player may I ask?
I've been a L2 player for over 4+ years. I haven't been playing recently, though I had been reinstalling again to check out GoD.
But that's neither here nor there. I can already tell you're setting me up for the classic "you aren't playing so your opinion don't matter dur hur"... but that dog won't hunt regardless.
My point has nothing to do with whether I'm playing or not. It's purely about what NCSoft said they would do compared with what they're actually doing.
The point is simply this:
NCSoft said they would only sell fluff items and things - such as scrolls and the like - to enhance xp gain. They said they would not sell anything that would make the player more powerful in PvP.
Is a weapon a "fluff item"? No, it isn't.
Is an item that gives 40% boosts to HP and MP, plus boosts to PATK and Atk speed a "fluff" item? No it isn't. It very clearly makes the player more powerful in PvP and can even be the deciding factor in someone winning a fight they might have otherwise lost. It's selling power.
Here is the point in a tidy little nutshell: NCSoft said they wouldn't sell anything that could give players an advantage. It's day one of the "F2P" version... and they already are.
The efforts being made here aren't lost on me, mind you. This thread's red herring population has increased quite rapidly in a short amount of time.
The apologist arguments being made to dismiss or spin the issue are so transparent and so predictable I could have almost scripted them before a single one was given. I expected no different when I started the post, because well.. that's just the way of it around here and on forums in general. Apologists will always do everything in their power to discredit a valid point being made that they don't want to acknowledge.
My post wasn't made for those people's benefits.
It was made to point out a simple fact: NCSoft made repeated assurances that the cash shop would be fluff and xp/leveling enhancement items only. As of them launching the cash shop, it is already clear that they did not keep their word.
If people are okay with that... great! Then they're okay with it. I'm not here to tell people what they should think of it. I'm just here to say "Hey, I was skeptical when NC said they wouldn't sell any kind of advantage-giving items on the cash shop, and my skepticism was justified".
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Level cap will be 99 and this weapon is for lvl 80. As I said, the weapon will not affect the game in any sort, it will help to level to 99.
AS I SAID, they did mention the LIMITED bundle where you would get a vesper weapon (which is just a bad weapon in GoD and will be only used to level up with).
The buffs(zaken sword accessory) however MAY be an advantage in PvP IF there will no way of getting these buffs ingame. But accessory will have stats in GoD so thats still to be seen.
Overall Im happy with this shop, its not bad at all if you compare it with other f2ps
Vesper right now is Low S84 and its what most high level people right now are using because its the cheapest S84 weapon but still very good. When GoD launches Vesper weapons will be S80. I see that you only get the Vesper Destiny weapon if you buy their top Destiny Pack so this is there way of selling that high doller pack that cost almost $50. LMAO
This is wrong people and it should not be in game period.
damn from day 1, that be some cash shop 6 months down the road.
I woulden't be suprised if its gonna come close to pay or die, I mean people really go far for winning pvp in l2 cough ranger/radar ^_^, not to mention Ncwest is so greedy looking back at their way of dealing with bots trough the years.
The buffs you would get from these items(zaken spirit sword) are NOT stackable with the prophecy buffs you would get from buffer classes ( CoV,PoW,PoF,VoP etc...) So again, this will only help players to level up without using a dual box buffer or having a friend buffer. In actual competetive PvP you will be fully buffed so these items will not make a difference because the prophecy buffs you get from a normal buffer is superior to these one. Only time this could give you an advantage is in the lower levels where the buffers don't have access to prophecies.
Originally posted by WSIMike
Vesper Dual Sword of Destiny (Earth) S-grade: P. Atk: 482, M. Atk: 176, Atk. Spd: Normal, Crit. Rate: 8.00, Soulshot Used: x1, Spiritshot Used: x1, Weight: 152. Can be enchanted with Destiny Scroll: Enchant Weapon (S-grade). If enchanted to level 4 or higher, increases Crit. Atk. by 109 and Max HP by 10%. Increases the damage inflicted during PvP. Earth Lv 4 (Earth P. Atk. 150).
As for the weapon above... it will not have the extra stats you mentioned unless you will enchant it to +4. Which no one in their right minds would do because you can't sell it again and its just as good as a normal vesper weapon. It's just an ordinary vesper dual sword which will be irrelevant at the later game. If this would be a top grade GoD weapon then yea... I would understand your concerns.
So, when NCSoft kept insisting there would be nothing but fluff items in the shop, and things to help people level such as xp enhancements, etc... I was extremely skeptical.
Looking at the preview of the cash shop "specials" they have up on the new site, it seems my skepticism was warranted.
Within 1 minute, these two items were displayed:
Zaken's Spirit Swords - +40% to HP and MP, +20% Attk Spd and P Attk, for 30 minutes... with a 2 hour delay between use and 7 days of use.
If you buy their most expensive "exploration pack" now, before the official release of GoD, you get a bonus S-Grade weapon...
Vesper Dual Sword of Destiny (Earth) S-grade: P. Atk: 482, M. Atk: 176, Atk. Spd: Normal, Crit. Rate: 8.00, Soulshot Used: x1, Spiritshot Used: x1, Weight: 152. Can be enchanted with Destiny Scroll: Enchant Weapon (S-grade). If enchanted to level 4 or higher, increases Crit. Atk. by 109 and Max HP by 10%. Increases the damage inflicted during PvP. Earth Lv 4 (Earth P. Atk. 150).
I do recall them insisting there would be nothing in the cash shop but fluff.... Weapons are certainly not fluff. +40% to HP and MP, +20% Attk Spd and P Attk for 30 minutes is not fluff. They further insisted there would be nothing in the cash shop that could affect PvP, yet look at the line I bolded and italicized in the description above... so you can't even say "Oh, well that weapon would only improve people's PvE".
So... with all their insistance that there would be nothing but fluff and items to help people with getting xp, and leveling (pets, etc)... Right from minute 1, they're offering or promoting non-fluff items.
Not that I'm surprised. They've gone Cash Shop, so they're going to have to put items in there that go beyond mere "fluff" and "optional leveling aids" if they want to guarantee sales.
I just would rather they didn't lie about it beforehand.
Spin it, dismiss it or twist it around any way that sounds good to you ("you" in general), it is what it is. They guaranteed they wouldn't sell anything that would give an advantage to players on the cash shop.... and they already are. From day 1. I can just about imagine what will be sold or "promoted" on there down the road.
Complained about this on the official forums already and I got flamed by the 'fanbois' that this sword was not Pay2Win and stuff like that. AHUM, as if? The stuff in the promotional 3600 NCoin thing IS Pay2Win in my book. A couple of R-grade scrolls? Dunno how long you gotta 'grind' to get your hands on those, but I'm sure to get all offered you'll be busy for days (if not weeks) before you got them all. Also some scrolls to make blessed R-grade (chance)?
Like you, I'm VERY DISAPPOINTED in NCWest. At least Innova is honest about adding Pay2Win (chance to get from box) to their cash shop...
Well sir Mike you are catching on,i have lkearned to not even listen to ANY dev tha ttalks cash shop.There is absolutley no predictability to a cash shop,i is merely HIDDEN costs.No developer is in this business for charity,they decide on a payment plan it is what they beleive the most possible profit.
I prefer a developer to put that extra time and effrot into making a better game than sitting around with board members deciding on new gimmicks to rip players off.
New rule of the ages,stay away from cash shops.I see a cash shop i laugh at it.
This is probably why my msot respect has always gone to Square Enix,yo usee how they pulled subs until the customer was satisfied.Their FFXI is the oldest MMORPG that still has not gone cash shop and i think is still the ONLY cross platform game.
I have never liked NCSOFT since the day i started playing Lineage2 back in the day.Then you got to witness the Lord British fiascal,MOST have witnessed the massive botting with a non existent support team that couldn't care less.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Originally posted by WSIMike So, when NCSoft kept insisting there would be nothing but fluff items in the shop, and things to help people level such as xp enhancements, etc... I was extremely skeptical. Looking at the preview of the cash shop "specials" they have up on the new site, it seems my skepticism was warranted. Within 1 minute, these two items were displayed: Zaken's Spirit Swords - +40% to HP and MP, +20% Attk Spd and P Attk, for 30 minutes... with a 2 hour delay between use and 7 days of use. If you buy their most expensive "exploration pack" now, before the official release of GoD, you get a bonus S-Grade weapon... Vesper Dual Sword of Destiny (Earth) S-grade: P. Atk: 482, M. Atk: 176, Atk. Spd: Normal, Crit. Rate: 8.00, Soulshot Used: x1, Spiritshot Used: x1, Weight: 152. Can be enchanted with Destiny Scroll: Enchant Weapon (S-grade). If enchanted to level 4 or higher, increases Crit. Atk. by 109 and Max HP by 10%. Increases the damage inflicted during PvP. Earth Lv 4 (Earth P. Atk. 150). I do recall them insisting there would be nothing in the cash shop but fluff.... Weapons are certainly not fluff. +40% to HP and MP, +20% Attk Spd and P Attk for 30 minutes is not fluff. They further insisted there would be nothing in the cash shop that could affect PvP, yet look at the line I bolded and italicized in the description above... so you can't even say "Oh, well that weapon would only improve people's PvE". So... with all their insistance that there would be nothing but fluff and items to help people with getting xp, and leveling (pets, etc)... Right from minute 1, they're offering or promoting non-fluff items. Not that I'm surprised. They've gone Cash Shop, so they're going to have to put items in there that go beyond mere "fluff" and "optional leveling aids" if they want to guarantee sales. I just would rather they didn't lie about it beforehand. Spin it, dismiss it or twist it around any way that sounds good to you ("you" in general), it is what it is. They guaranteed they wouldn't sell anything that would give an advantage to players on the cash shop.... and they already are. From day 1. I can just about imagine what will be sold or "promoted" on there down the road.
And the rogue of the year award goes to....NCSOFT!
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Whatever, I still think its not a game-breaking shop at all. Only thing I agree with is with reizla on the R-grade scrolls, that's pretty lame to sell in there. But it's a good thing they are here for a limited time only (untill 29 november). So that shouldn't cause much problem. For everything else in the shop there is a ingame equivalent of it which is better most of the time. This is just for people that don't have the time to, for example, level another buffer.
I can't understand all the drama about the cash shop, people that will want to buy high grade equipment will always do so with RMT.
As for innova, we don't know yet. They did say this though:
The game will have a new free-to-play business model and players will be offered a wide selection of items that provide temporary buffs, accelerate their character progression and/or express their personal style. Innova has confirmed that all Lineage II gameplay will be absolutely free and accessible to everyone, and no items will be offered that directly affect game balance.
All weapons A grade and above increase damage done during PvP, not just this one.
Again... That's not the point.
The point is, NC said they would not sell anything but fluff or xp enhancements on the cash shop.
A weapon is not fluff, regardless of who has it or who doesn't.
Also, the Zaken Spirit Sword (which I notice several people already quite conspicuously not even acknowledging) is a pure example of advantage and power being sold... something they also said they wouldn't do.
Folks, you can try to spin, dismiss or explain it away all you like... It is what it is.
They said they would only sell fluff or purely xp enhancing items. They're selling non-fluff items that go well beyond being only "xp enhancing".
Again, I'm not surprised they are. I would have been more surprised if they actually didn't, given my experience with Cash Shop MMOs in the past. Again, I would prefer they didn't lie about it.
I was just stating a fact, not trying to spin anything. I don't care about what kind of things they sell because the changes that GoD brought regarding class identity made me cross L2 from my list.
I see a bunch of crybabies in here. So you all crying about a limited offer that includes a nontradable weapon which is only a low S grade and a buff? If it was an R grade weapon i can understand but who cares about S grade. You all do understand that they have to make money somehow to pay their emploees and to maintain the servers right?
I see your point. But eh, I'm not worried. I played Lineage 2 for so long with the crappiest gear, I would barely have enough Adena to purchase SS. lol. I,m just really excited to be able to play again soon I was going to get the Destiny Pack... But that is like 3600 NC Coins.... So like 4000 would cost $US 50 bucks
Comments
I played Lineage 2 for 4+ years, never bought a single Adena and earned everything in-game, by playing. I made money by playing the market some, flipping seal stones, cashing in on events, selling the rare full-drop, etc. I've known several others who did the same.
It has nothing to do with me "not liking others having something I can't". I can have anything in the game I want to get, just as I've gotten everything else I wanted.
I'm not a fan of power or advantage being sold on a cash shop.
But mostly, and the core point of this thread that some people keep ignoring, I'm not a fan of NCSoft flat out lying prior to the release by stating it would sell only fluff and xp-enhancement items, only to turn around and sell and/or promote those exact type of items from day 1.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
They said they would not sell anything that would give advantage in PvP.
+40% to MP and HP and a boost to both PAtk and Attack Speed can most certainly give an advantage in PvP. It could mean the difference between
They said they would sell buffs in the context of helping people to level up, such as xp boosts, etc... given that they stated items sold would not give an advantage in PvP.
However, the boosts they are selling (via the Zaken Swords and, yes, the S-grade weapon in certain circumstances), are not limited to "boosting xp". They can give a very real advantage in PvP and can mean the difference in someone winning a fight they would have otherwise lost. That difference will not have been earned in-game, but bought in a cash shop.
I'm not over-reacting at all. I'm seeing it for exactly what it is.
You, however, are spinning like a top.
By all means, continue spinning, distorting and trying to make it sound like something other than what ti is.
The proof is on their webpage, in full color, for all to see.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The average gamer does not play the market like that. It is one item in a game thats free 2 play..costs you nothing at all, be happy or just don't play it. if you are a long time lineage 2 player RMT shouldn't bother you at all because it's at the very core of the game.
For years you have had the advantage of time to spend to your hearts content.
Why should I not be afforded the option to use my money to do the same?
I could care less what others what do with their time, is it possible that some can return the favor? Especially when speaking for a F2P model, P2W or whatever you want to call it. I smell so much hypocrisy when the shoe is on the other foot.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
It's 2 items to start. Being sold on day 1. After weeks of NCSoft insisting they wouldn't be selling anything but fluff and xp enhancements. They even specifically mentioned xp scrolls, pets to fight along side you. They never mentioned anything like Zaken's Swords or full S-Grade weapons. I'm sure that was a calculated decision on their part.
A full S-grade weapon is not a "fluff item", or mere 'xp enhancement'. It's a full high-grade weapon. Who has it, or how many have it is irrelevant. What is relevant is that it's not a "fluff item" and NC are selling it.
The boosts from Zaken's Swords is not "a fluff item" or "mere xp enhancement". It's a significant buff that can clearly be used to get an advantage in PvP over another player without it.
It's very obvious, plain as day, clear as crystal. It's amazing how people are trying to spin it otherwise.
You don't speak for the "average gamer". You speak for yourself. And if the "average gamer" in L2 bought adena to get where they are, that doesn't mean it was "okay". It was still buying power, outside NCSoft's (admittedly horribly enforced) EULA.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
If there is a way to get this item in the game then by default your argument about an advantage is moot because in reality they are not selling an advantage. Also it seems like the people that are actually playing L2 are not concerned with such an underpowered bonus weapon. Are you a L2 player may I ask?
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I am going now to check out the cash shop and see what they are selling.
But why are you questioning what they stock their store with? Maybe they have done their research and came to the conclusion that players like me would spend cash on low level advantages like this bonus weapon and buff, but not exp items and such. But you are crying foul and pointing fingers, yet you do not shop at their store at all. Yes, yes I know, they SAID they would not sell weapons and such in their store, but no one on the official forums are complaining at the level you seems to be. Is it maybe because:
They understand these tiems are irrelevant with the GoD update
The same items/benefits can be obtained within the game already
Better items are sought out when you've actually played the game for an extended amount of time
I've read all the responses and I still do not see why you are barking up this tree, unless like I stated, you have a problem with how others spend their money.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I've been a L2 player for over 4+ years. I haven't been playing recently, though I had been reinstalling again to check out GoD.
But that's neither here nor there. I can already tell you're setting me up for the classic "you aren't playing so your opinion don't matter dur hur"... but that dog won't hunt regardless.
My point has nothing to do with whether I'm playing or not. It's purely about what NCSoft said they would do compared with what they're actually doing.
The point is simply this:
NCSoft said they would only sell fluff items and things - such as scrolls and the like - to enhance xp gain. They said they would not sell anything that would make the player more powerful in PvP.
Is a weapon a "fluff item"? No, it isn't.
Is an item that gives 40% boosts to HP and MP, plus boosts to PATK and Atk speed a "fluff" item? No it isn't. It very clearly makes the player more powerful in PvP and can even be the deciding factor in someone winning a fight they might have otherwise lost. It's selling power.
Here is the point in a tidy little nutshell: NCSoft said they wouldn't sell anything that could give players an advantage. It's day one of the "F2P" version... and they already are.
The efforts being made here aren't lost on me, mind you. This thread's red herring population has increased quite rapidly in a short amount of time.
The apologist arguments being made to dismiss or spin the issue are so transparent and so predictable I could have almost scripted them before a single one was given. I expected no different when I started the post, because well.. that's just the way of it around here and on forums in general. Apologists will always do everything in their power to discredit a valid point being made that they don't want to acknowledge.
My post wasn't made for those people's benefits.
It was made to point out a simple fact: NCSoft made repeated assurances that the cash shop would be fluff and xp/leveling enhancement items only. As of them launching the cash shop, it is already clear that they did not keep their word.
If people are okay with that... great! Then they're okay with it. I'm not here to tell people what they should think of it. I'm just here to say "Hey, I was skeptical when NC said they wouldn't sell any kind of advantage-giving items on the cash shop, and my skepticism was justified".
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
What is the level cap in L2, and what is the level of that weapon?
AS I SAID, they did mention the LIMITED bundle where you would get a vesper weapon (which is just a bad weapon in GoD and will be only used to level up with).
The buffs(zaken sword accessory) however MAY be an advantage in PvP IF there will no way of getting these buffs ingame. But accessory will have stats in GoD so thats still to be seen.
Overall Im happy with this shop, its not bad at all if you compare it with other f2ps
Vesper right now is Low S84 and its what most high level people right now are using because its the cheapest S84 weapon but still very good. When GoD launches Vesper weapons will be S80. I see that you only get the Vesper Destiny weapon if you buy their top Destiny Pack so this is there way of selling that high doller pack that cost almost $50. LMAO
This is wrong people and it should not be in game period.
so swords are fluff? there are some hyped games that will release soon with a cash shop with only'"fluff", im starting to get worried lol
damn from day 1, that be some cash shop 6 months down the road.
I woulden't be suprised if its gonna come close to pay or die, I mean people really go far for winning pvp in l2 cough ranger/radar ^_^, not to mention Ncwest is so greedy looking back at their way of dealing with bots trough the years.
Tbf pretty much all 'f2p' which only have an actual item mall will end this way.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Ok, did some research.
The buffs you would get from these items(zaken spirit sword) are NOT stackable with the prophecy buffs you would get from buffer classes ( CoV,PoW,PoF,VoP etc...) So again, this will only help players to level up without using a dual box buffer or having a friend buffer. In actual competetive PvP you will be fully buffed so these items will not make a difference because the prophecy buffs you get from a normal buffer is superior to these one. Only time this could give you an advantage is in the lower levels where the buffers don't have access to prophecies.
As for the weapon above... it will not have the extra stats you mentioned unless you will enchant it to +4. Which no one in their right minds would do because you can't sell it again and its just as good as a normal vesper weapon. It's just an ordinary vesper dual sword which will be irrelevant at the later game. If this would be a top grade GoD weapon then yea... I would understand your concerns.
Complained about this on the official forums already and I got flamed by the 'fanbois' that this sword was not Pay2Win and stuff like that. AHUM, as if? The stuff in the promotional 3600 NCoin thing IS Pay2Win in my book. A couple of R-grade scrolls? Dunno how long you gotta 'grind' to get your hands on those, but I'm sure to get all offered you'll be busy for days (if not weeks) before you got them all. Also some scrolls to make blessed R-grade (chance)?
Like you, I'm VERY DISAPPOINTED in NCWest. At least Innova is honest about adding Pay2Win (chance to get from box) to their cash shop...
Well sir Mike you are catching on,i have lkearned to not even listen to ANY dev tha ttalks cash shop.There is absolutley no predictability to a cash shop,i is merely HIDDEN costs.No developer is in this business for charity,they decide on a payment plan it is what they beleive the most possible profit.
I prefer a developer to put that extra time and effrot into making a better game than sitting around with board members deciding on new gimmicks to rip players off.
New rule of the ages,stay away from cash shops.I see a cash shop i laugh at it.
This is probably why my msot respect has always gone to Square Enix,yo usee how they pulled subs until the customer was satisfied.Their FFXI is the oldest MMORPG that still has not gone cash shop and i think is still the ONLY cross platform game.
I have never liked NCSOFT since the day i started playing Lineage2 back in the day.Then you got to witness the Lord British fiascal,MOST have witnessed the massive botting with a non existent support team that couldn't care less.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
And the rogue of the year award goes to....NCSOFT!
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Whatever, I still think its not a game-breaking shop at all. Only thing I agree with is with reizla on the R-grade scrolls, that's pretty lame to sell in there. But it's a good thing they are here for a limited time only (untill 29 november). So that shouldn't cause much problem. For everything else in the shop there is a ingame equivalent of it which is better most of the time. This is just for people that don't have the time to, for example, level another buffer.
I can't understand all the drama about the cash shop, people that will want to buy high grade equipment will always do so with RMT.
As for innova, we don't know yet. They did say this though:
The game will have a new free-to-play business model and players will be offered a wide selection of items that provide temporary buffs, accelerate their character progression and/or express their personal style. Innova has confirmed that all Lineage II gameplay will be absolutely free and accessible to everyone, and no items will be offered that directly affect game balance.
http://www.l2database.ws/2011/11/innova-opens-new-lineage-ii-european-service-in-early-december-free-to-play/
It looks pretty similar to what ncsoft said... so we still have wait this one out :P
I was just stating a fact, not trying to spin anything. I don't care about what kind of things they sell because the changes that GoD brought regarding class identity made me cross L2 from my list.
I see a bunch of crybabies in here. So you all crying about a limited offer that includes a nontradable weapon which is only a low S grade and a buff? If it was an R grade weapon i can understand but who cares about S grade. You all do understand that they have to make money somehow to pay their emploees and to maintain the servers right?
I see your point. But eh, I'm not worried. I played Lineage 2 for so long with the crappiest gear, I would barely have enough Adena to purchase SS. lol. I,m just really excited to be able to play again soon
I was going to get the Destiny Pack... But that is like 3600 NC Coins.... So like 4000 would cost $US 50 bucks 