Second highlighted: If the shop is locked...just wait a few hours and it will open. If someone is using the forge...just try to use it and they instantly leave.
Second highlighted: If the shop is locked...just wait a few hours and it will open. If someone is using the forge...just try to use it and they instantly leave.
"Someone else is using that right now".
Go ahead....try it.
Yeah it says that once, and then THEY INSTANTLY LEAVE so you can do it a half a second later. Go ahead, try it. I got blacksmithing to 100...so I know.
If waiting a half a second is such an inconvenience then I really don't know what to say.
I have the PC version btw, I don't know if it's different for XBOX or PS3.
I simply don't know where you are pulling that evaluation from mister. Gotta see things for what they are, that's what i'm trying to say if your wonder what i'm ranting about. Comparing a Single-player RPG catered for one player and his/her total immersion against an MMORPG catered for thousands up to millions of players immersion produced to fit for that many makes the whole thing a bit bizarre and obvious that the MMORPG is going to be lacking immersion-wise.
I agree, 100%
So why does everyone here keep trying to compare SWTOR to Skyrim??
see what I did here?
Unless I'm mistaken, you compared SWTOR to Skyrim and then argued that people should not compare SWTOR to Skyrim.
If this is some kind of satire...then I'm not really getting it .
I simply don't know where you are pulling that evaluation from mister. Gotta see things for what they are, that's what i'm trying to say if your wonder what i'm ranting about. Comparing a Single-player RPG catered for one player and his/her total immersion against an MMORPG catered for thousands up to millions of players immersion produced to fit for that many makes the whole thing a bit bizarre and obvious that the MMORPG is going to be lacking immersion-wise.
I agree, 100%
So why does everyone here keep trying to compare SWTOR to Skyrim??
see what I did here?
just compare the numbers of NPC's in Skyrim to the number of NPC's in SWTOR, in Skyrim i almost know all NPC's individually and by name. This makes you understqnd why all NPC's in Skyrim are fleshed out individually and why TOR has choosen for the more typical NPC we know from all other games, concentrating to flesh out the keyplayers in your stories.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
After playing Skyrim every games world feels static.
Personally compared to WoW, Lotro, WAR and RIFT (My last 4 themeparks) TOR is no more static than the ones i listed.
This
I didn't see any difference from SWTOR as the rest of those listed. I think we would all like mmos to be more like Skyrim or The Witcher 2 in how alive the worlds are. But we haven't seen that yet.
We wont see a world like Skyrim in the mmorpg genre in quite a while.
The tech isnt there imo. Think about all the little things in skyrim that would just break down once you place thousands of people in the world. Everything the system has to keep track off. its too much.
I actually find Skyrim's (and all elder scrolls games) world to be rather....cardboard. It's just a facade. How many times can you walk past the same NPC and have them recite the exact same line before it just shatters the immersion? Or have 3 different NPCs, in 3 different parts of the world, say the exact same line, in the exact same voice??
And companions....lifeless, dull puppets that follow you around and are just basically an extra sword / bow.
I love the game....but it feels so scripted, and artificial. it's more lifelike than Oblivion...but not much, really.
On the other hand, I've heard some great stuff out of SWTOR's npcs....and specific to that particular NPC. I don't hear mandalorians complaining about mudcrabs....errr....womprats. I hear them bragging, and joking, and talking about mandalorian stuff.
"you did not."
"I did."
"you saw a sand person without it's mask?? saw it's face and everything?"
"yep. couple of them jumped me out by the range. afterwards, I took the mask off one. got a good look."
"well what did he look like?"
"Dead."
Bioware seems to have put more effort into making their NPCs have individual personalities, instead of being the same NPC with a different face.
You think the virtual world of Skyrim is more static than SW:ToR? Please...do everyone a favor and just stop. You can only defend SW:ToR so much before you look foolish. NPC's in SW:ToR, 90% of the time are stagnate...never move. They never eat, they never sleep, they stand in the same spot no matter how much time in the game world has passed. MOB's in SW:ToR are the same. They have to be. It is the nature of the game. You have a bazillion people playing the game. Imagine if NPC's walked around constantly and or MOB's were not as dense or stagnate and stood in one place as they do...people would be throwing a hissy fit. They'd be pissed because then the game would not be the game it is...a themepark - it would be a sandbox virtual world sim(Skyrim does a really good job in this department and SW:ToR is not even in the same ballpark - let alone galaxy - when it comes to that). SW:ToR has no dynamic whether, no night or day cycles or mobs that roam, or mobs that actually do much of anything other than just stand in one place. Where on Hoth or Tatooine did you ever see a roaming mob? If you did, how far did it travel? Did it attack other mobs? Guess what - in Skyrim mobs roam, they hunt, they sleep, the appear as life like as possible given the tech that is used. To even suggest that SW:ToR comes close to that type of immessive virtual world is dilusional.
Second highlighted: If the shop is locked...just wait a few hours and it will open. If someone is using the forge...just try to use it and they instantly leave.
"Someone else is using that right now".
Go ahead....try it.
Yeah it says that once, and then THEY INSTANTLY LEAVE so you can do it a half a second later. Go ahead, try it. I got blacksmithing to 100...so I know.
If waiting a half a second is such an inconvenience then I really don't know what to say.
I have the PC version btw, I don't know if it's different for XBOX or PS3.
I have the PC version as well. I also have 2 characters with 100 smithing (my thief / assassin and my sword & board warrior). I end up having to "T" and wait for them to go to bed to use the forge and stuff...then "T" again until they wake up to buy materials from them.
Dunno...maybe I'm bugged or something, but if an NPC isusing something, the game will not let me use it until they are done...and they do take their sweet time about it.
Off topic...but I highly recommend the arrow crafting mod over at the Nexus. So nice to be able to make quivers full of Nord Hero arrows at the Skyforge.
Originally posted by Creslin321 Second highlighted: If the shop is locked...just wait a few hours and it will open. If someone is using the forge...just try to use it and they instantly leave.
"Someone else is using that right now".
Go ahead....try it.
Yeah it says that once, and then THEY INSTANTLY LEAVE so you can do it a half a second later. Go ahead, try it. I got blacksmithing to 100...so I know.
If waiting a half a second is such an inconvenience then I really don't know what to say.
I have the PC version btw, I don't know if it's different for XBOX or PS3.
I have the PC version as well. I also have 2 characters with 100 smithing (my thief / assassin and my sword & board warrior). I end up having to "T" and wait for them to go to bed to use the forge and stuff...then "T" again until they wake up to buy materials from them.
Dunno...maybe I'm bugged or something, but if an NPC isusing something, the game will not let me use it until they are done...and they do take their sweet time about it.
Off topic...but I highly recommend the arrow crafting mod over at the Nexus. So nice to be able to make quivers full of Nord Hero arrows at the Skyforge.
Yeah I'm not sure why they don't move for you, they always do for me. Could be a bug I guess. Thanks for the tip on the arrow mod .
You think the virtual world of Skyrim is more static than SW:ToR? Please...do everyone a favor and just stop. You can only defend SW:ToR so much before you look foolish. NPC's in SW:ToR, 90% of the time are stagnate...never move. They never eat, they never sleep, they stand in the same spot no matter how much time in the game world has passed. MOB's in SW:ToR are the same. They have to be. It is the nature of the game. You have a bazillion people playing the game. Imagine if NPC's walked around constantly and or MOB's were not as dense or stagnate and stood in one place as they do...people would be throwing a hissy fit. They'd be pissed because then the game would not be the game it is...a themepark - it would be a sandbox virtual world sim(Skyrim does a really good job in this department and SW:ToR is not even in the same ballpark - let alone galaxy - when it comes to that). SW:ToR has no dynamic whether, no night or day cycles or mobs that roam, or mobs that actually do much of anything other than just stand in one place. Where on Hoth or Tatooine did you ever see a roaming mob? If you did, how far did it travel? Did it attack other mobs? Guess what - in Skyrim mobs roam, they hunt, they sleep, the appear as life like as possible given the tech that is used. To even suggest that SW:ToR comes close to that type of immessive virtual world is dilusional.
I just want to correct one thing, in TOR there are NPCs that fight each other...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
There was another topic about this here but it got locked for whatever reason - so I'm bringing this one over. I think this is one of the biggest problems with SWTOR right now and it doesn't seem to be getting the attention it deserves. The simple fact that the world just FEELS lifeless and static. Let me give a few examples:
1. Cities and social hubs - Running through these feels like a library or graveyard, not a bustling hub of activity. Why? Because the npc's are so static - like statues. There is hardly any ambient npc chatter, conversation, or sound (I heard 1 random npc conversation in 2 weekends of testing), and most of them are just stuck in place. You also can't interact with any npc's, unless they are a questgiver, for a small sentence or two of conversation like in other mmo's or the KOTOR games. There are a few examples of npc's "doing something", but those are in the great minority and even many of those are static in their actions (jedi meditating for example).
I saw a lot of people that were "doing something" in the cities and social hubs. Things like dancing, talking to other NPC's, walking around, etc. I even went so far is to sit and listen in on some NPC conversations which was kind of neat. One thing I would like to see more of is the stray animals running around the cities. Maybe even a rat or two (other than the Empire Players that is).
2. Mobs - A very high percentage of mobs just stand in place also, including non-aggro mobs. There is very little scripting / pathing for mobs in this game.
I partially agree here. However, speaking from a military perspective (many years experience) you want your "troops" to actually man there posts, not walk around where ever they feel like. Still, it wouldn't hurt to add a few more patrols to liven things up and even some no-combat "message runners". Again add some animals to liven things up. Combative or no-combative really wouldn't make a difference, but having a cat get "spooked" when you get close would be nice.
3. Critters / world creatures - Where are they? It's something you don't even really notice till they aren't there, but this game is severely lacking in them. The few that are there are also just stuck in place like statues.
I would agree that they could add in more of these. Still, I saw birds flying around when I actually looked for them. Lots of animals too, but a little animation of them would be nice.
4. Music / sound effects - There are large amounts of time with no music, which I think should be increased. It could also help if there were added ambient sound effects in the game (birds chirping, bugs, npc chatter as discussed earlier, etc).
I have to disagree with this one. I heard a LOT of ambient sound effects and in all the right places. Everything from NPC conversations to speeder bikes zooming by to weapons fire. Also I found the rain and thunder to be especially "immersive". It might be nice to hear more of the vendors "hawking" their wares though. That was the one spot I found surprising, nobody trying to lure customers in.
All of this combined = a very static and lifeless world.
The argument that "this is how all mmo's are" doesn't work at all, as many AAA mmo's over the last 5-8 years have had great ambient atmosphere, npc acitivty, npc conversations, and lots of creatures running around.
Hopefully Bioware addresses this. The story, voice acting and cut scenes add a great deal of immersion, now if they can just get the rest of the game up to speed it would be awesome.
Your welcome to your opinion, but I can't help but wondering if we even played the same game. No, I am not judging you, but your experience seems to be a lot different than mine. I will admit this section of the game can be improved, but I can't help feeling the people making this complaint are LOOKING for something to complain about. Anyways, my answers are in RED above.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
After playing Skyrim every games world feels static.
Personally compared to WoW, Lotro, WAR and RIFT (My last 4 themeparks) TOR is no more static than the ones i listed.
This
I didn't see any difference from SWTOR as the rest of those listed. I think we would all like mmos to be more like Skyrim or The Witcher 2 in how alive the worlds are. But we haven't seen that yet.
We wont see a world like Skyrim in the mmorpg genre in quite a while.
The tech isnt there imo. Think about all the little things in skyrim that would just break down once you place thousands of people in the world. Everything the system has to keep track off. its too much.
I actually find Skyrim's (and all elder scrolls games) world to be rather....cardboard. It's just a facade. How many times can you walk past the same NPC and have them recite the exact same line before it just shatters the immersion? Or have 3 different NPCs, in 3 different parts of the world, say the exact same line, in the exact same voice??
And companions....lifeless, dull puppets that follow you around and are just basically an extra sword / bow.
I love the game....but it feels so scripted, and artificial. it's more lifelike than Oblivion...but not much, really.
On the other hand, I've heard some great stuff out of SWTOR's npcs....and specific to that particular NPC. I don't hear mandalorians complaining about mudcrabs....errr....womprats. I hear them bragging, and joking, and talking about mandalorian stuff.
"you did not."
"I did."
"you saw a sand person without it's mask?? saw it's face and everything?"
"yep. couple of them jumped me out by the range. afterwards, I took the mask off one. got a good look."
"well what did he look like?"
"Dead."
Bioware seems to have put more effort into making their NPCs have individual personalities, instead of being the same NPC with a different face.
You think the virtual world of Skyrim is more static than SW:ToR? Please...do everyone a favor and just stop. You can only defend SW:ToR so much before you look foolish. NPC's in SW:ToR, 90% of the time are stagnate...never move. They never eat, they never sleep, they stand in the same spot no matter how much time in the game world has passed. MOB's in SW:ToR are the same. They have to be. It is the nature of the game. You have a bazillion people playing the game. Imagine if NPC's walked around constantly and or MOB's were not as dense or stagnate and stood in one place as they do...people would be throwing a hissy fit. They'd be pissed because then the game would not be the game it is...a themepark - it would be a sandbox virtual world sim(Skyrim does a really good job in this department and SW:ToR is not even in the same ballpark - let alone galaxy - when it comes to that). SW:ToR has no dynamic whether, no night or day cycles or mobs that roam, or mobs that actually do much of anything other than just stand in one place. Where on Hoth or Tatooine did you ever see a roaming mob? If you did, how far did it travel? Did it attack other mobs? Guess what - in Skyrim mobs roam, they hunt, they sleep, the appear as life like as possible given the tech that is used. To even suggest that SW:ToR comes close to that type of immessive virtual world is dilusional.
Exactly. So people should STOP trying to say that SWTOR's world should be more like Skyrim's.
As soon as someone starts sayuing anything about Skyrim's world, people immediately admit that SWTOR's "bland, static world" is that way because it's an MMORPG, and that comparing an MMO world to a SPRPG's world is silly.
So why are they doing it then?
(by the way, I have seen mobs on Taris wandering and fighting each other, but's that's besides the point)
Exactly. So people should STOP trying to say that SWTOR's world should be more like Skyrim's.
As soon as someone starts sayuing anything about Skyrim's world, people immediately admit that SWTOR's "bland, static world" is that way because it's an MMORPG, and that comparing an MMO world to a SPRPG's world is silly.
So why are they doing it then?
(by the way, I have seen mobs on Taris wandering and fighting each other, but's that's besides the point)
Problem is if you say that, then you're just making up excuses for lazy devs...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Exactly. So people should STOP trying to say that SWTOR's world should be more like Skyrim's.
As soon as someone starts sayuing anything about Skyrim's world, people immediately admit that SWTOR's "bland, static world" is that way because it's an MMORPG, and that comparing an MMO world to a SPRPG's world is silly.
So why are they doing it then?
(by the way, I have seen mobs on Taris wandering and fighting each other, but's that's besides the point)
Problem is if you say that, then you're just making up excuses for lazy devs...
Did YOU ever chase Degeerin around the village in SWG?? There's a really good reason that quest mobs are static.
There was like 4 of us in my guild trying to catch him one day to turn in. The cursing on vent was hilarious.
After playing Skyrim every games world feels static.
Personally compared to WoW, Lotro, WAR and RIFT (My last 4 themeparks) TOR is no more static than the ones i listed.
This
I didn't see any difference from SWTOR as the rest of those listed. I think we would all like mmos to be more like Skyrim or The Witcher 2 in how alive the worlds are. But we haven't seen that yet.
We wont see a world like Skyrim in the mmorpg genre in quite a while.
The tech isnt there imo. Think about all the little things in skyrim that would just break down once you place thousands of people in the world. Everything the system has to keep track off. its too much.
I actually find Skyrim's (and all elder scrolls games) world to be rather....cardboard. It's just a facade. How many times can you walk past the same NPC and have them recite the exact same line before it just shatters the immersion? Or have 3 different NPCs, in 3 different parts of the world, say the exact same line, in the exact same voice??
And companions....lifeless, dull puppets that follow you around and are just basically an extra sword / bow.
I love the game....but it feels so scripted, and artificial. it's more lifelike than Oblivion...but not much, really.
On the other hand, I've heard some great stuff out of SWTOR's npcs....and specific to that particular NPC. I don't hear mandalorians complaining about mudcrabs....errr....womprats. I hear them bragging, and joking, and talking about mandalorian stuff.
"you did not."
"I did."
"you saw a sand person without it's mask?? saw it's face and everything?"
"yep. couple of them jumped me out by the range. afterwards, I took the mask off one. got a good look."
"well what did he look like?"
"Dead."
Bioware seems to have put more effort into making their NPCs have individual personalities, instead of being the same NPC with a different face.
You think the virtual world of Skyrim is more static than SW:ToR? Please...do everyone a favor and just stop. You can only defend SW:ToR so much before you look foolish. NPC's in SW:ToR, 90% of the time are stagnate...never move. They never eat, they never sleep, they stand in the same spot no matter how much time in the game world has passed. MOB's in SW:ToR are the same. They have to be. It is the nature of the game. You have a bazillion people playing the game. Imagine if NPC's walked around constantly and or MOB's were not as dense or stagnate and stood in one place as they do...people would be throwing a hissy fit. They'd be pissed because then the game would not be the game it is...a themepark - it would be a sandbox virtual world sim(Skyrim does a really good job in this department and SW:ToR is not even in the same ballpark - let alone galaxy - when it comes to that). SW:ToR has no dynamic whether, no night or day cycles or mobs that roam, or mobs that actually do much of anything other than just stand in one place. Where on Hoth or Tatooine did you ever see a roaming mob? If you did, how far did it travel? Did it attack other mobs? Guess what - in Skyrim mobs roam, they hunt, they sleep, the appear as life like as possible given the tech that is used. To even suggest that SW:ToR comes close to that type of immessive virtual world is dilusional.
Exactly. So people should STOP trying to say that SWTOR's world should be more like Skyrim's.
As soon as someone starts sayuing anything about Skyrim's world, people immediately admit that SWTOR's "bland, static world" is that way because it's an MMORPG, and that comparing an MMO world to a SPRPG's world is silly.
So why are they doing it then?
(by the way, I have seen mobs on Taris wandering and fighting each other, but's that's besides the point)
It's not because it is an MMORPG, it's because it is a an MMO/themepark. I never said you couldn't make a more immersive world like Skyrim's, I said SW:ToR is a themepark and that is the nature of a themepark. Big difference.
There was another topic about this here but it got locked for whatever reason - so I'm bringing this one over. I think this is one of the biggest problems with SWTOR right now and it doesn't seem to be getting the attention it deserves. The simple fact that the world just FEELS lifeless and static. Let me give a few examples:
1. Cities and social hubs - Running through these feels like a library or graveyard, not a bustling hub of activity. Why? Because the npc's are so static - like statues. There is hardly any ambient npc chatter, conversation, or sound (I heard 1 random npc conversation in 2 weekends of testing), and most of them are just stuck in place. You also can't interact with any npc's, unless they are a questgiver, for a small sentence or two of conversation like in other mmo's or the KOTOR games. There are a few examples of npc's "doing something", but those are in the great minority and even many of those are static in their actions (jedi meditating for example).
2. Mobs - A very high percentage of mobs just stand in place also, including non-aggro mobs. There is very little scripting / pathing for mobs in this game.
3. Critters / world creatures - Where are they? It's something you don't even really notice till they aren't there, but this game is severely lacking in them. The few that are there are also just stuck in place like statues.
4. Music / sound effects - There are large amounts of time with no music, which I think should be increased. It could also help if there were added ambient sound effects in the game (birds chirping, bugs, npc chatter as discussed earlier, etc).
All of this combined = a very static and lifeless world.
The argument that "this is how all mmo's are" doesn't work at all, as many AAA mmo's over the last 5-8 years have had great ambient atmosphere, npc acitivty, npc conversations, and lots of creatures running around.
Hopefully Bioware addresses this. The story, voice acting and cut scenes add a great deal of immersion, now if they can just get the rest of the game up to speed it would be awesome.
1. Huh? There is a plethora of npc's chatting, with conversation, and tons of sound effects and ambience... Interesting you should point that out. I agree they do not move, that is definitely not my cup of tea, I prefer Skyrim style sandbox, AI, and make no mistake ANY MMO today can accomplish this. Definitely agree the NPCs do not walk around or do anything. I do not accept excuses for this common ailment of theme-park style MMOs.
2. Agreed, they do not move around, another issue I have with theme-park style MMOs, however, historically Bioware single player games have been linear.
3. Agreed, this game is not Skyrim with fish jumping up river, or wandering deer, elk, honestly Guild Wars 2 will have this concept.
4. Hrm, the kind of ambience I would hope for is Ultima Online style ambient cat meowing, dogs barking. I agree, not much in the way of this either.
I agree with your argument rebuttle, this is unfortunately how they do theme-park style games. They will not address it as this is the 'way' they built the game, it's as done as they want it.
I will support your statement about triple AAA games lasting 5-8 years, Ultima Online, despite the ignorant, is still a full pay to play MMO after 12 years. Tough to beat that record. It is old however.
I will also state that in support of Star Wars, I very much enjoyed the story and voice acting, I felt it was quite well done.
Sadly, people will believe that you cannot compare an Online game to a single player RPG. I disagree, there are features that most certainly could be included and concepts that can be duplicated in an online game. It has been proven before and forgotten. The style of Star Wars is not my cup of tea, but I enjoyed the story-lines and thus will play for that alone until they are finished. Sadly, like all theme-park style games the end content will probably be where the game begins after its first expansion, but based on what I played it feels like the game really takes off around 15th level or roughly the time you get your ship.
It's not because it is an MMORPG, it's because it is a an MMO/themepark. I never said you couldn't make a more immersive world like Skyrim's, I said SW:ToR is a themepark and that is the nature of a themepark. Big difference.
Ah, so if Bioware re-designed the entire game to be a sandbox, THEN we could have this Skyrim-like world, and it would be OK??
Chasing after quest mobs would be less annoying then??
Somehow, I don't think so. And neither does Degeerin.
Exactly. So people should STOP trying to say that SWTOR's world should be more like Skyrim's.
As soon as someone starts sayuing anything about Skyrim's world, people immediately admit that SWTOR's "bland, static world" is that way because it's an MMORPG, and that comparing an MMO world to a SPRPG's world is silly.
So why are they doing it then?
(by the way, I have seen mobs on Taris wandering and fighting each other, but's that's besides the point)
Problem is if you say that, then you're just making up excuses for lazy devs...
Did YOU ever chase Degeerin around the village in SWG?? There's a really good reason that quest mobs are static.
There was like 4 of us in my guild trying to catch him one day to turn in. The cursing on vent was hilarious.
Yep, it was utterly annoying, just like BH targets spawning within trees, or structures, lol, god was that annoying. Travel for an hour to find your target bugged and unattackable.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
After playing Skyrim every games world feels static.
Personally compared to WoW, Lotro, WAR and RIFT (My last 4 themeparks) TOR is no more static than the ones i listed.
This
I didn't see any difference from SWTOR as the rest of those listed. I think we would all like mmos to be more like Skyrim or The Witcher 2 in how alive the worlds are. But we haven't seen that yet.
We wont see a world like Skyrim in the mmorpg genre in quite a while.
The tech isnt there imo. Think about all the little things in skyrim that would just break down once you place thousands of people in the world. Everything the system has to keep track off. its too much.
I actually find Skyrim's (and all elder scrolls games) world to be rather....cardboard. It's just a facade. How many times can you walk past the same NPC and have them recite the exact same line before it just shatters the immersion? Or have 3 different NPCs, in 3 different parts of the world, say the exact same line, in the exact same voice??
And companions....lifeless, dull puppets that follow you around and are just basically an extra sword / bow.
I love the game....but it feels so scripted, and artificial. it's more lifelike than Oblivion...but not much, really.
On the other hand, I've heard some great stuff out of SWTOR's npcs....and specific to that particular NPC. I don't hear mandalorians complaining about mudcrabs....errr....womprats. I hear them bragging, and joking, and talking about mandalorian stuff.
"you did not."
"I did."
"you saw a sand person without it's mask?? saw it's face and everything?"
"yep. couple of them jumped me out by the range. afterwards, I took the mask off one. got a good look."
"well what did he look like?"
"Dead."
Bioware seems to have put more effort into making their NPCs have individual personalities, instead of being the same NPC with a different face.
You think the virtual world of Skyrim is more static than SW:ToR? Please...do everyone a favor and just stop. You can only defend SW:ToR so much before you look foolish. NPC's in SW:ToR, 90% of the time are stagnate...never move. They never eat, they never sleep, they stand in the same spot no matter how much time in the game world has passed. MOB's in SW:ToR are the same. They have to be. It is the nature of the game. You have a bazillion people playing the game. Imagine if NPC's walked around constantly and or MOB's were not as dense or stagnate and stood in one place as they do...people would be throwing a hissy fit. They'd be pissed because then the game would not be the game it is...a themepark - it would be a sandbox virtual world sim(Skyrim does a really good job in this department and SW:ToR is not even in the same ballpark - let alone galaxy - when it comes to that). SW:ToR has no dynamic whether, no night or day cycles or mobs that roam, or mobs that actually do much of anything other than just stand in one place. Where on Hoth or Tatooine did you ever see a roaming mob? If you did, how far did it travel? Did it attack other mobs? Guess what - in Skyrim mobs roam, they hunt, they sleep, the appear as life like as possible given the tech that is used. To even suggest that SW:ToR comes close to that type of immessive virtual world is dilusional.
Exactly. So people should STOP trying to say that SWTOR's world should be more like Skyrim's.
As soon as someone starts sayuing anything about Skyrim's world, people immediately admit that SWTOR's "bland, static world" is that way because it's an MMORPG, and that comparing an MMO world to a SPRPG's world is silly.
So why are they doing it then?
(by the way, I have seen mobs on Taris wandering and fighting each other, but's that's besides the point)
I would argue that SWTOR is not an MMORPG and is simply an online game, there has not been an MMORPG in a very long time. Degenerative Online Game Making Syndrome (DOGMS).
If someone hasn't already mentioned it, you should check out Guild Wars 2. It addresses these complaints and others. It is designed to feel like a world, not a game.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
If someone hasn't already mentioned it, you should check out Guild Wars 2. It addresses these complaints and others. It is designed to feel like a world, not a game.
It's not because it is an MMORPG, it's because it is a an MMO/themepark. I never said you couldn't make a more immersive world like Skyrim's, I said SW:ToR is a themepark and that is the nature of a themepark. Big difference.
Sorry, there will be no MMO like Skyrim in the near to mid-term future, sandbox or otherwise, the tech just isn't there. It's hard enough to pull off in a SPG, the server would have to track all that movement and NPC scheduling, it's just too much to expect from a TP or SB MMO. The closest you'll get is Ryzom which even there NPCs are basically lifeless, bringing thousands of people together is supposed to make up for that..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Skyrim is the single most overrated game in the history of RPGs. Go ahead, flame on.
People need to stop whining about what they think is wrong with SWTOR or GW2 or any other game they don't like. It gets to a point where the arguement has been made and all you are doing is wasting people's time. You think it's static and lifeless? Don't play it then. We don't need to read about how you wish it was a different game, or your ridiculous predictions of it's future.
People need to accept that games are what they are, and stop going on little tirades complaining that they are not the games they wish they were. Is is what it is - not what you want it to be, and no amount of complaining will change that. Take it or leave it.
After reading this walls of text and played the last BETA, I have to say I am rather disappointed about this game. PVP-wise, it is not the best compare to other old MMO, like Aion, DAOC, WAR, Ultima and AIKA (F2P though). And for PVE-wise, for those that like to raid instances, this game not up to scratch compare to WOW which again another OLD MMO.
And certainly not playing this game because it has massive investment for cut scenes, quests with coversation, and storyline in every quest. The mobs are dead-like and half challenging, even mini-bosses. Mini instances are dry, not challenging enough, soloable or 2 manned where a full group of 4 memebers is required. NPC are plenty but offer nothing but confusions.
I feel like watching a movie and in some instances reading a book (storyline) from a movie. FFS it is a game not a movie or story. Most of the time that I spent on is actually smashing SPACEBAR then select options of the quest to get past the storyline where I can just simply get the quest then heading out to grind.
I only got to level 16 during the last BETA so for those that like to challenge my opinion about this game are more than welcome. First impression SALE but sadly this game failed badly.
Comments
"Someone else is using that right now".
Go ahead....try it.
Yeah it says that once, and then THEY INSTANTLY LEAVE so you can do it a half a second later. Go ahead, try it. I got blacksmithing to 100...so I know.
If waiting a half a second is such an inconvenience then I really don't know what to say.
I have the PC version btw, I don't know if it's different for XBOX or PS3.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Unless I'm mistaken, you compared SWTOR to Skyrim and then argued that people should not compare SWTOR to Skyrim.
If this is some kind of satire...then I'm not really getting it
.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
just compare the numbers of NPC's in Skyrim to the number of NPC's in SWTOR, in Skyrim i almost know all NPC's individually and by name. This makes you understqnd why all NPC's in Skyrim are fleshed out individually and why TOR has choosen for the more typical NPC we know from all other games, concentrating to flesh out the keyplayers in your stories.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
You think the virtual world of Skyrim is more static than SW:ToR? Please...do everyone a favor and just stop. You can only defend SW:ToR so much before you look foolish. NPC's in SW:ToR, 90% of the time are stagnate...never move. They never eat, they never sleep, they stand in the same spot no matter how much time in the game world has passed. MOB's in SW:ToR are the same. They have to be. It is the nature of the game. You have a bazillion people playing the game. Imagine if NPC's walked around constantly and or MOB's were not as dense or stagnate and stood in one place as they do...people would be throwing a hissy fit. They'd be pissed because then the game would not be the game it is...a themepark - it would be a sandbox virtual world sim(Skyrim does a really good job in this department and SW:ToR is not even in the same ballpark - let alone galaxy - when it comes to that). SW:ToR has no dynamic whether, no night or day cycles or mobs that roam, or mobs that actually do much of anything other than just stand in one place. Where on Hoth or Tatooine did you ever see a roaming mob? If you did, how far did it travel? Did it attack other mobs? Guess what - in Skyrim mobs roam, they hunt, they sleep, the appear as life like as possible given the tech that is used. To even suggest that SW:ToR comes close to that type of immessive virtual world is dilusional.
I have the PC version as well. I also have 2 characters with 100 smithing (my thief / assassin and my sword & board warrior). I end up having to "T" and wait for them to go to bed to use the forge and stuff...then "T" again until they wake up to buy materials from them.
Dunno...maybe I'm bugged or something, but if an NPC isusing something, the game will not let me use it until they are done...and they do take their sweet time about it.
Off topic...but I highly recommend the arrow crafting mod over at the Nexus. So nice to be able to make quivers full of Nord Hero arrows at the Skyforge.
"Someone else is using that right now".
Go ahead....try it.
Yeah it says that once, and then THEY INSTANTLY LEAVE so you can do it a half a second later. Go ahead, try it. I got blacksmithing to 100...so I know.
If waiting a half a second is such an inconvenience then I really don't know what to say.
I have the PC version btw, I don't know if it's different for XBOX or PS3.
I have the PC version as well. I also have 2 characters with 100 smithing (my thief / assassin and my sword & board warrior). I end up having to "T" and wait for them to go to bed to use the forge and stuff...then "T" again until they wake up to buy materials from them.
Dunno...maybe I'm bugged or something, but if an NPC isusing something, the game will not let me use it until they are done...and they do take their sweet time about it.
Off topic...but I highly recommend the arrow crafting mod over at the Nexus. So nice to be able to make quivers full of Nord Hero arrows at the Skyforge.
Yeah I'm not sure why they don't move for you, they always do for me. Could be a bug I guess. Thanks for the tip on the arrow modAre you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I just want to correct one thing, in TOR there are NPCs that fight each other...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Your welcome to your opinion, but I can't help but wondering if we even played the same game. No, I am not judging you, but your experience seems to be a lot different than mine. I will admit this section of the game can be improved, but I can't help feeling the people making this complaint are LOOKING for something to complain about. Anyways, my answers are in RED above.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Exactly. So people should STOP trying to say that SWTOR's world should be more like Skyrim's.
As soon as someone starts sayuing anything about Skyrim's world, people immediately admit that SWTOR's "bland, static world" is that way because it's an MMORPG, and that comparing an MMO world to a SPRPG's world is silly.
So why are they doing it then?
(by the way, I have seen mobs on Taris wandering and fighting each other, but's that's besides the point)
Problem is if you say that, then you're just making up excuses for lazy devs...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Did YOU ever chase Degeerin around the village in SWG?? There's a really good reason that quest mobs are static.
There was like 4 of us in my guild trying to catch him one day to turn in. The cursing on vent was hilarious.
It's not because it is an MMORPG, it's because it is a an MMO/themepark. I never said you couldn't make a more immersive world like Skyrim's, I said SW:ToR is a themepark and that is the nature of a themepark. Big difference.
1. Huh? There is a plethora of npc's chatting, with conversation, and tons of sound effects and ambience... Interesting you should point that out. I agree they do not move, that is definitely not my cup of tea, I prefer Skyrim style sandbox, AI, and make no mistake ANY MMO today can accomplish this. Definitely agree the NPCs do not walk around or do anything. I do not accept excuses for this common ailment of theme-park style MMOs.
2. Agreed, they do not move around, another issue I have with theme-park style MMOs, however, historically Bioware single player games have been linear.
3. Agreed, this game is not Skyrim with fish jumping up river, or wandering deer, elk, honestly Guild Wars 2 will have this concept.
4. Hrm, the kind of ambience I would hope for is Ultima Online style ambient cat meowing, dogs barking. I agree, not much in the way of this either.
I agree with your argument rebuttle, this is unfortunately how they do theme-park style games. They will not address it as this is the 'way' they built the game, it's as done as they want it.
I will support your statement about triple AAA games lasting 5-8 years, Ultima Online, despite the ignorant, is still a full pay to play MMO after 12 years. Tough to beat that record. It is old however.
I will also state that in support of Star Wars, I very much enjoyed the story and voice acting, I felt it was quite well done.
Sadly, people will believe that you cannot compare an Online game to a single player RPG. I disagree, there are features that most certainly could be included and concepts that can be duplicated in an online game. It has been proven before and forgotten. The style of Star Wars is not my cup of tea, but I enjoyed the story-lines and thus will play for that alone until they are finished. Sadly, like all theme-park style games the end content will probably be where the game begins after its first expansion, but based on what I played it feels like the game really takes off around 15th level or roughly the time you get your ship.
Anyway, interesting post.
Ah, so if Bioware re-designed the entire game to be a sandbox, THEN we could have this Skyrim-like world, and it would be OK??
Chasing after quest mobs would be less annoying then??
Somehow, I don't think so. And neither does Degeerin.
Yep, it was utterly annoying, just like BH targets spawning within trees, or structures, lol, god was that annoying. Travel for an hour to find your target bugged and unattackable.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I would argue that SWTOR is not an MMORPG and is simply an online game, there has not been an MMORPG in a very long time. Degenerative Online Game Making Syndrome (DOGMS).
If someone hasn't already mentioned it, you should check out Guild Wars 2. It addresses these complaints and others. It is designed to feel like a world, not a game.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
Ready for it????
Here it comes.....
your agenda is showing.
Wow you guys will complain about everything.
If there was a perfect MMO I'm pretty sure you guys would complain it wasn't free and didn't come with a girlfriend.
Sorry, there will be no MMO like Skyrim in the near to mid-term future, sandbox or otherwise, the tech just isn't there. It's hard enough to pull off in a SPG, the server would have to track all that movement and NPC scheduling, it's just too much to expect from a TP or SB MMO. The closest you'll get is Ryzom which even there NPCs are basically lifeless, bringing thousands of people together is supposed to make up for that..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Skyrim is the single most overrated game in the history of RPGs. Go ahead, flame on.
People need to stop whining about what they think is wrong with SWTOR or GW2 or any other game they don't like. It gets to a point where the arguement has been made and all you are doing is wasting people's time. You think it's static and lifeless? Don't play it then. We don't need to read about how you wish it was a different game, or your ridiculous predictions of it's future.
People need to accept that games are what they are, and stop going on little tirades complaining that they are not the games they wish they were. Is is what it is - not what you want it to be, and no amount of complaining will change that. Take it or leave it.
Bioware is incapable of making an immersive world.
They never have and they never will.
That said, this (SW:TOR) is their worst yet.
After reading this walls of text and played the last BETA, I have to say I am rather disappointed about this game. PVP-wise, it is not the best compare to other old MMO, like Aion, DAOC, WAR, Ultima and AIKA (F2P though). And for PVE-wise, for those that like to raid instances, this game not up to scratch compare to WOW which again another OLD MMO.
And certainly not playing this game because it has massive investment for cut scenes, quests with coversation, and storyline in every quest. The mobs are dead-like and half challenging, even mini-bosses. Mini instances are dry, not challenging enough, soloable or 2 manned where a full group of 4 memebers is required. NPC are plenty but offer nothing but confusions.
I feel like watching a movie and in some instances reading a book (storyline) from a movie. FFS it is a game not a movie or story. Most of the time that I spent on is actually smashing SPACEBAR then select options of the quest to get past the storyline where I can just simply get the quest then heading out to grind.
I only got to level 16 during the last BETA so for those that like to challenge my opinion about this game are more than welcome. First impression SALE but sadly this game failed badly.
Hope they consider SWTOR for F2P
Opinion stated as fact.
Personally I found the first KOTOR very immersive. And despite the sorta stiff world find SWTOR pretty immersive as well. Only my opinion.
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