Skyrim is the single most overrated game in the history of RPGs. Go ahead, flame on.
People need to stop whining about what they think is wrong with SWTOR or GW2 or any other game they don't like.
Do you see the contradiction you just made.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
If someone hasn't already mentioned it, you should check out Guild Wars 2. It addresses these complaints and others. It is designed to feel like a world, not a game.
No just no... There's still the guy standing around with a symbol over his head waiting to hand out his objectives. MOBS who participate in DE's are still on a projected trajectory going only to where they are meant to be. WHich the end result will look just like NPC warzones in any other MMO where you're messing with this object or that one, while a scripted battle goes on around you. The only difference is you're not lead to that place at the time it's happening. You only see it if you're in the right place at the right time.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I agree that this game's super static, it feels like a damn museum. But, as it was mentionned before, the fact that most of the zones are like 75% scenery and 25% exploration is a bigger concern for me.
That's the biggest SW:TOR flaw to me (besides crappy graphics imo) it forces you so much to do what bioware designed that it feels more like a co-op single player game than an actual MMO. I mean, there's like no MMORPG that is that linear, where u have like no choice about where to go and what to do as u need to follow ur story, u can't just hop in a heaps of zones of the same level that break the monotony. Here u got ur story and u better follow it, it got twists and turns sometimes, but u don't choose them.
A little more liberty would be nice, it would greatly enhance TOR's experience. And since Skyrim released, people are way more aware of what freedom in a game means (while Skyrim's like 2000x smaller than Arena and doesn't have randomly generated dungeons n all, that first TES was the best).
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OP here - my original post was never about SWTOR compared to Skyrim or any other single player RPG - some of the commenters pulled the thread in that direction which wasn't the goal. SWTOR is an MMO and shouldn't be compared with single player games or their types of features. This is simply about SWTOR as it is, and if compared to anything, other mmo's over the last 5-7 years
Another thing - I'm not here to bash TOR - I'm simply bringing up an issue I see with the game. I liked a lot of things about the game, I'm very much looking forward to playing the game, but this is something that I really noticed more and more as I played and feel it needs improvement.
I've seen a few comments that TOR is no different than any other mmo in this regard of immersive / living world. I highly disagree. I've spent a lot of time in LOTRO, Vanguard, EQ2, AOC, a week of RIFT, and a few months of WOW ss far as AAA mmo's go. Every one of those games you could interact with pretty much every single NPC for some small conversation, while in SWTOR you cannot interact with any npc unless they are a questgiver or mercant. While every mmo has their "statue" npc's, TOR seems to have way more than most - and perhaps that feeling is amplified by the fact that you cannot interact with them at all for a chat bubble of conversation or short voice acted tidbit of info. There were many more world creatures in those games, which TOR has very litte of, and most of which are just stuck in place. Which brings me to the next thing - I've never seen so many mobs just camped in one spot - there are very few patrols or mobs that are given pathing in TOR, which is the same for NPC's. It's also VERY quiet in areas that should be bustling with activity (The Jedi Temple, Coruscant, Senate Tower, etc etc). All of this combined is what led to the lifeless and static feel for me. There are exceptions of course, but my hope is that they make the exceptions the norm and not an exception.
I like SWTOR - I want it to do well and I look forward to playing - but this is something I really hope they don't just overlook.
Originally posted by Dubhlaith If someone hasn't already mentioned it, you should check out Guild Wars 2. It addresses these complaints and others. It is designed to feel like a world, not a game.
Ready for it???? Here it comes..... your agenda is showing.
So's yours.
I'm not trying to hide my bias.
It doesn't mean I'm not right. I played TOR, and it was bland and generic and I felt like I'd been there many times before. The world was static and felt like nothing happened, like what I did didn't matter. If I feel that way when I play GW2, I will be just as annoyed, and just as vocal about my disapproval.
I doubt that will happen.
Bioware even admitted they are ten years behind the current leader in immersive worlds. They know they can't build a living world, so they build a good story instead. I just don't like that I don't feel as if I have any control over said story. A couple of options that don't really matter and that I can't tell what will happen beforehand do not make for a roleplaying experience, at least to me. But they know they can't make a living world. They have said so themselves. So this whole static world thing isn't news.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
TOR = KOTOR mixed with SWG without the tons of bugs.
It is fun. It is addicting. There is a ton of content.. It is polished, and runs mint on my PC. I can't wait to jump in game with all my old SWG guildies.
Tons of negative feedback Im reading, alot of which is personal opinion. Games arnt made to cater to everyone, I think some people really like to push there opinions, its the nature of the beast though.
I Was to busy playing my Imperial agent to level 20 in the few days that was given to us to notice any flaws. Everything I did flowed smooth as butter.
Also the game is huge, there is 16 planets for christ sakes. The people saying the graphics is bad are seriously out of line. We dont want to have a 50 gigabye game to download here cause of textures. Bioware made us thousands of quests that all imerse each character in there own little story, it looked really well done to me and to be honest was like a fine wine, the art style has its own flavor and to me almost like a cult art style. I keep thinking of all the over head shots as my character listened to NPCs and the background fiting into the conversation, it was amazing.
Untill there is a game that compleatly redefines gaming as we know it on a massive online role playing scale, everything is always going to be shit to everyone and every little thing people dont like will lead to massive threads about how the game sux and should be taken off life support. SWTOR isnt groundbreaking in this aspect, its merily a crossroad, a crossroad to new begingings, either accept it and enjoy it or not.
For me the game just didnt have anything about it. Now I do love Star wars, and hell I even love the new star wars animation movies they have done. I really think George Lucas has brought Star wars to a whole new egenration with thier excellent droid wars movies,story and,animation is absolutley brilliant in those movies.
But this game from Bioware just felt souless sorry to say. Other than Voiceovers what does it actually have? I played for the first day, then had absoloutely on inclination to login again. It had nothing to make me want to play again, other than read the mindless chat in general. I really expected a whole lot more, from a game that has been years in the pipeline, and has had the biggest budget EA has ever spent on a game. I can only imagine the numbe rof people left feeling this way, while it may do well initially in no way do i expect this to be the so called wow killer everyone keeps mentiniong about for a near decade now.
The i-word cannot be killed often and hard enough.
More realism does NOT make games better.
Otherwise everyone would play Sims and never anything else (well OK if you check it out Sims is grossly unrealistic as well, but as a general idea its the most "realistic" game out there).
Extremely mixed opinion from all the threads since the weekend beta overall, all to be expected. Slightly biased on the negative but, just like when boobs are inadvertantly flashed on tv, people who are 'offended and outraged' tend to complain more than people who like it will send in letters declaring their happiness at seeing boobs on tv.
I think the overall jist is that if you've played 'wow et al./kill-collect/raid-instance' to death for the last 6 years you are not going to enjoy this game. It's a big budget project whose development began when wow et al. games were at their peak popularity and, understandably, they decided they'd be fools not to learn something from that trend.
Wow-format-jaded players are clearly NOT the target audience and lack of their subs is not going to ruin the game one bit. Plenty more non-wow-format-jaded players will fill their places. I myself am within the statistic of people who played these kinds of games to death and I would love to have seen them take more risk to do something to exactly satisfy the needs of my cohort. Again, I just don't think we're the target audience. But, I won't begrudge people who do like the game their enjoyment. It is a well crafted game besides the fairly trivial issues of lifeless worlds and lack of depth - nothing different was guaranteed nor necessary to make it fun or a success. Imo, utterly familar in most regards though it is, it's at least probably worth a playthrough on one character for the main storyline which I found did give a decent smokescreen to the standard action button bash bash.
Originally posted by Adamantine The i-word cannot be killed often and hard enough. More realism does NOT make games better. Otherwise everyone would play Sims and never anything else (well OK if you check it out Sims is grossly unrealistic as well, but as a general idea its the most "realistic" game out there).
You are totally missing the point of immersion. It is not realism in the sense of being like the real world. It is realism in the sense of both making sense in the setting and feeling like an actual world a place with people moving about and doing their own thing instead of standing stock still and waiting for you to show up. That's not realistic. Totally different. Does that make sense?
And for that matter, if your life is anything like the Sims, you need serious help ASAP.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Let's leave Skyrim out of the discussion and talk about something much closer to SWTOR that (IMO) has a much more immersive world...WoW.
First, the social hubs in WoW are so much more immersive than the ones in SWTOR. Children run through the streets, NPCs walk around, the architecture and art is unique and usually feels like an actual city. In SWTOR they are just vast expanses of nothing with vendors clearly marked on your map.
Second, WoW's world is much more "open" than SWTOR's. With the exception of swimming across the ocean, you can "go" almost anywhere in WoW's world. This makes the world feel so much more real, because you can almost always explore anything you see. SWTOR is so closed and guided compared to WoW. If you wander to far out of a zone you are insta-killed, there are red walls in places that you can't pass through, and every planet is only accessible by fast-traveling through space.
You can argue all you want that SWTOR can never be Skyrim because it's a themepark MMORPG...but what arguments can you levy against WoW? WoW is EXTREMELY close to SWTOR in design...I really see no reason why SWTOR couldn't at least be as immersive as WoW.
If you can't immerse yourself in a world with thousands of living breathing players around you... Avoid table top RPGs or board games like hero quest...
Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.
After playing Skyrim every games world feels static.
Personally compared to WoW, Lotro, WAR and RIFT (My last 4 themeparks) TOR is no more static than the ones i listed.
This
I didn't see any difference from SWTOR as the rest of those listed. I think we would all like mmos to be more like Skyrim or The Witcher 2 in how alive the worlds are. But we haven't seen that yet.
We wont see a world like Skyrim in the mmorpg genre in quite a while.
The tech isnt there imo. Think about all the little things in skyrim that would just break down once you place thousands of people in the world. Everything the system has to keep track off. its too much.
This whole bit.
Besides, when you're running around the city like a crazy person, sometimes you don't catch certain things.
In Dromund Kaas, there's an area where you see a bunch of suspicious types mulling around some kind of car sized chunk of tech, with one working on it. At one point, the thing erupts into sparks and blows up, and a gunfight between them and some Imperial troops ensues.
I bet most of you saying "TOR is static" never saw that bit. It's not too far off the beaten path. So why didn't you catch it?
There's also the suspicious shopkeeper outside the starport on Tatooinne. If you just go running by, you'll just assume he's "another static mob". "TOR is static" folks... do you know what happens?
Now, these sorts of things aren't everywhere, and they, too, cycle over and over. But I think there's enough of them to where it's not fair to say that "they all just stand there".
I would love to see stuff like in Max Payne, where you run by a guy painting a wall and whistling... if you stop and listen he goes on and on like that for 2-3 minutes... but then I wonder how many people who played had any idea that that was the case?
I agree completely. The lack of dynamics in npc's, landscape and creatures makes the whole world look like a cardboard cutout on a stage. Combined with the lackluster models, the lack of character diversity both in players and npc's and the purely hotkey driven combat... I am very worried about the game's potential. There is simply no justification for the state the game is in right now, three weeks before launch.
The story may be alright, but it does not make up for the completely unimmersive gaming experience. SWTOR just isn't up to Bioware standards.
Bioware ain't bioware anymore, enjoy Mass Effect 3 and put them to rest. That's what I'm going to do anyways.
I personally don’t really care about npcs in games and I play mmorpgs to interact with other people. I will be rolling on a rppvp server and will judge how alive the game feels from the player generated content.
I remember when I first started playing rift and got to a starting town and saw one of their “dynamic events” and I thought it was the coolest thing ever but that feeling started to fade away the more I played because npcs can only go so far in making the world feel alive.
I wonder if there quality imbalance between factions. I see a lot complains from players who was on Republic side, while players from Empire side was very happy.
If man consider DA 1+2, ME etc,isn't it first time Bioware making multiple factions? Just thinking if it maybe they made by different teams, or priority didn't reach Republic side yet and a lot of stuff on "to do" list.
"Don't argue with dick-heads, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience"
I wonder if there quality imbalance between factions. I see a lot complains from players who was on Republic side, while players from Empire side was very happy.
If man consider DA 1+2, ME etc,isn't it first time Bioware making multiple factions? Just thinking if it maybe they made by different teams, or priority didn't reach Republic side yet and a lot of stuff on "to do" list.
The stories on Empire are much better. The republic side ranges from boring (jedi) to cheesy as hell with childish and not funny one liners (smuggler). Being so focused on story this will pose and issue I think with folks playing one side much heavier.
P.S> Yes yes I know there are some who enjoy the republic stories but I ran into more fulks who were going republic that decided to switch sides than the other way around.
Only on PvP realms is there a major imbalance.
PvE and RP realms are actually republic dominated. And with all the major world PvP happening in hot spots like Illium I have no problem rolling to a PvE server.
Besides, when you're running around the city like a crazy person, sometimes you don't catch certain things.
In Dromund Kaas, there's an area where you see a bunch of suspicious types mulling around some kind of car sized chunk of tech, with one working on it. At one point, the thing erupts into sparks and blows up, and a gunfight between them and some Imperial troops ensues.
I bet most of you saying "TOR is static" never saw that bit. It's not too far off the beaten path. So why didn't you catch it?
There's also the suspicious shopkeeper outside the starport on Tatooinne. If you just go running by, you'll just assume he's "another static mob". "TOR is static" folks... do you know what happens?
Now, these sorts of things aren't everywhere, and they, too, cycle over and over. But I think there's enough of them to where it's not fair to say that "they all just stand there".
I would love to see stuff like in Max Payne, where you run by a guy painting a wall and whistling... if you stop and listen he goes on and on like that for 2-3 minutes... but then I wonder how many people who played had any idea that that was the case?
There are lots of npcs who do more than stand around. I agree though that there could be more activity. Even if they "do" something, it would make cities feel more alive if there was a bit more constant activity.
That said, SWTOR is not really any different in this case than many other MMOs. Cities rarely have much activity in them. I think an easy way to fix this, and I think this could be done relatively easily is having a lot of random npcs simply patrol between multiple points. Have a lot of them randomly spawn so that every time that you pass, there's something different going on.
I don't know. For me, it's not really a big issue anyways. I'm not really sure why people care that much about it.
There was another topic about this here but it got locked for whatever reason - so I'm bringing this one over. I think this is one of the biggest problems with SWTOR right now and it doesn't seem to be getting the attention it deserves. The simple fact that the world just FEELS lifeless and static. Let me give a few examples:
1. Cities and social hubs - Running through these feels like a library or graveyard, not a bustling hub of activity. Why? Because the npc's are so static - like statues. There is hardly any ambient npc chatter, conversation, or sound (I heard 1 random npc conversation in 2 weekends of testing), and most of them are just stuck in place. You also can't interact with any npc's, unless they are a questgiver, for a small sentence or two of conversation like in other mmo's or the KOTOR games. There are a few examples of npc's "doing something", but those are in the great minority and even many of those are static in their actions (jedi meditating for example).
2. Mobs - A very high percentage of mobs just stand in place also, including non-aggro mobs. There is very little scripting / pathing for mobs in this game.
3. Critters / world creatures - Where are they? It's something you don't even really notice till they aren't there, but this game is severely lacking in them. The few that are there are also just stuck in place like statues.
4. Music / sound effects - There are large amounts of time with no music, which I think should be increased. It could also help if there were added ambient sound effects in the game (birds chirping, bugs, npc chatter as discussed earlier, etc).
All of this combined = a very static and lifeless world.
The argument that "this is how all mmo's are" doesn't work at all, as many AAA mmo's over the last 5-8 years have had great ambient atmosphere, npc acitivty, npc conversations, and lots of creatures running around.
Hopefully Bioware addresses this. The story, voice acting and cut scenes add a great deal of immersion, now if they can just get the rest of the game up to speed it would be awesome.
I tottally agree with you on all things I really do hope bioware changes it and adds more life to the game at least after launch and the major bugs are worked out. it honstly would tottally suck if they didnt care about stuff like that.
The world IS static, as much and even more static then in other mmos. In DK, its very static until you sometimes get very close to a group of npcs and they start to talk a bit, or the bounty hunter that blows up the tank and flees the 3 city guards. Playing up to Level 19 the zones with mobs be very static. This feels as static as Daoc did 11 years ago when it was ok, but today its very old and very bad design. The world isnt a world, its a panorama of a world, with some sketches. The Story and Companion part works very well, the rest is last millenium!
I go still play the game as long the story goes, its perfect fine for family and close friends coop-playing.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
After playing Skyrim every games world feels static.
Personally compared to WoW, Lotro, WAR and RIFT (My last 4 themeparks) TOR is no more static than the ones i listed.
This
I didn't see any difference from SWTOR as the rest of those listed. I think we would all like mmos to be more like Skyrim or The Witcher 2 in how alive the worlds are. But we haven't seen that yet.
We wont see a world like Skyrim in the mmorpg genre in quite a while.
The tech isnt there imo. Think about all the little things in skyrim that would just break down once you place thousands of people in the world. Everything the system has to keep track off. its too much.
This whole bit.
Besides, when you're running around the city like a crazy person, sometimes you don't catch certain things.
In Dromund Kaas, there's an area where you see a bunch of suspicious types mulling around some kind of car sized chunk of tech, with one working on it. At one point, the thing erupts into sparks and blows up, and a gunfight between them and some Imperial troops ensues.
I bet most of you saying "TOR is static" never saw that bit. It's not too far off the beaten path. So why didn't you catch it?
There's also the suspicious shopkeeper outside the starport on Tatooinne. If you just go running by, you'll just assume he's "another static mob". "TOR is static" folks... do you know what happens?
Now, these sorts of things aren't everywhere, and they, too, cycle over and over. But I think there's enough of them to where it's not fair to say that "they all just stand there".
I would love to see stuff like in Max Payne, where you run by a guy painting a wall and whistling... if you stop and listen he goes on and on like that for 2-3 minutes... but then I wonder how many people who played had any idea that that was the case?
Besides, when you're running around the city like a crazy person, sometimes you don't catch certain things.
In Dromund Kaas, there's an area where you see a bunch of suspicious types mulling around some kind of car sized chunk of tech, with one working on it. At one point, the thing erupts into sparks and blows up, and a gunfight between them and some Imperial troops ensues.
I bet most of you saying "TOR is static" never saw that bit. It's not too far off the beaten path. So why didn't you catch it?
There's also the suspicious shopkeeper outside the starport on Tatooinne. If you just go running by, you'll just assume he's "another static mob". "TOR is static" folks... do you know what happens?
Now, these sorts of things aren't everywhere, and they, too, cycle over and over. But I think there's enough of them to where it's not fair to say that "they all just stand there".
I would love to see stuff like in Max Payne, where you run by a guy painting a wall and whistling... if you stop and listen he goes on and on like that for 2-3 minutes... but then I wonder how many people who played had any idea that that was the case?
There are lots of npcs who do more than stand around. I agree though that there could be more activity. Even if they "do" something, it would make cities feel more alive if there was a bit more constant activity.
That said, SWTOR is not really any different in this case than many other MMOs. Cities rarely have much activity in them. I think an easy way to fix this, and I think this could be done relatively easily is having a lot of random npcs simply patrol between multiple points. Have a lot of them randomly spawn so that every time that you pass, there's something different going on.
I don't know. For me, it's not really a big issue anyways. I'm not really sure why people care that much about it.
Never in the OP does it say there are not exceptions, that every NPC is static. The problem is that too many are - and this has been talked about on the beta boards for a while now.
Saying that SWTOR is just like every MMO in this regard is not the case. I understand you don't really care about this sort of thing, but MMO's like LOTRO, EQ2, Vanguard, RIFT, and even WOW have a ton of what I listed as absent in this game. For example, all of those games you can pretty much click on any npc for a small chat convo - in TOR you can't do that with any npc - you can only talk with quest givers and merchants / trainers. TOR is almost devoid of world life / critters and never have I played an MMO with such a little amount of pathing / scripting for both npc's and mobs. Also, while I've seen a lot of npc's stuck in place in mmo's, never have I seen these statue people like in TOR, such as a Jedi who seem to be in the middle of casting a force power but are just locked in place mid cast - like time stopped for them. it just looks completely odd and wrong. The ambient atmosphere is missing as well - most cities and social hubs don't feel alive or sound alive, they are more like libraries.
While some of those mmo's did these things better than others, I believe all of them did it more than TOR. It's the first time I've ever even noticed something like this in an mmo, it's not like I went looking for it. And there are a lot of people who have posted about the same thing, so I know it's not just me.
Comments
Do you see the contradiction you just made.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
No just no... There's still the guy standing around with a symbol over his head waiting to hand out his objectives. MOBS who participate in DE's are still on a projected trajectory going only to where they are meant to be. WHich the end result will look just like NPC warzones in any other MMO where you're messing with this object or that one, while a scripted battle goes on around you. The only difference is you're not lead to that place at the time it's happening. You only see it if you're in the right place at the right time.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I didn't find it to be much different than their other games TBH.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I agree that this game's super static, it feels like a damn museum. But, as it was mentionned before, the fact that most of the zones are like 75% scenery and 25% exploration is a bigger concern for me.
That's the biggest SW:TOR flaw to me (besides crappy graphics imo) it forces you so much to do what bioware designed that it feels more like a co-op single player game than an actual MMO. I mean, there's like no MMORPG that is that linear, where u have like no choice about where to go and what to do as u need to follow ur story, u can't just hop in a heaps of zones of the same level that break the monotony. Here u got ur story and u better follow it, it got twists and turns sometimes, but u don't choose them.
A little more liberty would be nice, it would greatly enhance TOR's experience. And since Skyrim released, people are way more aware of what freedom in a game means (while Skyrim's like 2000x smaller than Arena and doesn't have randomly generated dungeons n all, that first TES was the best).
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You not only survived the zombie apocalypse, but did it with style! Your mastery of zombie knowledge, survival tactics, and weaponry is nearly unmatched. Congratulations, for you are hardcore!
OP here - my original post was never about SWTOR compared to Skyrim or any other single player RPG - some of the commenters pulled the thread in that direction which wasn't the goal. SWTOR is an MMO and shouldn't be compared with single player games or their types of features. This is simply about SWTOR as it is, and if compared to anything, other mmo's over the last 5-7 years
Another thing - I'm not here to bash TOR - I'm simply bringing up an issue I see with the game. I liked a lot of things about the game, I'm very much looking forward to playing the game, but this is something that I really noticed more and more as I played and feel it needs improvement.
I've seen a few comments that TOR is no different than any other mmo in this regard of immersive / living world. I highly disagree. I've spent a lot of time in LOTRO, Vanguard, EQ2, AOC, a week of RIFT, and a few months of WOW ss far as AAA mmo's go. Every one of those games you could interact with pretty much every single NPC for some small conversation, while in SWTOR you cannot interact with any npc unless they are a questgiver or mercant. While every mmo has their "statue" npc's, TOR seems to have way more than most - and perhaps that feeling is amplified by the fact that you cannot interact with them at all for a chat bubble of conversation or short voice acted tidbit of info. There were many more world creatures in those games, which TOR has very litte of, and most of which are just stuck in place. Which brings me to the next thing - I've never seen so many mobs just camped in one spot - there are very few patrols or mobs that are given pathing in TOR, which is the same for NPC's. It's also VERY quiet in areas that should be bustling with activity (The Jedi Temple, Coruscant, Senate Tower, etc etc). All of this combined is what led to the lifeless and static feel for me. There are exceptions of course, but my hope is that they make the exceptions the norm and not an exception.
I like SWTOR - I want it to do well and I look forward to playing - but this is something I really hope they don't just overlook.
So's yours.
I'm not trying to hide my bias.
It doesn't mean I'm not right. I played TOR, and it was bland and generic and I felt like I'd been there many times before. The world was static and felt like nothing happened, like what I did didn't matter. If I feel that way when I play GW2, I will be just as annoyed, and just as vocal about my disapproval.
I doubt that will happen.
Bioware even admitted they are ten years behind the current leader in immersive worlds. They know they can't build a living world, so they build a good story instead. I just don't like that I don't feel as if I have any control over said story. A couple of options that don't really matter and that I can't tell what will happen beforehand do not make for a roleplaying experience, at least to me. But they know they can't make a living world. They have said so themselves. So this whole static world thing isn't news.
Edit:
http://www.dealspwn.com/bioware-bethesda-ten-years-78444
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
Seems there's a lot of support for this thread in the official forums too.
Haven't played the game myself yet but I hope they will address this in a reasonably soonish timeframe.
How worlds look and feel is very important to me; the "looks" are great, so I hope eventually the ambient sounds, critters, etc, are on par with that.
My brand new bloggity blog.
TOR = KOTOR mixed with SWG without the tons of bugs.
It is fun. It is addicting. There is a ton of content.. It is polished, and runs mint on my PC. I can't wait to jump in game with all my old SWG guildies.
Cheers to Iron Circle! See you soon in game!
Tons of negative feedback Im reading, alot of which is personal opinion. Games arnt made to cater to everyone, I think some people really like to push there opinions, its the nature of the beast though.
I Was to busy playing my Imperial agent to level 20 in the few days that was given to us to notice any flaws. Everything I did flowed smooth as butter.
Also the game is huge, there is 16 planets for christ sakes. The people saying the graphics is bad are seriously out of line. We dont want to have a 50 gigabye game to download here cause of textures. Bioware made us thousands of quests that all imerse each character in there own little story, it looked really well done to me and to be honest was like a fine wine, the art style has its own flavor and to me almost like a cult art style. I keep thinking of all the over head shots as my character listened to NPCs and the background fiting into the conversation, it was amazing.
Untill there is a game that compleatly redefines gaming as we know it on a massive online role playing scale, everything is always going to be shit to everyone and every little thing people dont like will lead to massive threads about how the game sux and should be taken off life support. SWTOR isnt groundbreaking in this aspect, its merily a crossroad, a crossroad to new begingings, either accept it and enjoy it or not.
For me the game just didnt have anything about it. Now I do love Star wars, and hell I even love the new star wars animation movies they have done. I really think George Lucas has brought Star wars to a whole new egenration with thier excellent droid wars movies,story and,animation is absolutley brilliant in those movies.
But this game from Bioware just felt souless sorry to say. Other than Voiceovers what does it actually have? I played for the first day, then had absoloutely on inclination to login again. It had nothing to make me want to play again, other than read the mindless chat in general. I really expected a whole lot more, from a game that has been years in the pipeline, and has had the biggest budget EA has ever spent on a game. I can only imagine the numbe rof people left feeling this way, while it may do well initially in no way do i expect this to be the so called wow killer everyone keeps mentiniong about for a near decade now.
The i-word cannot be killed often and hard enough.
More realism does NOT make games better.
Otherwise everyone would play Sims and never anything else (well OK if you check it out Sims is grossly unrealistic as well, but as a general idea its the most "realistic" game out there).
Extremely mixed opinion from all the threads since the weekend beta overall, all to be expected. Slightly biased on the negative but, just like when boobs are inadvertantly flashed on tv, people who are 'offended and outraged' tend to complain more than people who like it will send in letters declaring their happiness at seeing boobs on tv.
I think the overall jist is that if you've played 'wow et al./kill-collect/raid-instance' to death for the last 6 years you are not going to enjoy this game. It's a big budget project whose development began when wow et al. games were at their peak popularity and, understandably, they decided they'd be fools not to learn something from that trend.
Wow-format-jaded players are clearly NOT the target audience and lack of their subs is not going to ruin the game one bit. Plenty more non-wow-format-jaded players will fill their places. I myself am within the statistic of people who played these kinds of games to death and I would love to have seen them take more risk to do something to exactly satisfy the needs of my cohort. Again, I just don't think we're the target audience. But, I won't begrudge people who do like the game their enjoyment. It is a well crafted game besides the fairly trivial issues of lifeless worlds and lack of depth - nothing different was guaranteed nor necessary to make it fun or a success. Imo, utterly familar in most regards though it is, it's at least probably worth a playthrough on one character for the main storyline which I found did give a decent smokescreen to the standard action button bash bash.
You are totally missing the point of immersion. It is not realism in the sense of being like the real world. It is realism in the sense of both making sense in the setting and feeling like an actual world a place with people moving about and doing their own thing instead of standing stock still and waiting for you to show up. That's not realistic. Totally different. Does that make sense?
And for that matter, if your life is anything like the Sims, you need serious help ASAP.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
Let's leave Skyrim out of the discussion and talk about something much closer to SWTOR that (IMO) has a much more immersive world...WoW.
First, the social hubs in WoW are so much more immersive than the ones in SWTOR. Children run through the streets, NPCs walk around, the architecture and art is unique and usually feels like an actual city. In SWTOR they are just vast expanses of nothing with vendors clearly marked on your map.
Second, WoW's world is much more "open" than SWTOR's. With the exception of swimming across the ocean, you can "go" almost anywhere in WoW's world. This makes the world feel so much more real, because you can almost always explore anything you see. SWTOR is so closed and guided compared to WoW. If you wander to far out of a zone you are insta-killed, there are red walls in places that you can't pass through, and every planet is only accessible by fast-traveling through space.
You can argue all you want that SWTOR can never be Skyrim because it's a themepark MMORPG...but what arguments can you levy against WoW? WoW is EXTREMELY close to SWTOR in design...I really see no reason why SWTOR couldn't at least be as immersive as WoW.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.
This whole bit.
Besides, when you're running around the city like a crazy person, sometimes you don't catch certain things.
In Dromund Kaas, there's an area where you see a bunch of suspicious types mulling around some kind of car sized chunk of tech, with one working on it. At one point, the thing erupts into sparks and blows up, and a gunfight between them and some Imperial troops ensues.
I bet most of you saying "TOR is static" never saw that bit. It's not too far off the beaten path. So why didn't you catch it?
There's also the suspicious shopkeeper outside the starport on Tatooinne. If you just go running by, you'll just assume he's "another static mob". "TOR is static" folks... do you know what happens?
Now, these sorts of things aren't everywhere, and they, too, cycle over and over. But I think there's enough of them to where it's not fair to say that "they all just stand there".
I would love to see stuff like in Max Payne, where you run by a guy painting a wall and whistling... if you stop and listen he goes on and on like that for 2-3 minutes... but then I wonder how many people who played had any idea that that was the case?
"Bioware ain't bioware anymore"
Sad, but 100% correct.
I personally don’t really care about npcs in games and I play mmorpgs to interact with other people. I will be rolling on a rppvp server and will judge how alive the game feels from the player generated content.
I remember when I first started playing rift and got to a starting town and saw one of their “dynamic events” and I thought it was the coolest thing ever but that feeling started to fade away the more I played because npcs can only go so far in making the world feel alive.
I wonder if there quality imbalance between factions. I see a lot complains from players who was on Republic side, while players from Empire side was very happy.
If man consider DA 1+2, ME etc,isn't it first time Bioware making multiple factions? Just thinking if it maybe they made by different teams, or priority didn't reach Republic side yet and a lot of stuff on "to do" list.
"Don't argue with dick-heads, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience"
Only on PvP realms is there a major imbalance.
PvE and RP realms are actually republic dominated. And with all the major world PvP happening in hot spots like Illium I have no problem rolling to a PvE server.
There are lots of npcs who do more than stand around. I agree though that there could be more activity. Even if they "do" something, it would make cities feel more alive if there was a bit more constant activity.
That said, SWTOR is not really any different in this case than many other MMOs. Cities rarely have much activity in them. I think an easy way to fix this, and I think this could be done relatively easily is having a lot of random npcs simply patrol between multiple points. Have a lot of them randomly spawn so that every time that you pass, there's something different going on.
I don't know. For me, it's not really a big issue anyways. I'm not really sure why people care that much about it.
I tottally agree with you on all things I really do hope bioware changes it and adds more life to the game at least after launch and the major bugs are worked out. it honstly would tottally suck if they didnt care about stuff like that.
The world IS static, as much and even more static then in other mmos.
In DK, its very static until you sometimes get very close to a group of npcs and they start to talk a bit, or the bounty hunter that blows up the tank and flees the 3 city guards.
Playing up to Level 19 the zones with mobs be very static.
This feels as static as Daoc did 11 years ago when it was ok, but today its very old and very bad design.
The world isnt a world, its a panorama of a world, with some sketches.
The Story and Companion part works very well, the rest is last millenium!
I go still play the game as long the story goes, its perfect fine for family and close friends coop-playing.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
Straw man argument my friend.
Never in the OP does it say there are not exceptions, that every NPC is static. The problem is that too many are - and this has been talked about on the beta boards for a while now.
Saying that SWTOR is just like every MMO in this regard is not the case. I understand you don't really care about this sort of thing, but MMO's like LOTRO, EQ2, Vanguard, RIFT, and even WOW have a ton of what I listed as absent in this game. For example, all of those games you can pretty much click on any npc for a small chat convo - in TOR you can't do that with any npc - you can only talk with quest givers and merchants / trainers. TOR is almost devoid of world life / critters and never have I played an MMO with such a little amount of pathing / scripting for both npc's and mobs. Also, while I've seen a lot of npc's stuck in place in mmo's, never have I seen these statue people like in TOR, such as a Jedi who seem to be in the middle of casting a force power but are just locked in place mid cast - like time stopped for them. it just looks completely odd and wrong. The ambient atmosphere is missing as well - most cities and social hubs don't feel alive or sound alive, they are more like libraries.
While some of those mmo's did these things better than others, I believe all of them did it more than TOR. It's the first time I've ever even noticed something like this in an mmo, it's not like I went looking for it. And there are a lot of people who have posted about the same thing, so I know it's not just me.