Well I for one paid for the god damn game expecting it to at least be playable. The current state isn't. I suspect they'll address the issue in some manner, but yeah like many others, being expected to pay just to peek in and see if they've made this pile of crap worth the cash spent on the box involves me and others.You're marking out, and it's kind of sad.The game you love sucks. Deal with it and stop showing up on every thread to put up walls of text as some sort of cushion or defense.
You do realize that your implication that the game isn't playable is entirely subjective, right? Thousands of people disagree with you, and while less disagree about the game being worthy of sub fee, there are still thousands that do.
Like you said, the game sucks, yet like you said, that is also an entirely subjective matter. What you're doing is outright refusing to acknowledge those who don't think the game sucks (those who are the main demographic at this point in time) and as such you haven't really said anything to counter my points in the slightest. You don't think the game is playable regardless of whether it's free or not, so this change has nothing to do with you. You don't play, you won't play until the current state of affairs change (which, quite clearly, was stated to not happen before 2.0, at which point the game will have another free trial period).
What truly is disturbing here is that you have decided that those who support the game are unworthy of being listened to while you who do nothing but reject the game yet should be able to decide what happens to it before the point at which you would even give it another try.
Most people have moved on, yet select few still manage to act like their loved ones were killed by SE yesterday. You bought the game, you want them to deliver for their mistake, and that's what they are doing. Now, why you give a damn about what happens during their journey from that point A to B is truly a mystery, as it doesn't affect you or your life in any way.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
1) If you aren't playing the game right now this decision has absolutely no effect on you and as such is none of your business to judge.
2) Square-Enix as of right now is not getting any revenue whatsoever from this title. Now, some people are saying that a move like this will make a dying game die much faster- which brings up a question: how can the game die faster if it is bringing in more revenue than before? It is as if the people here felt that the current playerbase has any other role than to spend SE's resources by keeping the service live for no cost. This brings me to the final fact;
3) SE is not obliged to keep the service live. They did so before, possibly as a PR attempt and to repay to those players who were not satisfied by the end product but kept playing either way. Now, these people have played for free for more than a year and as such SE owes them nothing more than a free copy of version 2.0. That leaves them two choices, to stop the service or to let those who want to keep playing to keep doing so for a fee to cover the expenses. Obviously the former would be a bad move and the latter is completely voluntary agreement between the customer and the corporation.
The comments are reasonable your reaction however is not.
2.0 is supposed to make the game pay worthy...... the problem is that 2.0 isn't comming out until 2013(?).
So they aren't asking you to pay what the game is worth, they are asking you to pay now what the game MAY be worth in a years time.
The objections to this are reasonable and expected from a rational sain adult.
The bad move is charging now for a game that won't be ready for another year. If they need money to stay afloat until then they really need to find another means. If they rely on the current players whom have expressed extreme dissatisfacation over the game in it's current state to pay and keep the game afloat for a year then everyones going to lose.
They went free to play because people weren't paying...... if they start charging now then you will simply end up in the exact same predicament they are trying to get out of only now they would have burned their player base twice.
Burning players once is something they have been struggling to recover from for awhile now. How well do you think they will hold up after another backlash over the same issues?
Gamers now days are not overly forgiving. Recieving a second chance is rare enough, hoping for a 3rd..... well I am sure you see where I am going with this.
It will be interesting to see how many of the f2p people continue with this game now it is charging. It looks like SE had two choices:
Continue with ftp until the complete overhaul had been done, or risk a drop in player numbers by introducing the payment model earlier.
It's a risk in terms of player numbers, but you can say that any money coming in is better than none at all. The danger could be the game loses so may players that the remainder get fed up of playing in a wasteland and move on.
SE painted themselves into a corner from the start with this game, which in fact did have a positive for the market. It served as a warning to other companies about the quality level of released product.
The comments are reasonable your reaction however is not. 2.0 is supposed to make the game pay worthy...... the problem is that 2.0 isn't comming out until 2013(?). So they aren't asking you to pay what the game is worth, they are asking you to pay now what the game MAY be worth in a years time.
I understand where you're coming from, but hear me out.
As has been mentioned quite a few times, whether the game is pay-worthy or not is entirely subjective. What 2.0 will possibly do is to make the product pay-worthy for a larger audience. That is a better way of stating it because here it is not implied that the game is not pay-worthy as of right now. That would be false as people exist who think the game is pay-worthy in the current state of affairs.
Now, that said, they are indeed asking those who do think the game is worthy of payments to pay up so the game can stay afloat up until 2.0. Whether you end up paying or not has no effect on the end result (as in 2.0). It has not been even implied that it would, and to be frank, the payments of those who like the game for what it is would, at best, cover the upkeep costs and nothing more. But, it is those upkeep costs that are the justification for asking payments in the first place. Whether we like it or not 2.0 is coming, but that does not mean that the service should continue up until then. As far as SE is concerned, the upkeep costs for those who have already played the game for a year is not going to be justifiable come 2012. They have still the right to a free copy of 2.0, but not to the current service. A years worth of free playtime, which these people did make good use of, is the corporation making up for the initial blunder. Now the debt has been repaid for that stage.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
The comments are reasonable your reaction however is not.
2.0 is supposed to make the game pay worthy...... the problem is that 2.0 isn't comming out until 2013(?).
So they aren't asking you to pay what the game is worth, they are asking you to pay now what the game MAY be worth in a years time.
I understand where you're coming from, but hear me out.
As has been mentioned quite a few times, whether the game is pay-worthy or not is entirely subjective. What 2.0 will possibly do is to make the product pay-worthy for a larger audience. That is a better way of stating it because here it is not implied that the game is not pay-worthy as of right now. That would be false as people exist who think the game is pay-worthy in the current state of affairs.
Now, that said, they are indeed asking those who do think the game is worthy of payments to pay up so the game can stay afloat up until 2.0. Whether you end up paying or not has no effect on the end result (as in 2.0). It has not been even implied that it would, and to be frank, the payments of those who like the game for what it is would, at best, cover the upkeep costs and nothing more. But, it is those upkeep costs that are the justification for asking payments in the first place. Whether we like it or not 2.0 is coming, but that does not mean that the service should continue up until then. As far as SE is concerned, the upkeep costs for those who have already played the game for a year is not going to be justifiable come 2012. They have still the right to a free copy of 2.0, but not to the current service. A years worth of free playtime, which these people did make good use of, is the corporation making up for the initial blunder. Now the debt has been repaid for that stage.
I think you missed the post I made after that one but the point is this.........
FFXIV can not survive another forced free to play conversion and while some may find the game pay worthy it would be wise to surf around a bit and check out the discussions going on. Those that find the game pay worthy are in an extreme minority. This is all obvious stuff here, not a real head scratcher.
So what does any company get out of players playing for free while they improve the game and let players test these improvements? Oh wait....... thats called a beta. What SE has apparently gained is insight on whats needed to bring the game up to a pay worthy state. I doubt they would have come up with the changes planned in 2.0 had it not been for all of those that continued to play. Well I guess we need to hope they have gained some insight on whats needed at least. In the end voting with out wallets is what brought us to free to play to begin with.......... I would simply hate to see a round two of that because I don't think FFXIV will survive having to go free to play again.
And yes their was a reason to continue to play a game you currently disliked since it was free. People had hope for this title and still do, many hand in their for the potential. If your there playing and giving feedback you have an opportunity to help a game you want to like become something more than another failed title to add to your video game dustbin. The FF ip has or at least had a strong fanbase many of us have played FF games for decades.
2.0 will have a beta of its own. The current version is not a beta, and even if it were, they would only need a fraction of the current playerbase to provide feedback for them. Nobody plays a game they dislike, regardless of whether it's free or not.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
The ones that are complaining that SE scammed them and such this long after release is comical. If you payed $70 for the Collector's Edition after the warnings from beta players or didn't even research a game before pre ordering isn't SE's fault. They gave a year's free play, and even if the game isn't to your liking still, they're giving another free trial once 2.0 hits for all that bought the game already. They can do nothing more besides what they're doing now, so save yourself the effort and stop complaining. There's a lot more you could be doing with your time.
Edit: The game is not dying, not dead, or won't die anytime soon. A majority of the forum dwellers on the Lodestone said they're staying after the fee, and the Lodestone has more complaining than MMORPG.coms forums. A lot of people are enjoying the game, me being one of them. Find yourself another game to play until 2.0, then try it again. If not, you got more than your moneys worth as you knew what you were buying. If not, you didn't research the game at all (which is always a roulette type game with a newly launched MMO) as they were many warnings.
I think you missed the post I made after that one but the point is this......... FFXIV can not survive another forced free to play conversion and while some may find the game pay worthy it would be wise to surf around a bit and check out the discussions going on. Those that find the game pay worthy are in an extreme minority. This is all obvious stuff here, not a real head scratcher.
I don't think it's any surprise to them that the people who find the game payworthy at this point consist of those who currently play it, who are a small minority like you said. But what they have figured out is that said minority can, with their payments, justify the service upkeep and as such the decision was made. Those who didn't find the game worthy of playing are in great majority but the thing is, that they have one thing in common: none of these people will be affected by this change, making their role in coming up with this decision moot. They don't play, great majority of them won't pay before 2.0 and possibly even after. As far as they are concerned, SE could shut down the service and they still wouldn't be affected. That's the fact.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
So what does any company get out of players playing for free while they improve the game and let players test these improvements? Oh wait....... thats called a beta.
What SE has apparently gained is insight on whats needed to bring the game up to a pay worthy state. I doubt they would have come up with the changes planned in 2.0 had it not been for all of those that continued to play.
Well I guess we need to hope they have gained some insight on whats needed at least.
In the end voting with out wallets is what brought us to free to play to begin with.......... I would simply hate to see a round two of that because I don't think FFXIV will survive having to go free to play again.
And yes their was a reason to continue to play a game you currently disliked since it was free. People had hope for this title and still do, many hand in their for the potential. If your there playing and giving feedback you have an opportunity to help a game you want to like become something more than another failed title to add to your video game dustbin. The FF ip has or at least had a strong fanbase many of us have played FF games for decades.
2.0 will have a beta of its own. The current version is not a beta, and even if it were, they would only need a fraction of the current playerbase to provide feedback for them. Nobody plays a game they dislike, regardless of whether it's free or not.
The current version turned into a data mining project for 2.0. Sure 2.0 will have a beta, but without the data mining from those that stuck it out it's a sure bet that there wouldn't be a 2.0 or at least a 2.0 thats as far along as it is already. I mean you can remain in denial all you want but the game went free to play because of the exact same complaints that exist about the game right now.
And yes people play games they dislike for different reasons but in this situation it is more or less they are playing a game that seems worth it as long as there is no monthly fee. I mean I like playing spades and hearts but not enough to pay a monthly fee to do so it's not that much fun it's basically something to do when I don't feel like doing anything else atm.
In any case I won't try and convience you of anything your set in your view and I'm set in mine.
If you are one of the few that does find the game pay worthy it would be wise to consider the long term effects of this move before defending it and chastising others for complaining.
Bottom line as I said before FFXIV will not survive another round of free to play. If it's forced to convert to a free to play model again soon after charging people its pretty much certain that the next step is closing down.
I think you missed the post I made after that one but the point is this.........
FFXIV can not survive another forced free to play conversion and while some may find the game pay worthy it would be wise to surf around a bit and check out the discussions going on. Those that find the game pay worthy are in an extreme minority. This is all obvious stuff here, not a real head scratcher.
I don't think it's any surprise to them that the people who find the game payworthy at this point consist of those who currently play it, who are a small minority like you said. But what they have figured out is that said minority can, with their payments, justify the service upkeep and as such the decision was made. Those who didn't find the game worthy of playing are in great majority but the thing is, that they have one thing in common: none of these people will be affected by this change, making their role in coming up with this decision moot. They don't play, great majority of them won't pay before 2.0 and possibly even after. As far as they are concerned, SE could shut down the service and they still wouldn't be affected. That's the fact.
Oh no, it's not the people that currently play it that find it pay worthy. It's a very small portion of those that currently play it that find it pay worthy. If they are banking on everyone currently playing to continue to do so when the monthly fee hits they are in for a very rude awakening.
I have no idea why you assume those playing now are willing to pay. Look around, those complaining about the up and comming monthly fee ARE playing. If they weren't they would have no reason to complain lol.
But any case I'm out of this conversation at least since it's going no where fast.
It is not about the sub fee but the fact that they are charging us for a beta. I never talk things out of my behind so i jumped in FFXIV recently to check the changes and it was more or less the same game. So whether it is 5 bucks or 15 a month, players are still paying for game which is still in beta testing.
If it was any other MMO same people who are supporting this would be up in arms and throw 'it is about principle' arguments at us.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
It is not about the sub fee but the fact that they are charging us for a beta. I never talk things out of my behind so i jumped in FFXIV recently to check the changes and it was more or less the same game. So whether it is 5 bucks or 15 a month, players are still paying for game which is still in beta testing.
If it was any other MMO same people who are supporting this would be up in arms and throw 'it is about principle' arguments at us.
Beta? The key systems are set. In 2.0, the game's keeping the Armory System, the same classes, same crafting, materia system, game engine, etc. The only big things that are changing is maps/character rendering/UI/storyline.
I guess when WoW had Cataclysm change it's maps or when an MMO added new races it was considered a beta product too.
Oh no, it's not the people that currently play it that find it pay worthy. It's a very small portion of those that currently play it that find it pay worthy. If they are banking on everyone currently playing to continue to do so when the monthly fee hits they are in for a very rude awakening. I have no idea why you assume those playing now are willing to pay. Look around, those complaining about the up and comming monthly fee ARE playing. If they weren't they would have no reason to complain lol. But any case I'm out of this conversation at least since it's going no where fast.
Like I said, the people who find the game payworthy Consist of those people who currently play...... Not that all of them find it payworthy. As for the relative number, you don't really have a case to sway the numbers either way. There was a poll on the forums that only people who have logged in at lease once a month could vote on, and that vote came in favor of those who were willing to pay. It doesn't prove anything though, only that claiming either is a shot in the dark at best since evidence exists for both cases to happen.
As far as my interpretation goes, I find it very likely that they are banking on obtaining more revenue, possibly enough to justify keeping the service up until 2.0, than they do currently. I find it hard to believe they couldn't meet that expectation considering they are getting zero revenue right now.
Of course something that was free before but is not so anymore will bring a fair share of complaints. That still doesn't justify keeping the service live, SE is no charity organization and, after a year, oews these people nothing but a free 2.0 version.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
It is not about the sub fee but the fact that they are charging us for a beta. I never talk things out of my behind so i jumped in FFXIV recently to check the changes and it was more or less the same game. So whether it is 5 bucks or 15 a month, players are still paying for game which is still in beta testing. If it was any other MMO same people who are supporting this would be up in arms and throw 'it is about principle' arguments at us.
Whether its a beta or not is up for interpretation once again. SE doesn't treat it as one, and you may think it is one and in that case you don't have to participate. Some people don't think of it as beta, and are willing to pay, and their opinion is not wrong. Only those who don't think of it as a beta should be the ones paying, and it's not like SE could affect that decision in any way. In the end the customer agrees to pay and it is up to him and her entirely.
I myself am disgusted at people who voluntarily would pay for something they consider a beta, and think that it would give SE the wrong message entirely. As such I strongly suggest people to not do so and let only those who really want to keep the service up so they can participate in it to pay the fees. I sincerely doubt that SE is expecting anything more or less, although I'm sure they won't reject anyone who wants to pay up either.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
The simple truth is that charging now is just going to make a dying game die faster. The servers are already empty enough as it is (this is coming from someone on one of the most active servers) and when they start charging people to help fix their beta, they're just going to be even more empty and lifeless. The problem however is that if they want to keep this game afloat, they have to charge.
I am sure square-enix has enough money to make this game work BEFORE asking for money.
Originally posted by Hyanmen
Whether its a beta or not is up for interpretation once again. SE doesn't treat it as one, and you may think it is one and in that case you don't have to participate. Some people don't think of it as beta, and are willing to pay, and their opinion is not wrong. Only those who don't think of it as a beta should be the ones paying, and it's not like SE could affect that decision in any way. In the end the customer agrees to pay and it is up to him and her entirely.
How does it matter how you call it? It still the same game and content and there is no interpretation to that. It's the same for everyone regardless the name your giving it. Does that mean the person paying for it is wrong, well clearly not, but whatever you call it a beta or not an pay for it. The message to SE would be the same.
The simple truth is that charging now is just going to make a dying game die faster. The servers are already empty enough as it is (this is coming from someone on one of the most active servers) and when they start charging people to help fix their beta, they're just going to be even more empty and lifeless. The problem however is that if they want to keep this game afloat, they have to charge.
I am sure square-enix has enough money to make this game work BEFORE asking for money.
They do, yet that has nothing to do with keeping the service up until that happens for a negligible amount of people for free. In reality it would probably be easier for them to take the current service down and focus entirely on 2.0.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Shut it down and rerelease under a new name, when its done of course. FFXIV just echos around the mmo community as a terrible game. Names stick like mud.
The simple truth is that charging now is just going to make a dying game die faster. The servers are already empty enough as it is (this is coming from someone on one of the most active servers) and when they start charging people to help fix their beta, they're just going to be even more empty and lifeless. The problem however is that if they want to keep this game afloat, they have to charge.
I am sure square-enix has enough money to make this game work BEFORE asking for money.
They do, yet that has nothing to do with keeping the service up until that happens for a negligible amount of people for free. In reality it would probably be easier for them to take the current service down and focus entirely on 2.0.
This does not make sense to me at all. So keeping it running for a negligible amount of people for free does not make sence, but letting a negligible amount of people pay is wise? Knowing some if not most of the already negligible people will leave the game as well?
I think just closing the game is a better solution for the time being untill there ready to release something that is good and right and do the reboot and hope they can restore consumer faith.
This does not make sense to me at all. So keeping it running for a negligible amount of people for free does not make sence, but letting a negligible amount of people pay is wise? Knowing some if not most of the already negligible people will leave the game as well? I think just closing the game is a better solution for the time being untill there ready to release something that is good and right and do the reboot and hope they can restore consumer faith.
If people exist that are willing to pay the expenses that would be otherwise unjustifiable at this point in time, why not do it? The other option is to ignore these people and take the game down, each decision resulting in the same outcome- break even for server upkeep costs. Keeping the service up for free results in losses that are not justifiable. Remaking the game results in losses that can possibly be reversed, and they need no voluntary help to remake the game.
As, once again, this solution hardly affects anyone more negatively than shutting the service down, while letting those who want to play let them do so. Either way if you're not willing to play you won't do so with a free or if the game wasn't even possible to play. Except if the game was shut down nobody would be able to play, even those who want to. It's the selfish option with similar results SE wants to achieve.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
How is it none of their business? Perhaps they're prior players and wanted to chime in. Maybe they've been following the game for a year. You may not agree with their opinions, but they're just as entitled to theirs as you are of yours. Nobody is calling you a slobbering 'tard for enjoying the game and your willingness to pay for it.
Like I said, their lives are not affected in any shape or form by this. They can have their opinion, but they're idiots if they think it matters. It's like being pissed about US raising taxes while you live in France. Herpaderp.
As far as losing potential subs, that could be correct. Then again, if one has played the game in it's current state for a year already the chances are he will at least check out 2.0 (where his achievements thus far are stored). As such while you nor I know anything about the true state of affairs I'm doubtful that the ratio of players lost exceeds the ratio of revenue gained. SE has their own experts to calculate these things, so sorry for being skeptical about an internet anonymity with a grudge claiming doom&gloom. Oh, since the announcement of 2.0 any potential new players have been lost up until 2.0. SE was quite straightforward in stating that the game will not change drastically up until then, leaving players who gave up on the game for being what it is little reason to come check things out beforehand. Only people left are those who enjoy the game right here and right now.
But if they previously lived in the US or had relatives in the US, they may be interested or they may want to join the discussion. Having an opinon doesn't make you an idiot, but calling other people an idiot for having one does.
They're going to lose players during this transition period, but they're going to make more money than they've made for the last year, so it's good for SE. The game is going to continue to crawl along until 2.0, and then we'll see if all the hard work pays off.
It is not about the sub fee but the fact that they are charging us for a beta. I never talk things out of my behind so i jumped in FFXIV recently to check the changes and it was more or less the same game. So whether it is 5 bucks or 15 a month, players are still paying for game which is still in beta testing.
If it was any other MMO same people who are supporting this would be up in arms and throw 'it is about principle' arguments at us.
Beta? The key systems are set. In 2.0, the game's keeping the Armory System, the same classes, same crafting, materia system, game engine, etc. The only big things that are changing is maps/character rendering/UI/storyline.
I guess when WoW had Cataclysm change it's maps or when an MMO added new races it was considered a beta product too.
Very silly arguments, considering that even Yoshi called FFXIV a half-finished game.
Very silly arguments, considering that even Yoshi called FFXIV a half-finished game.
Yoshi said the game was halfway to having that "Final Fantasy" feeling. A common misquote that needs to die already. And the arguments are valid. The core systems are here to stay. No ones losing progress once 2.0 hits.
Comments
Err, a lot of us are playing the game and enjoying ourselves. A game not to your liking =/= not playable.
You do realize that your implication that the game isn't playable is entirely subjective, right? Thousands of people disagree with you, and while less disagree about the game being worthy of sub fee, there are still thousands that do. Like you said, the game sucks, yet like you said, that is also an entirely subjective matter. What you're doing is outright refusing to acknowledge those who don't think the game sucks (those who are the main demographic at this point in time) and as such you haven't really said anything to counter my points in the slightest. You don't think the game is playable regardless of whether it's free or not, so this change has nothing to do with you. You don't play, you won't play until the current state of affairs change (which, quite clearly, was stated to not happen before 2.0, at which point the game will have another free trial period). What truly is disturbing here is that you have decided that those who support the game are unworthy of being listened to while you who do nothing but reject the game yet should be able to decide what happens to it before the point at which you would even give it another try. Most people have moved on, yet select few still manage to act like their loved ones were killed by SE yesterday. You bought the game, you want them to deliver for their mistake, and that's what they are doing. Now, why you give a damn about what happens during their journey from that point A to B is truly a mystery, as it doesn't affect you or your life in any way.The comments are reasonable your reaction however is not.
2.0 is supposed to make the game pay worthy...... the problem is that 2.0 isn't comming out until 2013(?).
So they aren't asking you to pay what the game is worth, they are asking you to pay now what the game MAY be worth in a years time.
The objections to this are reasonable and expected from a rational sain adult.
The bad move is charging now for a game that won't be ready for another year. If they need money to stay afloat until then they really need to find another means. If they rely on the current players whom have expressed extreme dissatisfacation over the game in it's current state to pay and keep the game afloat for a year then everyones going to lose.
They went free to play because people weren't paying...... if they start charging now then you will simply end up in the exact same predicament they are trying to get out of only now they would have burned their player base twice.
Burning players once is something they have been struggling to recover from for awhile now. How well do you think they will hold up after another backlash over the same issues?
Gamers now days are not overly forgiving. Recieving a second chance is rare enough, hoping for a 3rd..... well I am sure you see where I am going with this.
It will be interesting to see how many of the f2p people continue with this game now it is charging. It looks like SE had two choices:
Continue with ftp until the complete overhaul had been done, or risk a drop in player numbers by introducing the payment model earlier.
It's a risk in terms of player numbers, but you can say that any money coming in is better than none at all. The danger could be the game loses so may players that the remainder get fed up of playing in a wasteland and move on.
SE painted themselves into a corner from the start with this game, which in fact did have a positive for the market. It served as a warning to other companies about the quality level of released product.
I understand where you're coming from, but hear me out. As has been mentioned quite a few times, whether the game is pay-worthy or not is entirely subjective. What 2.0 will possibly do is to make the product pay-worthy for a larger audience. That is a better way of stating it because here it is not implied that the game is not pay-worthy as of right now. That would be false as people exist who think the game is pay-worthy in the current state of affairs. Now, that said, they are indeed asking those who do think the game is worthy of payments to pay up so the game can stay afloat up until 2.0. Whether you end up paying or not has no effect on the end result (as in 2.0). It has not been even implied that it would, and to be frank, the payments of those who like the game for what it is would, at best, cover the upkeep costs and nothing more. But, it is those upkeep costs that are the justification for asking payments in the first place. Whether we like it or not 2.0 is coming, but that does not mean that the service should continue up until then. As far as SE is concerned, the upkeep costs for those who have already played the game for a year is not going to be justifiable come 2012. They have still the right to a free copy of 2.0, but not to the current service. A years worth of free playtime, which these people did make good use of, is the corporation making up for the initial blunder. Now the debt has been repaid for that stage.I think you missed the post I made after that one but the point is this.........
FFXIV can not survive another forced free to play conversion and while some may find the game pay worthy it would be wise to surf around a bit and check out the discussions going on. Those that find the game pay worthy are in an extreme minority. This is all obvious stuff here, not a real head scratcher.
2.0 will have a beta of its own. The current version is not a beta, and even if it were, they would only need a fraction of the current playerbase to provide feedback for them. Nobody plays a game they dislike, regardless of whether it's free or not.The ones that are complaining that SE scammed them and such this long after release is comical. If you payed $70 for the Collector's Edition after the warnings from beta players or didn't even research a game before pre ordering isn't SE's fault. They gave a year's free play, and even if the game isn't to your liking still, they're giving another free trial once 2.0 hits for all that bought the game already. They can do nothing more besides what they're doing now, so save yourself the effort and stop complaining. There's a lot more you could be doing with your time.
Edit: The game is not dying, not dead, or won't die anytime soon. A majority of the forum dwellers on the Lodestone said they're staying after the fee, and the Lodestone has more complaining than MMORPG.coms forums. A lot of people are enjoying the game, me being one of them. Find yourself another game to play until 2.0, then try it again. If not, you got more than your moneys worth as you knew what you were buying. If not, you didn't research the game at all (which is always a roulette type game with a newly launched MMO) as they were many warnings.
I don't think it's any surprise to them that the people who find the game payworthy at this point consist of those who currently play it, who are a small minority like you said. But what they have figured out is that said minority can, with their payments, justify the service upkeep and as such the decision was made. Those who didn't find the game worthy of playing are in great majority but the thing is, that they have one thing in common: none of these people will be affected by this change, making their role in coming up with this decision moot. They don't play, great majority of them won't pay before 2.0 and possibly even after. As far as they are concerned, SE could shut down the service and they still wouldn't be affected. That's the fact.The current version turned into a data mining project for 2.0. Sure 2.0 will have a beta, but without the data mining from those that stuck it out it's a sure bet that there wouldn't be a 2.0 or at least a 2.0 thats as far along as it is already. I mean you can remain in denial all you want but the game went free to play because of the exact same complaints that exist about the game right now.
And yes people play games they dislike for different reasons but in this situation it is more or less they are playing a game that seems worth it as long as there is no monthly fee. I mean I like playing spades and hearts but not enough to pay a monthly fee to do so it's not that much fun it's basically something to do when I don't feel like doing anything else atm.
In any case I won't try and convience you of anything your set in your view and I'm set in mine.
If you are one of the few that does find the game pay worthy it would be wise to consider the long term effects of this move before defending it and chastising others for complaining.
Bottom line as I said before FFXIV will not survive another round of free to play. If it's forced to convert to a free to play model again soon after charging people its pretty much certain that the next step is closing down.
Oh no, it's not the people that currently play it that find it pay worthy. It's a very small portion of those that currently play it that find it pay worthy. If they are banking on everyone currently playing to continue to do so when the monthly fee hits they are in for a very rude awakening.
I have no idea why you assume those playing now are willing to pay. Look around, those complaining about the up and comming monthly fee ARE playing. If they weren't they would have no reason to complain lol.
But any case I'm out of this conversation at least since it's going no where fast.
It is not about the sub fee but the fact that they are charging us for a beta. I never talk things out of my behind so i jumped in FFXIV recently to check the changes and it was more or less the same game. So whether it is 5 bucks or 15 a month, players are still paying for game which is still in beta testing.
If it was any other MMO same people who are supporting this would be up in arms and throw 'it is about principle' arguments at us.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
Beta? The key systems are set. In 2.0, the game's keeping the Armory System, the same classes, same crafting, materia system, game engine, etc. The only big things that are changing is maps/character rendering/UI/storyline.
I guess when WoW had Cataclysm change it's maps or when an MMO added new races it was considered a beta product too.
Like I said, the people who find the game payworthy Consist of those people who currently play...... Not that all of them find it payworthy. As for the relative number, you don't really have a case to sway the numbers either way. There was a poll on the forums that only people who have logged in at lease once a month could vote on, and that vote came in favor of those who were willing to pay. It doesn't prove anything though, only that claiming either is a shot in the dark at best since evidence exists for both cases to happen. As far as my interpretation goes, I find it very likely that they are banking on obtaining more revenue, possibly enough to justify keeping the service up until 2.0, than they do currently. I find it hard to believe they couldn't meet that expectation considering theyare getting zero revenue right now. Of course something that was free before but is not so anymore will bring a fair share of complaints. That still doesn't justify keeping the service live, SE is no charity organization and, after a year, oews these people nothing but a free 2.0 version.
Whether its a beta or not is up for interpretation once again. SE doesn't treat it as one, and you may think it is one and in that case you don't have to participate. Some people don't think of it as beta, and are willing to pay, and their opinion is not wrong. Only those who don't think of it as a beta should be the ones paying, and it's not like SE could affect that decision in any way. In the end the customer agrees to pay and it is up to him and her entirely. I myself am disgusted at people who voluntarily would pay for something they consider a beta, and think that it would give SE the wrong message entirely. As such I strongly suggest people to not do so and let only those who really want to keep the service up so they can participate in it to pay the fees. I sincerely doubt that SE is expecting anything more or less, although I'm sure they won't reject anyone who wants to pay up either.I check into the game every patch. It's still not worth the subscription. The damage is irreversible in context of the public's eye.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
I am sure square-enix has enough money to make this game work BEFORE asking for money.
How does it matter how you call it? It still the same game and content and there is no interpretation to that. It's the same for everyone regardless the name your giving it. Does that mean the person paying for it is wrong, well clearly not, but whatever you call it a beta or not an pay for it. The message to SE would be the same.
I am sure square-enix has enough money to make this game work BEFORE asking for money.
They do, yet that has nothing to do with keeping the service up until that happens for a negligible amount of people for free. In reality it would probably be easier for them to take the current service down and focus entirely on 2.0.Shut it down and rerelease under a new name, when its done of course. FFXIV just echos around the mmo community as a terrible game. Names stick like mud.
This does not make sense to me at all. So keeping it running for a negligible amount of people for free does not make sence, but letting a negligible amount of people pay is wise? Knowing some if not most of the already negligible people will leave the game as well?
I think just closing the game is a better solution for the time being untill there ready to release something that is good and right and do the reboot and hope they can restore consumer faith.
If people exist that are willing to pay the expenses that would be otherwise unjustifiable at this point in time, why not do it? The other option is to ignore these people and take the game down, each decision resulting in the same outcome- break even for server upkeep costs. Keeping the service up for free results in losses that are not justifiable. Remaking the game results in losses that can possibly be reversed, and they need no voluntary help to remake the game. As, once again, this solution hardly affects anyone more negatively than shutting the service down, while letting those who want to play let them do so. Either way if you're not willing to play you won't do so with a free or if the game wasn't even possible to play. Except if the game was shut down nobody would be able to play, even those who want to. It's the selfish option with similar results SE wants to achieve.But if they previously lived in the US or had relatives in the US, they may be interested or they may want to join the discussion. Having an opinon doesn't make you an idiot, but calling other people an idiot for having one does.
They're going to lose players during this transition period, but they're going to make more money than they've made for the last year, so it's good for SE. The game is going to continue to crawl along until 2.0, and then we'll see if all the hard work pays off.
Very silly arguments, considering that even Yoshi called FFXIV a half-finished game.
RIP FFXIV 01-06-2012
I just hope they fix the Final Fantasy series name sake.
Yoshi said the game was halfway to having that "Final Fantasy" feeling. A common misquote that needs to die already. And the arguments are valid. The core systems are here to stay. No ones losing progress once 2.0 hits.