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Battlegrounds should not be on PvP Servers
SkillCosby
Member Posts: 684
Battlegrounds (Instanced PvP) trumps every PvP System due to it's ease of development and pvp gear incentive.
Battlegrounds were originally created for the consensual-yearning PvP folk. However, its safety and simplicity has spilled over onto the PvP Servers.
PvP Servers are supposed to be overflowing with unpredictability and the element of surprise. This hasen't been the case for a long time now.
PvP Servers should be void of instanced PvP. Instead, they should be handled in a way more grand, e.g., bounty system for gankers, REAL infiltration missions that give meaning, the ability to control vast areas of land through conquering your opponent.
NO BATTLEGROUNDS ON PVP SERVERS.
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Instanced PvP almost always make any open world PvP content irrelevant and ignored. I think this would be a good fix to allow players to choose their prefered method of PvP.
Battlegrounds shouldn't exist in an open world MMOG. They were introduced later on in WOW because of its early PVP design flaw. Also, the distinction between PVP and PVE is awkward. Design a world, design a set of rules for your world where both PVErs and PVPers can coexist and deal with it instead of copying lazy rules and delivering a decaffeinated substitute for what it should be a living breathing immersive world.
Or they could just give the Open World PvP an actual purpose, beyond the open world gankfest it is. ArcheAge seem to be doing some interesting things, like bring people together with one goal in mind. This will then spill into some meaningful open world PvP. Guild Wars 2 will also be doing something interesting, seperating its open world PvE & PvP experiences, so that it will not be a gankfest, whilst taking certain ques from DAoC (the 3 sides and keep sieges).
Both these games will have their instanced PvP options but their open world PvP seem appealing, because they have been given a purpose or seem like a fun way to spend some time. So instead of blaming battlegrounds for the failing of open world PvP, why not understand that open world PvP isn't all that fun if your just ganking unsuspecting foes.
Battlegrounds shouldn't exist period, and neither should instances really ~ personally I think they've ruined MMOs...
I would much rather see specific areas of zones, or entire zones marked as open-world PvP. That way a more casual PvE player can still enjoy the game, and opt to participate in PvP when they like without being forced into it.
Element A of MMORPGs is supposed to be my own narrow definition of what's fun, therefore we should force players to have fun that way. Players love being forced to have fun a specific way.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I agree and disagree.
I think battlegorunds are fun and sure accessable for everyone but just take out rewards from them and then peopel wil lonly play for fun.
and the problem i see is making ORvR meaningful, its the reason most PvP's fail.. its why the 14 days of warhamemr i get free every couple of months is enough to me get bored of it again.
DAOC had HUGE Battlegrounds up till level cap.
And at cap, Realm Vs Realm, which was essentially a huge area to pvp- Perfect system imo.
Games that have PvP anywhere, anytime, don't have enough concentrated pvp.
Shadowbane is a prime example..
Relax, the game just came out, give it some time...enjoy what they did know, and be excited of what they can do in the near future....
I actually don't know of any games this could remotely apply to. Most games that have this had awful world PvP in comparison to instances. World of Warcraft's PvP outside of battlegrounds and arenas was just as pointless today as it was back on release. i participated in both, liked battlegrounds better and I made my home on mal ganis with Goonswarm and laughingskull with friends from college, both PvP realms. Stealing and ransoming a flightmaster gets old really fast. Raiding Stormwind to pop those still flagged was just as meaningless. Warsong Gulch? I played counterstrike for years and UT2k4 as well, always up for capture the flag and objective based nonsense for a silly title and some nice gear to play better during then with.
Battlegrounds put order to pvp. Lets face it, open world pvp in its basis involves a gank fest. The only one having fun are those taking advantage of the others who stand no chance. Sure, I get a joy out of 'killing the ganker' but most of the time ganking is about picking on the weaker guy and for no purpose but to grief.
Not saying you can't have organized pvp without it, but most the time its anything but 'glorious'. You need to have world pvp set up and done in just the perfect way, and I have yet to see a game that does it. Lets face it, if you got free pvp, most immature people will run around killing the lowbies and just taking advantage of those lesser leveled/geared.
You would think people learned this 10 years ago but apparently there are slow learners out there.
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Presumptuous much? What a burden it must be, being one of the few people who knows what PvP servers are supposed to be. Thanks for sharing.
It doesn't take a genius to understand the blatant disregard of innovative PvP. Battlegrounds are lazy at best - on a PvP Server.
It's almost 2012. Mankind has pulled off some pretty amazing things, e.g., heart transplants, the tech-computer you're using, capturing images of planets that are light years away, etc.
With that said, do you mean to tell me that 5v5 or 8v8 INSTANCED PvP is noteworthy to be the dominant PvP force in a MASSIVE MULTIPLER Online Roleplaying Game?
Yes. It is a burden.
Yes, no ..uhm
Battlegrounds are there for a quick match of pvp. The problem might be that they give the same rewards as other pvp.
On the other hand many mmos have no decent system for open world pvp - it is either unbalanced, sucks or a grind.
In wow battlegrounds have their place for casual gamers..in an open world sandbox you could have arenas where you fight for gold.
It is debatable that pvp rewards should equal pve rewards and vice versa - as the whole level system is debatable :P
There are certain underlying truths to what most people consider fun PVP. Zerg2win and progress2win PVP usually isn't it. Generally PVP is considered a skillful contest with the victor deserving it -- which is why all of mankind's sports and the overwhelming majority of it's videogames are about fair competition.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I like what The Secret World has planned, separate areas with pvp (including large scale pvp). The zerg potential will be lower because in the large scale pvp faction numbers will be capped. So once the max number of a faction is reached in the pvp zone, no more can enter until some leave. Meanwhile, I don't have to worry about Teabagger98 and Darknite2000 sneaking up on me while I'm turning in a quest.
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While I do not like e-sports I do not see why any one would want to remove something these players like. The problem isn't instanced PvP. The problem is that open world PvP in a Themepark has no meaning aside from griefing people that are trying to do PvE content. When I PvP I want to do it to conquer lands. Not so that I can interupt some one elses PvE gaming.
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The problem is being forced to participate in these battlegrounds for pvp gear.
The "don't like, don't play it" saying does not apply. I want the nice looking pvp gear. I HAVE to play battlegrounds...
What's funny is this: If all rewards were removed from BGs, most people would not play them.
Having different sets of gear for PvP and PvE is something that needs to go.
My theme song.
Exactly. Xzen is right on both accounts. People really don't go out of their way to Open World PvP in themepark MMOs because there's generally no meaning to it. There's nothing to gain except for a bit of PvP currency (sometimes) and the feeling of ruining someone's day. For people like the OP, that may be enough, because for some reason, removing instanced PvP from PvP servers will make everyone start openly ganking each other. When what's likely to happen is that PvP servers will become ghost towns in comparison to PvE servers, because these themepark MMOs just don't have good open world PvP options. The only games on the horizon that I can even fathom having some good open world PvP are: ArcheAge, Guild Wars 2 and quite possible The Secret World. Getting rid of their instanced PvP won't make their open world PvP options anymore desirable.
As for PvP gear, I also think it's something that needs to be abolished and is the reason why I gave up on Rift's PvP, becuase it made nonsense like this possible. I played a mage of the same level & the same spec, yet because I had Rank 2 PvP gear, it actually took effort of me to kill a person, but because the person in the video had Rank 8 PvP gear, well... you'll see for yourself.
I would have agreed in many cases. Then I saw some Secret World videos and how they Instance you in and out like Silent Hill. It looks pretty damn cool actually.
Battlegrounds are fun the first few times you play them, after that they become boring and predictable at best. They're even worse when it's a PUG and not a pre-made group.
The argument that world PvP is a zerg is also true for battlegrounds. Since death penalties are all but extinct, there is no motivation not to charge mindlessly into battle. Who cares if you die. There is no incentive to work as a team, it's not like they can boot you for not pulling your weight. Some games even reward the losing team (don't want to hurt their delicate feelings).
Battle should be chaotic and unforgiving.
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-- Herman Melville
Yep. Exactly.
Theres alot of problems with BG's and PvP Gear. Rewards for PvP should have never been implemented in the first place. They give a purpose for Pvp which is to farm gear.
But PvP in a persistant world shouldnt be about gear - it should be about the fight itself. It should be about what you, as a player, make of it. Whether it be a territorial dispute, guild politics, or just plain old malicious intent - whatever it is, thats what makes PvP fun. It saddens me to hear of people talking about "Farming gear in BG's". They make it sound like theyre going to work, to a job.
These MMOs have turned into second life jobs. They were never supposed to be second life jobs. And I find the entire thing abhorrent.
With no death penalty, PvP becomes even more meaningless. Whats the point of killing someone if they just come back five minutes later?
Do you know, I nodded off in a WoW BG?
A day later, I quit.
You'll get the same thing with PVE gear, someone out there whos competive will always do whatever they can to broaden the power level difference between themselves and the average joe to an extreme amount.