Just a guess here but you two missed out on Vanguard? What with its terrible launch it seems like most mmo gamers missed VG. Anyway, just for the record, it's crafting was not stupid.
Yeah never touched VG, why would I?
SoE is a horrible horrible company that has never ever had any intention of making that game fly. As soon as they aquired it it went right off my radar. Sorry.
Stupid is objecitve, define how VG's is not stupid.
I can define why FFXI, DAOC, WOW, UO, and every other game's crafting WAS stupid, why it totally turned me off and made me avoid it like it was the black plague. Mostly the fact its extremely dull and has no benefit and its impossible to do while you are playing the game and having FUN, normally you must dedicate HOURS to being totally bored by the crafting "mini game."
horrible game design.
Thank you SWTOR for breaking the mold.
As a dedicated crafter I love involvement, there is an amount of that in SW:TOR's version but you are limited to something which is nothing more than an RNG system with a story attached, you can't devote any of your own play time to the process. I want to create a purple jacket for my campanion so I send all my companions to gather and craft, that leaves dead time for me, I could be patient but if I did that I'd out level the gear. It's not a system for crafters like me, it's a crafting system for people who would rather not, perfect for you but severely lacking for me.
At high levels the crew harvesting takes quite a while - over an hour, for a moderate amount of resources. Yes you can get resources from this alone, but its far more effective to go and harvest at the same time in the world.
Yes, thats right, harvesting nodes still exist, and at high levels youll want to be using them to augment your crew harvesting. Rare mission drops and harvesting from game world nodes are some of the quicker ways to get rare materials too.
The breaking down crafted gear to get better recipes works well. I think its a nice balance between the more involved crafting systems (EQ2 / Vanguard) and the easymode / bot crafting (WoW). But thats just me, if your main goal in a game is to craft, then this game is definitely not for you.
SWTOR has received a lot of criticism for supposedly copying other MMOs. Well here are SWTOR MMO innovations that can't be found in the rest of the AAA MMO field:
1) Any already found binding location can be selected when using the 30 min cool down fast travel - opposed to the industry standard of making you pick a single location to be bound to.
2) Anyone can rez their allies! No need to be a healer (all other MMOs) or have a purple rez in your inventory (CoH) - and no, GW2 isn't out yet!
3) Permanently upgradeable gear - you can keep the same lightsaber all game if you like, just upgrade it's parts. Same goes for all types of weapons and armor.
4) Fully voiced with excellent voice acting!
5) Decisions put you on the spot from a moral stand point. Do you kill the NPC or let them live? Don't tell me you haven't sat there for 10 or 15 seconds on occasion trying to decide an NPCs fate.
6) Decisions affect your character. Do bad things and your character will start to look evil over time. Your crew members will judge you too!
7) The coolest mounts you've ever seen! They are actually mechanical and don't revolve around fantasy beasts.
8) Player housing in the form of an upgradeable space ship complete with space combat. Yes Lotro has housing but it's not nearly as cool and the rest of the AAA field does not! I'd almost allow STO in here but those "ship bridges" are pretty weak.
9) 17 planets so far - who knows how many they will have?
10) Crafting/Professions are beneath you - order your subordinates to do it for you!
11) Engaging story which is told to you and experienced in cinematic form.
12) Smoothest launch in MMO history.
13) If you die in the main game world, you can rez on the spot - no more ghost runs! Only punishment is a short timer and a durability hit.
14) Space combat - refined to be better than rudimentary offers in EVE/STO
15) Legacy System of levelling alts
I could go on but I have to get back in game and make sure Vette is doing as I asked. She better be if she doesn't want another shock!
I'll add more when I have more time. Please contribute innovations you have experienced in SWTOR!
1. You can bind many locations in LoTRO for example. And port anywhere in Vanguard.
2. Some MMOs already have it. Like Guild Wars
3. LoTRO legendaries. WoW leveling gear.
4. The only valid point out of 15. And it didnt work very well in MMOs since many people skipping it already. Bioware overestimated
full voiceover's effect in MMOs.
5. There are only limited decisions which have no effect in game world. Nowhere near the level of KoTOR. You can choose dialogue options in many MMOs like Age of Conan.
6. Effect very little actually.
7. Lolwhat. ToR is not even close in mounts department to EQ2 or WoW
8. Housing in ToR is innovation? Are you kidding? EQ2 has by far greater number of options and freedom in housing
9. So what? ToR's world is still far smaller then older MMOs like WoW and EQ2
10. Bland boring crafting nowhere on level with Vanguard or EVE
11. Story is biggest selling point, but where is innovation? FF11, Guild Wars and LoTRO have huge and high quality storylines. Even WoW's new locations have great storylines behind them.
12. Huge queues, bugs and crashes is called the best launch? Rofl. LoTRO's launch had NOTHING of those and was smoother then silk. RIFT's day 1 was far better too.
13. Same as in LoTRO and many other games.
14. Just a mini game. SWG's space combat was better.
15. WoW has far more options for leveling alts.
Funny that author made so many silly invalid points and forgot about the only good one. Companions. None MMO on market has companions that so much influence gameplay
To be fair, those are nice features, not inovations. A better question to ask is "how many games haves all the above available in their game?"
None probably .
But once again, to be fair, you could make a feature list for WoW and SWTOR wouldn't have all it has either. Every game is at least a little different.
Now, I like swtor but the OP is just full of it and if I didn't already play the game I'd wonder what dark secrets you're trying to hide with that epic smokescreen...
As I said many times, in any game i could not care less for "innovation" than I currently do. it means to me like last years snow. What I do care is how FUN game is. And so far swtor is my best starting experience ever or at par with wow and Rift.
Either the OP is a Troll, knows none of these things are very innovative and is just stirring the pot.
Is a nOOb to MMOs and doesnt realize than nothing he listed is really innovative to the genre.
Or is a complete NUB and has no idea what innovative means
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Looking at what he lists as new (the vehicles part lol) I think that he obviously enjoys the game but is fairly new to MMO's. Or at least didnt play many different ones.
Imo the main good features are the fully voiced quests and the tasks you can give to your companions. Even the permanently upgradable weapon part is not that innovative for the reason that the OP gives. If a MMO lets you put a weapon in the appearance tab, you have basically the same effect (EQ2 for example). You can then also keep using the same looking weapon during lvling.
The spacecombat part makes me doubt him though. EVE offering rudimentary spacecombat?
That's all you've got? Some things that you're going to pretend haven't been done before (and better!), and some minor tinkering around the edges? And you're trying to argue that the game is innovative?
Okay, so I'll grant that the crafting system is innovative. But it's also a minor feature, and not something where you log on one day and say, I'm going to spend three hours crafting today.
I was extremely surprised to see a positive and well thought out post highlighting a games good points. I guess I've grown jaded and cynical from all the Blizzard fanboys hating on anything not WoW. Mods really ought to clean up this site. Ah damn, the mods are fanboys too. Scratch that.
13) If you die in the main game world, you can rez on the spot - no more ghost runs! Only punishment is a short timer and a durability hit.
So in the next innovation, there will be no death penalty
interesting rather than discuss it you insult it.
There is a 10 minute timer on resing yourself where you are, and your party cannot be in combat, and you must be in a place where it is allowed.
Yeah you are right clearly this is just making it soooo casual friendly and care bear death penalty doesnt' exsist, even though you still lose durability, and you must spend gold to repair it.
In other words, no, its not dumbing anything down, you are being ridiculous.
I am not really insulting, maybe a little sarcastic. The OP phrasing suggest as an advantage having a less harsh death penalty, which is hardly innovative. The point of this thread seems to be if those features are innovations or not, not the actual nature of the feature. Advocating or not for more or less harsh death penalty is irrelevant.
people are surprised that launches are getting smoother, of course they are devs learn from past mistakes and avoid them in future launches. its alot easier to host 1 million players in 2012 than it was in 2004..think about it.
people are surprised that launches are getting smoother, of course they are devs learn from past mistakes and avoid them in future launches. its alot easier to host 1 million players in 2012 than it was in 2004..think about it.
Of course they learn from their mistakes. They quit making sandboxes after all.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Can Innovation be negative? Because imo the full cinematic quests is very negative and makes playing an MMO turn into a single player game. I tried the beta and uninstalled so fast because of the stupid cinematic's.
If the OP thinks this star wars is an amazing game based on a list like that then he must have thought a lot of MMO's were amazing.
VG is an amazing game that took innovation to the next level and look at where it is today.
WAR brought public quests to mainstream mmo's and look where it is today.
Another words a lot of MMO's brought "Innovation" and now are just holding on.
The MMO genre has been doomed for years and will not crawl out of the hole its in. We are getting to the point where MMO's are going in all different directions and making specific games to specific people. Eve, Perpetuum, Atlantica, lineage, Guild wars, World of tanks, and the list goes on. Not saying all these games are amazing, but the excel at what they do. If anything I think Star Wars could be bunched with them as a single player RPG with MMO elements.
Originally posted by snoop101 Can Innovation be negative? Because imo the full cinematic quests is very negative and makes playing an MMO turn into a single player game. I tried the beta and uninstalled so fast because of the stupid cinematic's.
Cinematics aren't an innovation.
But yeah to your question there are innovations that can be quite negative. But SWTOR doesn't really contain any to discuss.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Comments
Number 10 isn't new, idk which game it was but i played one where your pets could gather for you...wish i could remember the name
number 11 = LOTRO
and number 13 = tons of games have had this system where you take a durability hit/more exp loss for ressing ont he spot.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
At high levels the crew harvesting takes quite a while - over an hour, for a moderate amount of resources. Yes you can get resources from this alone, but its far more effective to go and harvest at the same time in the world.
Yes, thats right, harvesting nodes still exist, and at high levels youll want to be using them to augment your crew harvesting. Rare mission drops and harvesting from game world nodes are some of the quicker ways to get rare materials too.
The breaking down crafted gear to get better recipes works well. I think its a nice balance between the more involved crafting systems (EQ2 / Vanguard) and the easymode / bot crafting (WoW). But thats just me, if your main goal in a game is to craft, then this game is definitely not for you.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
1. You can bind many locations in LoTRO for example. And port anywhere in Vanguard.
2. Some MMOs already have it. Like Guild Wars
3. LoTRO legendaries. WoW leveling gear.
4. The only valid point out of 15. And it didnt work very well in MMOs since many people skipping it already. Bioware overestimated
full voiceover's effect in MMOs.
5. There are only limited decisions which have no effect in game world. Nowhere near the level of KoTOR. You can choose dialogue options in many MMOs like Age of Conan.
6. Effect very little actually.
7. Lolwhat. ToR is not even close in mounts department to EQ2 or WoW
8. Housing in ToR is innovation? Are you kidding? EQ2 has by far greater number of options and freedom in housing
9. So what? ToR's world is still far smaller then older MMOs like WoW and EQ2
10. Bland boring crafting nowhere on level with Vanguard or EVE
11. Story is biggest selling point, but where is innovation? FF11, Guild Wars and LoTRO have huge and high quality storylines. Even WoW's new locations have great storylines behind them.
12. Huge queues, bugs and crashes is called the best launch? Rofl. LoTRO's launch had NOTHING of those and was smoother then silk. RIFT's day 1 was far better too.
13. Same as in LoTRO and many other games.
14. Just a mini game. SWG's space combat was better.
15. WoW has far more options for leveling alts.
Funny that author made so many silly invalid points and forgot about the only good one. Companions. None MMO on market has companions that so much influence gameplay
None probably
.
But once again, to be fair, you could make a feature list for WoW and SWTOR wouldn't have all it has either. Every game is at least a little different.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Innovation
I don't think that word means what you think it does.
As I said many times, in any game i could not care less for "innovation" than I currently do. it means to me like last years snow. What I do care is how FUN game is. And so far swtor is my best starting experience ever or at par with wow and Rift.
Either the OP is a Troll, knows none of these things are very innovative and is just stirring the pot.
Is a nOOb to MMOs and doesnt realize than nothing he listed is really innovative to the genre.
Or is a complete NUB and has no idea what innovative means
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
So it's a fact that SWTOR contains the "coolest" mounts anyone has ever seen? Interesting.
Looking at what he lists as new (the vehicles part lol) I think that he obviously enjoys the game but is fairly new to MMO's. Or at least didnt play many different ones.
Imo the main good features are the fully voiced quests and the tasks you can give to your companions. Even the permanently upgradable weapon part is not that innovative for the reason that the OP gives. If a MMO lets you put a weapon in the appearance tab, you have basically the same effect (EQ2 for example). You can then also keep using the same looking weapon during lvling.
The spacecombat part makes me doubt him though. EVE offering rudimentary spacecombat?
That's all you've got? Some things that you're going to pretend haven't been done before (and better!), and some minor tinkering around the edges? And you're trying to argue that the game is innovative?
Okay, so I'll grant that the crafting system is innovative. But it's also a minor feature, and not something where you log on one day and say, I'm going to spend three hours crafting today.
YES.
I was extremely surprised to see a positive and well thought out post highlighting a games good points. I guess I've grown jaded and cynical from all the Blizzard fanboys hating on anything not WoW. Mods really ought to clean up this site. Ah damn, the mods are fanboys too. Scratch that.
I am not really insulting, maybe a little sarcastic. The OP phrasing suggest as an advantage having a less harsh death penalty, which is hardly innovative. The point of this thread seems to be if those features are innovations or not, not the actual nature of the feature. Advocating or not for more or less harsh death penalty is irrelevant.
people are surprised that launches are getting smoother, of course they are devs learn from past mistakes and avoid them in future launches. its alot easier to host 1 million players in 2012 than it was in 2004..think about it.
Of course they learn from their mistakes. They quit making sandboxes after all.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
i don't think the OP has played many MMOs...
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
It isnt.
Can Innovation be negative? Because imo the full cinematic quests is very negative and makes playing an MMO turn into a single player game. I tried the beta and uninstalled so fast because of the stupid cinematic's.
If the OP thinks this star wars is an amazing game based on a list like that then he must have thought a lot of MMO's were amazing.
VG is an amazing game that took innovation to the next level and look at where it is today.
WAR brought public quests to mainstream mmo's and look where it is today.
Another words a lot of MMO's brought "Innovation" and now are just holding on.
The MMO genre has been doomed for years and will not crawl out of the hole its in. We are getting to the point where MMO's are going in all different directions and making specific games to specific people. Eve, Perpetuum, Atlantica, lineage, Guild wars, World of tanks, and the list goes on. Not saying all these games are amazing, but the excel at what they do. If anything I think Star Wars could be bunched with them as a single player RPG with MMO elements.
Cinematics aren't an innovation.
But yeah to your question there are innovations that can be quite negative. But SWTOR doesn't really contain any to discuss.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.