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Economy Killer: People duping comms like crazy last 48 hours

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  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Member UncommonPosts: 793

    Originally posted by Baseline

    People have made tens of millions off this already buying purple comm boxes and vendoring back the items on multiple accounts, but they won't do a rollback.

    There is no way they would do a rollback.

    Maybe they won't. I dunno. As a gamer, I would take a few days of lost time in a rollback over a broken economy and weeks/months of account investigations for them to ban the correct players.

    Take the hit now or suffer the consequences later. Just my personal preference to take the shortterm hit.

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  • JakdstripperJakdstripper Member RarePosts: 2,410

    LMAO!

    ....damn i thought this only happened in crappy games like MO......

    they should be still able to see people that have an incredible ammounts of gold, i mean it's only been out for 2 weeks. sure some people might have bought all the best gear and such but in 4 months or so (when the new purples come out) that wont matter anymore. the only real problem is if they are allowed to keep super large ammounts of gold......i highly doubt it.

    they will look at players that have super large ammoutns of gold an then they will trace thier logs. if someone has been duping with macros their logs will be very extensive.

  • Aroich1Aroich1 Member Posts: 36

    Time to  go down with the ship.

     

    >Band starts playing music

    >You start dancing

    >Dancing interrupts the band's ability to play music

    "This is Captain Bioware, please refrain from dancing while the band plays."

    >Well I didn't want to dance anyway

    >You paid to get on the ship, not to dance

    >Dancing interrupting the band isn't a bug, it's an exploit
  • TUX426TUX426 Member Posts: 1,907

    Honestly, how difficult would this be to trace?

    The idiots duping KNOW Bioware logs player activity - there's only so many commendations that any "normal" player could gain. Can't Bioware simply dig through the logs to see who has a total of MORE than 'x' coms?

    Ban these people. Cheaters RUIN games.

  • BaselineBaseline Member Posts: 503

    Originally posted by TUX426

    Honestly, how difficult would this be to trace?

    The idiots duping KNOW Bioware logs player activity - there's only so many commendations that any "normal" player could gain. Can't Bioware simply dig through the logs to see who has a total of MORE than 'x' coms?

    Ban these people. Cheaters RUIN games.

    The comms are removed from your currency after you buy the items with them.

    They vendor the purples they bought with comms, then spread that cash around to guildies, alts, etc, rinse repeat, when they're done, they only have a few comms.

    Plenty of players that loot farm chests, play a ton, selling crafted items/mats, playing the market,, etc, are already eclipsing near or breaking 10 million, so for some guy to stick 10 mil a pop on all of his alts throws all of those characters into the pile of 'above average' in the database, not odd and extreme.

    No player doing this will be stupid enough to leave 100mil+ sitting on a single character so they can go in the database and sort characters currency amounts and see BobaFart - 300mil and ban him.

    Exploiters tend not to be that stupid.

  • KabaalKabaal Member UncommonPosts: 3,042

    Originally posted by Baseline

    Originally posted by TUX426

    Honestly, how difficult would this be to trace?

    The idiots duping KNOW Bioware logs player activity - there's only so many commendations that any "normal" player could gain. Can't Bioware simply dig through the logs to see who has a total of MORE than 'x' coms?

    Ban these people. Cheaters RUIN games.

    The comms are removed from your currency after you buy the items with them.

    They vendor the purples they bought with comms, then spread that cash around to guildies, alts, etc.

    Plenty of players that loot farm chests, play a ton, selling crafted items/mats, playing the market,, etc, are already eclipsing near or breaking 10 million, so for some guy to stick 10 mil a pop on all of his alts throws all of those characters into the pile of 'above average' in the database, not odd and extreme.

    No player doing this will be stupid enough to leave 100mil+ sitting on a single character so they can go in the database and sort characters currency amounts and see BobaFart - 300mil and ban him.

    Exploiters tend not to be that stupid.

    Yet they'll still do it knowing that Bioware may be able to just sort by number of commendations spent.

  • ShaydeShayde Member Posts: 4,529

    No reason for a rollback. It's not like we ahve a real economy that is being hurt here.

    Shayde - SWG (dead)
    Proud member of the Cabal.
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    It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
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    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

  • BaselineBaseline Member Posts: 503

    Originally posted by Kabaal

    Originally posted by Baseline


    Originally posted by TUX426

    Honestly, how difficult would this be to trace?

    The idiots duping KNOW Bioware logs player activity - there's only so many commendations that any "normal" player could gain. Can't Bioware simply dig through the logs to see who has a total of MORE than 'x' coms?

    Ban these people. Cheaters RUIN games.

    The comms are removed from your currency after you buy the items with them.

    They vendor the purples they bought with comms, then spread that cash around to guildies, alts, etc.

    Plenty of players that loot farm chests, play a ton, selling crafted items/mats, playing the market,, etc, are already eclipsing near or breaking 10 million, so for some guy to stick 10 mil a pop on all of his alts throws all of those characters into the pile of 'above average' in the database, not odd and extreme.

    No player doing this will be stupid enough to leave 100mil+ sitting on a single character so they can go in the database and sort characters currency amounts and see BobaFart - 300mil and ban him.

    Exploiters tend not to be that stupid.

    Yet they'll still do it knowing that Bioware may be able to just sort by number of commendations spent.



    A variable check like this isn't usually built into the game code / database.

    Put yourself in their position. Yeah, there's certain integrity checks you'd code in as a developer thinking in terms of anti-exploiting.

    But making a variable for "comms spent"?

    I don't see it. Maybe now.

  • VegettoVegetto Member Posts: 841


    Originally posted by Baseline

    Originally posted by Kabaal

    Originally posted by Baseline


    Originally posted by TUX426

    Honestly, how difficult would this be to trace?
    The idiots duping KNOW Bioware logs player activity - there's only so many commendations that any "normal" player could gain. Can't Bioware simply dig through the logs to see who has a total of MORE than 'x' coms?
    Ban these people. Cheaters RUIN games.
    The comms are removed from your currency after you buy the items with them.
    They vendor the purples they bought with comms, then spread that cash around to guildies, alts, etc.
    Plenty of players that loot farm chests, play a ton, selling crafted items/mats, playing the market,, etc, are already eclipsing near or breaking 10 million, so for some guy to stick 10 mil a pop on all of his alts throws all of those characters into the pile of 'above average' in the database, not odd and extreme.
    No player doing this will be stupid enough to leave 100mil+ sitting on a single character so they can go in the database and sort characters currency amounts and see BobaFart - 300mil and ban him.
    Exploiters tend not to be that stupid.


    Yet they'll still do it knowing that Bioware may be able to just sort by number of commendations spent.

    A variable check like this isn't usually built into the game code / database.
    Put yourself in their position. Yeah, there's certain integrity checks you'd code in as a developer thinking in terms of anti-exploiting.
    But making a variable for "comms spent"?
    I don't see it. Maybe now.


    couple of MMOs i've been in do sometimes suspend trading on accounts if irregular trade patterns pop up, like many big transfers, i've personally had it, where i was quitting a game (maybe SWG) and my trading got suspended as i was giving my stuff away to people.

    Then again, these guys actually buy or trade stuff very irregularly, it's just accumulating comms, which like you said can be very thinly spread out.

    It relies on either a method to check irregular comms accumulation or they rollback 72hrs or more, which they won't dare do under any circumstances.


    they are praying their Dev team put the checks in now, seriously.

    image

  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Member UncommonPosts: 793

    Originally posted by Vegetto

     




    Originally posted by Baseline





    Originally posted by Kabaal






    Originally posted by Baseline








    Originally posted by TUX426



    Honestly, how difficult would this be to trace?

    The idiots duping KNOW Bioware logs player activity - there's only so many commendations that any "normal" player could gain. Can't Bioware simply dig through the logs to see who has a total of MORE than 'x' coms?

    Ban these people. Cheaters RUIN games.






    The comms are removed from your currency after you buy the items with them.

    They vendor the purples they bought with comms, then spread that cash around to guildies, alts, etc.

    Plenty of players that loot farm chests, play a ton, selling crafted items/mats, playing the market,, etc, are already eclipsing near or breaking 10 million, so for some guy to stick 10 mil a pop on all of his alts throws all of those characters into the pile of 'above average' in the database, not odd and extreme.

    No player doing this will be stupid enough to leave 100mil+ sitting on a single character so they can go in the database and sort characters currency amounts and see BobaFart - 300mil and ban him.

    Exploiters tend not to be that stupid.






    Yet they'll still do it knowing that Bioware may be able to just sort by number of commendations spent.



     

    A variable check like this isn't usually built into the game code / database.

    Put yourself in their position. Yeah, there's certain integrity checks you'd code in as a developer thinking in terms of anti-exploiting.

    But making a variable for "comms spent"?

    I don't see it. Maybe now.



    couple of MMOs i've been in do sometimes suspend trading on accounts if irregular trade patterns pop up, like many big transfers, i've personally had it, where i was quitting a game (maybe SWG) and my trading got suspended as i was giving my stuff away to people.

    Then again, these guys actually buy or trade stuff very irregularly, it's just accumulating comms, which like you said can be very thinly spread out.

    It relies on either a method to check irregular comms accumulation or they rollback 72hrs or more, which they won't dare do under any circumstances.



    they are praying their Dev team put the checks in now, seriously.

    They can track it. Database transaction logs are a wonderful thing. Plus they likely have some 3rd party tools to give them nice reporting and features and all that jazz.

    Now the real issue (imo) is that you have to seperate the valid commendation gains from the invalid. It wasn't uncommon for me to loot 2-3 commendations at once from fighting multiple enemies and just AOE'ing the hell out of them, then use the "loot all" option. So false positives would be a definite problem here. So in this case, doing a "mass ban" probably won't do and that means individual account investigations which means a looooong process. Or they could just "mass ban" and hope the false positives don't quit. /shrug

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  • oakthornnoakthornn Member UncommonPosts: 863

    I dont think they will shut the servers down and do a rollback, lol. That would result in thousands of very upset gamers. Some in which would cancel their accnts. Duping has been around forever, it won't go away. The only way to try to prevent this from continuing is for bioware to figure out the leak and plug it up hardcore.. And try finding those responsible and perma ban their accounts... 

     

    Rallithon Oakthornn
    (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,686
    Problems like this are discovered during beta, but not told to developers as the people finding these things are only in beta to get an advantage in the real game

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Problems like this are discovered during beta, but not told to developers as the people finding these things are only in beta to get an advantage in the real game

    Well technically speaking those people, unless paid by Bioware, have no obligation to report anything to Bioware. It is really Bioware's responsibility to make sure these kind of major bugs are not IG when game is going live.

  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Problems like this are discovered during beta, but not told to developers as the people finding these things are only in beta to get an advantage in the real game

    Well technically speaking those people, unless paid by Bioware, have no obligation to report anything to Bioware. It is really Bioware's responsibility to make sure these kind of major bugs are not IG when game is going live.

    Which is what a decent inhouse QA team would do, and they likely would have caught such a bug if they had a decent QA team that followed thorough testing procedures on all of the core game mechanics.

    I'm really starting to wonder where the $150 something million they spent on this game really went.

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    Developers need beta testers to do their job, not being paid has got nothing to do with it. E.g runtime defects that are not handled as exceptions, beta testing and runtime logging and tracing is the last line of defense.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    Originally posted by Bladestrom

    Developers need beta testers to do their job, not being paid has got nothing to do with it. E.g runtime defects that are not handled as exceptions, beta testing and runtime logging and tracing is the last line of defense.

    The problem is that beta testing has gone from being small and exclusive groups of beta testers who actually know how to test and care about the qualtiy of the game... to letting in swarms of people mainly to stress test servers and load management, where all those players are interested in is getting a sneak peak trial of the game, rather than actually testing and spotting bugs.

  • ForumTrollForumTroll Member Posts: 140

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Problems like this are discovered during beta, but not told to developers as the people finding these things are only in beta to get an advantage in the real game

    Well technically speaking those people, unless paid by Bioware, have no obligation to report anything to Bioware. It is really Bioware's responsibility to make sure these kind of major bugs are not IG when game is going live.

    On the other hand. The only reason these people were allowed early access and a beta invite were to help the game not find ways to hurt it. If they can't or won't help find all the bug and glitches and then report, one would think what is really the point of beta's to begin with. So by your logic the only reasonable thing for company's to do is not allow players to beta test there product and just prolong release even longer. Then when people ask why there was no beta, they can tell them. because it is our responsibility to find the bugs and glitches, because we dont trust what a few select players are capable of. Sorry for the inconvenience. Hey, at least now we dont need a bug section of forum!

    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975

    Originally posted by cyress8

     




    Originally posted by Kyleran

      (Having a lot of fun with Skyrim atm anyhow)

     






    Stay with Skyrim. The CS, IT COMES! Damn, the day the mod kit releases will be glorious.

     

    You know, I'm going to.  Haven't really enjoyed a single player title in many years (tried several of them) and this one is grabbing me for some reason. 

    Facinating game world physics in this title, the other day I was dumping extra inventory while standing on the side of high, steep hillside and I dropped about 4 apples.  To my surprise the shield fell at my feet but the apples went rolling down the hillside, actually bouncing back and forth as they incurred various obstacles and terrain changes finally coming to the rest at the bottom of the hill.

    Amazing really, and it sure would be wonderful if someday we'd see an MMO with similar realism in the environment.

    OK, no more off topic, back to the rage over the cheaters who seem to ruin every title out there somehow.

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • ShaydeShayde Member Posts: 4,529

    Let's be real, the only ones betatesting who are trying to find ways to cheat are the ones who want to cheat when the game goes live. Everyone else will be testing the game systems looking for gameplay bugs, not trying to cheat your way to millions.

     

    So blaming the betatesters is just plain retarded. That type of thing is found by professionals or after they check the post-launch metrics.

    Shayde - SWG (dead)
    Proud member of the Cabal.
    image

    imageimage
    It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
    I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
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  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    Ye it's true enough that the only quantifiable testing that you can verify in beta is performance.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • XthosXthos Member UncommonPosts: 2,740

    Beta testers don't write bad code....

     

    They should be able to track large credit gains in a short period of time, I mean that should be essential as a anti-gold seller type software feature I would think now.

     

    This is crap, I am all for a roll-back, even though it affects my play time, and anyone doing it should be perma-banned....MMO companies usually ban someone for like 24-72 hours, and it makes the risk of being caught for anything worth it to them.

     

    I like the account death penalty if it is clear that you cheated a ton of times for the credits....If it happened a couple times, or you tried it once to see if it was real and didn't exploit it....No...but when the counter flips due to massive exploiting...gone imo...

     

    If they do nothing, they are just another crap company that coddles the cheaters, so they can keep their subs.

  • TealaTeala Member RarePosts: 7,627
    Originally posted by Shayde

    Let's be real, the only ones betatesting who are trying to find ways to cheat are the ones who want to cheat when the game goes live. Everyone else will be testing the game systems looking for gameplay bugs, not trying to cheat your way to millions.
     
    So blaming the betatesters is just plain retarded. That type of thing is found by professionals or after they check the post-launch metrics.

     

    OMG Shayde, where have you been? It's been like forever since I last saw you post.
  • Arathir86Arathir86 Member UncommonPosts: 442

    Originally posted by Shayde

    Let's be real, the only ones betatesting who are trying to find ways to cheat are the ones who want to cheat when the game goes live. Everyone else will be testing the game systems looking for gameplay bugs, not trying to cheat your way to millions.

     

    So blaming the betatesters is just plain retarded. That type of thing is found by professionals or after they check the post-launch metrics.

    Proffesionals... hah, thats a laugh.

    A bug like this was probably found by someone opening their mail, and clicking the one he had open again only to find the comms 'came back'

    Most bugs are found by doing your everyday routine.

    If anything this a failure on the QA department.

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  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    See, now THIS is something that you should get banned for.  I can't believe that after all the drama that went on about the bans of the folks farming chests in Illum, this happens.  I'm betting that the "economy corruption" caused by the chest farming is child's play compared to this.

    I'd thought you would be ok with this and not think of it as an exploit.

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  • orsonstfuorsonstfu Member Posts: 203

    I'll be straight with you all... The lid is off of this exploit but there are MANY MANY more in the game. Some of them just as outrageous or more so.

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