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Sigh. So, GW2 is shaping up to be WoW 2 in many ways.

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Comments

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Member Posts: 1,277

    Originally posted by Diovidius

    Originally posted by DannyGlover
    cosmetic items, transmutation stones and color dyes in a cash shop that couldve gone towards making a more interesting crafting system imo.. shame
    Considering this game is Buy to Play, how exactly do you expect Anet to make money?

    id rather pay a sub and have an interesting crafting system with more options than have a b2p with a cash shop selling stuff that could have made the crafting better.

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson Member UncommonPosts: 1,919

    Originally posted by Diovidius

    Originally posted by DannyGlover

    cosmetic items, transmutation stones and color dyes in a cash shop that couldve gone towards making a more interesting crafting system imo.. shame

    Considering this game is Buy to Play, how exactly do you expect Anet to make money?

    By releasing an absolute ton of paid expansions.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by Teala

    I think people need to realize that this game is a themepark game with a twist.    It is not the next coming of gaming Jesus...it is just another themepark.

    If any game will shake up the genre it will be ArcheAge.   It is the only game in the future that will put this genre back on the path it should have been going since the time of UO.  

    Have to agree here..

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • PNM_JenningsPNM_Jennings Member UncommonPosts: 1,093

    well GODSDAMN!!!!! i'm right there with you. y'know, i smelled something fishy when i saw screenshots and saw that there were going to be characters. and after they announced skills, i was just like "WoW clone."

    /end sarcasm

    so your beef that makes GW2 a WoW clone is that there is money and gear damage involved in the dp, and that the mobs have high hp? seriously? i guess you're entitled to you opinion, but i'd reccommend looking into your definitions. so yeah. according to you (at least as i see it) two bananas do in fact make a person. (which is good news since, coincidentally, i ate two bananas for breakfast, so i guess i'm a real person).

    EDIT: also the hit to your downed state timer goes away after a minute. and nothing happens to your armor until all the peices get a counter if you will, so you can die 6 times before anything happens to you, and honeslty it looks like dying might be tricky (which is probably why the mops have so much hp).

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Member RarePosts: 3,655

    Originally posted by Dream_Chaser

    I never thought I'd actually say something like that, but I feel betrayed, and people need to understand fully what's going on as we approach release. ArenaNet are slipping things in which is making the game more and more like WoW.

    I don't know why they're doing that.

    I mean, that's appealing to the WoW crowd, and down that road lays madness and bankruptcy. And if they continue this way then they're going to end up with a flop on their hands, likely to the magnitude of Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, or even worse.

    So, two things have come up, that people need to know about.

    1. The death penalty has become ridiculous.

    Okay, so if you die, this happens...

    1. You're downed, but every time you're downed after you lose 25% of your downed bar permanently until you're forced to 'die.' So, once you're downed you only get 75% of it next time, then 50%, then 25%, and after that you're forced to 'die.'

    2. When you're forced to die, you have to pay a sum of gold to teleport to the nearest waypoint.

    3. When you're forced to die, a piece of armour breaks.

    4. When all your armour breaks, you have to pay again to repair all of your armour.

    5. When the above death occurs, you have to pay for the teleport and for the armour repair.

    If that's not WoW-like then what is?   This does not sound like WoW at all... WoW's death penalty is very forgiving and all you have to do is pay repair costs, which is dirt cheap even at max level in the best gear its nothing more than a minor bother...  this isn't WoW like at all... perhaps you've never played WoW?

    2. The battles are looking more and more like WoW.

    One thing the press has been noticing in recent builds is that not only is the AI pretty dumb, but it takes forever to kill a single mob. This means that you can have five guys beating on one mob and it can take over two minutes to kill. Does this sound familiar? Yeah, WoW.    Again, most monsters in WoW you can kill in 3 hits... and it takes one person to kill it.... what you are describing is MANY MANY other mmos... like FFXI...   Again have you played wow?

    Now, the approach I hoped they'd take would be more like CO or Guild Wars 1. Where you have a large group of foes, and some are responsible for healing, some are responsible for debuffing, and when you kill most of the group, the rest will run off to get help. This makes fights dynamic and interesting, because if you don't kill the right guys first, and if you don't kill the guys who run off for reinforcements, things can turn bad.   I'm willing to bet that there are mobs that have different AI's again, the vids and press you've seen are all about early game, last time I checked other mmo's the mobs get more advanced AI as you level.

    My conclusion is you have no idea what a WoW like game is, as the things you are listing off are pretty much the reverse of "wow like"  at first I thought you were being sarcastic, but now I see you are just completely off base. 

     

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,990

    Originally posted by DannyGlover

    The combat looks similar to wow except for the barrel rolls. But I know from playing too may fighting games that you never really know how a game feels until you play it for yourself. Over the top flashy effects have typically been an indicator of shallow gameplay in other games. But I will judge this one on its own merits when I finally get my hands on it.

    crafting/gathering is typical wow clone. but what was I expecting in a combat mmo? cosmetic items, transmutation stones and color dyes in a cash shop that couldve gone towards making a more interesting crafting system imo.. shame

    esport pvp... whatever, not my thing but i can see how people like it. takes away from what an mmorpg is trying to be imho.

    fake 3 faction pvp on a timer... meh. same as above

    Im tellin ya, the Dynamic Events are going to make or break this game. I for one think they will be the saving grace.

    Just gotta get into that beta!!!!

    Not really. I mean if you're going to use the same logic as above to trivialize other aspects of this game may as well say their dynamic quests are simply another form of public quests. May as well save you the hassle :P

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • VolkonVolkon Member UncommonPosts: 3,748

    OK, I have to admit it...

     

    This is one nice troll post. Well done OP.

    Oderint, dum metuant.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    Personally I would prefer if it had a sub. It's got such a big feature set they have to pay for it somehow, and I would prefer just pay a sub than get nickel and dimed by a cash shop and have to put up with play features that encourage cash shop usage.

    It will be a much mire expensive game to run than gw1 with it being a proper mmo rather than crpg
  • PuremallacePuremallace Member Posts: 1,856

    Well even I got to admit I never saw those two areas as the "WoW clone", but hey when you are grasping at straws you grab what you can. Here you go OP

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

    The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:


    1. Person A has position X.

    2. Person B disregards certain key points of X and instead presents the superficially similar position Y. Thus, Y is a resulting distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:

      1. Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position.

      2. Quoting an opponent's words out of context — i.e. choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent's actual intentions (see fallacy of quoting out of context).[2]

      3. Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person's arguments — thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.[1]

      4. Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.

      5. Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.

    3. Person B attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.

    ^ This sums up alot of GW2 debates I have seen so far

  • cali59cali59 Member Posts: 1,634

    I'm kind of amazed there wasn't a reference to the Asura in the OP.

    "Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true – you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007

  • RizelStarRizelStar Member UncommonPosts: 2,773
    Originally posted by Teala

    I think people need to realize that this game is a themepark game with a twist.    It is not the next coming of gaming Jesus...it is just another themepark.
    If any game will shake up the genre it will be ArcheAge.   It is the only game in the future that will put this genre back on the path it should have been going since the time of UO.  

     

    lmao but is GW2 a wow 2.0?

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • Shroom_MageShroom_Mage Member UncommonPosts: 863

    1. Hahaha, look at this guy. Just look at him. He thinks WoW has a harsh death penalty. GW2 has a far less harsh penalty than WoW, and he still thinks it's ridiculous. What a joke. Previously, GW2 has almost no penalty for death at all. I was relieved when I saw they finally added one, lenient as it may be.

    2. The combat hasn't changed at all, so if you think it's a problem, then sorry, find a new game. It's the same as it's always been. I watched a lot of videos. Boss-like enemies take a lot of hits. They're supposed to. They're bosses. Other enemies in the same areas tend to die almost instantly. Enemies vary in toughness. This is working as intended. The game looks challenging. If you were hoping for a cakewalk, then I don't know what to tell you. They said later enemies will have more advanced tactics, but those enemies might not even be in the game yet. Calm down.

    Finally, what a joke poll.

    "I think they should change it because it's bad."
    "I don't mind it being bad."

    Yeah, guy, don't put leading answers or anything. Wait, were you genuinely implying that gold sinks are bad?

    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

  • itgrowlsitgrowls Member Posts: 2,951

    Originally posted by Diovidius

    Originally posted by DannyGlover

    cosmetic items, transmutation stones and color dyes in a cash shop that couldve gone towards making a more interesting crafting system imo.. shame

    Considering this game is Buy to Play, how exactly do you expect Anet to make money?

    Okay i have comment on crafting because i've seen WAY to many misinformation posts about this. The crafting in this game is easy and simple, no "speshal" items needed to make blues, i dunno what epics require yet but i'm sure it will be killing a step above regular mobs or possibly full on elites in the game to get items needed to combine to make epics but  i have to say that the videos i've seen including this one....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3A2xsvIMQc&feature=player_embedded

    that it doesn't require much to get relatively good gear.

    seriously folks if you are going to make broad statements about the game at least do your homework (aimed at DannyGlover not Diovidius btw) Just because you can't dominate the AH with gathered items doesn't mean the crafting system is bad.

  • RizelStarRizelStar Member UncommonPosts: 2,773
    Originally posted by DannyGlover

    The combat looks similar to wow except for the barrel rolls. But I know from playing too may fighting games that you never really know how a game feels until you play it for yourself. Over the top flashy effects have typically been an indicator of shallow gameplay in other games. But I will judge this one on its own merits when I finally get my hands on it.crafting/gathering is typical wow clone. but what was I expecting in a combat mmo? cosmetic items, transmutation stones and color dyes in a cash shop that couldve gone towards making a more interesting crafting system imo.. shameesport pvp... whatever, not my thing but i can see how people like it. takes away from what an mmorpg is trying to be imho.fake 3 faction pvp on a timer... meh. same as aboveIm tellin ya, the Dynamic Events are going to make or break this game. I for one think they will be the saving grace. Just gotta get into that beta!!!!

     

    This has to be sarcasm lol

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • TealaTeala Member RarePosts: 7,627

    Originally posted by RizelStar

    Originally posted by Teala

    I think people need to realize that this game is a themepark game with a twist.    It is not the next coming of gaming Jesus...it is just another themepark.

    If any game will shake up the genre it will be ArcheAge.   It is the only game in the future that will put this genre back on the path it should have been going since the time of UO.  

     

    lmao but is GW2 a wow 2.0?

    It is a themepark.

  • Zeus.CMZeus.CM Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,788

    oh the ignorance.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,686

    Dream chaser what have you been smoking?

     

    I think you are seeing ghosts... and ghosts dont excist in the real world. Arenanet has implemented these things based on feedback from their testers, and i wholeheartly agree with these changes, they make for a better world.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • itgrowlsitgrowls Member Posts: 2,951

    Originally posted by Teala

    Originally posted by RizelStar

    Originally posted by Teala  
    lmao but is GW2 a wow 2.0?

    It is a themepark.

    It's a themebox, not a themepark because it has a seriously large number of sandbox features in a themepark game to be labeled in such a limited fashion.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by RizelStar

    Originally posted by Teala

    I think people need to realize that this game is a themepark game with a twist.    It is not the next coming of gaming Jesus...it is just another themepark.

    If any game will shake up the genre it will be ArcheAge.   It is the only game in the future that will put this genre back on the path it should have been going since the time of UO.  

     

    lmao but is GW2 a wow 2.0?

    Do you even have to ask? It could be the second coming of WOW in that they've taken popular idea's from the MMO and have made them "better" in some areas, as well as have put it all in a neat package that may hit big with the fans of the genre, other than that, no...

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SomsbalSomsbal Member Posts: 222

    Originally posted by cali59

    I'm kind of amazed there wasn't a reference to the Asura in the OP.

    I was disappointed aswell

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by itgrowls

    Originally posted by Teala

    Originally posted by RizelStar

    Originally posted by Teala  
    lmao but is GW2 a wow 2.0?

    It is a themepark.

    It's a themebox, not a themepark because it has a seriously large number of sandbox features in a themepark game to be labeled in such a limited fashion.

    What sandbox features are those?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SkymourneSkymourne Member UncommonPosts: 380

    Originally posted by Dream_Chaser

    I never thought I'd actually say something like that, but I feel betrayed, and people need to understand fully what's going on as we approach release. ArenaNet are slipping things in which is making the game more and more like WoW.

    I don't know why they're doing that.

    I mean, that's appealing to the WoW crowd, and down that road lays madness and bankruptcy. And if they continue this way then they're going to end up with a flop on their hands, likely to the magnitude of Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, or even worse.

    So, two things have come up, that people need to know about.

    1. The death penalty has become ridiculous.

    Okay, so if you die, this happens...

    1. You're downed, but every time you're downed after you lose 25% of your downed bar permanently until you're forced to 'die.' So, once you're downed you only get 75% of it next time, then 50%, then 25%, and after that you're forced to 'die.'

    2. When you're forced to die, you have to pay a sum of gold to teleport to the nearest waypoint.

    3. When you're forced to die, a piece of armour breaks.

    4. When all your armour breaks, you have to pay again to repair all of your armour.

    5. When the above death occurs, you have to pay for the teleport and for the armour repair.

    If that's not WoW-like then what is?

    2. The battles are looking more and more like WoW.

    One thing the press has been noticing in recent builds is that not only is the AI pretty dumb, but it takes forever to kill a single mob. This means that you can have five guys beating on one mob and it can take over two minutes to kill. Does this sound familiar? Yeah, WoW.

    Now, the approach I hoped they'd take would be more like CO or Guild Wars 1. Where you have a large group of foes, and some are responsible for healing, some are responsible for debuffing, and when you kill most of the group, the rest will run off to get help. This makes fights dynamic and interesting, because if you don't kill the right guys first, and if you don't kill the guys who run off for reinforcements, things can turn bad.

    But if your situational awareness is good, and you know what you're doing, and you're skilled at the game, then the fights can go pretty quick until a new mob appears that tosses a new style of AI into the mix. That's the kind of play I was hoping for. But that's not what the journalists are seeing in Guild Wars 2.

    So, instead of the CO or GW1 approach, it feels a lot like WoW. Many journalists have said this.

    My conclusion.

    ArenaNet needs to take a step back from this more WoW-like path they've taken and delay the game just a bit longer. If they release it in its current state, which is very WoW-like, then it's going to be a massive flop. WoW players will only leave WoW for about a month before they either go back to WoW or TOR (and I've heard of many TOR players getting fed up with that and going back to WoW already). It's going to go the same way as Warhammer Online. It doesn't even have a big Intellectual Property hook like TOR does.

    So, who am I? Am I just some troll? Ha. I'm sure some will think so. I'm a very passionate person who cares about the state of gaming. I'm one of those "I actually give a shit." people. A rare breed. I've been around for a long time, I've been following Guild Wars 2 since it was announced in magazines back in '05. I've been here. I've been watching. And you've likely seen me praising GW2 in the past.

    I like a lot of the promises that ArenaNet have made. I've praised them for those promises.

    But I feel a little betrayed, because it seems more and more that ArenaNet are pulling a Blizzard and going back on all of their promises to make the game they think will sell. They've turned to greed, but if they're not careful then that greed will in turn turn to bankruptcy. I'm hoping that they'll realise this and step back. I just think they need to take a look at what they're doing and go back to the drawing board, to make fights more interesting without simply being timesinks, and to make death penalties interesting without making them grindy time/gold sinks.

    not only are your assertions rediculous, but along with the "many journalists that have said this", i'd love some links please...you know, to back up you set of statements here.  I find the entire post ludicrous and pretentious.  

  • VolkonVolkon Member UncommonPosts: 3,748

    Originally posted by Teala

    Originally posted by RizelStar

    Originally posted by Teala

    I think people need to realize that this game is a themepark game with a twist.    It is not the next coming of gaming Jesus...it is just another themepark.

    If any game will shake up the genre it will be ArcheAge.   It is the only game in the future that will put this genre back on the path it should have been going since the time of UO.  

     

    lmao but is GW2 a wow 2.0?

    It is a themepark.

    It's a loose themepark though... you're not on rails the way SWTOR is for example. You can level your way up to 80, dive into WvW and never leave, all that without ever following the story to it's end.

     

    ArcheAge may be interesting... something to compete with Eve Online for that sandbox crowd. It'll hardly be revolutionary, but it will be refreshing in it's own right.

    Oderint, dum metuant.

  • RizelStarRizelStar Member UncommonPosts: 2,773
    Originally posted by Teala


    Originally posted by RizelStar


    Originally posted by Teala

    I think people need to realize that this game is a themepark game with a twist.    It is not the next coming of gaming Jesus...it is just another themepark.
    If any game will shake up the genre it will be ArcheAge.   It is the only game in the future that will put this genre back on the path it should have been going since the time of UO.  

     

    lmao but is GW2 a wow 2.0?

    It is a themepark.

     

    ok but is it wow 2.0? I'm going to keep repeating this I don't think no one here is saying its not a theme park that so happens to be far more open to where it's a box style. I am only curious about the wow 2.0

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • TealaTeala Member RarePosts: 7,627

    Originally posted by itgrowls

    Originally posted by Teala

    Originally posted by RizelStar

    Originally posted by Teala  
    lmao but is GW2 a wow 2.0?

    It is a themepark.

    It's a themebox, not a themepark because it has a seriously large number of sandbox features in a themepark game to be labeled in such a limited fashion.

    So what features does this game have that make it more than a themepark?  Is ther housing?  Can you have mounts?  Can you tame pets?  Can you grow crops?  How is resource gathering done?   What is the crafting like in this game? 

    Tell me what features give this game any resemblance to a sandbox game.

This discussion has been closed.