What draws people that don't like RPG mechanics into playing MMORPGs?

Larsa

I'm confused.

Since years I've got the impression that more and more people that don't like RPG mechanics are playing MMORPGs. Looks strange to me, people chosing to play a genre although they don't like the mechanics of it, like slow character progression and levelling up for example.

Now, I can understand that many people don't like RPG mechanics, that's fine, we're all here for our enjoyment, our fun, because it's our hobby, whatever floats your boat. I'm not interested to hear why you don't like RPG mechanics, many threads have been made about it and it's a given that many people don't like the time investment, don't like the slow progression curve, don't like that character skill matters as much or even more than player skill. That's all understood and fine.

But one thing I do not understand: what is it then that draws people to MMORPGs although they don't like the RPG part of it? What is it that draws people to MMOs in general? Aren't there gazillions of other multiplayer games around, in the FPS, DOTA, MOBA genre or whatever the correct acronym is these days? Let's be honest, many of the current MMORPGs have so small instances and battlefields that they almost play like they're a lobby game where you sit in a town and get whisked away into an instance for your gameplay anyway. Nothing massive multiplayer about that I would say.

So, what is the draw then, why do people that dislike RPG mechanics play an MMORPG?

Purutzil

Funny enough, the RPG features. Seriously, its a huge reason why people play MMOs along with the community. Theres a reason why a lot of games are being released with soft versions of this (Shooters having a 'leveling' system giving perks as you gain levels) no matter how much people claim otherwise, they like gaining something out of playing.

RefMinor

Originally posted by Larsa

I'm confused.
Since years I've got the impression that more and more people that don't like RPG mechanics are playing MMORPGs. Looks strange to me, people chosing to play a genre although they don't like the mechanics of it, like slow character progression and levelling up for example.
Now, I can understand that many people don't like RPG mechanics, that's fine, we're all here for our enjoyment, our fun, because it's our hobby, whatever floats your boat. I'm not interested to hear why you don't like RPG mechanics, many threads have been made about it and it's a given that many people don't like the time investment, don't like the slow progression curve, don't like that character skill matters as much or even more than player skill. That's all understood and fine.
But one thing I do not understand: what is it then that draws people to MMORPGs although they don't like the RPG part of it? What is it that draws people to MMOs in general? Aren't there gazillions of other multiplayer games around, in the FPS, DOTA, MOBA genre or whatever the correct acronym is these days? Let's be honest, many of the current MMORPGs have so small instances and battlefields that they almost play like they're a lobby game where you sit in a town and get whisked away into an instance for your gameplay anyway. Nothing massive multiplayer about that I would say.
So, what is the draw then, why do people that dislike RPG mechanics play an MMORPG?

 

They have the attitude for FPS but not the skill, put them in a persistent world where you have to use social skills to gain allies and they cry for arenas.

musicmann

MMORPG's need to return to the time when logging in meant something more than combat and watching a little bar rise and finally go ding. RPG mechanics have become nothing more than a LFG tool to get together and do the same content over and over add nausium. I honestly believe that the games that have come out in the past few yrs are nothing more than SPG with coop feature's and have nothing in common with mmorpg's at all.

Emwyn

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Larsa

I'm confused.

Since years I've got the impression that more and more people that don't like RPG mechanics are playing MMORPGs. Looks strange to me, people chosing to play a genre although they don't like the mechanics of it, like slow character progression and levelling up for example.

Now, I can understand that many people don't like RPG mechanics, that's fine, we're all here for our enjoyment, our fun, because it's our hobby, whatever floats your boat. I'm not interested to hear why you don't like RPG mechanics, many threads have been made about it and it's a given that many people don't like the time investment, don't like the slow progression curve, don't like that character skill matters as much or even more than player skill. That's all understood and fine.

But one thing I do not understand: what is it then that draws people to MMORPGs although they don't like the RPG part of it? What is it that draws people to MMOs in general? Aren't there gazillions of other multiplayer games around, in the FPS, DOTA, MOBA genre or whatever the correct acronym is these days? Let's be honest, many of the current MMORPGs have so small instances and battlefields that they almost play like they're a lobby game where you sit in a town and get whisked away into an instance for your gameplay anyway. Nothing massive multiplayer about that I would say.

So, what is the draw then, why do people that dislike RPG mechanics play an MMORPG?

 

They have the attitude for FPS but not the skill, put them in a persistent world where you have to use social skills to gain allies and they cry for arenas.

Truth. For some, not all, I think you could drop them into a game with zero lore, zero story just a goal in their mind to get from point a: beginning level to point b: max level. THIS is why games have become disposable. They get there, they get bored, they move on. I am no longer even sure it's the developers fault. It's like gamers want MMORPG-Light. Light on the RPG, hell you can leave it out in fact! Just get me to the good stuff until I get bored. Catering to this mindset with boosters to help them get there is a business model I don't understand unless you keep adding more and better boosters and a reason to need them. It is a terrible recipe for longevity. And for the people that DO enjoy the lore, and want to continue in the game, they are now sitting in yesterday's flavour of the month and probably already the game studio is looking for the next "hit" to satisfy the masses and your game is forgotten. Disposable.

nariusseldon

Originally posted by Larsa

I'm confused.

Since years I've got the impression that more and more people that don't like RPG mechanics are playing MMORPGs. Looks strange to me, people chosing to play a genre although they don't like the mechanics of it, like slow character progression and levelling up for example.

Now, I can understand that many people don't like RPG mechanics, that's fine, we're all here for our enjoyment, our fun, because it's our hobby, whatever floats your boat. I'm not interested to hear why you don't like RPG mechanics, many threads have been made about it and it's a given that many people don't like the time investment, don't like the slow progression curve, don't like that character skill matters as much or even more than player skill. That's all understood and fine.

But one thing I do not understand: what is it then that draws people to MMORPGs although they don't like the RPG part of it? What is it that draws people to MMOs in general? Aren't there gazillions of other multiplayer games around, in the FPS, DOTA, MOBA genre or whatever the correct acronym is these days? Let's be honest, many of the current MMORPGs have so small instances and battlefields that they almost play like they're a lobby game where you sit in a town and get whisked away into an instance for your gameplay anyway. Nothing massive multiplayer about that I would say.

So, what is the draw then, why do people that dislike RPG mechanics play an MMORPG?

 

Do you have any evidence that people who do not like RPG mechanics are playing MMORPGs?

Plus, SLOW progression is NOT a RPG mechanics. Many single player RPG allows you to level fast.

meddyck

There isn't some definition of RPG mechanics that was handed down by God on a stone tablet that every player must either like or dislike. You like how a certain game is implemented... or you don't. If you don't like it, you either don't play it or, if there are other things about the game you like, you keep playing in spite of your dissatisfaction with the speed of leveling, amount of gear grinding, or whatever and lobby the devs to make those aspects of the game more enjoyable. That's how it works in MMOs and in basically everything else in life.

dave6660

I wish I knew the answer.

I wonder if other genre of games have the same problem.  Like somebody playing an FPS complains on the forums that he wants a better crafting system or he doesn't like first person view.  Are people playing sports games and want perma death of teams after they lose or maybe don't like that they keep score.  Are there people on Yahoo games who complain the queen is over powered in chess.

Four0Six

WoW had/has over 10 million subs, for a long time.

 

Many Many Many are sheep and will follow the lemings off the cliff.

MumboJumbo

Perhaps it's the mmorpgs that are the problem, often? I think Exponential Level Curve Grinds + Subscription = Filler Content + End-Game has diluted RPG a lot. There was a review of Spiral Knights and another mmo and the comment was: "Hey it's weird to be reviewing an mmo that's moment-to-moment fun! Er, it's weird that we're saying this about this 1 genre.."

ArenaNet's answer is/has been: Putting the "MMO" (Dynamic Events) and "RPG" (Personal Stories) back into MMORPG for themepark mmos which I think is a BIG STEP in the right direction. 

Also an over-representation of "always combat". In original PnP RPG - there was tons of chat, character building of NPCs and players and random stuff/inventiveness... eg *The hooded fellow in the corner gives you a slow scowl as he turns to leave the inn...* Hacking another orc in half only goes so far to change the world or explore it's finer details.

waynejr2

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Larsa

I'm confused.

Since years I've got the impression that more and more people that don't like RPG mechanics are playing MMORPGs. Looks strange to me, people chosing to play a genre although they don't like the mechanics of it, like slow character progression and levelling up for example.

Now, I can understand that many people don't like RPG mechanics, that's fine, we're all here for our enjoyment, our fun, because it's our hobby, whatever floats your boat. I'm not interested to hear why you don't like RPG mechanics, many threads have been made about it and it's a given that many people don't like the time investment, don't like the slow progression curve, don't like that character skill matters as much or even more than player skill. That's all understood and fine.

But one thing I do not understand: what is it then that draws people to MMORPGs although they don't like the RPG part of it? What is it that draws people to MMOs in general? Aren't there gazillions of other multiplayer games around, in the FPS, DOTA, MOBA genre or whatever the correct acronym is these days? Let's be honest, many of the current MMORPGs have so small instances and battlefields that they almost play like they're a lobby game where you sit in a town and get whisked away into an instance for your gameplay anyway. Nothing massive multiplayer about that I would say.

So, what is the draw then, why do people that dislike RPG mechanics play an MMORPG?

 

They have the attitude for FPS but not the skill, put them in a persistent world where you have to use social skills to gain allies and they cry for arenas.

It's sad to say but I think you are correct.

Castillle

What are RPG mechanics? o.O

AdamTM

Originally posted by Castillle

What are RPG mechanics? o.O

^ this

WilyWeasel

I agree..

 

PvP in an MMO should be secondary it should be about roles of charactors.. not PvP balance.

 

Go play CS or TF2.. dont ruin my MMORPG just cause you have no skillz

RefMinor

Originally posted by waynejr2


Originally posted by RefMinor


Originally posted by Larsa

I'm confused.
Since years I've got the impression that more and more people that don't like RPG mechanics are playing MMORPGs. Looks strange to me, people chosing to play a genre although they don't like the mechanics of it, like slow character progression and levelling up for example.
Now, I can understand that many people don't like RPG mechanics, that's fine, we're all here for our enjoyment, our fun, because it's our hobby, whatever floats your boat. I'm not interested to hear why you don't like RPG mechanics, many threads have been made about it and it's a given that many people don't like the time investment, don't like the slow progression curve, don't like that character skill matters as much or even more than player skill. That's all understood and fine.
But one thing I do not understand: what is it then that draws people to MMORPGs although they don't like the RPG part of it? What is it that draws people to MMOs in general? Aren't there gazillions of other multiplayer games around, in the FPS, DOTA, MOBA genre or whatever the correct acronym is these days? Let's be honest, many of the current MMORPGs have so small instances and battlefields that they almost play like they're a lobby game where you sit in a town and get whisked away into an instance for your gameplay anyway. Nothing massive multiplayer about that I would say.
So, what is the draw then, why do people that dislike RPG mechanics play an MMORPG?

 

They have the attitude for FPS but not the skill, put them in a persistent world where you have to use social skills to gain allies and they cry for arenas.

It's sad to say but I think you are correct.

 

Why is it sad that I am correct?

Konfess

Originally posted by Castillle

What are RPG mechanics? o.O

It is my opinion that RPG mechanics are:

1. 
   Tab Targeting & Skill / Spell Rotation (often referred to by FPS fans as face roll)
2. 
   Tiered Zone Progression and Questing (often referred to by FPS fans as theme park)
3. 
   Grouping to Take on Higher Level Mobs and Content.
4. 
   instead of soloing same level or lower content (ie I soloed level 20 boss at level 22)
5. 
   The Trinity, Tank, DPS, & Healer (as opposed to auto healing found in FPS & Cata.)
6. 
   Tiered Gear & Food Crafting. (As opposed to the gear terminal found in FPS games or w.e.)
7. 
   Buffing, Crowd Control, & Fear Spells.

Play or Watch a match of Gears of War, Halo, Call of Duty, or any such FPS and anything you notice missing from the game-play found in say UO, AO, EQ1&2, SWG Pre-CUNGE, Vanilla WoW, or any MMORPG can be added to the list.

 

WilyWeasel

Originally posted by Konfess

Originally posted by Castillle

What are RPG mechanics? o.O

It is my opinion that RPG mechanics are:

1. 
   Tab Targeting & Skill / Spell Rotation (often referred to by FPS fans as face roll)
2. 
   Tiered Zone Progression and Questing (often referred to by FPS fans as theme park)
3. 
   Grouping to Take on Higher Level Mobs and Content.
4. 
   instead of soloing same level or lower content (ie I soloed level 20 boss at level 22)
5. 
   The Trinity, Tank, DPS, & Healer (as opposed to auto healing found in FPS & Cata.)
6. 
   Tiered Gear & Food Crafting. (As opposed to the gear terminal found in FPS games or w.e.)
7. 
   Buffing, Crowd Control, & Fear Spells.

Play or Watch a match of Gears of War, Halo, Call of Duty, or any such FPS and anything you notice missing from the game-play found in say UO, AO, EQ1&2, SWG Pre-CUNGE, Vanilla WoW, or any MMORPG can be added to the list.

 

In theory role playing mechanics have nothing to do with rules, they are about story.

 

You role play a charactor, as in act the part, therefore the rules have to be flexable to allow the story to take priority.

 

If you ever Role play in a PnP game thats the DM's job.. There is no DM in MMORPG's, so in reality, RPG is a joke in computer games cause your role is limited to what skills you have not what your charactor can and cannot actually do

Kuinn

Big open world with lots of other players running around to interact with and get stuff done. You dont need a single "RPG feature" to achieve that.

Hurvart

I think action gamers should play action games. Nothing wrong with that. But RPG:s are different. Normally they will be tedious and boring if actiongamers try them. And sometimes to difficult. Because you will need to learn how to build a character and make the right choiches. Thats what makes RPG:s fun. And if you dont like it you are playing the wrong genre.

Sythion

Originally posted by Larsa

I'm confused.

Since years I've got the impression that more and more people that don't like RPG mechanics are playing MMORPGs. Looks strange to me, people chosing to play a genre although they don't like the mechanics of it, like slow character progression and levelling up for example.

[...]

So, what is the draw then, why do people that dislike RPG mechanics play an MMORPG?

First off, those aren't RPG mechanics. I move that you repost this under the title "What draws people that don't like tired, over-used mechanics made to intentionally extend gameplay time to up subscription fee/force the purchase of convenience items into playing MMORPGs."

Second, we see the genre becoming much more.

We're trying to clean up this !#@$hole that you've lived in, not destroy it.

AlBQuirky

---

Originally posted by Sythion

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Originally posted by Larsa
I'm confused.
Since years I've got the impression that more and more people that don't like RPG mechanics are playing MMORPGs. Looks strange to me, people chosing to play a genre although they don't like the mechanics of it, like slow character progression and levelling up for example.
[...]
So, what is the draw then, why do people that dislike RPG mechanics play an MMORPG?

---

First off, those aren't RPG mechanics. I move that you repost this under the title "What draws people that don't like tired, over-used mechanics made to intentionally extend gameplay time to up subscription fee/force the purchase of convenience items into playing MMORPGs."
Second, we see the genre becoming much more.
We're trying to clean up this !#@$hole that you've lived in, not destroy it.

---

Clean it up how? Streamlining start to finish? "Winning the game" in a matter of weeks?

Just like OP stated... Disposable games.

What is wrong with wanting to sub to a game for years on end? In my opinion, "your cleanup" is the cause for this current mess. Please leave *my* genre alone. I never ASKED for you to clean it up.

Your attitude reminds of the non-smoker in a workplace that HAS to take breaks in the smoker's break area, coughs, and complains, "It's too smoky in here!" MMORPGs were just fine until your kind decided they needed to be "cleaned up."

[EDIT]
I feel the need to ask again, Why play MMORPGs if you think it is a garbage filled genre?

Axehilt

Originally posted by WilyWeasel 

In theory role playing mechanics have nothing to do with rules, they are about story.

 You role play a charactor, as in act the part, therefore the rules have to be flexable to allow the story to take priority. 

If you ever Role play in a PnP game thats the DM's job.. There is no DM in MMORPG's, so in reality, RPG is a joke in computer games cause your role is limited to what skills you have not what your charactor can and cannot actually do

Well they're not just about story.  All videogame RPGs over the years have involved twitch-lite (or no-twitch) combat, story, and character/plot development.

Videogame RPGs have never been strongly about tabletop style role-playing.  When players mistake Videogame RPG and Tabletop RPG as the same concept, they end up with some truly bizarre expectations.  Same term ("RPG"), but pretty different meanings.

Pivotelite

The MMO part, the massive battles, group content in both PvE and PvP and excitement/drama/frustration that comes with playing a game with many people. 

 

A single-player RPG is fun for a while, but at most I get 60-80 hours out of them. In most MMOs I enjoy I'll get 60 days just because I can partake in these things with other players.

 

However I actually am not against progression, I think it is part of MMOs and something that makes you stay for a long time trying to become better than other players both in terms of skill and gear.

nariusseldon

Originally posted by Four0Six

WoW had/has over 10 million subs, for a long time.

 

Many Many Many are sheep and will follow the lemings off the cliff.

 

Or Blizzard made a very fun game and many many many are entertained.

Given Blizzard's track record of making very fun games, this is probably what happened.

nariusseldon

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Just like OP stated... Disposable games.

What is wrong with wanting to sub to a game for years on end? In my opinion, "your cleanup" is the cause for this current mess. Please leave *my* genre alone. I never ASKED for you to clean it up.

 

And what is wrong with wanting to play many games, some for a while?

It is NOT *your* genre. You have no claim to it. I have as much right to vote with my dollars of what *i* like as you.

AlBQuirky

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Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Just like OP stated... Disposable games.
What is wrong with wanting to sub to a game for years on end? In my opinion, "your cleanup" is the cause for this current mess. Please leave *my* genre alone. I never ASKED for you to clean it up.

 
And what is wrong with wanting to play many games, some for a while?
It is NOT *your* genre. You have no claim to it. I have as much right to vote with my dollars of what *i* like as you.

---

I was possibly here before you and enjoyed MY genre until the FPS crowd flooded it, thanks to WoW. Now, YOUR kind don't like the way the genre was and think it needs "improving." LEAVE IT ALONE, is all I am saying. Go play MMOAction games (DragonNest, Vindictus), Lobby based FPSs, MMORTS, what have you.

The logic confounds me. I understand if you don't like something, try to change it. But why change it if you really don't enjoy it? I don't like raisins in my cookies. I DON'T go restaurants and DEMAND they take the raisins out of their oatmeal RAISIN cookies. That's just silly.

I especially don't go to PvP forums and DEMAND that PvP be taken out of a game. I don't go to FPS game sites and DEMAND that there should be levels!

Still, I ask, WHY do you want to play MMORPGs if you don't like the genre?