The author of this post makes it out to sound like all Eve players or MMORPG players have said and done things just as bad as the Matanni has in the past. Stuff like saying "Go kill yourself"
Most MMORPG players dont say that crap. Have I called people a "d-bag" in MMOPG's before? Sure. Have I told them they are so bad that they need to uninstall or kill themselves IRL? No.
I played EVE from beta to about 3 months in. I was a miner, and I ended up losing interest in the game and quit. However I did play Darkfall Online for 6 months, which had many goonswarm players in it. And in both games I did not encounter as much nasty behavior as you claim there is.
Have you ever considered that maybe you are just surrounding yourself with those type of people? I don't think people should feel guilty for tearing Matanni down if they are a member of the MMORPG community who actually practice a virtue called Empathy.
Full loot MMORPG's are my favorite because the risk, reward, and loss are the most intense. Not because of the community behavior. Just because people enjoy the highs and lows of full loot pvp doesn't mean they are emotionally unrestrained and fly off at the handle and talk smack.
I understand that this is the EVE column and it just applies to EVE players, but I think you fail to realize how many players there are who have always conducted themselves in a respectable manner and are just sick and tired of the Mitanni gamer mentality. The e-sport, metagame, destroy your opponents inside AND outside the game, mentality.
Has anyone even bothered to find out if the guy crying even was suicidal, the most likely scenario is that he was just trying to save his ship, and did so in a really lame way, the only thing the Mittani did that was actually wrong was to broadcast this at the csm thing, if he'd put out the call to arms to pod the guy on a regular basis in game, that would have been fine, its even allowed, as you can wardec corps so that you can attack them in high sec. all this cyber bullying accusations is just totally lame, at no time was the guys real name even revealed, nor his address, or even if it was actually a guy, it may have been a girl after all, just because they gave some lame reason to plead for their ship (thats right folks this is all about pixels folks, at no time was anyone actually harmed beyond losing a few iskies), nothing the guy/girl said was probably true.
but to be on the safe side, if i ever see the guy i'll ask him.. in high sec at least.. in low sec or null.. i might not even bother asking. have to maintain a kill ratio after all
there is a simple rule in Eve, and that is, don't fly anything you can't afford to lose, at least outside of high sec.
lol still can't believe people are defending this guy. you know you guys are not representing the EVE community very well right? I have seen people bash the EVE community only to have people come out and say "oh you're wrong its a nice community"
then i see MANY EVE players coming out to justify this crap.
i stand by what i said in a previous thread, I hope EVE continues to thrive so it keeps the trash out of other games.
its not my job to defend anyone, but i have to wonder, why are people jumping to the defence of some idiot who made a fool of himself by pleading for mercy from someone from goonswarm.. he couldnt have been a noob, as you don't just happen to be in low sec or null sec without a whole bunch of warnings to the effect of, once past this point people will try to kill you, type of thing. of course, the average Eve player understands the risks and either accepts them or stays the hell out, and the rest, well, theres a whole raft of themepark games to hold their hands and show them what to do. Eve has the steepest learning curve of all games out there at the moment. Well, who the trash are is a matter of opinion, so don't be surprised if your put in the same category you so freely assign to others.
LOL - they try to kill you in Hi-sec if you appear to be a bot.
Has anyone even bothered to find out if the guy crying even was suicidal, the most likely scenario is that he was just trying to save his ship, and did so in a really lame way, the only thing the Mittani did that was actually wrong was to broadcast this at the csm thing, if he'd put out the call to arms to pod the guy on a regular basis in game, that would have been fine, its even allowed, as you can wardec corps so that you can attack them in high sec. all this cyber bullying accusations is just totally lame, at no time was the guys real name even revealed, nor his address, or even if it was actually a guy, it may have been a girl after all, just because they gave some lame reason to plead for their ship (thats right folks this is all about pixels folks, at no time was anyone actually harmed beyond losing a few iskies), nothing the guy/girl said was probably true.
but to be on the safe side, if i ever see the guy i'll ask him.. in high sec at least.. in low sec or null.. i might not even bother asking. have to maintain a kill ratio after all
there is a simple rule in Eve, and that is, don't fly anything you can't afford to lose, at least outside of high sec.
lol still can't believe people are defending this guy. you know you guys are not representing the EVE community very well right? I have seen people bash the EVE community only to have people come out and say "oh you're wrong its a nice community"
then i see MANY EVE players coming out to justify this crap.
i stand by what i said in a previous thread, I hope EVE continues to thrive so it keeps the trash out of other games.
its not my job to defend anyone, but i have to wonder, why are people jumping to the defence of some idiot who made a fool of himself by pleading for mercy from someone from goonswarm.. he couldnt have been a noob, as you don't just happen to be in low sec or null sec without a whole bunch of warnings to the effect of, once past this point people will try to kill you, type of thing. of course, the average Eve player understands the risks and either accepts them or stays the hell out, and the rest, well, theres a whole raft of themepark games to hold their hands and show them what to do. Eve has the steepest learning curve of all games out there at the moment. Well, who the trash are is a matter of opinion, so don't be surprised if your put in the same category you so freely assign to others.
-Ok , if your gonna reply read it, if your not gonna read it don't reply. -
You can steal, lie, and kill people in game.. don't tell them to f off when they threaten to kill themselves however....
What a bunch of BULL. You wanna kill yourself.... ok. What does that have to do with a guy playing a game... well he took your stuff (as the game intended) well maybe he should give it back. YEAh No more pvp in EVE, no more stealing, no more anything. Wouldn't want people killing themselves.
Hes a tip no one kills themselves because one person was mean to them , or because they got ganked, shit stolen, etc. They kill themselves because they want to (just like i want pancakes even though I am putting on weight and its not good for me, its their perception) and people who kill themselves have long histories detailing such events/feelings; not one guy making fun of someone else.
There are few exceptions such as drug use (rarely do ninjas pop out of trees and force you to take these with the extremely off chance it puts you in a state of mind where suicide is actionable), and mental breaks which are genetic/rare/unknown in cause. But they are not do to a external event per-say, as any mental health person will tell you (worth a pinch of salt), if it wasn't that it will be another thing later that sets them off. (This often causes many family members to struggle with feelings of responsibility, as they frequently blame themselves, when it would have happened, over split milk eventually).
Now there are patterns of abuse, etc. that can increase a person risk of suicide, but these don't include people on the internet making fun your your spin toward death. See the spin toward death part is already there. And its not the job of the everyone to stop others from killing themselves (Despite what a religious bible thumper may tell you, oh and people attempting to capitalize on someones misfortune or blame someone else; because you know I would hate for CCP to have to deal with the fact that their game OPENLY ALLOWS PLAYERS TO ROB OTHER PLAYERS OF IN GAME ITEMS THAT TAKES MUTIPLE PEOPLE YEARS OF REAL LIFE TIME TO AMASS.... nonono its HIS fault).
See how that works, its called figure pointing, next time lets be rational and look at the situation and reality of it (should I even call for it, will anyone answer?).
There ya go EVE is a game for people who wish to deal in realities. Lets not change this because one person decided to change their own.
This may seem callous, but its accurate. When did political correctness replace REALITY.
All this being said please if you wanna kill yourself, seek help; they have wonderful drugs now, they come out with new ones all the time. I have distant family members who wanna kill other people without them, and on them no issues. I know others who sign praises of the treatment they receive for their mental health issues and seen it turn around many relationships, too.
But you simply cannot prevent these action by banning speech or bullying, if anything it makes identifying behaviors harder and doesn't prepare such individuals to deal with conflict while/ before they become more sensitized. (Children are rarely suicidal pre-puberty, and up to their 20's remain low risk).
I also don't like how the elderly's rate are high often do to informed decisions on their part (I tend to let others judge for themselves, but i don't have the audacity to tell others whats best for them [if they are informed and have though on an issue]). Oh well, i guess that is another taboo topic. Note though, many of this age's groups suicides are at least contributed by chemical changes in the body, which often can be treated easily with supplements/replacements, thought it appropriate to mention this for anyone who knows someone in such a situation, lab work (extensive) can often indicate this (and in these cases are far more effective than “mood” pills will far less side effects).
Before people get on their high horse (because they have been told over and over about the evils of bullying) please do look into studies examining suicide that control for depression and such behaviors. You'll find no SSD and or no power. On top of that a question, was it the chicken or the egg?
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
its not my job to defend anyone, but i have to wonder, why are people jumping to the defence of some idiot who made a fool of himself by pleading for mercy from someone from goonswarm.. he couldnt have been a noob, as you don't just happen to be in low sec or null sec without a whole bunch of warnings to the effect of, once past this point people will try to kill you, type of thing. of course, the average Eve player understands the risks and either accepts them or stays the hell out, and the rest, well, theres a whole raft of themepark games to hold their hands and show them what to do. Eve has the steepest learning curve of all games out there at the moment. Well, who the trash are is a matter of opinion, so don't be surprised if your put in the same category you so freely assign to others.
Isn't the real issue that this person, out of game, called upon others to harrass a person who may have been mentally ill?
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its not my job to defend anyone, but i have to wonder, why are people jumping to the defence of some idiot who made a fool of himself by pleading for mercy from someone from goonswarm.. he couldnt have been a noob, as you don't just happen to be in low sec or null sec without a whole bunch of warnings to the effect of, once past this point people will try to kill you, type of thing. of course, the average Eve player understands the risks and either accepts them or stays the hell out, and the rest, well, theres a whole raft of themepark games to hold their hands and show them what to do. Eve has the steepest learning curve of all games out there at the moment. Well, who the trash are is a matter of opinion, so don't be surprised if your put in the same category you so freely assign to others.
Isn't the real issue that this person, out of game, called upon others to harrass a person who may have been mentally ill?
thats the only issue, that it was done outside of the game, and publicly, and i think it would be entirely wrong to suggest that the 'victim' was mentally ill, stupid perhaps, but not insane.. well clinically insane at least, actually pleading for mercy from goonswarm might be classed as an insane act.. but, it could just as easily have been any other Null sec alliance, null sec is heavily populated and sovereignty is an issue, unauthorised access to an alliances territory, usually has only one outcome, and its not normally being asked to leave politely...
- What a bunch of BULL. You wanna kill yourself.... ok. What does that have to do with a guy playing a game...
The issue is that someone took a point, the guy telling the goon he had suicidal thoughts, that as you yourself say has nothing to do with playing a game, and rather than just ignore it and continue to play the game and hitting the other guys in game assets using Internet spaceships, called the guys in game name out whilst being broadcast live on a CCP public platform and told people if they wanted to get him to kill himself to hit him in game. You tell me what the point was?
Eve breeds cyber bullies. Have yal played the game? All you do is gank unknown people.
The game is the game, when you confuse it with life you have a problem.
+1
I play EVE and i have never "ganked" anyone. But people who get butt hurt because there CHARACTER was killed in a game and call it cyber bullying need to play a different game or more importantly stop taking games so seriously.
I mean calling ganking cyber bullying really undermines the term that is actually very serious.
FACT - Alex (The Mitanni) was cyber bullied. He (AS IN A REAL LIFE PERSON) has gotten death threats and people have threatened to kill his dog. THIS IS SERIOUS
What goes on in EVE ONLINE is NOT SERIOUS
People need a REALITY CHECK
CAPS!
Edit - I am not defending him I am more argueing for the use of cyber bullying only in the context of REAL PEOPLE. If The Mitanni used the guys real name this would be totally different.
Playing: PO, EVE Waiting for: WoD Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
I felt the need to activate an account just to respond to this thread, inspite several years of just watching from the sidelines.
Number 1.
MMORPG.com- While this overall issue needs public awareness. EVE, CCP, The Mittani and Goons do not. Someone screwed up, the company took action. But now the person(s) responsible for all this are riding on a wave crest of infamy and are actually encouraging this behavior in the future and MMORPG is not helping. Frankly....Shame on you!
Number 2.
Expounding on my point from Number 1, References to EVE, The Wis, The Mittani and Goons need to be removed from this equation.
This could have been any online community/forum, The Victim could have been anyone anywhere and the forum moderators could have been any sponsor.
It boils down to Alex Gianturco misusing a platfor offered up by CCP, who ultimately acted on on the issue. End of story. This is not about the actions of The Mittani in the EVE world. This is about the actions of real person in the real world. And the victim is irrelevant. The actions speak for themself.
Totally agree with you about judging a person based on a fictional persona.
Lets look at what he did a real person though.
The guy enouraged others to harrass another person to make them comit suicide in real life.
So that makes him a pretty pathetic person at best, at worse an online bully with sociapathic issues and totally selfish view of participating in social activities.
Oh, and it seems he is more deserving of the "unable to tell the difference between real life and virtual" title then others if he brings that view out of the game and into real life.
You are ignoring context and intent.
For your interpretation of Alex's actions to be correct you have to assume that Alex believed that The Wis's threat was sincere and credible while I think it's fairly obvious that Alex thought The Wis was blowing so much smoke.
You are also ignoring context. Yes it happened in the "real world" however it happened on an alliance pannel at FAN FEST where there is by the very nature of the event a bluring of the lines separating the fantasy world of the game from real life. Add in copious amounts of alchohol to exacerbate this bluring (allong with their vision in general) and it becomes less clear that this was Alex the person speaking rather than The MIttani the evil space tyrant.
Next thing you'll be telling me is that all those Klingons at the Star Trek conventions think they are alien warriors in real life.
As I said it was a dumb thing to say, It was dumb because even though the odds of The Wis bieng full of shit were high the potential downside for him being serious in his suicidal thoughts should have been sufficient to have disuaded a rational person from pushing him to test the truth.
The key term here being rational.
I know it's popular to say "alchohol isn't an excuse" but it really is. Anyone with any real experience with alchohol or even a rudimentary understanding of brain chemistry knows that it really is an excuse for bad behavior.
Alchohol changes brain chemistry it litterally changes what kind of person you are. It lowers inhibitions (you know all those filters and controls that we normally apply to our behavior and actions) it clouds one's judgement so you do things like think "I'm ok to drive" when to any rational objective observer you are most certainly not in any condition to drive or think it's a good/funny idea to sic your alliance on some botter who threatened to kill himself.
Claiming to know the true nature of a person based on their behaviour while intoxicated is nonsense pop psychology. A persons true nature is made apparent when they are in full possession of their faculties not when their normal cognitive processes are degraded by external factors.
Alex has been playing a Villian in this game for years and this is the first and only incident I am aware of where he stepped over that line, if his true nature were as sociopathic as you claim it would show in a pattern of behavior.
The lack of such a pattern is a pretty damned clear indication to me that this incident was an abheration rather than a revealing of his true nature.
Eve breeds cyber bullies. Have yal played the game? All you do is gank unknown people.
The game is the game, when you confuse it with life you have a problem.
+1
I play EVE and i have never "ganked" anyone. But people who get butt hurt because there CHARACTER was killed in a game and call it cyber bullying need to play a different game or more importantly stop taking games so seriously.
I mean calling ganking cyber bullying really undermines the term that is actually very serious.
FACT - The Mitanni was cyber bullied. He (AS IN A REAL LIFE PERSON) has gotten death threats and people have threatened to kill his dog. THIS IS SERIOUS
What goes on in EVE ONLINE is NOT SERIOUS
Peopel need a REALITY CHECK
CAPS!
NO ONE is saying anything about ganking, most peoples problem has to stem from this douchebag coming on "stage" at a party and telling others to try and get someone to commit suicide. FACT
like someone else said if mittani killed the guy over and over and over and the guy killed himself i would be totally on the EVE players side, saying if you can't take the ganking you shouldn't be playing on a FFA PVP game. however when Mittani came out at the convention and told people this guys ingame name and said they might be able to get him to commit suicide ... thats what i have a problem with.
One thing for sure. This has convinced me never to try out EvE. I'm interested in sandbox's but I have no interest in a game that rewards people for behaving like a@#$hats and meta-gamming, no thanks.
What a bunch of BULL. You wanna kill yourself.... ok. What does that have to do with a guy playing a game...
The issue is that someone took a point, the guy telling the goon he had suicidal thoughts, that as you yourself say has nothing to do with playing a game, and rather than just ignore it and continue to play the game and hitting the other guys in game assets using Internet spaceships, called the guys in game name out whilst being broadcast live on a CCP public platform and told people if they wanted to get him to kill himself to hit him in game. You tell me what the point was?
Yeah you wrong. You might not want to be but you are.
Guy 1 is MENTALLY UNSTABLE.
gUY 2'S JOB /DUTY IS NOT THE KEPPER OF GUY 1.
Guy 1 wants to do whatever in EVE , he gets caught / begs using im am gonna kill myself if you kill me.
Guy 2 .. too bad shut the f up, no special treatment.
Guy 1 no really i will
Guy 2 hey everyone kill this xxxxx whever you see him for trying to blackmail my ass into not killing him with threat of suicide.
.. yeah totally guy 2's fault .
Come down to earth. If this is the standard then even should remove all action able to upset other players from the game. I mean if you really wanted not to upset the person planning to kill themselves.
Guy 2 doesn't need to care and shouldn't , i mean if he should i should be able to walk up to your house and say let me take you tv or ill kill myself. Your wife? Your dog? I mean you wouldn't want me to kill myself, would you? In this case it is at least obvious that i am imbalanced, in This situation in EVE there is no way anyone could have know or should have know.
Don't kill my lvlv 100 orc in wow or ill kill myself. Get a grip, this is BULL.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
its not my job to defend anyone, but i have to wonder, why are people jumping to the defence of some idiot who made a fool of himself by pleading for mercy from someone from goonswarm.. he couldnt have been a noob, as you don't just happen to be in low sec or null sec without a whole bunch of warnings to the effect of, once past this point people will try to kill you, type of thing. of course, the average Eve player understands the risks and either accepts them or stays the hell out, and the rest, well, theres a whole raft of themepark games to hold their hands and show them what to do. Eve has the steepest learning curve of all games out there at the moment. Well, who the trash are is a matter of opinion, so don't be surprised if your put in the same category you so freely assign to others.
Knowing that the ganked player (a.k.a. "some idiot" in your post) was suicidal, The Mittani encouraged other players to take actions that would encourage the player's actual, real-life suicide. This really has nothing to do with in-game events--no one, under any circumstances, should try to hasten another person's real-life death.
- What a bunch of BULL. You wanna kill yourself.... ok. What does that have to do with a guy playing a game...
The issue is that someone took a point, the guy telling the goon he had suicidal thoughts, that as you yourself say has nothing to do with playing a game, and rather than just ignore it and continue to play the game and hitting the other guys in game assets using Internet spaceships, called the guys in game name out whilst being broadcast live on a CCP public platform and told people if they wanted to get him to kill himself to hit him in game. You tell me what the point was?
Yeah you wrong. You might not want to be but you are.
Guy 1 is MENTALLY UNSTABLE.
gUY 2'S JOB /DUTY IS NOT THE KEPPER OF GUY 1.
Guy 1 wants to do whatever in EVE , he gets caught / begs using im am gonna kill myself if you kill me.
Guy 2 .. too bad shut the f up, no special treatment.
Guy 1 no really i will
Guy 2 hey everyone kill this xxxxx whever you see him for trying to blackmail my ass into not killing him with threat of suicide.
.. yeah totally guy 2's fault .
Come down to earth. If this is the standard then even should remove all action able to upset other players from the game. I mean if you really wanted not to upset the person planning to kill themselves.
Guy 2 doesn't need to care and shouldn't , i mean if he should i should be able to walk up to your house and say let me take you tv or ill kill myself. Your wife? Your dog? I mean you wouldn't want me to kill myself, would you? In this case it is at least obvious that i am imbalanced, in This situation in EVE there is no way anyone could have know or should have know.
Don't kill my lvlv 100 orc in wow or ill kill myself. Get a grip, this is BULL.
Eve breeds cyber bullies. Have yal played the game? All you do is gank unknown people.
The game is the game, when you confuse it with life you have a problem.
+1
I play EVE and i have never "ganked" anyone. But people who get butt hurt because there CHARACTER was killed in a game and call it cyber bullying need to play a different game or more importantly stop taking games so seriously.
I mean calling ganking cyber bullying really undermines the term that is actually very serious.
FACT - Alex (The Mitanni) was cyber bullied. He (AS IN A REAL LIFE PERSON) has gotten death threats and people have threatened to kill his dog. THIS IS SERIOUS
What goes on in EVE ONLINE is NOT SERIOUS
People need a REALITY CHECK
CAPS!
Edit - I am not defending him I am more argueing for the use of cyber bullying only in the context of REAL PEOPLE. If The Mitanni used the guys real name this would be totally different.
This is actually why people are saying that the game needs to be removed from this.
What's happening is that Alex Gianturco is reaping from the actions sewn by Alex Gianturco.
What is NOT happening is that Alex Gianturco is reaping from the actions sewn by The Mittani.
Somethat that, it seems, Mr. Gianturco has some difficulty establishing the difference in.
Comments
The author of this post makes it out to sound like all Eve players or MMORPG players have said and done things just as bad as the Matanni has in the past. Stuff like saying "Go kill yourself"
Most MMORPG players dont say that crap. Have I called people a "d-bag" in MMOPG's before? Sure. Have I told them they are so bad that they need to uninstall or kill themselves IRL? No.
I played EVE from beta to about 3 months in. I was a miner, and I ended up losing interest in the game and quit. However I did play Darkfall Online for 6 months, which had many goonswarm players in it. And in both games I did not encounter as much nasty behavior as you claim there is.
Have you ever considered that maybe you are just surrounding yourself with those type of people? I don't think people should feel guilty for tearing Matanni down if they are a member of the MMORPG community who actually practice a virtue called Empathy.
Full loot MMORPG's are my favorite because the risk, reward, and loss are the most intense. Not because of the community behavior. Just because people enjoy the highs and lows of full loot pvp doesn't mean they are emotionally unrestrained and fly off at the handle and talk smack.
I understand that this is the EVE column and it just applies to EVE players, but I think you fail to realize how many players there are who have always conducted themselves in a respectable manner and are just sick and tired of the Mitanni gamer mentality. The e-sport, metagame, destroy your opponents inside AND outside the game, mentality.
LOL - they try to kill you in Hi-sec if you appear to be a bot.
Currently bored with MMO's.
wow really? please stay in EVE.
It's sad to think that one of EVE's "legends" is such a douchebag.
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You can steal, lie, and kill people in game.. don't tell them to f off when they threaten to kill themselves however....
What a bunch of BULL. You wanna kill yourself.... ok. What does that have to do with a guy playing a game... well he took your stuff (as the game intended) well maybe he should give it back. YEAh No more pvp in EVE, no more stealing, no more anything. Wouldn't want people killing themselves.
Hes a tip no one kills themselves because one person was mean to them , or because they got ganked, shit stolen, etc. They kill themselves because they want to (just like i want pancakes even though I am putting on weight and its not good for me, its their perception) and people who kill themselves have long histories detailing such events/feelings; not one guy making fun of someone else.
There are few exceptions such as drug use (rarely do ninjas pop out of trees and force you to take these with the extremely off chance it puts you in a state of mind where suicide is actionable), and mental breaks which are genetic/rare/unknown in cause. But they are not do to a external event per-say, as any mental health person will tell you (worth a pinch of salt), if it wasn't that it will be another thing later that sets them off. (This often causes many family members to struggle with feelings of responsibility, as they frequently blame themselves, when it would have happened, over split milk eventually).
Now there are patterns of abuse, etc. that can increase a person risk of suicide, but these don't include people on the internet making fun your your spin toward death. See the spin toward death part is already there. And its not the job of the everyone to stop others from killing themselves (Despite what a religious bible thumper may tell you, oh and people attempting to capitalize on someones misfortune or blame someone else; because you know I would hate for CCP to have to deal with the fact that their game OPENLY ALLOWS PLAYERS TO ROB OTHER PLAYERS OF IN GAME ITEMS THAT TAKES MUTIPLE PEOPLE YEARS OF REAL LIFE TIME TO AMASS.... nonono its HIS fault).
See how that works, its called figure pointing, next time lets be rational and look at the situation and reality of it (should I even call for it, will anyone answer?).
There ya go EVE is a game for people who wish to deal in realities. Lets not change this because one person decided to change their own.
This may seem callous, but its accurate. When did political correctness replace REALITY.
All this being said please if you wanna kill yourself, seek help; they have wonderful drugs now, they come out with new ones all the time. I have distant family members who wanna kill other people without them, and on them no issues. I know others who sign praises of the treatment they receive for their mental health issues and seen it turn around many relationships, too.
But you simply cannot prevent these action by banning speech or bullying, if anything it makes identifying behaviors harder and doesn't prepare such individuals to deal with conflict while/ before they become more sensitized. (Children are rarely suicidal pre-puberty, and up to their 20's remain low risk).
I also don't like how the elderly's rate are high often do to informed decisions on their part (I tend to let others judge for themselves, but i don't have the audacity to tell others whats best for them [if they are informed and have though on an issue]). Oh well, i guess that is another taboo topic. Note though, many of this age's groups suicides are at least contributed by chemical changes in the body, which often can be treated easily with supplements/replacements, thought it appropriate to mention this for anyone who knows someone in such a situation, lab work (extensive) can often indicate this (and in these cases are far more effective than “mood” pills will far less side effects).
Before people get on their high horse (because they have been told over and over about the evils of bullying) please do look into studies examining suicide that control for depression and such behaviors. You'll find no SSD and or no power. On top of that a question, was it the chicken or the egg?
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Isn't the real issue that this person, out of game, called upon others to harrass a person who may have been mentally ill?
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being drunk doesn't absolve someone from anything you should know that.
beat the crap out of someone and try to claim being drunk as a defense ... see how far that gets you.
I'll bet the Wis is getting ganked left and right now that he is famous for being a target. The last thing that suicidals need is attention.
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I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
its even more sad that many EVE players are defending this douchebag.
yeah now only if some douchebag didn't say his name in a public party. if he does commit suicide i hope Mittani is held responsible.
thats the only issue, that it was done outside of the game, and publicly, and i think it would be entirely wrong to suggest that the 'victim' was mentally ill, stupid perhaps, but not insane.. well clinically insane at least, actually pleading for mercy from goonswarm might be classed as an insane act.. but, it could just as easily have been any other Null sec alliance, null sec is heavily populated and sovereignty is an issue, unauthorised access to an alliances territory, usually has only one outcome, and its not normally being asked to leave politely...
The issue is that someone took a point, the guy telling the goon he had suicidal thoughts, that as you yourself say has nothing to do with playing a game, and rather than just ignore it and continue to play the game and hitting the other guys in game assets using Internet spaceships, called the guys in game name out whilst being broadcast live on a CCP public platform and told people if they wanted to get him to kill himself to hit him in game. You tell me what the point was?Pity he wasnt charged and arrested irl, that guy deserves nothing good happening to him
+1
I play EVE and i have never "ganked" anyone. But people who get butt hurt because there CHARACTER was killed in a game and call it cyber bullying need to play a different game or more importantly stop taking games so seriously.
I mean calling ganking cyber bullying really undermines the term that is actually very serious.
FACT - Alex (The Mitanni) was cyber bullied. He (AS IN A REAL LIFE PERSON) has gotten death threats and people have threatened to kill his dog. THIS IS SERIOUS
What goes on in EVE ONLINE is NOT SERIOUS
People need a REALITY CHECK
CAPS!
Edit - I am not defending him I am more argueing for the use of cyber bullying only in the context of REAL PEOPLE. If The Mitanni used the guys real name this would be totally different.
Playing: PO, EVE
Waiting for: WoD
Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO
Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
I felt the need to activate an account just to respond to this thread, inspite several years of just watching from the sidelines.
Number 1.
MMORPG.com- While this overall issue needs public awareness. EVE, CCP, The Mittani and Goons do not. Someone screwed up, the company took action. But now the person(s) responsible for all this are riding on a wave crest of infamy and are actually encouraging this behavior in the future and MMORPG is not helping. Frankly....Shame on you!
Number 2.
Expounding on my point from Number 1, References to EVE, The Wis, The Mittani and Goons need to be removed from this equation.
This could have been any online community/forum, The Victim could have been anyone anywhere and the forum moderators could have been any sponsor.
It boils down to Alex Gianturco misusing a platfor offered up by CCP, who ultimately acted on on the issue. End of story. This is not about the actions of The Mittani in the EVE world. This is about the actions of real person in the real world. And the victim is irrelevant. The actions speak for themself.
Welcome to MMORPG.comYou are ignoring context and intent.
For your interpretation of Alex's actions to be correct you have to assume that Alex believed that The Wis's threat was sincere and credible while I think it's fairly obvious that Alex thought The Wis was blowing so much smoke.
You are also ignoring context. Yes it happened in the "real world" however it happened on an alliance pannel at FAN FEST where there is by the very nature of the event a bluring of the lines separating the fantasy world of the game from real life. Add in copious amounts of alchohol to exacerbate this bluring (allong with their vision in general) and it becomes less clear that this was Alex the person speaking rather than The MIttani the evil space tyrant.
Next thing you'll be telling me is that all those Klingons at the Star Trek conventions think they are alien warriors in real life.
As I said it was a dumb thing to say, It was dumb because even though the odds of The Wis bieng full of shit were high the potential downside for him being serious in his suicidal thoughts should have been sufficient to have disuaded a rational person from pushing him to test the truth.
The key term here being rational.
I know it's popular to say "alchohol isn't an excuse" but it really is. Anyone with any real experience with alchohol or even a rudimentary understanding of brain chemistry knows that it really is an excuse for bad behavior.
Alchohol changes brain chemistry it litterally changes what kind of person you are. It lowers inhibitions (you know all those filters and controls that we normally apply to our behavior and actions) it clouds one's judgement so you do things like think "I'm ok to drive" when to any rational objective observer you are most certainly not in any condition to drive or think it's a good/funny idea to sic your alliance on some botter who threatened to kill himself.
Claiming to know the true nature of a person based on their behaviour while intoxicated is nonsense pop psychology. A persons true nature is made apparent when they are in full possession of their faculties not when their normal cognitive processes are degraded by external factors.
Alex has been playing a Villian in this game for years and this is the first and only incident I am aware of where he stepped over that line, if his true nature were as sociopathic as you claim it would show in a pattern of behavior.
The lack of such a pattern is a pretty damned clear indication to me that this incident was an abheration rather than a revealing of his true nature.
NO ONE is saying anything about ganking, most peoples problem has to stem from this douchebag coming on "stage" at a party and telling others to try and get someone to commit suicide. FACT
like someone else said if mittani killed the guy over and over and over and the guy killed himself i would be totally on the EVE players side, saying if you can't take the ganking you shouldn't be playing on a FFA PVP game. however when Mittani came out at the convention and told people this guys ingame name and said they might be able to get him to commit suicide ... thats what i have a problem with.
Thank you.
Yeah you wrong. You might not want to be but you are.
Guy 1 is MENTALLY UNSTABLE.
gUY 2'S JOB /DUTY IS NOT THE KEPPER OF GUY 1.
Guy 1 wants to do whatever in EVE , he gets caught / begs using im am gonna kill myself if you kill me.
Guy 2 .. too bad shut the f up, no special treatment.
Guy 1 no really i will
Guy 2 hey everyone kill this xxxxx whever you see him for trying to blackmail my ass into not killing him with threat of suicide.
.. yeah totally guy 2's fault .
Come down to earth. If this is the standard then even should remove all action able to upset other players from the game. I mean if you really wanted not to upset the person planning to kill themselves.
Guy 2 doesn't need to care and shouldn't , i mean if he should i should be able to walk up to your house and say let me take you tv or ill kill myself. Your wife? Your dog? I mean you wouldn't want me to kill myself, would you? In this case it is at least obvious that i am imbalanced, in This situation in EVE there is no way anyone could have know or should have know.
Don't kill my lvlv 100 orc in wow or ill kill myself. Get a grip, this is BULL.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Welcome to MMORPG.comThank you.
Now you are here, put on your tin foil hat and get posting random thoughts along with the rest of usKnowing that the ganked player (a.k.a. "some idiot" in your post) was suicidal, The Mittani encouraged other players to take actions that would encourage the player's actual, real-life suicide. This really has nothing to do with in-game events--no one, under any circumstances, should try to hasten another person's real-life death.
[mod edit]
The issue is that someone took a point, the guy telling the goon he had suicidal thoughts, that as you yourself say has nothing to do with playing a game, and rather than just ignore it and continue to play the game and hitting the other guys in game assets using Internet spaceships, called the guys in game name out whilst being broadcast live on a CCP public platform and told people if they wanted to get him to kill himself to hit him in game. You tell me what the point was?Yeah you wrong. You might not want to be but you are.
Guy 1 is MENTALLY UNSTABLE.
gUY 2'S JOB /DUTY IS NOT THE KEPPER OF GUY 1.
Guy 1 wants to do whatever in EVE , he gets caught / begs using im am gonna kill myself if you kill me.
Guy 2 .. too bad shut the f up, no special treatment.
Guy 1 no really i will
Guy 2 hey everyone kill this xxxxx whever you see him for trying to blackmail my ass into not killing him with threat of suicide.
.. yeah totally guy 2's fault .
Come down to earth. If this is the standard then even should remove all action able to upset other players from the game. I mean if you really wanted not to upset the person planning to kill themselves.
Guy 2 doesn't need to care and shouldn't , i mean if he should i should be able to walk up to your house and say let me take you tv or ill kill myself. Your wife? Your dog? I mean you wouldn't want me to kill myself, would you? In this case it is at least obvious that i am imbalanced, in This situation in EVE there is no way anyone could have know or should have know.
Don't kill my lvlv 100 orc in wow or ill kill myself. Get a grip, this is BULL.
Did you actually read my post?This is actually why people are saying that the game needs to be removed from this.
What's happening is that Alex Gianturco is reaping from the actions sewn by Alex Gianturco.
What is NOT happening is that Alex Gianturco is reaping from the actions sewn by The Mittani.
Somethat that, it seems, Mr. Gianturco has some difficulty establishing the difference in.