I see where the OP is coming from, and it's a fair point.
No, its not a fair point. If it was the only way to get into the beta weekends or was the only time you could buy the game then yea, he would have a point. But since neither of thoes are the case the post was pointless. Sure not everyone would take the risk without the hype. But I would have to guess a majority of us realise its a risk. I've been burned plenty in the past. Anet hasnt given me a reason not to trust them yet though so untill they do I will perosnally risk it. If they pull a Funcom or Mythic though....
Edit: And lets not act like Beta Weekends are actually beta tests. This hasnt been the case for a long time now. Its basically the new Demo if you can manage to get a key which usually isnt hard a couple weeks before launch.
I am utterly dumbfounded at what the hype has done to what would otherwise be a smart community. I will try to put things into a little perspective, and you can flame all you want afterwards, but please hear me out:
1) Pay to Beta test
In all honesty, how many times have most of us complained that once a game is released, it feels like you are paying to beta test it for them because of some irks or outright bugs we find in it... But in GW2 you are ACTUALLY paying in order to beta test it. It's not a PRIVILAGE, it's a service. And I don't know about you, but when I provide a service, I want to be paid, or otherwise compensated for it. But in this case, you are paying THEM in order to test their game out. Just pure ridiculousness...
2) Pay Full price BEFORE an NDA has been lifted
My word, who would do such a thing? Please... just think for a moment. Peer review is one of the best judges of an item, specially when there is no conflict of interest. News sites and some demo tests are NOT a good judgement of the final product. The websites that got access to the BETA want traffic, and are also going to attempt to showcase their own talents, either in writing or other aspects. This means they will very much romanticize what they experienced and even without realizing it will sugar coat the experience, which is clear conflict of interests. As for demos, these are the polished versions of a limited scope of the game. I can't tell you how many times I have enjoyed a demo much more than the actual full game. Lets review something: why would you hold something behind your back, and ask people to pay you in full before you give it to them? I will let you draw your own conclusion on that one (even if it does hurt some prides).
I was going to continue adding some more points, but instead of this becoming a warning, it would look like a rant. My sincere advice to my fellow players is to NOT purchase the game outright until the NDA is lifted and the beta crowds give you the real low-down on how things are. You will not loose out on anything since the beta chars get whiped, and you will enjoy your journey much better on launch day. Best case scenerio you will realize the game is not for you and would have saved some cash. Worst case scenario you loose out on some early gameplay, which would get deleted anyways.
This has been a public service announcement :-P
My word, just think for a minute how your telling people how to live thier lives, you havent helped anybody.
Look at all the energy you spent writing that wall of text, just to tell people they are dumb.
I am utterly dumbfounded at what the hype has done to what would otherwise be a smart community. I will try to put things into a little perspective, and you can flame all you want afterwards, but please hear me out:
1) Pay to Beta test
In all honesty, how many times have most of us complained that once a game is released, it feels like you are paying to beta test it for them because of some irks or outright bugs we find in it... But in GW2 you are ACTUALLY paying in order to beta test it. It's not a PRIVILAGE, it's a service. And I don't know about you, but when I provide a service, I want to be paid, or otherwise compensated for it. But in this case, you are paying THEM in order to test their game out. Just pure ridiculousness...
2) Pay Full price BEFORE an NDA has been lifted
My word, who would do such a thing? Please... just think for a moment. Peer review is one of the best judges of an item, specially when there is no conflict of interest. News sites and some demo tests are NOT a good judgement of the final product. The websites that got access to the BETA want traffic, and are also going to attempt to showcase their own talents, either in writing or other aspects. This means they will very much romanticize what they experienced and even without realizing it will sugar coat the experience, which is clear conflict of interests. As for demos, these are the polished versions of a limited scope of the game. I can't tell you how many times I have enjoyed a demo much more than the actual full game. Lets review something: why would you hold something behind your back, and ask people to pay you in full before you give it to them? I will let you draw your own conclusion on that one (even if it does hurt some prides).
I was going to continue adding some more points, but instead of this becoming a warning, it would look like a rant. My sincere advice to my fellow players is to NOT purchase the game outright until the NDA is lifted and the beta crowds give you the real low-down on how things are. You will not loose out on anything since the beta chars get whiped, and you will enjoy your journey much better on launch day. Best case scenerio you will realize the game is not for you and would have saved some cash. Worst case scenario you loose out on some early gameplay, which would get deleted anyways.
This has been a public service announcement :-P
i guess u must be a lonely dude always playing by yourself, reason some of us pre-purchase is because our guild is moving towards gw2 i.e. getting excited over all the hype and shit and yes some of them are in beta too, which helps us evaluate if it's suitable for the guild.
if u feel strongly then dont buy into the hype, time will tell if our gamble (those take pre-purchase) pays off or bites us in the arse.
This is not new, and it will not stop being used by developers. It´s win/win for everyone. ArenaNet will get more money to pay back investors and invest in further development of the game, and the paying customer gets too play the game before it´s out. It´s actually really good for the players because they can see if they like the game beforehand, if they dislike it they can cancel their pre-order and get a refund.
Nobody loses his or her money over this system. You can always refund if you dislike, and because you payed in advance you will also be able to play in advance.
And on the second note, ArenaNet has done this before with the first Guild Wars game. I am still screamish about the first time I got into that beta weekend. Ah the fun me and my friends had, no sleep, only junk food, and 102929 new characters because we wanted to see all the combinations.
What I can say with finality is, if $60 is the price tag of Guild Wars 2 it is going to blow away the competition in terms of value. It is incredibly polished, even in beta. There are tons of content. In my 6-8 hours of Queensdale, I went way too fast. I can easily see spending double the time while enjoying the sights, making sure to trade, gather, and craft, and soak in the magnificent, artistic beauty imbued everywhere in the game world.
Even if it's only 8 hours per zone, they've demoed 5 zones. Even if the entire rest of GW2 was nothing but vaporware, just that would be 40 hours of content. But we know that on top of it there's going to be 25-26 zones, 6 cities, dungeons, personal stories, minigames, WvW PVP and structured PVP.
And I'm one of those people who quite enjoys GW1. Just like people would buy Bioware games sight unseen until maybe DA2 or ME3 gave them pause, I'm willing to give ArenaNet the benefit of the doubt until they drop the ball. I was going to buy it anyway no question, so to me putting up money early to guarantee beta access is no risk at all.
But if other people aren't sure yet, that's totally fine. You should wait for player reviews. It's your money. If you've been burned by other MMOs, you're foolish not to wait.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
2 reasons why I pre-purchased 2 copies of the standard DE last night:
I have seen gameplay videos galore and not a single one has disappointed me. These are not the polished CGI videos used for advertising but videos of gameplay during the betas so far and gameplay from the different conventions over the last couple of years.
And the biggest reason: I played (and am still playing) GW1 for 5 1/2 years and have yet to feel ripped off by Anet. I'm not saying they are a perfect company, but I trust them. I trust them simply because over the years they have delivered on every promise they have made.
So, based on my research and my experience with the company, I am willing to dish out my cash to them without having played the game. In addition to getting guaranteed beta weekend access, I also get a 3 day head start on a game I was going to buy anyway. I think that's a pretty good deal.
If, in the future, Anet screws me over and doesn't deliver on their promises I will have learned my lesson and not give them any more up front money. I can afford to take the risk financially and the benefits outweigh the risks IMO.
So, thanks for the "warning", but I think I'll be ok.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Personally I think the real trap has yet to be seen, and that is going to be the cash shop 6 months after release. With the way the industry works now, and you all know exactly what I mean or have been living under a rock for the past 8 years. Nearly 99% of cash shops make games completely P2Win. Anybody who thinks this is not going to happen here is either a fool or in total denial about it. Greed rules the business world and lets face it, GW2 is big business.
It's not a trap if you go in willingly and prefer not to leave.
Says the crab when he willingly goes into the crab-trap to eat his fish. lol
If you are fine with what you are getting, more power to you. Some of us are a bit more cautious after being burned one too many times. Those are the ones I give the friendly advice.
It's $60 not your soul. Geez everyone that is cautious, or "shrewd" that is just fine, but this is nothing that is going to gobble up your kids or give you a deadly disease. It's a fricken game. I honestly don't understand all the negative hype concenrning paying early. I'm going to buy it, if the funds are used by NCsoft or Anet to help the game through commercials or further development I don't give a *****, they are getting my money. If NCSoft/Anet fall off the the face of the earth I'm out a whopping $60. Thats 4 months of WoW, Rift, or SWToR subscriptions.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I am not insulting the intelligence of my fellow players. You don't give a warning to an idiot since they wont understand you. You warn the wise, and they take heed. Those that are vested in the game for other reasons are free to do as they please.
I have made my point, and contrary to what some believe, it was not to completely avoid the game, but just to be more patient and see what is really going on.
If the game were completely finished and optimized, it would be released, not just in beta. This will be my conjecture, and it is the underlying worry that I honestly have: A-Net knows their product, and if they haven't released it yet, they are concerned there are things that lack sufficient polish to release to the public. Some of these things might even be game breaking. And notice I said MIGHT. What would be the logical next step if this were the case? Cash in. Hence my title of "It's a Trap."
So again, it was just meant as a friendly warning to something that I saw. Take it or leave it.
The majority of console games I pay for, I don't get to test first.
I only get to go on videos and reviews.
I'd say it's the same for GW2, seeing as it's a one-time fee game, but I actually did get to test it at PAX so I'm slightly outside the norm. Still, your logic fails a bit.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
$60 or $80 isn't that much to spend on a video game. I've bought bad video games in the past... it happens. I don't think GW2 will be bad, but if it is, oh well, lost a bit of money. Not the end of the world.
There's many a games that come out with not a lot of data about them, hell most console games maybe you get a small demo of 1 level before it comes out but has no where near the amount of video and data released on gw2.
How much research is out on the new madden every year, or what was out besides the mass effect 3 demo that was 10 mins long? I dont see much of a difference but if you do im glad to spend my 60 bucks to make the game better for me and you.
Dude...paying to beta test? Really? you think of it like that?
They ARE going to invite other people into the beta other than the people that pre purchase. Pre purchase garuntees access to such events, it is not the sole privelage
It's not a trap if you go in willingly and prefer not to leave.
Says the crab when he willingly goes into the crab-trap to eat his fish. lol
If you are fine with what you are getting, more power to you. Some of us are a bit more cautious after being burned one too many times. Those are the ones I give the friendly advice.
I've been burned by MMOs sure. Thats the risk we all take. SWTOR! I defended that to high heaven for months after release. Now, I dont know why. But again, a gamble you take. You can't take Yogscast, total biscuit, or some inept upset person's word for it(i.e. this forum) as to whether or not the game is great, or if YOU will like it. I am CHOOSING not to play diablo 3 even though many say it is great. I am CHOOSING not to get into TSW because its not my cup of tea. I am CHOOSING to pay for this game, before NDA is lifted, because I like what I see and i have faith. Arenanet is a standup company, unlike some...ahem blizzard. Locking and banning me from the forums when I said the game is getting stale. I guess they didnt like negative feedback about their product.
Comments
No, its not a fair point. If it was the only way to get into the beta weekends or was the only time you could buy the game then yea, he would have a point. But since neither of thoes are the case the post was pointless. Sure not everyone would take the risk without the hype. But I would have to guess a majority of us realise its a risk. I've been burned plenty in the past. Anet hasnt given me a reason not to trust them yet though so untill they do I will perosnally risk it. If they pull a Funcom or Mythic though....
Edit: And lets not act like Beta Weekends are actually beta tests. This hasnt been the case for a long time now. Its basically the new Demo if you can manage to get a key which usually isnt hard a couple weeks before launch.
My word, just think for a minute how your telling people how to live thier lives, you havent helped anybody.
Look at all the energy you spent writing that wall of text, just to tell people they are dumb.
Really?!
The following is all I need to know:
I've seen enough that I know I will be buying the game. (They are going to get my flat fee $60.)
Guaranteed beta access comes with the pre-purchase.
The game will be released eventually.
There is no "subcription" for neither this beta nor the game itself. (It's not like I will be paying extra for this "service.")
I have the money now.
I can always get a full refund should something, anything happen.
= I don't have a problem with buying it now, whether or not they have a release date.
Was going to buy the game anyway. Figure I might as well get in on the pre-purchase extras.
My theme song.
Wait for the NDA to be lifted, and the cash-shop to be finalized.
i guess u must be a lonely dude always playing by yourself, reason some of us pre-purchase is because our guild is moving towards gw2 i.e. getting excited over all the hype and shit and yes some of them are in beta too, which helps us evaluate if it's suitable for the guild.
if u feel strongly then dont buy into the hype, time will tell if our gamble (those take pre-purchase) pays off or bites us in the arse.
No..... lol? You're welcome to but I'm all set, thanks
This is not new, and it will not stop being used by developers. It´s win/win for everyone. ArenaNet will get more money to pay back investors and invest in further development of the game, and the paying customer gets too play the game before it´s out. It´s actually really good for the players because they can see if they like the game beforehand, if they dislike it they can cancel their pre-order and get a refund.
Nobody loses his or her money over this system. You can always refund if you dislike, and because you payed in advance you will also be able to play in advance.
And on the second note, ArenaNet has done this before with the first Guild Wars game. I am still screamish about the first time I got into that beta weekend. Ah the fun me and my friends had, no sleep, only junk food, and 102929 new characters because we wanted to see all the combinations.
And OP, it´s not mandatory for you to pre-order.
In principle I agree with the OP. One shouldn't ever believe anything a developer has to say.
However, in GW2's case... Here's a quote from Ravious at KTR. http://www.killtenrats.com/2012/02/20/gw2-closed-beta-bookends-and-quick-impressions/
What I can say with finality is, if $60 is the price tag of Guild Wars 2 it is going to blow away the competition in terms of value. It is incredibly polished, even in beta. There are tons of content. In my 6-8 hours of Queensdale, I went way too fast. I can easily see spending double the time while enjoying the sights, making sure to trade, gather, and craft, and soak in the magnificent, artistic beauty imbued everywhere in the game world.
Even if it's only 8 hours per zone, they've demoed 5 zones. Even if the entire rest of GW2 was nothing but vaporware, just that would be 40 hours of content. But we know that on top of it there's going to be 25-26 zones, 6 cities, dungeons, personal stories, minigames, WvW PVP and structured PVP.
And I'm one of those people who quite enjoys GW1. Just like people would buy Bioware games sight unseen until maybe DA2 or ME3 gave them pause, I'm willing to give ArenaNet the benefit of the doubt until they drop the ball. I was going to buy it anyway no question, so to me putting up money early to guarantee beta access is no risk at all.
But if other people aren't sure yet, that's totally fine. You should wait for player reviews. It's your money. If you've been burned by other MMOs, you're foolish not to wait.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
2 reasons why I pre-purchased 2 copies of the standard DE last night:
I have seen gameplay videos galore and not a single one has disappointed me. These are not the polished CGI videos used for advertising but videos of gameplay during the betas so far and gameplay from the different conventions over the last couple of years.
And the biggest reason: I played (and am still playing) GW1 for 5 1/2 years and have yet to feel ripped off by Anet. I'm not saying they are a perfect company, but I trust them. I trust them simply because over the years they have delivered on every promise they have made.
So, based on my research and my experience with the company, I am willing to dish out my cash to them without having played the game. In addition to getting guaranteed beta weekend access, I also get a 3 day head start on a game I was going to buy anyway. I think that's a pretty good deal.
If, in the future, Anet screws me over and doesn't deliver on their promises I will have learned my lesson and not give them any more up front money. I can afford to take the risk financially and the benefits outweigh the risks IMO.
So, thanks for the "warning", but I think I'll be ok.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
Personally I think the real trap has yet to be seen, and that is going to be the cash shop 6 months after release. With the way the industry works now, and you all know exactly what I mean or have been living under a rock for the past 8 years. Nearly 99% of cash shops make games completely P2Win. Anybody who thinks this is not going to happen here is either a fool or in total denial about it. Greed rules the business world and lets face it, GW2 is big business.
It's $60 not your soul. Geez everyone that is cautious, or "shrewd" that is just fine, but this is nothing that is going to gobble up your kids or give you a deadly disease. It's a fricken game. I honestly don't understand all the negative hype concenrning paying early. I'm going to buy it, if the funds are used by NCsoft or Anet to help the game through commercials or further development I don't give a *****, they are getting my money. If NCSoft/Anet fall off the the face of the earth I'm out a whopping $60. Thats 4 months of WoW, Rift, or SWToR subscriptions.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
After reading these responses I think you all have convinced me to not pre-order.
You may ask why?
Not a one of you had a good reason to order the game yet the OP have valid points.
I am not insulting the intelligence of my fellow players. You don't give a warning to an idiot since they wont understand you. You warn the wise, and they take heed. Those that are vested in the game for other reasons are free to do as they please.
I have made my point, and contrary to what some believe, it was not to completely avoid the game, but just to be more patient and see what is really going on.
If the game were completely finished and optimized, it would be released, not just in beta. This will be my conjecture, and it is the underlying worry that I honestly have: A-Net knows their product, and if they haven't released it yet, they are concerned there are things that lack sufficient polish to release to the public. Some of these things might even be game breaking. And notice I said MIGHT. What would be the logical next step if this were the case? Cash in. Hence my title of "It's a Trap."
So again, it was just meant as a friendly warning to something that I saw. Take it or leave it.
There were many good reasons offered. It's no one's fault that that they aren't good enough for you.
Why would you need s forum full of strangers to convince you to buy a video game? Are you incapable of making your own decisions?
It's called selective perception.
I think you never planned to pre-order.
The majority of console games I pay for, I don't get to test first.
I only get to go on videos and reviews.
I'd say it's the same for GW2, seeing as it's a one-time fee game, but I actually did get to test it at PAX so I'm slightly outside the norm. Still, your logic fails a bit.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I'm pretty sure the fact that I was going to get the game anyway is a good reason.
My theme song.
$60 or $80 isn't that much to spend on a video game. I've bought bad video games in the past... it happens. I don't think GW2 will be bad, but if it is, oh well, lost a bit of money. Not the end of the world.
There's many a games that come out with not a lot of data about them, hell most console games maybe you get a small demo of 1 level before it comes out but has no where near the amount of video and data released on gw2.
How much research is out on the new madden every year, or what was out besides the mass effect 3 demo that was 10 mins long? I dont see much of a difference but if you do im glad to spend my 60 bucks to make the game better for me and you.
Dude...paying to beta test? Really? you think of it like that?
They ARE going to invite other people into the beta other than the people that pre purchase. Pre purchase garuntees access to such events, it is not the sole privelage
The only trap here, is you wasting 5 minutes of my life. 5 minutes I could have wasted on something else.
I've been burned by MMOs sure. Thats the risk we all take. SWTOR! I defended that to high heaven for months after release. Now, I dont know why. But again, a gamble you take. You can't take Yogscast, total biscuit, or some inept upset person's word for it(i.e. this forum) as to whether or not the game is great, or if YOU will like it. I am CHOOSING not to play diablo 3 even though many say it is great. I am CHOOSING not to get into TSW because its not my cup of tea. I am CHOOSING to pay for this game, before NDA is lifted, because I like what I see and i have faith. Arenanet is a standup company, unlike some...ahem blizzard. Locking and banning me from the forums when I said the game is getting stale. I guess they didnt like negative feedback about their product.